Febo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 29, 2018, 05:14:02 PM |
|
With regard to Tari, I understand the details of this project have still to be finalized and speculation on it is premature. That said, what I've read so far is that Tari is to 'built on top fo Monero' which has been taken to mean that Tari will be merged mined alongside Monero. In other words, that Tari will benefit from the security that the Monero network offers (should Monero miners decide to implement it).
Question: does Tari need permission from the Monero community to do this? If Tari wasn't being led by FP would this be an issue for the Monero community? Is there any cost to Monero from merge mining Tari? Is there any benefit to Monero from merge mining Tari?
Why, in other words, should the Monero community agree to this (assuming they have a say in the matter)? I don't have a position on it, just wondering if there are opposing perspectives on the issue.
That would be same as if Poloniex would need a permission of someone to list Monero. Or you would need someone's permission to use Monero or cake wallet would need permission of someone to make their wallet. Those that will merge mine will I guess get tari. that will be their reason why they do it. Benefit of monero blockchain is that monero blockchain will get more used. There will be more transactions and blocks more full and bigger and that will make transactions cheaper. More transactions or Monero being more used will of course increase blockchain. Good reply. But isn't there a difference between the Monero network being used (as in Tari) and Monero (the currency) being used?
Why and how. Monero transaction only works one way and is same for all. All who use it need to follow protocol. If you don't then your transaction will not be validated.
|
|
|
|
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Whimsical Pants
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 29, 2018, 07:10:28 PM |
|
I can;t help but notice the same pattern we have seen for SO long in the price action for Monero... A good flurry of buying, or even a big single purchase at market, and then a giant dump back to the floor from where we rose. The last 24 hours on the 4 hour candle illustrates this perfectly. ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fscreenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com%2Fimages%2F023a2ae6-db34-4b01-bc4b-4ef3c7b647ab.png&t=665&c=4jhHY1_x_CyQVQ)
|
|
|
|
smooth (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 29, 2018, 08:27:23 PM |
|
In his recent report (can be found on reddit) Dr. Noether talks about the implementation of bulletproofs and how this might present a need for Monero to make changes to it's fee structure so the chain is not abused. Which Dr. Noether? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Anyway, the situation with BP is a bit different: BP are writing relatively little data, but imposing a (relatively) high cost on all nodes to verify the transactions. It is a bit like smart contracts and gas, but of course a narrower specific case. Writing a lot of data to the chain (for example because you want to store your family photos for all time and are willing to pay a one-time fee for the privilege) is another side of the issue, and one that very few blockchains deal with all that well. On the price speculation side, interesting moves today with cryptos in line with safe haven assets after the Italian melt down and associated Euro risk repricing. For the most part of the past couple of years cryptos have been behaving as a risk asset, not a safe haven.
|
|
|
|
DaveyJones
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 06:22:34 AM |
|
Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?
The community
|
|
|
|
Globb0
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2053
Free spirit
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 10:40:52 AM |
|
We voted not to include you in the vote
|
|
|
|
tokeweed
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4046
Merit: 1439
Life, Love and Laughter...
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 11:04:23 AM |
|
Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?
The community Why I wasn't consulted? How do you get to be a member of "the community"? Where the vote was hosted? It depends on how much coins your wallet holds. If it isn't high enough, you don't get to be invited in the lodge and be taught the secret hand shake by the Grand Pony himself. I too wasn't able to get in the lodge, but I had enough to be invited in the front yard and was taught the secret fist bump.
|
|
|
|
R |
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄▄ ████████████████ ▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀█████ ████████▌███▐████ ▄▄▄▄█████▄▄▄█████ ████████████████ ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▀▀ | LLBIT | | | 4,000+ GAMES███████████████████ ██████████▀▄▀▀▀████ ████████▀▄▀██░░░███ ██████▀▄███▄▀█▄▄▄██ ███▀▀▀▀▀▀█▀▀▀▀▀▀███ ██░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░██ ██▄░░░░░░░█░░░░░▄██ ███▄░░░░▄█▄▄▄▄▄████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ | █████████ ▀████████ ░░▀██████ ░░░░▀████ ░░░░░░███ ▄░░░░░███ ▀█▄▄▄████ ░░▀▀█████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ | █████████ ░░░▀▀████ ██▄▄▀░███ █░░█▄░░██ ░████▀▀██ █░░█▀░░██ ██▀▀▄░███ ░░░▄▄████ ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ |
| | | ██░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░░██ ▀█▄░▄▄░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄░▄█▀ ▄▄███░░░░░░░░░░░░░░███▄▄ ▀░▀▄▀▄░░░░░▄▄░░░░░▄▀▄▀░▀ ▄▄▄▄▄▀▀▄▄▀▀▄▄▄▄▄ █░▄▄▄██████▄▄▄░█ █░▀▀████████▀▀░█ █░█▀▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██░█ █░█▀████████░█ █░█░██████░█ ▀▄▀▄███▀▄▀ ▄▀▄▀▄▄▄▄▀▄▀▄ ██▀░░░░░░░░▀██ | | | | | | | . ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ ░▀▄░▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄░▄▀ ███▀▄▀█████████████████▀▄▀ █████▀▄░▄▄▄▄▄███░▄▄▄▄▄▄▀ ███████▀▄▀██████░█▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ █████████▀▄▄░███▄▄▄▄▄▄░▄▀ ████████████░███████▀▄▀ ████████████░██▀▄▄▄▄▀ ████████████░▀▄▀ ████████████▄▀ ███████████▀ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▄ ▄███▀▄▄███████▄▄▀███▄ ▄██▀▄█▀▀▀█████▀▀▀█▄▀██▄ ▄██▀▄██████▀████░███▄▀██▄ ███░█████████▀██░████░███ ███░████░█▄████▀░████░███ ███░████░███▄████████░███ ▀██▄▀███░█████▄█████▀▄██▀ ▀██▄▀█▄▄▄██████▄██▀▄██▀ ▀███▄▀▀███████▀▀▄███▀ ▀████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████▀ ▀▀███████▀▀ | | OFFICIAL PARTNERSHIP FAZE CLAN SSC NAPOLI | | |
|
|
|
DaveyJones
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 11:44:59 AM |
|
We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so? I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote. Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process? The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR ) I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays. There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now )
|
|
|
|
Febo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 12:33:24 PM |
|
Who are the genius who decided to fork the POW algo?
The community Why I wasn't consulted? How do you get to be a member of "the community"? Where the vote was hosted? There was a lot of talks about mining in last years. Github, reddit this forum. When you have ideas you should just tell them. Github is main place for you. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone?
Be the developer. Be active on any questions that interest you and reply with your better suggestion. That is only way. No one will hear you if you will not say.
|
|
|
|
garytheasshole
Full Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif) ![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 406
Merit: 105
Chosŏn Minjujuŭi Inmin Konghwaguk
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 12:35:14 PM |
|
We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so? I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote. Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process? The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR ) I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays. There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now ) Thank you for the serious answer. Due to inertie effect, whatever is merged in the Github repo of a protocol manage to gather consensus. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone? Who are the devs who were pro fork and the one who were against? Were there any demonstration of the dangerousness of the old POW or of the safety of a change? Can we except other important decisions to be taken the same way in the future? https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/blob/master/whitepaper/whitepaper_annotated.pdfScroll down to 2.2 The Proof-of-Work function And yes, hopefully there will be default decisions like this in the future, it shouldn't even be up for debate if we should embrace asics or not, I see this as a patch rather than a game changer.
|
|
|
|
DaveyJones
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 05:33:59 PM |
|
We voted not to include you in the vote
Where have you voted? Who are the people who voted? What are the criteria to be able to do so? I am serious here. When the fixed supply have been lifted, there were a debate and a vote. Did the same process happen regarding this very important decision? Is there any kind of documentation of this process? The whole thing is called consensus, everyone who doesn't or didnt agree now has XMO/XMC/XM-C, and as the whole eco-system decided that the fork will get consensus ( pools, exchanges all call the Non-Asic Chain XMR ) I guess the poll was a once in a lifetime thing for monero as the community was still small and there also were no other channels like there is nowadays. There were debates all over reddit for weeks about it ( guess its reddit because there is the biggest part of the community now ) Thank you for the serious answer. Due to inertie effect, whatever is merged in the Github repo of a protocol manage to gather consensus. So basically it's the monero devs who decided that Bitmain was evil and therefore that Monero should undergo a change of its security backbone? Who are the devs who were pro fork and the one who were against? Were there any demonstration of the dangerousness of the old POW or of the safety of a change? Can we except other important decisions to be taken the same way in the future? Thats not quite how it works, devs code thats right, but there is always back and forth with the community through different channels and plenty of people talking to each other, so if you wanted you could join this discussions too, in the github issues for example. In case of the PoW Fork it also was a whole different scenario if you read the monero whitepaper - the whitepaper states "that monero should have an egalitarian proof of work" so it's kinda the social contract that should be "obeyed". So CPU and GPU's are egalitarian as everyone who owns a computer has one, meanwhile not everyone owns ASIC's and they also have rather small batches that is far from commodisation and especially players like Bitmain showed in the past that they mine their tech first and dominate PoWs before giving it to the public... tl;dr PoW change was an obvious/essential move as "egalitarian" is part of the social contract
|
|
|
|
Febo
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2730
Merit: 1288
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 08:48:52 PM |
|
Overall the change in mining algorithm was a really good call. I actually remember most talks before was about bot mining. Now is obvious why. Asic miners owners were pushing that agenda that bot miners are controlling most of hash power. I pretty much believed them.
|
|
|
|
infofront
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2646
Merit: 2791
Shitcoin Minimalist
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 30, 2018, 11:43:28 PM |
|
I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.
If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
|
|
|
|
guesswho1234
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 07:01:06 AM |
|
anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?
|
|
|
|
florida.haunted
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 07:26:22 AM |
|
I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.
If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible?
|
|
|
|
florida.haunted
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 07:32:49 AM |
|
anyone of you guys think we hit the bottom regarding btc value of xmr?
If one answers why altcoins (I've checked XMR,ZEC,Dash) fall against BTC last days, while BTC itself in flat or Bart's head?
|
|
|
|
adaseb
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3836
Merit: 1723
Up to 300% + 200 FS deposit bonuses
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 07:39:10 AM |
|
I went long on XMR because I think that the weekly supppet which was tested multiples times will end up holding. The suppprt is in the $150 area or so. This is basically the exact same setup as Litecoin but in the $110 range.
I believe that we will at least retest the descending wedge and I will take partial profits there and hold incase it ends up breaking when FOMO is activated and it ends up going to like $500 later in the year.
|
|
|
|
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Whimsical Pants
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 12:58:18 PM |
|
I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.
If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
But Zooko has looked into Jihan's heart and seen the light and love! https://forum.z.cash/t/so-i-had-a-videochat-with-jihan-wu/29379I said that a large fraction — maybe 60% or so — of the XMR hashrate had disappeared from XMR and switched to XMO, and asked if that was Bitmain’s mining operation. He immediately replied “No, it was not us. We released the Monero miner right after the samples.”
For what it is worth, I didn’t get the feeling that he was lying about this. I felt like he was telling the truth. I asked him again if they had been doing any Monero mining with ASICs, because it really seemed like someone must have been, and he said something like that he saw the theory that there was a large-scale stealth ASIC miner, and that he hadn’t had time to look into it to tell if it was real or just a hypothesis, but that in any case it wasn’t them. Again, he sounded sincere to me.
|
|
|
|
cAPSLOCK
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3766
Merit: 5146
Whimsical Pants
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 01:04:13 PM |
|
I'm not a big fan of forking away from ASICs, but I think it's the only option while Bitmain has a monopoly.
If Jihan Wu hadn't proven himself to be a bad actor, things might be different.
"egalitarian" is a fundamental philosophical principal. Monero must be ASIC-resistant forever. I have to ask devs - whether it is possible to include timestamp dependencies directly into PoW algorithm? Or in general, could PoW entangle some bits from the outer world, that ASIC to stay impossible without regular forks (typically twice a year) to make ASIC impossible? Egalitarian and ASICs are not diametrically opposed forever. Once ASICs become commoditized like GPUs there would be much less need to defend against the centralization ASICs can currently cause. A big player like Samsung, or others would be useful here. Of course theat could also mean changint eh hash to something more "standard".
|
|
|
|
sergey_vass
Member
![*](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/star.gif)
Offline
Activity: 308
Merit: 10
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 01:34:44 PM |
|
I think monero will have a better run this year than last year and i hope my investment on it will be worthy for my money. I believe in monero because of its usage and popularity and i speculate that it will reach 500$ this year.
|
|
|
|
Globb0
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2053
Free spirit
|
![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
May 31, 2018, 02:35:32 PM |
|
So what are people implying here?
That's ASIC owners were also the coin pumpers and manipulators?
|
|
|
|
|