KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2435 blocks

[shmain]

Block   Block UTC   Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range   Pool N Avg   Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
508425   9/Feb 20:11   12.44363511   14.378T   366hr 33m 46s   46.80PHs   0.07%   9.925G   32.30THs   0.00858980

however i pointed about 70th/s at the pool since then, and about 5 days in, increased my hash rate to about 87.

also, thank you for explaing the 5nd thing, that makes a little bit more sense but it still doesn't explain the extremely low payout.
I included the 2nd pic to show the start of my mining and the hashing rate. It wasn't exactly 10 days, it was less but the point remains and it seems off

Looking at your screenshots, you've been mining with ~5 miners over that period for the 6-7 days before the pool found a block.

Back of my napkin math is:

5 * 7 days = 35 TH average

Yours shows 32.3TH which agrees within 10% of my very rough calculation.

problem is, if you look at my actual hashing rate, how was the 35th/s calculated? i can send more pics of the rest of the shares for the rest of the block, the average should have been at least double that. will the other 4 payments over the course of the next few blocks be greater than that first payment? is that just the average hash rate for the 1st 1/5th of the payments?

[1714193810]

1714193810

[1714193810]

1714193810

[akadamson]

Block   Block UTC   Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range   Pool N Avg   Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
508425   9/Feb 20:11   12.44363511   14.378T   366hr 33m 46s   46.80PHs   0.07%   9.925G   32.30THs   0.00858980

however i pointed about 70th/s at the pool since then, and about 5 days in, increased my hash rate to about 87.

also, thank you for explaing the 5nd thing, that makes a little bit more sense but it still doesn't explain the extremely low payout.
I included the 2nd pic to show the start of my mining and the hashing rate. It wasn't exactly 10 days, it was less but the point remains and it seems off

Looking at your screenshots, you've been mining with ~5 miners over that period for the 6-7 days before the pool found a block.

Back of my napkin math is:

5 * 7 days = 35 TH average

Yours shows 32.3TH which agrees within 10% of my very rough calculation.

problem is, if you look at my actual hashing rate, how was the 35th/s calculated? i can send more pics of the rest of the shares for the rest of the block, the average should have been at least double that. will the other 4 payments over the course of the next few blocks be greater than that first payment? is that just the average hash rate for the 1st 1/5th of the payments?

Just make this easy on yourself... post the picture of your shift graph, that will tell all the story anyone needs to see what happened

[Yrth]

Block   Block UTC   Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range   Pool N Avg   Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
508425   9/Feb 20:11   12.44363511   14.378T   366hr 33m 46s   46.80PHs   0.07%   9.925G   32.30THs   0.00858980

however i pointed about 70th/s at the pool since then, and about 5 days in, increased my hash rate to about 87.

also, thank you for explaing the 5nd thing, that makes a little bit more sense but it still doesn't explain the extremely low payout.
I included the 2nd pic to show the start of my mining and the hashing rate. It wasn't exactly 10 days, it was less but the point remains and it seems off

Part of the problem was that it was an almost 600% block. Meaning that at 100% luck, we should have found almost 6 blocks. Had we been finding blocks at the 100%, you would have received a few smaller, but increasing payouts until you have shares across the whole 5nd. It sucks to be on that side of the variance, but it happens.

It reduces variance by spreading out the reward over a large number of shares. People hopping in and out, that are trying to capitalize on short term runs of luck, have little effect on the rewards of those of us that have been here mining all along. They are still rewarded for their work - like everyone else. But it's spread out over 5nd worth of shares. Any hash contributed would be rewarded proportionally for any blocks found during the 5nd. Unlike at Slush or another large pool, people notice when they haven't found a block for 3-4 hours and boom their hash rate goes crazy. Since it only takes about 1.5 hours to ramp up there.

[shmain]

https://i.imgur.com/4gn1TZ1.jpg

here is the shift graph that shows that the average is incorrect

[Yrth]

problem is, if you look at my actual hashing rate, how was the 35th/s calculated? i can send more pics of the rest of the shares for the rest of the block, the average should have been at least double that. will the other 4 payments over the course of the next few blocks be greater than that first payment? is that just the average hash rate for the 1st 1/5th of the payments?

There is no guarantee of 4 payments. Could be 1 or could be 10, just depends on how lucky we are as a pool. But yes, they should increase until you have shares spead throughout the 5nd (The shaded red area on the graph).

[akadamson]

here is the shift graph that shows that the average is incorrect

how is the average incorrect?

The pink block is the 5Nd, you had ~70Th inside the pink area for less than 50% of it.

The fuzzy math says, there is your 32Th/s


Ignore the red line at 27 something, that is your average across the entire chart, not just the 5Nd

[Yrth]

here is the shift graph that shows that the average is incorrect

The average is for the entire graph (red line), not just the 5nd. The entire graph is about 23-24 days.

[kano]

https://i.imgur.com/4gn1TZ1.jpg

here is the shift graph that shows that the average is incorrect

The 'Average' is the average of the whole graph.
All that 'zero' at the front of the graph pulls down the average.
The 5Nd average (that you are rewarded) is shown in Account->Rewards

[nazzer]

Block   Block UTC   Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range   Pool N Avg   Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
508425   9/Feb 20:11   12.44363511   14.378T   366hr 33m 46s   46.80PHs   0.07%   9.925G   32.30THs   0.00858980

however i pointed about 70th/s at the pool since then, and about 5 days in, increased my hash rate to about 87.

also, thank you for explaing the 5nd thing, that makes a little bit more sense but it still doesn't explain the extremely low payout.
I included the 2nd pic to show the start of my mining and the hashing rate. It wasn't exactly 10 days, it was less but the point remains and it seems off

Looking at your screenshots, you've been mining with ~5 miners over that period for the 6-7 days before the pool found a block.

Back of my napkin math is:

5 * 7 days = 35 TH average

Yours shows 32.3TH which agrees within 10% of my very rough calculation.

problem is, if you look at my actual hashing rate, how was the 35th/s calculated? i can send more pics of the rest of the shares for the rest of the block, the average should have been at least double that. will the other 4 payments over the course of the next few blocks be greater than that first payment? is that just the average hash rate for the 1st 1/5th of the payments?

1) Calculation

It's fairly simple - a more accurate calculation can be done from:

https://kano.is/index.php?k=shifts

Take the Avg Hs column for all the shifts that are paying out for the block.
My average is 106.2186.
The reward page says 106.14 - well within the margin of error for my rough calculation based on shifts.

2) Payments

As I explained previously, all shifts within the last 5Nd of a block found are taken into account.
Our expected block find rate is 100%, this means that each share will be accounted for 5 times.

If luck is better, you get rewarded more times per share. I've seen my shares getting rewarded 9 times during good times.
If luck is worse, you get rewarded less - or in the case of the last block, some shares weren't even counted for the reward.

3) Shift graph

Shift graph covers more than the 5Nd, so the value reported there is not your average for 5Nd for the block.

[shmain]

i see, so its down to my failure to understanding the wording correctly. the average is of the entire 5nd timeframe. so am i correct in saying that I am also just waiting for a few more blocks to hit to get paid the rest of the amount? i understand that its not what I expected but it still seems awfully low. I guess ill wait it out?

[akadamson]

ok, I give, how do you share a imgur image?  I tried just the link, that didn't work, then I tried wrapping it with the image wrappers and that didn't work... must be a trick I'm missing?

Was testing, but this is my shift graph from the (600% block)... Almost at 100%, but gave some shares to a friend to keep him in the game because he lost AC and had to do dark for half a day.

[Philopolymath]

i got fucked bad by 5nd 4 days at 192 for ZERO payout and it previous shifts only paid once...
i lost over $3000 that I would have made at Slush

And every post gets deleted...
becasue
these lying fucks hate the truth

[fjtropepe]

i got fucked bad by 5nd 4 days at 192 for ZERO payout and it previous shifts only paid once...
i lost over $3000 that I would have made at Slush

And every post gets deleted...
becasue
these lying fucks hate the truth

3000 for 4 days? You have that much gear and still, don't know what is going on? Crazy. I am jealous.

[nazzer]

i see, so its down to my failure to understanding the wording correctly. the average is of the entire 5nd timeframe. so am i correct in saying that I am also just waiting for a few more blocks to hit to get paid the rest of the amount? i understand that its not what I expected but it still seems awfully low. I guess ill wait it out?

Pretty much you get rewarded less at the beginning, but if luck holds all shares are paid out equally (hence the "you get paid 1/5th at the start" or "each share is paid 5 times at 1/5th" misunderstanding)

Hopefully we get the next four blocks within 100%  

ok, I give, how do you share a imgur image?  I tried just the link, that didn't work, then I tried wrapping it with the image wrappers and that didn't work... must be a trick I'm missing?
[/quote

I dunno either, I've moved to using tinypic now  

[Yrth]

i see, so its down to my failure to understanding the wording correctly. the average is of the entire 5nd timeframe. so am i correct in saying that I am also just waiting for a few more blocks to hit to get paid the rest of the amount? i understand that its not what I expected but it still seems awfully low. I guess ill wait it out?

5nd is not a function of time, but a function of number of shares. 5nd = 5*network difficulty (currently 14,373,371,172,079.5) worth of shares. It only relates to time in how long it takes to submit that many shares (currently at 52.9PH it would take about 13 days 12 hours).

when we find a block, the pool counts back the last 14,373,371,172,079.5 shares and rewards every one accordingly. The more shares you have contributed during to the total the higher your reward.

[nazzer]

i got fucked bad by 5nd 4 days at 192 for ZERO payout and it previous shifts only paid once...
i lost over $3000 that I would have made at Slush

And every post gets deleted...
becasue
these lying fucks hate the truth

I feel your pain ... but truth is my miners at Kano were making more than my miners on Slush until the dreaded 500% block of doom.

Hence my moving of miners to reduce my personal income variance.

[clgrissom3]

ok, I give, how do you share a imgur image?  I tried just the link, that didn't work, then I tried wrapping it with the image wrappers and that didn't work... must be a trick I'm missing?

You use the BBCode (message boards & forums)

[kano]

i see, so its down to my failure to understanding the wording correctly. the average is of the entire 5nd timeframe. so am i correct in saying that I am also just waiting for a few more blocks to hit to get paid the rest of the amount? i understand that its not what I expected but it still seems awfully low. I guess ill wait it out?

To put it into details:

When we find a block we reward all shares in the last 5Nd which was ~366 hours (according to Account->Rewards)
So during those 366 if, e.g. you only mined for half of it, your reward would be half what you expect.
Why? Well if you had been mining for 366 hours you would have done twice as much work as if you were mining for 183 hrs
That's the simple logic of working out your reward for the block.

Now there's 2 more more facts to consider:
1) We had bad luck ... ~600% block
So if instead we had found the expected 6 blocks instead of just 1, you would have got 6 total rewards, however it still wouldn't add up to the number you are probably expecting.

2) 5Nd from Help->Payouts
The 5Nd spreads out your reward for each share over all the blocks found in the 5Nd after you submit the share.
So you expect each share to get 1/5 of it's expected reward per block found.
If at the start of the 5Nd before the block you were already 'ramped' up, then you would have submitted, over the 5Nd, 5 times the number of shares you expect to submit per block - and thus get 5 * 1/5 of your expected reward = 1
There's also this simple text drawing I did a while back to help explain this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789369.msg26608107#msg26608107

[shmain]

Yeah i guess I'll stick around and see what happens with the next few blocks. since im almost out of the ramp up period, im probably better off not leaving at this point. hopefully we have some good luck. i do still have a feeling that the 5nd and ramp up period and combination of a 600% block screwed me over though and I'm not happy with the outcome but theres no going back.

BTW, thank you to all the people here who were helpful. I'm not satisfied with the outcome but even so... but at least I have a better understanding of how this works now

[akadamson]

ok, I give, how do you share a imgur image?  I tried just the link, that didn't work, then I tried wrapping it with the image wrappers and that didn't work... must be a trick I'm missing?

You use the BBCode (message boards & forums)

Ah ha!  Thanks, figured it out with that tip.