KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[philipma1957]

Why is there a big line on the shift graph ?  Do we lose our 5nd or is there just a weird big line on the shift graph?

I am okay don't know what you see.

[Crispyato]

I don't know how to upload image from file, I guess I need a IMGR?

[firetreeactual]

I don't know how to upload image from file, I guess I need a IMGR?

Use Imgur...upload your image to them, then they'll give you the code to insert the image here. www.imgur.com

EDIT: I stopped using Dropbox some time ago when I discovered just how invasive it was to one's own system. Way too "in there" for my liking.

[tf315]

Why is there a big line on the shift graph ?  Do we lose our 5nd or is there just a weird big line on the shift graph?

If you look at the shifts page (not the shift graph page) you see some very short shifts around 16:42. Depending on when your shares were returned it can calculate some crazy hashrates. One of those 0 second shifts has a hashrate 10x my real hashrate so there is a big spike on the graph page where that shift is for me.

Thats probably what you're seeing on your graph for your hashrate.

[Crispyato]

Why is there a big line on the shift graph ?  Do we lose our 5nd or is there just a weird big line on the shift graph?

If you look at the shifts page (not the shift graph page) you see some very short shifts around 16:42. Depending on when your shares were returned it can calculate some crazy hashrates. One of those 0 second shifts has a hashrate 10x my real hashrate so there is a big spike on the graph page where that shift is for me.

Thats probably what you're seeing on your graph for your hashrate.

Yeah it coincides with those weird shifts.  Thanks Firetree ...

[Crispyato]

I'm gonna hold this 5nd 3 more hours then I'm cutting any rentals on MRR.  I recommend everybody else do so, the owners need to see some cut in half rewards to understand they need to cut prices...  Only worth it at %350 luck, even then its slim.

[firetreeactual]

Yer welkum, Crispy... (hukt on fonix wurkt 4 me!)

Guess I'll move the S3s here at home back to Kano...I've had them on solo for the past few days just to gamble (which I don't do). 

[zOU]

With 40Ths on the pool we need 333Ghs to be above dust level, correct ?

I've turned off my 4xS5 for now.
I'll restart them in a cou of weeks when they'll run on free power (and i'll restart the 4xS3+ too then)

[maxsettings]

I'm gonna hold this 5nd 3 more hours then I'm cutting any rentals on MRR.  I recommend everybody else do so, the owners need to see some cut in half rewards to understand they need to cut prices...  Only worth it at %350 luck, even then its slim.

Yeah I went with my plan to let my NH rentals die before halving because I assumed (and so far am correct) that prices wouldn't "halve" to match when we hit 420000. Gonna let that shake out for a while and reconsider later.

[liveflipcoin]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND? 

[firetreeactual]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND? 

Very astute. Yup...half. Keep in mind, though, that spot is now close to USD$650, whereas it was less than $300 a year ago. Pays to keep such things in perspective.

[wmabern]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND? 

Very astute. Yup...half. Keep in mind, though, that spot is now close to USD$650, whereas it was less than $300 a year ago. Pays to keep such things in perspective.

I think it will be a little more than half as, from what I understand, the transaction fees will increase. Thankfully, this pool pays out transaction fees where others like antpoo keep the fees for themselves.

[firetreeactual]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND? 

Very astute. Yup...half. Keep in mind, though, that spot is now close to USD$650, whereas it was less than $300 a year ago. Pays to keep such things in perspective.

I think it will be a little more than half as, from what I understand, the transaction fees will increase. Thankfully, this pool pays out transaction fees where others like antpoo keep the fees for themselves.

True...a bit more. Another reason to be here rather than Brand X. 

[tlhIlwI]

It was nice to see the pool hash rate stay stable through the halving.  My A6s and rentals are remaining here, but I will be turning off my SP20s later today.  I got 19 profitable months out of those!

[firetreeactual]

Happy the S3 has not been happy the past week or so...just went offline and I didn't have time to take it apart. Switched everything back over to Kano this morning (from a week-long solo jaunt), plugged Happy into the network and power...and he booted just fine. Hmmm. Then I put a voltmeter on an open socket and found the line is supplying only 102v. Time to pull out the 1800w line conditioner to run just the six S3s. We've got an "interesting" power grid on Kaua'i. 

[sloopy]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND?  

Very astute. Yup...half. Keep in mind, though, that spot is now close to USD$650, whereas it was less than $300 a year ago. Pays to keep such things in perspective.

I think it will be a little more than half as, from what I understand, the transaction fees will increase. Thankfully, this pool pays out transaction fees where others like antpoo keep the fees for themselves.

We have to all do whatever we can to make sure, or I should say whatever we can do to help others in a position to make sure those transaction fees are NOT taken from the true miners.

In my understanding of the roadmap we are going to see off-chain services offered by a huge group of core programmers which is where our transaction fees will go. Again, my understanding is they are taking the approach to less transactions on the bitcoin chain as the solution to the original block size debate. I am oversimplifying and I bet there are threads which will explain this in much more detail but the only way we can help fight this is by supporting people in positions to have an impact.

@kano and @-ck
I would appreciate if you could point me towards each of your personal opinions on where we are at with this. Am I way off in my basic translation?
Do you feel as though this is happening, and is inevitable?
Do you feel as this is a good thing? If not, what can we (as individual miners) do to have an impact?

I welcome input and corrections from everyone and anyone except lukejr. I do not see his opinions regarding bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general being based in helping bitcoin grow. I see his (and several others) actions based on moving bitcoin in a direction to serve a small group of people. I specifically name lukejr, but there are others who share his views and again several others who support the direction they want to take bitcoin.

IF the people who want to take transaction fees from the miners were somehow more subtle about their actions, the code, the inability to contemplate other solutions, etc which were not so blatantly lining their own pockets maybe I would not take it so personally.

I sincerely hope I am wrong.
I hope there is something I misunderstand.
Mainly, because I feel powerless to impact these choices made by many of the core programmers to take transactions off the main chain which will take transaction fees from the miners.

Why do Antpool, F2pool, etc not care? They have known and seen the direction core are taking and their SPV-Zero transaction fee system of mining has not been developed to give themselves, much less miners transaction fees anyway. For example, antpool say they give the transaction fees to their engineers as support for their work. I would expect their engineers to work on solutions to grab more transaction fees and do more to make sure they are going to keep getting those if that were the case. If Antpool were of the opinion transaction fees are a crucial component of their long term business model then why not make changes to grab as much as possible? Obviously they could. I do not believe they are interested in making sure transaction fees are a crucial component for their engineers, much less their miners. They are after the rewards and the obvious other areas where they invest their time and money. One last time on this point, if it was important, why haven't they done something about it? It isn't as though they do not have the resources.

I am not saying we should support some other branch, fork, etc. I am not an altcoin supporter in that sense as I do think core have the best organization at this point to keep the apple cart from being upset. Please do not bring up the debate of using something else in response to my post as that is not the direction I am trying to suggest unless a majority felt as though that was our only way to make sure miners are protected among other extremely important items.

Actually, I am not suggesting anything at this point other than I firmly believe we as a community need to make sure we are all educated regarding the specifics.

Hell, I hope I am completely wrong. I hope Kano or CK show up and reply telling me I am missing the points, the end results, the impact on fees, etc of the proposed changes.

If anyone has researched this recently I appreciate if you can point me towards cites explaining this scenario.

I am not a "sky is falling" type of person. I do have strong opinions regarding bitcoin. I started mining because this looked like something cool to learn and spend time with versus the tens of thousands I was blowing in various other ways. That alone has kept much more money either in my pocket or spent on other material items which I am enjoying.

I grew into bitcoin because of what I learned and my beliefs in what bitcoin can do for society. I grew my farm because I found bitcoin miners were incentivized to help bitcoin grow and be protected. I want to see more people involved in bitcoin across the world because I see many ways it can make dramatic changes in business and in the lives of individuals who know nothing about it. Simply evaluating the money transfer business of western union and the like can help people who NEED the money to live and support their families keep more of that money. I am able to sell and purchase things for my business from other businesses both locally and across the world in such simpler, safer, and more cost effective ways with bitcoin.

I feel like a reduction in transaction fees is not what was originally intended, is not the way the system is supposed to work, removes a huge incentive for individuals to enter the mining scene, and is being done to make a small group of people wealthier than they already are from the money they have made riding the bitcoin wave. Most of those guys were involved very early anyway, and it is a matter of greed, control, and power over bitcoin at this point.

I do not want to be misunderstood. I am not saying any specific change is "bad" right now, except where it involves taking transaction fees from miners and giving those to someone else.

Again, I hope I am wrong and I have wasted my time typing this post, and your time for anyone reading it. If so, I apologize, and will edit it to reflect such.

I look forward to hearing from others and if you are not familiar with anything I mentioned please allow an opportunity for others who are more educated than either of us to respond so we can both be more informed.

I appreciate your time and would not intentionally waste it. I mention this because it is so important and I do not want people to assume transaction fees are something which doesn't require protection for miners, now more than ever before.

[philipma1957]

So now we will be making 1/2 of whatever we made at our 5ND?  

Very astute. Yup...half. Keep in mind, though, that spot is now close to USD$650, whereas it was less than $300 a year ago. Pays to keep such things in perspective.

I think it will be a little more than half as, from what I understand, the transaction fees will increase. Thankfully, this pool pays out transaction fees where others like antpoo keep the fees for themselves.

We have to all do whatever we can to make sure, or I should say whatever we can do to help others in a position to make sure those transaction fees are NOT taken from the true miners.

In my understanding of the roadmap we are going to see off-chain services offered by a huge group of core programmers which is where our transaction fees will go. Again, my understanding is they are taking the approach to less transactions on the bitcoin chain as the solution to the original block size debate. I am oversimplifying and I bet there are threads which will explain this in much more detail but the only way we can help fight this is by supporting people in positions to have an impact.

@kano and @-ck
I would appreciate if you could point me towards each of your personal opinions on where we are at with this. Am I way off in my basic translation?
Do you feel as though this is happening, and is inevitable?
Do you feel as this is a good thing? If not, what can we (as individual miners) do to have an impact?

I welcome input and corrections from everyone and anyone except lukejr. I do not see his opinions regarding bitcoin or cryptocurrency in general being based in helping bitcoin grow. I see his (and several others) actions based on moving bitcoin in a direction to serve a small group of people. I specifically name lukejr, but there are others who share his views and again several others who support the direction they want to take bitcoin.

IF the people who want to take transaction fees from the miners were somehow more subtle about their actions, the code, the inability to contemplate other solutions, etc which were not so blatantly lining their own pockets maybe I would not take it so personally.

I sincerely hope I am wrong.
I hope there is something I misunderstand.
Mainly, because I feel powerless to impact these choices made by many of the core programmers to take transactions off the main chain which will take transaction fees from the miners.

Why do Antpool, F2pool, etc not care? They have known and seen the direction core are taking and their SPV-Zero transaction fee system of mining has not been developed to give themselves, much less miners transaction fees anyway. For example, antpool say they give the transaction fees to their engineers as support for their work. I would expect their engineers to work on solutions to grab more transaction fees and do more to make sure they are going to keep getting those if that were the case. If Antpool were of the opinion transaction fees are a crucial component of their long term business model then why not make changes to grab as much as possible? Obviously they could. I do not believe they are interested in making sure transaction fees are a crucial component for their engineers, much less their miners. They are after the rewards and the obvious other areas where they invest their time and money. One last time on this point, if it was important, why haven't they done something about it? It isn't as though they do not have the resources.

I am not saying we should support some other branch, fork, etc. I am not an altcoin supporter in that sense as I do think core have the best organization at this point to keep the apple cart from being upset. Please do not bring up the debate of using something else in response to my post as that is not the direction I am trying to suggest unless a majority felt as though that was our only way to make sure miners are protected among other extremely important items.

Actually, I am not suggesting anything at this point other than I firmly believe we as a community need to make sure we are all educated regarding the specifics.

Hell, I hope I am completely wrong. I hope Kano or CK show up and reply telling me I am missing the points, the end results, the impact on fees, etc of the proposed changes.

If anyone has researched this recently I appreciate if you can point me towards cites explaining this scenario.

I am not a "sky is falling" type of person. I do have strong opinions regarding bitcoin. I started mining because this looked like something cool to learn and spend time with versus the tens of thousands I was blowing in various other ways. That alone has kept much more money either in my pocket or spent on other material items which I am enjoying.

I grew into bitcoin because of what I learned and my beliefs in what bitcoin can do for society. I grew my farm because I found bitcoin miners were incentivized to help bitcoin grow and be protected. I want to see more people involved in bitcoin across the world because I see many ways it can make dramatic changes in business and in the lives of individuals who know nothing about it. Simply evaluating the money transfer business of western union and the like can help people who NEED the money to live and support their families keep more of that money. I am able to sell and purchase things for my business from other businesses both locally and across the world in such simpler, safer, and more cost effective ways with bitcoin.

I feel like a reduction in transaction fees is not what was originally intended, is not the way the system is supposed to work, removes a huge incentive for individuals to enter the mining scene, and is being done to make a small group of people wealthier than they already are from the money they have made riding the bitcoin wave. Most of those guys were involved very early anyway, and it is a matter of greed, control, and power over bitcoin at this point.

I do not want to be misunderstood. I am not saying any specific change is "bad" right now, except where it involves taking transaction fees from miners and giving those to someone else.

Again, I hope I am wrong and I have wasted my time typing this post, and your time for anyone reading it. If so, I apologize, and will edit it to reflect such.

I look forward to hearing from others and if you are not familiar with anything I mentioned please allow an opportunity for others who are more educated than either of us to respond so we can both be more informed.

I appreciate your time and would not intentionally waste it. I mention this because it is so important and I do not want people to assume transaction fees are something which doesn't require protection for miners, now more than ever before.

The last off chain miner was Josh from Massachusetts company started with gridseed sales then zeus big con artist

if btc goes off chain it will die.

[Chili.Dog]

What do you think will happen with rentals.
will they 1/2
or price them self's out of biz.

[kano]

OK, a few things so that no one is in the dark about the effects of the halving, and other related comments.

The halving does indeed mean you expect to now get half the BTC for your hash rate, that you did before.
Here you get a bit better than half, and expect to average better than all the big pools.

--

Yes the rewards of course will now become roughly half what they were before.
It's a bit more since we pay txn fees to miners and we never mine empty blocks.
We do get a small block every once in a while, but never empty.

This means that to avoid dust mining, now requires roughly double the hash rate.

So for the pool running at 40PHs, the hash rate that will average around the dust level is roughly 320GHs

The simplest way to calculate it is 12.5 BTC gets divvied up among 40,000,000GHs so what gets 0.0001 BTC?
 40,000,000 GHs / (12.5 BTC / 0.0001 BTC) = 320 GHs

or Pool PHs / 125,000 = Pool THs / 125

40PHs says the limit is roughly 320GHs
41PHs -> 328GHs
42PHs -> 336GHs
43PHs -> 344GHs
44PHs -> 352GHs
.
.
50PHs -> 400GHs

--

Someone asked me about pool fees.

No I'm not increasing them
(No I'm not decreasing them )

--

My take on the SegWit/SideChain agenda of the devs to take away our hard earned transaction fees?

These 2 posts in the last couple of weeks:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg15376326#msg15376326
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg15415180#msg15415180

--

There was a run of 9 short shifts across the halving boundry.
Now that I've looked at it closely, it's clear what the bug was that happened there.
Nothing was lost, it just meant some rather short high variance shifts.

It was caused by my halving change that wasn't checking if it had already done a shift change on the 420000 block, so the first, but also each following, work change on the 420000 block produced a new shift.
Because the shifts were very short, that means there was much higher variance on each shift.
It doesn't affect any future payout that crosses over them, but will randomly affect any future payout (over the next day), in a very small way, that might end during the short shifts.

[clgrissom3]

What do you think will happen with rentals.
will they 1/2
or price them self's out of biz.

I ran a 20THs rental at 1.1502 BTC/PH/Day for a couple of hours today while I was switching my hardware from the Solo pool back to Kano.  The rate at 100% PPS right now is 1.17834 BTC/PH/Day...so it looks like the prices are falling in line (not counting the 3% fee).