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Author Topic: KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2437 blocks  (Read 5350889 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (50 posts by 3+ users deleted.)
nhando
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March 19, 2016, 11:24:08 PM
 #13021

It didn't change on the downward on this experiment and even when everything is done, it still shows at 5.4K diff.  Same with my last rental from a long time ago showing at 144K as it was much much higher hash rate.  When it dwindle down to 0, it didn't bring down the difficulty.   I only see if adjust when you end it and restart the rental.

Just "Mining" my own business.
tlhIlwI
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March 19, 2016, 11:50:30 PM
 #13022

It didn't change on the downward on this experiment and even when everything is done, it still shows at 5.4K diff.  Same with my last rental from a long time ago showing at 144K as it was much much higher hash rate.  When it dwindle down to 0, it didn't bring down the difficulty.   I only see if adjust when you end it and restart the rental.

I guess it is normal behavior then.  I'm fairly new to the renting thing (I prefer my own equipment), but about a week ago I parked some rentals on WestHash at 5%, 10%, and 15% under market (after fees) just to see if it is worth it or not.  I don't change the rates or cancel them (except at the network diff change)... just let them bubble to the top of their price points as other rentals come and go.  I refill as necessary.  If I adjusted anything I would end up at the back of the line.  They're usually inactive except for a few hours here and there, but I figured I would give it a try.

Seeing as the work diff gets stuck at the maximum diff ever seen for the worker, I suppose that I should use multiple worker names in the future (one for each rental point).  It's not a big deal since it doesn't affect rewards though.

Kano clarified for me that the number of stale shares isn't affected which was my biggest concern without knowledge of the technical specifics.  When I stop and think about it, I shouldn't have been worried about that either.  No problem here.


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kano (OP)
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March 20, 2016, 12:54:40 AM
 #13023

Now, regarding all the tracking withholding work I've been doing, here's an update on it:

Firstly, there's a bunch of miners in the subnet 91.218.B.* (B=8-11) that are running hardware that doesn't produce blocks.
Try 'whois 91.218.8.0'
They know it also, since they've changed around their settings, email addresses, swapped to address accounts, and even stopped mining here.
I've emailed them and got no reply.
The main account that alerted me to the problem was the username "foma" that is certainly withholding.
Code:
foma |       53.05G |              693,740 |    11 |        1.02G |        1.99G |        1.32G
That says: submitted 53G diff of shares, ~690K shares, 11 were over 1G diff, smallest over 1G was 1.02G, biggest over 1G was 1.99G (avg over 1G = 1.32G)
1.99/53.05 = 3.8% luck or 53.05/1.99 = 2666% Diff ... yeah way too high ... 1000% is a good indicator that something is almost certainly wrong.
Now of course there's the actual best share number 1.99G which is less than 2^31 - so it's hardware that wont produce a block or even a share over 2^31

Their total mining since the first account (foma) was created on 19-Jan has been 52.05339 BTC
The total I've held back (over the past ~week) is: 5.96578576 BTC (of that ~52 BTC)
So they've made ~46BTC mining while withholding since January.

During that time the pool luck has been ~110%, and their mining has been very roughly 0.94% of the pool total.
If you happen to know anyone on that subnet in Russia, let them know your dissatisfaction with their mining and the fact they've been taking BTC from us without the possibility of producing a block for the pool (which they know)

--

There's a second one also.
His statistics are extremely suspect for a similar, but not exactly the same reason.
His account name is saradis (plus others) ... who happens to match an account mentioned in the BCMonster pool thread ... I'll link them this post
(I have already told them and Johnny about foma)
It's a smaller account and I need to spend more time on analysing it.
The luck is below 9% (above 1100% diff) the max share is below 2^32 (not 2^31)
I'll post more details later.

--

There are 2 more accounts that I put on hold, that I have since let out of jail.
I'll not say who they are since it would appear I jumped the gun on them and they are not guilty.
One was by association of being in a subnet related to 'foma'.
They've not lost anything, just didn't get some payouts that will be in their balance until they either ask for them or I get around to sending out dust and unpaid balances ... some time in the future ... in a galaxy far far away.
... and that's IMO the best thing about how I'm dealing with this, any payment that I hold back isn't lost, if they turn out to not be guilty of withholding.
(and as I said before any amount like the ~6BTC above that I do hold and they are withholding, I'll later distribute to the payout that should have got it, once I've setup that sort of thing to work with the pool without having to manually do it)

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
Legacy2005
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March 20, 2016, 01:09:25 AM
 #13024

Thanks for the info kano. Would have been nice to know if this was the same person withholding as the other pool had. But of course no info was shared from them.

Good to know you are on the look out. Same the pool couldnt recoup more from them.
bctmke
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March 20, 2016, 01:37:09 AM
 #13025

Fantastic explanation kano.

Thank you sir for the update.

NXS is on the move!   Come subscribe to our subreddit  https://www.reddit.com/r/nexusearth/
Come mine NXS at http://nxsminingpool.com
tlhIlwI
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March 20, 2016, 02:08:55 AM
 #13026

Thanks for the update kano.  I'm glad to hear they are no longer mining here.

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citronick
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March 20, 2016, 02:17:14 AM
 #13027

these crooks need to be punished!

is it true to assume, that the 46BTC that got away with were rightfully from other members?

thanks kano for being transparent in the matter.

Meanwhile, way to go frozencat!!! -- are you related to sabercatt, the block before you?

If I provided you good and useful info or just a smile to your day, consider sending me merit points to further validate this Bitcointalk account ~ useful for future account recovery...
nhando
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March 20, 2016, 02:20:39 AM
 #13028

Conspiracy theories.  I still don't buy it.  No one benefits from withholding blocks.  What if it's a coincident that someone rented hash and that happened when their rental ended due to them canceling or ran out of fund.  That's the only way I would see it makes sense.

Just "Mining" my own business.
kano (OP)
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March 20, 2016, 02:20:55 AM
 #13029

Something I've wondered for a while is if a miner could make multiple connections to a pool and feed it work only in a certain difficulty range.

Where a normal miner would only get paid for shares over say 3k diff, this multi-connection miner could make 4 connections and stack the rewards by sending all shares less than 1k diff to connection 1, 1-2k diff to connection 2, 2-3k diff to connection 3 and so on.

Is there some kind of per connection nonce or unique identifier to prevent this?
No you can't game the pool Tongue

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
clgrissom3
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March 20, 2016, 02:25:47 AM
Last edit: March 20, 2016, 02:49:29 AM by clgrissom3
 #13030

these crooks need to be punished!

is it true to assume, that the 46BTC that got away with were rightfully from other members?

thanks kano for being transparent in the matter.

Meanwhile, way to go frozencat!!! -- are you related to sabercatt, the block before you?

Yea, nice job frozencat with your 13THs!  I took the pooch for a walk and I missed this one  Grin

Edit:  frozencat's block fell on shift lucy, the shift that has the least number of blocks...good girl lucy!  Cheesy
Legacy2005
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March 20, 2016, 02:43:26 AM
 #13031

hmm zachs page down for anyone? getting a 500 internal server error.
kano (OP)
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March 20, 2016, 02:46:08 AM
 #13032

Conspiracy theories.  I still don't buy it.  No one benefits from withholding blocks.
Other pools would if, e.g. I had not detected it and it had spread or even just continued.

... by that I mean ... people might leave here and go somewhere else if the luck falls consistently.

Losing ~1% of the pool's blocks in not insignificant in my opinion ...

Of course if any pool has long term bad luck it's quite understandable and quite intelligent to leave them Tongue
We happen to have 110% luck during this ... so was really more like 111%

But you do need to consider the statistics and probabilities, not go hopping each time a pool gets a few blocks over 100% diff ......... as is expected to happen ... and hopping will not change your expected payout.

... e.g. slush's December luck was ~1 in 7633.6 chance of getting that luck in a month ... ~1 in 636 years Tongue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77000.msg13482822#msg13482822

The worst luck we've had here was Red October.
But that was only 13 blocks (12 + the last one in September) with an average of ~168% diff
CDF[Erl] is 0.983642 - which is ~1 in 61 chance of that or worse happening - so no where near as improbable ... ~1 in 5 years.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
clgrissom3
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March 20, 2016, 02:56:09 AM
 #13033

I guess I still cannot wrap my head around the motive for anyone doing this.  Are they hoping that they can drive the pool luck down so that members leave and go.....where?  Even if they could cause the pool luck to go down, how can they direct anyone to go where it would benefit them?

I can see that it happened and that they did it intentionally but I just don't see the end game for the perpetrators.  Maybe I just can't think like the bad guys!
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March 20, 2016, 03:10:28 AM
 #13034

I guess I still cannot wrap my head around the motive for anyone doing this.  Are they hoping that they can drive the pool luck down so that members leave and go.....where?  Even if they could cause the pool luck to go down, how can they direct anyone to go where it would benefit them?

I can see that it happened and that they did it intentionally but I just don't see the end game for the perpetrators.  Maybe I just can't think like the bad guys!
Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I doubt it started out as malice. Likely it started out as stupidity and has turned to malice over time.

Since they never respond when directly questioned/emailed, the most likely explanation is this was a batch of custom miners that were faulty right from the beginning, be it due to firmware or dodgy software, that had a 32 bit signed integer limitation somewhere in their design that cannot be now fixed, or is not worth the effort to fix, and have been mining under the radar for ages on other pools without being noticed. Now that they have been noticed, they have been moving from pool to pool to try and be not noticed and appear to have no intention to try and fix the issue.

Developer/maintainer for cgminer, ckpool/ckproxy, and the -ck kernel
2% Fee Solo mining at solo.ckpool.org
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clgrissom3
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March 20, 2016, 03:38:46 AM
 #13035

I guess I still cannot wrap my head around the motive for anyone doing this.  Are they hoping that they can drive the pool luck down so that members leave and go.....where?  Even if they could cause the pool luck to go down, how can they direct anyone to go where it would benefit them?

I can see that it happened and that they did it intentionally but I just don't see the end game for the perpetrators.  Maybe I just can't think like the bad guys!
Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I doubt it started out as malice. Likely it started out as stupidity and has turned to malice over time.

Since they never respond when directly questioned/emailed, the most likely explanation is this was a batch of custom miners that were faulty right from the beginning, be it due to firmware or dodgy software, that had a 32 bit signed integer limitation somewhere in their design that cannot be now fixed, or is not worth the effort to fix, and have been mining under the radar for ages on other pools without being noticed. Now that they have been noticed, they have been moving from pool to pool to try and be not noticed and appear to have no intention to try and fix the issue.

Now that I can understand...thanks ck!
nhando
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March 20, 2016, 03:42:42 AM
 #13036

I guess I still cannot wrap my head around the motive for anyone doing this.  Are they hoping that they can drive the pool luck down so that members leave and go.....where?  Even if they could cause the pool luck to go down, how can they direct anyone to go where it would benefit them?

I can see that it happened and that they did it intentionally but I just don't see the end game for the perpetrators.  Maybe I just can't think like the bad guys!
Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I doubt it started out as malice. Likely it started out as stupidity and has turned to malice over time.

Since they never respond when directly questioned/emailed, the most likely explanation is this was a batch of custom miners that were faulty right from the beginning, be it due to firmware or dodgy software, that had a 32 bit signed integer limitation somewhere in their design that cannot be now fixed, or is not worth the effort to fix, and have been mining under the radar for ages on other pools without being noticed. Now that they have been noticed, they have been moving from pool to pool to try and be not noticed and appear to have no intention to try and fix the issue.

What kind of hardware were they running?

Just "Mining" my own business.
Megaquake
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March 20, 2016, 03:45:37 AM
 #13037

I guess I still cannot wrap my head around the motive for anyone doing this.  Are they hoping that they can drive the pool luck down so that members leave and go.....where?  Even if they could cause the pool luck to go down, how can they direct anyone to go where it would benefit them?

I can see that it happened and that they did it intentionally but I just don't see the end game for the perpetrators.  Maybe I just can't think like the bad guys!
Hanlon's razor - "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice."

I doubt it started out as malice. Likely it started out as stupidity and has turned to malice over time.

Since they never respond when directly questioned/emailed, the most likely explanation is this was a batch of custom miners that were faulty right from the beginning, be it due to firmware or dodgy software, that had a 32 bit signed integer limitation somewhere in their design that cannot be now fixed, or is not worth the effort to fix, and have been mining under the radar for ages on other pools without being noticed. Now that they have been noticed, they have been moving from pool to pool to try and be not noticed and appear to have no intention to try and fix the issue.

What kind of hardware were they running?

look here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg14226522#msg14226522

Mines at Kano.is best profit in the world!

在Kano.is的BTC
nhando
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March 20, 2016, 03:49:34 AM
 #13038

Dammit, seems like Shirlock Holmes won't be able to track this one.  So what checks do we have in place today to safeguard us from this issue?  So these bastard took a bunch of BTC somewhere around 46BTC after the deduction from us?  Don't make me get Putin to chase down their ass!  Not cool.

Just "Mining" my own business.
hurricandave
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March 20, 2016, 03:56:39 AM
 #13039

Maybe it's the same group of equipment that was attacking Slush in 2014 then BTCGuild in early 2015. They know the rigs have shortcuts taken in their firmware and have been getting creative in hiding it because that's easier than admitting they've got a room full of shitty equipment. Undecided
Undecided
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March 20, 2016, 04:09:14 AM
 #13040

Do you think it is possible for them to be redirecting the block finding shares at a local wallet and the rest of the garbage shares at the pools?

BCMonster.com BTC, KMD, ZEN, HUSH, RFox, ARRR, ACH, VRSC <cpu> -   /  Easy Live Dashboards   / Looking for Miners! Join our Discord
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