Unveiling the truth over the major Monero scam

[toknormal]

most probably half of the stash is in the hands of Evan Inc.

1-2.8%

How can this be, if he got all the stash at the premine ?

He didn't. I don't know where you heard that.

A simple compound-interest calculation puts it close to 50%.  Start with 100% of the stash when there were 2 million coins (the premine).  Then apply the 45% interest on the mining and re-capitalize it until you reach 7 million coins or so.

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[dinofelis]

How can this be, if he got all the stash at the premine ?

He didn't. I don't know where you heard that.

Then who got the 2 million DASH mined with the buggy code in 48 hours ?

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification


As to "many people were mining at that moment" is doubtful:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4596809#msg4596809

[cryptohunter]

The Monero XMR Scam Uncovered

Monero is being pushed very hard everywhere in this forum. XMR supporters are radically aggressive appearing in each and every single thread, flooding the discussions, and FUDing all the coins that appear on their way. The crypto community is already dead tired of the Monero shill accounts unprecedented activity.

proof

proof

proof

I'm not saying that promoting your coin is illegal activity by itself. After all, the altcoin market is 99.9% about shouting louder than everyone else. PR usually helps get it going until it suddenly burns itself out (like with Doge). However, I came across a number of stinky facts that may prove that Monero is a completely artificial bubble.


How it looks like

If you've been reading the forum thoroughly for the last months, you might have noticed a couple of things about XMR.

You might have an impression that there are a lot of XMR supporters.
You might have an impression that the trade volume is very high.
You might have an impression that the developers are active.

You might also have an impression that something is very weird about this raw newborn coin.

Most likely because every single thing you see about XMR looks artificial.


The Hypotheses

H1. Monero's posting activity is artificial
H2. Monero's trades volumes are artificial
H3. Monero's developers are not capable of developing the coin

If all of the three hypotheses hold, then I'd say that Monero is scam and/or bubble. However, let the research be fair.


H1. Monero's posting activity is artificial

Recently, I stumbled upon a thread where Spoetnik points to a WTB hero member account thread started by Come-from-Above.

Here's the thread by Come-from-Above where he claims that he is paying 5-10 BTC for Sr. Member and Hero Member accounts. And apparently he needs a substantial number of such accounts.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=728902.0

Think about it for a moment. Why one need to buy old accounts? Hero Members make greater sense of community approval then the Newbies. If someone so respected is claiming something, plenty of users are likely to believe him. And of course,

these accs are NOT used for bad causes, just my opinions and forum presences Smiley

Of course, because you're buying Hero Members to post on flood threads about TV shows, right?
Nope. You are not.


1.1. Who is the beneficiary of the bought accounts?

Let's have a look at Come-from-Above's posting activity. There is a number of the things that might point us to Monero.

proof, mirror

Other evidence:
proof, mirror
proof, mirror (please, check out the mirror link and notice that the original post has been changed to "Monero TO THE STARS". Is someone competing with Doge's "to the moon?")
proof, mirror (how sweet!)
proof, mirror
proof, mirror

He keeps on buying large Monero sizes even when the price is stagnant. Come-from-Above has even started a new thread:

proof, mirror

1.2. How much is the fish? A weird fact

Come-from-Above has donated 5000 XMR for the XMR GUI wallet.

proof, mirror

Based on XMR and BTC prices on July 19,
5000 XMR = 5000 * 0.00455 = 22.75 BTC
5000 XMR = 22.75 * 627 = $14,624

Can you even imagine somebody wanting the GUI wallet so badly that he donates $14,000? For an already available totally free software? Which runs on .NET and cannot be used without an ugly extension? While the market price of such a development would be way beyond $1,000, more like 1 BTC?

I'm not even sure which of the two explanations is worse. Try answering yourself:
Case 1: a whale donating $14k to a XMR wallet developer and buying hero accounts
Case 2: a shill account pretending to have donated $14k and buying hero accounts

As a side note, the GUI wallet developer Jojatekok has quite an interesting activity history. He's commenting only on XMR thread and is mainly supporting his wallet only. Doesn't he look more like a maintainer of GUI thread to help conceal that all GUI wallets are being developed by the core team with no 3rd party developers around the coin? I do not want to seem too obsessed with the conspiracy theories, but those things just don't add up.


1.3. Compromised accs

This section is in progress

Suspect 1

Searching for compromised accounts requires a lot of time and effort but there is clear evidence already. Consider this user: Joshuar. Once he used to hate XMR:

proof, mirror

Another evidence:
proof, mirror

Then suddenly he's in the WTB accs thread:

proof, mirror

And then he's all for Monero:

proof, mirror

proof, mirror

Suspect 2

When I first saw saddambitcoin on forum, I thought he's goddamn hero member so he should be trustworthy. Apparently, he isn't.

Check out his posts in 2013. They are all so lame you would immediately recognize the account being maintained for sale.

Then suddenly, after 4 months of being absent (since December 2013 by the way) he re-appears with the different writing style and all for Monero:

Coincidence?


Other suspects

There has been a remarkable "coming-out" that claims that certain XMR accounts were run by the bot maintainers. The person claims that such users as surfer43, smooth, mickey_miner, and novag were used by the ghost writers.

proof, mirror

However, this might well be FUD.


If you happen to know any other XMR troll or sold account, share it with the community.


1.4 An interesting observation

If you were reading the recent thread where XMR trolls are accusing Bytecoin/CryptoNote, you might agree with the post below. Monero bots somehow manage to turn any discussion into the XMR PR machine:

proof

Implications

That being said, Monero has a number of shady supporters including purchased hero accounts and shill writers. Next time you see a hero member, a senior member, or even a junior member that is posting for Monero, keep in mind that the account may actually be bought or maintained by an outsourced pr manager.

Hypothesis 1 is accepted. Monero's posting activity is likely to be largely artificial.

H2. Monero's trade volumes are artificial

Fact one — large daily emission
Monero is emitted at the rate of roughly 22,000 XMR/day at the moment. At the time of writing this is roughly 78 BTC or $40,000.

Take a look at the XMR emission chart (depicted as "Bitmonero"). The emission rate is much higher than Bitcoin's or pretty much any other PoW altcoin.

proof, mirror

Fact two — botnets
Monero is largely botnet mined and that has been confirmed on a number of occasions (even by the XMR devs themselves):

1. A 4 MHash/sec botnet confirmed (you may wish to read several pages starting with the post below, as there are some speculations on botnet mining economy):

proof, mirror

2. Two other botnet operators have been confirmed. How many botnets do those operators have? What is their hash rate? Nobody knows.

proof, mirror

3. What's more, there is an infamous XMR silent miner issue (used as a botnet software that runs on the vulnerable PCs):
XMR silent miner is being actively sold for $10

4. Monero Stealth miner affecting PCs already in June 2014 (mirror)

5. Here's a link to the virus base with this trojan (link from the thread above): https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e2e6b6938879142c4e35542b5fe8d3eeec7bf9e682f915213fda009097c3878e/analysis/1401909211/

6. Another report on the issue on Reddit. Check this comment.


Fact three — whale support
rpietila is currently a Monero whale. Being a bitcoin millionaire he's capable of buying out large stakes of XMR that are dumped on the market. I'm not going to mirror those links, as everyone knows that rpietila is a whale and supports XMR. E.g.: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702140


Fact four — natural trend is declining
During the last 4 months that have passed since Monero launch, the price has never broken the peak. It simply fails to grow in spite of all the PR hype and fake forum activity. Of course, there are periods of growth, but have a look at the historic chart:

Below the chart you may see the trade volumes. When XMR is being traded as usual at 100 BTC volume (standard XMR market behavior), the price gradually declines. The explanation for that is fairly simple (go back to facts #1 and #2). The botnet owners are slowly dumping their coins and drive XMR market down.

Secondly, notice that upward trend coincides with the significant spikes in volume (up to 300 BTC and more). Recheck it with #1 and #3. As the natural demand can in no way match the botnet supply, someone has to step in from time to time to help get it going further. This is most likely the whale buying large XMR sizes out. Alternatively, the XMR trade volume spikes may also be someone on the core team trying to sustain the price.

 
Implications

That being said, XMR is likely to be mined mostly by the botnets at the rate that is not justified by the demand. Botnet owners dump the coin as it is not showing any stable growth. That's it folks, the 78 BTC of daily trades come simply from the daily emission rate being pushed to the market. No surprise, why the price is generally going down.

Why is that so? CryptoNote has created new ways for the botnet owners to profit. Monero was largely botnet mined from the inception, so the main stakeholders are basically botnet operators. How do you make sure your profits are secure? You need someone buying out those daily volumes. There are two simple ways to ensure that:

1. Artificial PR/hype through purchased hero accounts.
2. Secure yourself a whale.

This has serious implications and may actually link us back to H1 on fake marketing/PR hype. Botnet owners are securing their profits by purchasing accounts and hiring shills. However, everything they do is for just one particular purpose: profit from their botnet mined coin. They make you feel that XMR is largely supported so that you give your money to them.

It's hard to say whether XMR core team is involved. Of course, they would deny any potential connection. However, I wonder why they're not very interested with botnets and fake accounts and pretend that nothing weird is going on.

Another point is that I'm not sure why such a prominent investor and cryptocurrency activist as rpietila supports the coin with such serious issues. I assume that he was somehow tricked into believing that XMR has the future. It might also be the case that core developers are not seeing the whole picture themselces and honestly believe that Monero is actually supported by a large number of people who are willing to buy more and more Monero. However, the reality is that all these people are dead wrong. Monero is being dominated by botnet owners; everything they do with the black PR techniques is to fuel its scam growth. My last thought might be a bit brave, but could rpietila's money be the actual target of this scam scheme?

Don't worry, XMR will be deep mined in half a year. When the emission declines to 20 BTC per day, the botnet interest will disappear naturally. After they choose another victim, the Monero's black PR hype will disappear and the coin will fall down.

If you're not convinced, you may continue giving your USD to botnet owners in exchange of worthless XMR.

Hypothesis 2 is accepted. Monero's trades are artificial.

H3. Monero's developers are not capable of developing the coin

The XMR team in their missives report a lot of work being done. However, we haven't seen any meaningful update for the last several months. Of course, the work on GUI wallet is in progress, buy GUI is not related to the underlying protocol, which XMR copied form Bytecoin and apparently cannot maintain any further.


Evidence 1 — bullshit Monero missives

Have a glance at the compilation of XMR missives. How many of them are meaningful? The problem is that XMR devs are good at creating the illusion of development while not touching any underlying module (unlike Bytecoin which e.g. implemented multisigs and reworked so many code lines in a month that GitHub cannot even show the diff).

• Jun 2nd - nothing special
• Jun 10th - determenistic wallet is a nice usability improvement to add but it has nothing to do with the protocol
• Jun 18th - nothing special
• Jun 27th - transaction splitting is somewhat close to the hardcore work
• July 6th — nothing at all
• July 20th — nothing special
• July 23rd — nothing special
• August 3rd — nothing special
• August 10th — nothing special
• August 16th — nothing special

The truth is, among all the well-promoted XMR "development" activities, they've only managed so far to release transaction splitting and deterministic wallet. Everything else you see is either an irrelevant micro change or "a work in progress", which has never been released. It's easy to make an illusion of hardwork development going on, but the fact is XMR developers are not delivering.

Take i2p integration as an example:

• Long promoted (mirror)
  
• Never released
• i2p switches to Anoncoin

The original blog post about "XMR partnership with i2p" has even been removed from the i2p project's blog. It is quoted in fluffypony's post, but cannot be found on the i2p website: fluffypony bragging (mirror), the blog post has been deleted

This situation is the best evidence. XMR devs are incompetent. Their "partnership" with i2p was yet another hype.


Evidence 2 - bugs

XMR devs roll out an undergraduate level C++ bug that might end up with users' money being lost:

proof, mirror
proof, mirror

Evidence 3 - copy&paste

XMR devs used to copy&paste code from other repositories (mostly, Bytecoin & Boolberry) without attribution.
Here is a pastebin of the Reddit post deleted from XMR subreddit.

   
    Monero XMR devs are copycats
    
    Bytecoin GitHub commit (5/15/2014): https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/commit/baaa3484271e11398790bbf01ee4d7b19c68e3bb#diff-74021cb60bde0670646eb96a91e4443cR707
    
    Monero GitHub commit (5/25/2014):https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/commit/3a3a8176782a4fa75b0607fba0393c9d4a1746be#diff-74021cb60bde0670646eb96a91e4443cR707
    
    
    After that Monero guys made a huuuuge PR company "Look what we have done to technology! We've fixed the bug while BCN devs haven't!".
    Congrats! You guys are so good at copy and paste! And you are super-pro at stealing ideas and passing them off as your own (from the very beginning of BitMonero, lol)
    
    
    I just want all MRO fans/investors to know about it.

XMR copies the code from BCN, but trolls to death anyone who does the same to their code. One particular case is out of all proportions. Here XMR devs blame XDN devs for breaking the copyright. However, it turns out that the code in question was originally developed by BCN and taken by XMR without attribution.

proof, mirror

Evidence 4 — unable to even launch Monero

You may not know it kids, but Monero was originally launched as Bitmonero on April 18th by thankful_for_today: the original thread (mirror).

What happened next is a bit of a mystery as thankful_for_today was absent for a couple of days only to find out that Bitmonero was taken over by the "community" and renamed to Monero. This implies that current XMR devs were even unable to launch their coin, which forced them to hijack the website and the github. They have just decided to exclude thankful_for_today from the team and that is how Monero was born.

That's it. The XMR core team knows the CryptoNote protocol that bad they couldn't even launch Bytecoin's fork themselves.


Evidence 5 - external opinions

All of this might well be the reason why the observers believe that XMR devs are incompetent

Help us get more unbiased opinions on XMR devs' capabilities


Implications

The XMR devs are not capable of maintaining their coin as they simply do not grasp CryptoNote tech in full. Bytecoin developers are the ones who created it and keep contributing. Having such an enemy is very scary if you cannot develop the protocol yourself. And that is why XMR bagholders are so cruel to both Bytecoin and CryptoNote. They don't need such an enemy, they aim to discredit it. No matter what it takes.

If we go back to H1 & H2, we can conclude that everything you see about Monero is fake. The Monero developers are not able to maintain and update the coin they've hijacked from thankful_for_today. In the meantime, botnet owners secure their profits by promoting XMR through purchased accounts, black PR, and fake trades. They continue to lure you into investing into their botnet mined currency so that they can profit.

There is no way to tell whether XMR developers are related to the botnet owners, but the reality is that each time you invest your money into XMR you are giving it away to the botnet owners.

Hypothesis 3 is accepted. Monero devs are not capable of Monero development (at least as of now).


Conclusions & TL-DR

1. Monero is largely botnet mined.
2. The trade volume on the exchanges is artificial and is mostly created by the botnet owners that are constantly selling the coin to those who has fell into their fake PR hype. Occasionally the exchange rate is saved by the XMR whale. Fundamentally, XMR is doomed to have a negative trend.
3. The PR activity on this forum is fake. The Monero community is much smaller than XMR shills pretend it to be. There are a lot of purchased hero and senior member accounts and relentless black PR activities. Everything is aimed at making you part with your money to supporting botnet operators by investing in XMR.
4. XMR devs cannot make any significant updates/improvements to the CryptoNote protocol and are doomed to stick to PR hype only while helping the botnets profit.

Based on the evidence above you are free to make your own conclusions.

If you manage to read the whole post, you will understand that XMR is a scam coin that you should avoid. There are no fundamentals for it to grow and develop and we're going to see XMR value go down to zero in the next half a year. Hopefully, afterwards this forum will finally have a break from their shills.

One thing i want to know is how come it says come from above but when i click the link the user is showing as from above only? same with all the quote? has the user account name been altered now?

[iCEBREAKER]

most probably half of the stash is in the hands of Evan Inc.

1-2.8%

How can this be, if he got all the stash at the premine ?

He didn't. I don't know where you heard that.

A simple compound-interest calculation puts it close to 50%.  Start with 100% of the stash when there were 2 million coins (the premine).  Then apply the 45% interest on the mining and re-capitalize it until you reach 7 million coins or so.

The Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

The Dash scam is a tax on people who are bad at math *and* don't understand the role cryptography plays in crypto-currency.   

[Zer0Sum]

most probably half of the stash is in the hands of Evan Inc.

1-2.8%

How can this be, if he got all the stash at the premine ?

He didn't. I don't know where you heard that.

A simple compound-interest calculation puts it close to 50%.  Start with 100% of the stash when there were 2 million coins (the premine).  Then apply the 45% interest on the mining and re-capitalize it until you reach 7 million coins or so.

The Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

The Dash scam is a tax on people who are bad at math *and* don't understand the role cryptography plays in crypto-currency.  

In the last week 2 people with advanced degrees (dentist and an MBA)...
Asked me about Bitcoin... then completely zoned out about 10 seconds into the discussion.

About 50% of the transactions at my local gas station are Canadian lottery tickets with absurdly bad payouts.

So what is the common thread? = convenience, always convenience

This is why Bitcoin will never go mainstream... and no one gives a shit about ancient premine issues, etc

Boom... ETF denied.

[Hueristic]

How can this be, if he got all the stash at the premine ?

He didn't. I don't know where you heard that.

Then who got the 2 million DASH mined with the buggy code in 48 hours ?

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/display/OC/Dash+Instamine+Issue+Clarification


As to "many people were mining at that moment" is doubtful:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4596809#msg4596809

Yup that scumsucker cost most of us days while secretly mining And then changed the reward to mak his insta/Pre-mine worth even more.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589150#msg4589150

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096

And of course when they went back on their word of a relaunch they provided a functional wallet when it was too difficult to mine.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595765#msg4595765

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4599185#msg4599185

And of course win client pools not working when it was impossible to solo mine.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4599334#msg4599334

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4601121#msg4601121

AND the awesomeness of EdTheFucktards programming skill.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4601903#msg4601903

And the difficulty lie gets caught

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4603692#msg4603692

And math is just too hard for DuffTard

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4606994#msg4606994

In on the scam from the start.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4608456#msg4608456

And since others have pool running now he trys to steal all the fools he already screwed by bringing them to his pool.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4612622#msg4612622

And here's a safe *cough compiled win version (from some Random russian: name translates to "I got TK'd" I thought that was amusing at least) for those that can't recompile the late win code for the first fork

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4619266#msg4619266

OR you can trust this guys compiled miner, who cares if his nick is badman. Lol

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4635044#msg4635044

And thats just the start of the second relaunch.

The shit just keeps rolling downhill on those morons that kept trying. The true believers did nothing but keep the network secure for scraps that didn't pay the lectric it cost.

[iCEBREAKER]

The Lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

The Dash scam is a tax on people who are bad at math *and* don't understand the role cryptography plays in crypto-currency.  

In the last week 2 people with advanced degrees (dentist and an MBA)...
Asked me about Bitcoin... then completely zoned out about 10 seconds into the discussion.

About 50% of the transactions at my local gas station are Canadian lottery tickets with absurdly bad payouts.

So what is the common thread? = convenience, always convenience

This is why Bitcoin will never go mainstream... and no one gives a shit about ancient premine issues, etc

I've seen a million nerd things "no one gives a shit about" go mainstream.  Grandma loves her NES emulator, Yahoo games, email, scanner, etc.

You must adapt to your audience so they don't zone out.

Two interactions have demonstrated your approach is incorrect.  You should be engaging instead of alienating.

There are many parts of the Bitcoin elephant.  Your first priority is to ascertain which ones they may most easily grasp.

Code:

"Bitcoin solves [that problem you hate] better than any other solution because [reasons]."

[ArticMine]

A great example of a nerd project that went mainstream in a big way with zero marketing is Google. Even better Google has built up a multibillion dollar business getting others to pay them for marketing.

[AndreaF]

I'm not a Bytecoin supporter I have invested only ten dollar in Bytecoin I prefer other cryptocurrencies however Bytecoin whatever thing you can say about developers sincerity, that very likely have lied about the date, was easily available both for free with faucets, with hilariously low prices and easy to mine even with an home PC...

The problem is fundamentally that if there's a whale that owns 80% of the stash, he can manipulate it in just any direction.  No coin, "however cheap" for the rest of the 20% that is available, is believable if someone owns 80% of it.

This is also the problem with DASH: most probably half of the stash is in the hands of Evan Inc.  And a smaller but similar problem exists with ETH.  With bitcoin, if Satoshi has still his keys, this is a problem too, but most probably, these coins are dead.

I had the impression that there are no monero whales of that size.  That there is a power distribution of possession is normal: all assets are power-law distributed after a while.  But there should be an upper limit to the amount that is in the hands of a single entity, so that it cannot entirely manipulate the market.  Pump and dump, sure.  Unavoidable.  But not at a level that was the case with Bytecoin.

Your impression is wrong because premine isn't only way to control the most of supply. A decent Monero home mining was impossible since the first days due to hash power dispatched by developer\investors. If few people has the most of the supply I don't deserve a fuck if they have premined or they control the supply with botnets since the days after launch, the result is the same, few people own the coin and who want them have to buy from them. Bytecoin and Dash are more mined by their developers but given you the possibility to get easily a decent amount as early adopters, with Monero this wasn't possible and this isn't normal in any legit coin, unless they use large cloud botnet to control the supply since day one. Now over 14 million Monero have been mined, the double of Dash. WHO has mined them??? Certainly not a large group of users but mining clusters.
Without mention the shitty behaviors used by Monero crew to steal technology and defame the coin that have copied.

[Febo]

Mr.AndreaF   Monero was not mined on first day like the other crap coins you mention.  Understand? First day was mined only like 25k Monero.

At home on your computer you cant afford to mine a fortune. Is simple. You can rent hash power and mine a fortune of Moneros today so as you could on first day, but it will cost you a fortune. Everyone can! And as "DGA" or how is his nick here posted, he actually did it.

Even if I would mine all 25k Monero first day (and pay lots $ for electricity)  i could not be able to make market today with those 25k Moneros. Understand?   I was not able to get 2 millions and stack them to have 4 millions now.


I doubt you do since all you do here is troll. You have plenty threads of your crapcoins where you can post every hour. No need to troll here and mention them in every post.


With Monero everyone. Read here everyone could mine on first hour. And could mine 99% if would have enough $ to afford that much hash. in case of Bytcoin was that totally impossible. In case of DASH was similar. ask cryptohunter he is specialist for that crap coin.


And so much posts you made but you still could not answer to GingerAle question in first reply on your post.  Now 3 days latter after 10 of your posts here that clearly shows you dont care what people write here, all you care is to troll some idiotism.

[AndreaF]

Mr.AndreaF   Monero was not mined on first day like the other crap coins you mention.  Understand? First day was mined only like 100k Monero.

At home on your computer you cant afford to mine a fortune. Is simple. You can rent hash power and mine a fortune of Moneros. Today so as first day. everyone can! And as "DGA" or how is his nick here posted, he actually did it.

Even if I would mine all 100k Monero first day (and pay lots $ for electricity)  i could not be able to make market today with those 100k Moneros. Understand?


I doubt you do since all you do here is troll. You have plenty threads of your crapcoins where you can post every hour. No need to troll here and mention them in every post.


With Monero everyone. Read here everyone could mine on first hour. And could mine 99% if would have enough $ to afford that much hash. in case of Bytcoin was that totally impossible. In case of DASH was similar. ask cryptohunter he is specialist for that crap coin.

Maybe you have problem to read: I have clearly described that not premined means nothing if since the day of announcement if initial developers-investors have dispatched a large botnet and nobody can obtain a not hilarious quantity of satoshi without BUY from them. Buy from a botnet or buy from the developer bag change nothing in term of fairness of distribution,

Your impression is wrong because premine isn't only way to control the most of supply. A decent Monero home mining was impossible since the first days due to hash power dispatched by developer\investors. If few people has the most of the supply I don't deserve a fuck if they have premined or they control the supply with botnets since the days after launch, the result is the same, few people own the coin and who want them have to buy from them. Bytecoin and Dash are more mined by their developers but given you the possibility to get easily a decent amount as early adopters, with Monero this wasn't possible and this isn't normal in any legit coin, unless they use large cloud botnet to control the supply since day one. Now over 14 million Monero have been mined, the double of Dash. WHO has mined them??? Certainly not a large group of users but mining clusters.
Without mention the shitty behaviors used by Monero crew to steal technology and defame the coin that have copied.

Monero hasn't a more fair distribution than Bytecoin, or Dash or whatever other anoncoin in the market. It's a fact, I'm not a Dash supporter, or a Bytecoin supporter, but Monero despite the aggressive PR work and advertising is one of the worst coin of earth in terms of fairness since not even its technical development has been fair with a copy-paste of ring Cryptonote approach of  Bytecoin, with a pretty amateur development, followed by an huge defame campaign against the copied Bytecoin and all others anoncoins.

[dinofelis]

Monero hasn't a more fair distribution than Bytecoin, or Dash or whatever other anoncoin in the market.

What makes "anon" coins special in this respect ?  Why wouldn't other CPU coins be mined with a bot net, and in what way is a developer team the only one that can deploy a botnet ?   Isn't competition with botnets similar to competition with asics ?  

Can't you accuse every CPU coin to be botnet mined ?  Maybe bitcoin too in the first years ?  Maybe Satoshi had a botnet running that gave him all the coins until 2011 ?

I fail to see the logic behind this argument.  The only few XMR I ever had, was through mining them myself on my laptop !
It is the only coin I ever mined on my laptop.   So I don't see where this idea, that because it can be mined with a PC, it is of course mined by *one single botnet under the dev's control*.  If this took a long time (more than 48 hours say ) I would think that there was possibility of fair competition.  If a quarter of the current stash is mined before the most astute co-miners are even aware that the launch took place, with a difficulty "bug" so that you can do it on your PC, chances are it is the same guy launching the genesis block that got most of it, no ?  If on top of that, there is a PoS mechanism that amplifies initial stash, the word "fairness of distribution" becomes difficult to use.  If on top of that, there is a PoS voting system to use 10% of the mined coins on "development", you can imagine how centrally controlled this thing is.

However, it is very well possible that all this happened by accident, and that Evan Inc sold their initial stash on cocaine and prostitutes when DASH was less than a dollar, and are now biting off their nails when they see the price of DASH rise, not holding a single penny of what they instamined.  But allow me to doubt it.

[Febo]

You just accused 100 Monero code writers on github of having botnets without any proof.  Or " initial developers-investors"  who are this? Donald Trunp. Who are this guys? They for sure not come to this forum and develop Monero code now. Who exactly are they and how you know this?  



In general everyone can have botnets. You dont need to be Donald Trump. And they mine any coin that is most profitable. You dont need to be " initial developers-investors"  and you will not mine Monero if there is profit elsewhere. Botnets miners as any other miners secure network.  


It is huge difference to mine with botnets and sell those coins then if you just print coins to yourself with a so called mistake.


Monero never had any PR work. None so ever. All that was said was said by people that learn about it and see its value. And most are on this forum and reddit. Here on this forum many people that understand crypto and understand Monero and wrote about it  was critical to other crypto projects. You mentioned Bytecoin and DASH, but was many others. This thread is result of that. This brought those people start FUDing Monero and even made some PR campaigns.   I also understand Spoetnik to be just jealous on them since they steal his job revealing scams. But now after 2 years i think i was wrong.



You still had not answer GingerAlle. How many posts you will need to do till then?

[iamnotback]

@AndreaF does have a point. All crypto is power-law distributed. Somebody has access to more bots than most of us. And since he doesn't exist  , he doesn't need to waste money on PR to overcome the negative PR of his non-existence.

Choose your poison, the Evan Duckfleecer or the Moanero Bot Singularity.

[Febo]

No is not one poison or another. There can be no poison if you want it.
"Botnets poison" is or companies can mine or people can mine.  All CPU mined coins will be mined by botnets if they are the most profitable one.


Not sure why i am again talk about coin that have 999 threads already. Other option of mining 10% of PoS coin in one day is to not having mined 10% of PoS coin. There is no other option.




I dont think this thread is of botnets mining. But botnet mining is sort of positive since it just uses already existing resources.  you dont need new computer you use already existing idle one.


It is bad for high coin price since those miners usually dump coins fast.  But low price is on my opinion good for coin in first years. So is again positive.
It is ofcourse bad for that guy that own that computer. But he will somehow need to defend himself or his computer will wear out faster then should. Those that run those botnets are stealing those computer owners and lets hope they will be caught and pay his debt to society. But coin wise all hash powers are same.  hash-power is fungible

[AndreaF]

You just accused 100 Monero code writers on github of having botnets without any proof.  Or " initial developers-investors"  who are this? Donald Trunp. Who are this guys? They for sure not come to this forum and develop Monero code now. Who exactly are they and how you know this?  



In general everyone can have botnets. You dont need to be Donald Trump. And they mine any coin that is most profitable. You dont need to be " initial developers-investors"  and you will not mine Monero if there is profit elsewhere. Botnets miners as any other miners secure network.  


It is huge difference to mine with botnets and sell those coins then if you just print coins to yourself with a so called mistake.


Monero never had any PR work. None so ever. All that was said was said by people that learn about it and see its value. And most are on this forum and reddit. Here on this forum many people that understand crypto and understand Monero and wrote about it  was critical to other crypto projects. You mentioned Bytecoin and DASH, but was many others. This thread is result of that. This brought those people start FUDing Monero and even made some PR campaigns.   I also understand Spoetnik to be just jealous on them since they steal his job revealing scams. But now after 2 years i think i was wrong.



You still had not answer GingerAlle. How many posts you will need to do till then?

I have mentioned Bytecoin and Dash because they are some of the coins most attacked by Monero defamatory propaganda. The first was attacked at launch of Monero because was the original coin to implement anon ring system that Monero has copy pasted claiming to be "the fair version of Bytecoin" the second was attacked intensely due to the fact is an anoncoin that has gained popularity and price better than monero and they fear that may nullify Monero rise.
 
What I have said It's a fact. Who has followed this coin since the start can clearly see the abnormal hash power dispatched.
Overmining with no transparent distribution, and premine is the same, what approach between these is worst, depends only by the price that every user have to pay to get a part of the supply so that the mass of coin can be distributed between a larger number of players not remaining in the hand of few people. All the rest is senseless bullshit to FUD competitors.

[Febo]

There is no Monero propaganda.  None whatso ever. I have no ideas where you got this imagination.

There are people on this forum. That read ANN and other threads. Like  iamnotback, Spoetnik,   cryptohunter, ....   Many people like 100 or more. Some understand crypto more then others. I also now understand some.  This people comment on that Crypto and point to their flaws.  No crypto is perfect.


You mention this 2 coins, Yes they have huge flaw in their early distribution. But I am sure have many other problems also. If people on this forum told those problems is only right.  They were not made up for no reason but to educate people that read here.   Problem I see was that in defence all those people were marked as Monero gang.  All beside Spoetnik. he was true Scam exposer.   cryptohunter is a Monero and or Monero PR altho he is most likely just a BTC holder sceptical to most alts ( I do have no ideas, but most people critical to alts are holding just BTC).



Propaganda that exist are day traders. They will shill Monero and any coin they hold when they will have it and long it and they will FUD same coin 2 days latter when they will short it and hope to buy some next day cheap.  but is so easy to find this people as long you are reading this forum fora week or two.  Those people are true propaganda. That is their job. that puts bread on their table.

[drawingthesun]

How is this thread still a thing?

[pterodactyl]

How is this thread still a thing?

Probably because people occasionally bump it after 5 weeks of inactivity.

[drawingthesun]

How is this thread still a thing?

Probably because people occasionally bump it after 5 weeks of inactivity.

My bad.