Gigamining / Teramining

[jamesg]

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Tax_compliance

[vrtrasura]

What if I just want my btc back.  We loaned you btc as an asset issuer.  Did you claim taxes for all of that?  If I give you $20 for lunch and you give me $20 back later does that have tax implications?  Why do you need to get my tax information to give me what I gave you back?  Does it still have tax implications then?

Just curious, are you filing taxes on all of the coins you mine?

Giga, question: would you turn over all of your information to me if our situations were reversed?

[BurtW]

Sorry I took the thread off track.  I believe it boils down to just this:  Giga is doing whatever it takes to run a legit mining company.  Legit company = everything will be legit, including taxes.

[chungenhung]

Do you have the list of how many shares each person owns? If not, how will you process the payments?

[Graet]

Not impressed

I'll just have to add it to the other coins stolen/scammed from me
Which is a shame I was in the process of moving more of my holdings into gigamining as I thought it was a trustworthy and viable business, funny thing, other investments have already been bought back and paid out while we screw around with this rubbish.


Losing faith in the Bitcoin "community"
Graet

[MoPac]

Well, if you need my SSN in order to make a 1099, that makes sense, but I have to echo those above who are curious about how you would actually do that.  I assume that there is a form with a method to list noncash transactions.  This isn't automatically crazy just because it's Bitcoin, as some people in here seem to be assuming.  Remember that there are plenty of instances where people are paid in something other than cash, and that's all subject to the basically same rules as cash income.

However, I do think it is very important that you provide up front some detail on how you intend to establish fair market value. My intention has been (unless I find out this is wrong) to check the MtGox value at the time of each dividend and report that dollar value as income.  By recording the dollar value of the BTC I paid for a share at the time of share purchase, and the dollar value of the BTC I get back from a share at share sale, I can properly report my capital gain or loss.

It would be bad for everybody if mismatches started cropping up based on different ideas of BTC market value because of differences in averaging over time, or even looking at a different time on the same day, when the BTC price might have been volatile.  You don't want to have people disputing a 1099 in some kind of four-way cluster---- between a shareholder, you, your lawyer, and the IRS. This could very easily happen if your lawyers are not well-versed in complex securities issues.

We also, of course, need a lot more assurance than we have right now about the protection of our tax ID information.  This is a matter of routine for anyone asking for an SSN, as you know. But you also know as well as anybody that Bitcoin attracts very smart criminals and vandals who would just love the idea of dumping a gold mine of SSNs of shareholders from all over the community because they were held on an excel spreadsheet in the office of an issue-inexperienced lawyer who got in way over his head IT-security-wise.

The law firm you are working with is a generic criminal defense outfit that advertises no real competence whatsoever in matters of civil securities law. And the person we are actually sending this information to is not even mentioned on the firm's site, only coming up in Google searches as a company director of entities called Quentin Page LLC and X-Com LLC.

So I don't fundamentally have a problem with the basic idea of what you're doing.  But I think that there is space here to have legitimate concerns at this point about how it's being done and by whom.

[conspirosphere.tk]

What if I just want my btc back.

+1. I want out too. Giga send my coins back now no questions asked or you are a phuckin thieve. You already got my address. My GLBSE name is conspirosphere.

[edit]: and since I want to sound reasonable and crystal clear: I don't want to be involved in any way with your phony LLC on which I crap on, not to speak about sending my ID to you or your accomplices.

[edit 2]: all my contempt to the losers who are jumping in the hoops and playing nice guy just for the hope of recovering some crumbs of their investment.

[server]

Not impressed

I'll just have to add it to the other coins stolen/scammed from me
Which is a shame I was in the process of moving more of my holdings into gigamining as I thought it was a trustworthy and viable business, funny thing, other investments have already been bought back and paid out while we screw around with this rubbish.


Losing faith in the Bitcoin "community"
Graet

The longer Giga waits, the more people will lose faith in him.
Really harmful, not only for himself and his future operations but also damaging overall trust in bitcoin.

People will not easily forget his stalling techniques/unfair demands.

[jamesg]

Hi MoPac,

Thanks for your response. Please see my answers below.

but I have to echo those above who are curious about how you would actually do that.

I am currently developing the systems needed to automate these processes. I am a programmer in a previous life and have extensive experience in development systems such as this.

However, I do think it is very important that you provide up front some detail on how you intend to establish fair market value. My intention has been (unless I find out this is wrong) to check the MtGox value at the time of each dividend and report that dollar value as income.  By recording the dollar value of the BTC I paid for a share at the time of share purchase, and the dollar value of the BTC I get back from a share at share sale, I can properly report my capital gain or loss.

The mtgox 24 hour average will be used to determine the value delivered when a payment is made similar to your system above.

It would be bad for everybody if mismatches started cropping up based on different ideas of BTC market value because of differences in averaging over time, or even looking at a different time on the same day, when the BTC price might have been volatile.  You don't want to have people disputing a 1099 in some kind of four-way cluster---- between a shareholder, you, your lawyer, and the IRS. This could very easily happen if your lawyers are not well-versed in complex securities issues.

There will be one system of record. This system will be automated.

We also, of course, need a lot more assurance than we have right now about the protection of our tax ID information.  This is a matter of routine for anyone asking for an SSN, as you know. But you also know as well as anybody that Bitcoin attracts very smart criminals and vandals who would just love the idea of dumping a gold mine of SSNs of shareholders from all over the community because they were held on an excel spreadsheet in the office of an issue-inexperienced lawyer who got in way over his head IT-security-wise.

All sensitive information will be encrypted in the database (if it is ever stored there) and backups will be stored on encrypted drives.

So I don't fundamentally have a problem with the basic idea of what you're doing.  But I think that there is space here to have legitimate concerns at this point about how it's being done and by whom.

Thanks again for voicing your concerns in a reasonable manner. All data for the moment will be stored with Quentin until the internal systems are built to a production quality and the proper notices about data retention and security can be posted.

Best,
James

[randomguy7]

Gigavps, if you want to start a new contract that's fine, all you have to do is buy back the existing bonds and offer a trade-in for those who want to participate under the new contract. Changing the rules in the middle of the game is just plain fucking wrong.

Still waiting for an answer to my 2 emails from over a week ago btw. They contain all you need to pay me (except the new funny requirements, id n stuff). I'm in the shareholder list from nefario, confirmed that data, and also send additional proof that I was in possession of the claimed bonds till glbse went tits up. I bought my bonds directly from you so you KNOW FOR SURE that I had those claimed bonds.

[MoPac]

Thanks again for voicing your concerns in a reasonable manner.

And thank you for replying promptly and substantively.  I just have a quick followup:

(1) Since the secure storage for the SSNs is still being built, and I don't really know anything about Quentin's security except that he doesn't have a public key, I'm not really comfortable e-mailing him my SSN right now.  Would you prefer it if I:

   (a) Send him a partial claim once the affidavit form is released, then send the SSN later?

   (b) Hold off on sending any claim information until the system is whole, then send a complete claim with SSN? or

   (c) Encrypt a full claim to you at 6ADE3A3F for you to pass to him on paper or USB?

also

(2) Since the photo ID requirement is just for a generic governmental-issued document, I assume you'll just need to verify that it looks like a real ID and matches my address, date of birth, etc. Would there be any issue with me obscuring my DL# and other unique card identifier in the image, since I think your lawyers don't really need it, and (at least in my state), it often gets used like an SSN or account access card for many things?  I have the impression there has been a rash of people forging DLs with working magnetic stripe and using them at places that have replaced vendor-specific ID cards with DL swipes.

Thanks,

Adam

[jamesg]

And thank you for replying promptly and substantively.

You are most welcome.

(1) Since the secure storage for the SSNs is still being built, and I don't really know anything about Quentin's security except that he doesn't have a public key, I'm not really comfortable e-mailing him my SSN right now.  Would you prefer it if I:

If you have issues sending any data electronically, please snail mail it to Quentin. The address is on the request for claims.

(2) Since the photo ID requirement is just for a generic governmental-issued document, I assume you'll just need to verify that it looks like a real ID and matches my address, date of birth, etc. Would there be any issue with me obscuring my DL# and other unique card identifier in the image, since I think your lawyers don't really need it, and (at least in my state), it often gets used like an SSN or account access card for many things?  I have the impression there has been a rash of people forging DLs with working magnetic stripe and using them at places that have replaced vendor-specific ID cards with DL swipes.

This is a question for Quentin. If you email him with questions, he will be responding once a week to the previous weeks emails/snail mail.

Best,
James

[ab8989]

"These omissions alone could possibly cause the contract to be unenforceable"

To my knowledge pretty much no BTC related contracts like this have never been tried in court and the probability of either the old contracts or the new contracts ever to be tried to be enforced by anything else than gentlemans word is pretty close to zero.  In that sense it makes very little difference whether all the t's are crossed and i's have dots in the contract.

What is slightly implied here is a potential need to somebody try to enforce the contract by court of law. That of course happens after somebody is not keeping his gentlemans word.

Another important issue that I have not seen anybody mentioning is that what is known about this new LLC that is now part of the deal. How does this company balance sheet look like? Is it a healthy company with long and bright future ahead? Who owns the mining equipment? If it is this LLC, how was the transfer done? Did this LLC get a lot of debt when it perhaps bought the mining equipment from whoever owned them before this company was formed? In addition to this new debt with these contracts maybe this LLC is swimming really deep in debt? Or does this LLC own anything else than just this debt from these contracts? Does the old mining gear perhaps need to be shut down in very near future when ASICs take over the mining industry? Are there enthusiastic businessmen steering the LLC? Or maybe the businessmen are using their enthusiasm to benefit some other company and leaving this to take care of its own? What I mean is a debt from this LLC worth much of anything?

[randomguy7]

Dude how about answering my post? You've been online for the last 1,5 hours now and been reading the forum, also managed to answer that post just after mine. Don't hide behind that hide-online-status flag you toggled during the shitstorm, we still know you're there. An answer would be highly expected.

[MoPac]

Dude how about answering my post? You've been online for the last 1,5 hours now and been reading the forum, also managed to answer that post just after mine. Don't hide behind that hide-online-status flag you toggled during the shitstorm, we still know you're there. An answer would be highly expected.

It seems very clear at this point that Giga does not think that it is legally or economically safe to do what you are asking him to do.  Why is asking him harder going to help?

[jamesg]

Dude how about answering my post?

I've chosen to ignore your posts because you can't seem to read mine. I've answered most of your questions in other posts already.

It might be a good idea for you to read more and type less but since you are so persistent, I'll answer your questions.

all you have to do is buy back the existing bonds and offer a trade-in for those who want to participate under the new contract.

The buyback clause will not be executed at this time.

Still waiting for an answer to my 2 emails from over a week ago btw.

Quentin will be answering emails once a week after the affidavit is sent out. I've stated this numerous times already.

They contain all you need to pay me (except the new funny requirements, id n stuff).

Please submit all of the information according to the claims process.

[burnside]

Dude how about answering my post? You've been online for the last 1,5 hours now and been reading the forum, also managed to answer that post just after mine. Don't hide behind that hide-online-status flag you toggled during the shitstorm, we still know you're there. An answer would be highly expected.

It seems very clear at this point that Giga does not think that it is legally or economically safe to do what you are asking him to do.  Why is asking him harder going to help?

Are you arguing that it's ok to borrow something from someone promising to use it in a certain way, then change how you're using it while simultaneously refusing to give it back?

If I made an agreement with you to care for 10 of my cows, then you decided that instead of feeding them you were going to slaughter them instead.  Do I not have the right to ask for my cows back?  What if all the paperwork wasn't quite in order... I forgot to hand over my ID and Passport and SSN and Official Seal and Stamp of Approval and My Firstborn... but I still have a signed contract.  Have I given up the right to my cows?

As for the illegality, that's a stretch.  When exactly is it illegal to give someone back their belongings?  Have you ever heard that it's illegal to return someone's belongings?  Even if it's a complete stranger?  Let's do another analogy.

You're on a street corner, you have a lighter, the guy next to you asks to borrow it, says he needs it to light his cig.  You give it to him, he lights his cig, then throws it on the ground and is about to stomp on it.  Do you have the right to ask for it back?  (yes)  And if so, is it illegal for the guy to give it back?  (no)

Bitcoin is a commodity.  It's a person's "stuff".  Giga promised to use your stuff one way, and is now reneging on that agreement.  It's fairly clear to me that you have the right to ask for your stuff back.

[jamesg]

Giga, question: would you turn over all of your information to me if our situations were reversed?

I will be turning over my information to Coinlab to continue using up the loyalty points I have accumulated.

[creativex]

That's not the question that was asked.

This thread is a train wreck. Is there something about Hero Member tags that turn everyday folk into scammers?

[conspirosphere.tk]

Please submit all of the information according to the claims process.

Please anyone submit all of the info to the cops (I can't since I am in another continent).

help! help! I'm getting scammed! (again)