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Question: would you be interested in an next generation ASIC trade up program for your ModMiner Quad?
YES
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Author Topic: High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com  (Read 218105 times)
squid
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October 20, 2012, 07:56:07 PM
 #1481

Nope, untrue.
Can you elaborate? this was my expectation as well.

I think Tom said first production run could be up to 1000 units, I don't think he has made any statement yet regarding if we have reached that quantity yet.
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October 20, 2012, 08:05:57 PM
 #1482

We must be getting close with confirmed orders numbering in the 1500's:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117955.0;topicseen

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October 20, 2012, 08:11:00 PM
 #1483

we arent even close yet to chip / board availability limit (which btw is right around 1000 units) to be available to ship with the first batch.

The first "batch" is scheduled to begin shipping the first week after thanksgiving.

Approximately 650 bASIC units have been pre-ordered.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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October 20, 2012, 08:32:06 PM
 #1484

We must be getting close with confirmed orders numbering in the 1500's:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117955.0;topicseen

i recall Tom telling me that roughly half of the order # represents real orders; so ~750.
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October 20, 2012, 08:38:33 PM
 #1485

PuertoLibre:  You seem to be confused on a great many details.  I'd be happy to refute your incorrect points if you want, so which is it:  Do you want me to leave this thread alone or continue to point out the ludicrous nature of both Tom's waffling and your incorrect assessment of details (that can be easily verified if you spent 10 seconds actually, you know, reading my posts)?

Tom admitted that he lied about BFL's power, good enough for me.  It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers, but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.  He's fleecing people for their pre-orders, and that's sad, but there's not much I can do about that.

Here's something I want you to ask yourself:  Tom has announced that he's using Cell ASIC design.  He's not announced the process node, but lets be generous and say it's 45nm, since he has already stated that it was BGA based.  He's stated that he has licensed the SHA256 IP core from somewhere, but where?  If it's licensed from somewhere, has it been optimized for bitcoin's requirements? Perhaps it's a hardcopy from his "prototype" he claimed to have back at the beginning of September... but regardless of the source of his the IP core, it's going to be power hungry by the very nature of it being a CBIC, and again, being generous, lets say it uses only 30% of the power of the Modminer Quad.

Modminer quad: 40w @ 800 MH/s = 20 MH/w

30% of 40w = 12w per 800 MH/s or 810w for 54 Gh/s ... and I'm being pretty darned generous with the figures.  But heck, I'm a generous guy, lets cut that in half just for giggles!  405w for 54 GH/s.  Welcome back GPU's!  At least we've found a use for all the extra PSU's out there from the GPU mining era.  Of course, I'm just speculating, since Tom won't release any details, so it could turn out that my speculation is totally off base... but if not and I were Tom, I'd be keeping my power estimates secret, too.

How's that transparency working out for you, BTW?

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 20, 2012, 08:54:37 PM
 #1486

It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers
where exactly did he do that? Enlighten us please. Otherwise i call you the one lying now.
Quote
but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.
did you hear he will release this information this weekend? I suggest you reread the last page of this thread.
Quote
He's fleecing people for their pre-orders, and that's sad, but there's not much I can do about that.
acutally you already have done a lot. Because of you people refund their BFL order and stick with Tom. Plus many more will not even get in touch with BFL, instead heading for tom first. Nice.

Quote
He's stated that he has licensed the SHA256 IP core from somewhere, but where?
from californa. Reread it somewhere in this thread, he already meantioned that before.

Quote
But heck, I'm a pretty screwed up person.
agreed

Quote
How's that transparency working out for you, BTW?
Telling me to not publish any figures that may not be accurate is transparancy to me. Tell anyone to not do something is telling them what you will do. Isnt this transparancy?
At least its better than publish childish figures, than come up with something 4 times that high. Rember?

Edit: i just think about trolling your threads and ask about your power consumption, bringing up those FPGA stories of yours on every reply. Because you cant prove them, i tell everyone its a lie and stuff. Maybe i should mention in every post that your power consumption now is 240 watt, because you know why..
but then again, im not a screwed up person after all.

Hai
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October 20, 2012, 09:26:31 PM
 #1487

PuertoLibre:  You seem to be confused on a great many details.  I'd be happy to refute your incorrect points if you want, so which is it:  Do you want me to leave this thread alone or continue to point out the ludicrous nature of both Tom's waffling and your incorrect assessment of details (that can be easily verified if you spent 10 seconds actually, you know, reading my posts)?

Tom admitted that he lied about BFL's power, good enough for me.  It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers, but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.  He's fleecing people for their pre-orders, and that's sad, but there's not much I can do about that.

Here's something I want you to ask yourself:  Tom has announced that he's using Cell ASIC design.  He's not announced the process node, but lets be generous and say it's 45nm, since he has already stated that it was BGA based.  He's stated that he has licensed the SHA256 IP core from somewhere, but where?  If it's licensed from somewhere, has it been optimized for bitcoin's requirements? Perhaps it's a hardcopy from his "prototype" he claimed to have back at the beginning of September... but regardless of the source of his the IP core, it's going to be power hungry by the very nature of it being a CBIC, and again, being generous, lets say it uses only 30% of the power of the Modminer Quad.

Modminer quad: 40w @ 800 MH/s = 20 MH/w

30% of 40w = 12w per 800 MH/s or 810w for 54 Gh/s ... and I'm being pretty darned generous with the figures.  But heck, I'm a generous guy, lets cut that in half just for giggles!  405w for 54 GH/s.  Welcome back GPU's!  At least we've found a use for all the extra PSU's out there from the GPU mining era.  Of course, I'm just speculating, since Tom won't release any details, so it could turn out that my speculation is totally off base... but if not and I were Tom, I'd be keeping my power estimates secret, too.

How's that transparency working out for you, BTW?


You are being generous? If we use the same logic you are using and quote BFL's fpga device as a "reliable" estimate then your device will consume twice as much power as the supposed bASIC will since the MMQ is twice as efficient as the BFL single. The ridiculousness of your claim is outstanding.

Btw, SHA256 isn't that complicated and has been around for awhile. While full-custom has the potential for the best performance, that is only the case with complicated architectures. Since SHA256 isn't that completed, and there already exist cell libraries for this system its reasonable to say that Tom's device can be competitive to BFL's device simply because the complexity of a SHA256 device just isn't there.
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October 20, 2012, 09:31:53 PM
 #1488

It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers, but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.

Dude seriously? When did Tom lie? He stated from the very beginning he will release the power numbers when he has them. Like I said before, he does not want to release some bullshit estimate number like BFL did with their FPGA Singles and be way the hell off. If you don't like it, don't buy from him. The end. Stop posting this bullshit on his thread. I come to this thread to read updates from Tom about his bASIC progress, not this crap.

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October 20, 2012, 09:39:54 PM
 #1489

I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware.
Consider that if you order a bASIC today, your order will likely ship out with the first batch, whereas if you instead order the mentioned competing product, your order will likely have to wait in the queue a good while after shipping begins before being shipped out.

With the first batch of ASIC chips produced for Tom (a 1000 of them), not with the first batch of bASICs shipped.
Why? Let's see:

bASIC units will be assembled at the same plant that the ModMiner Quad's are, they will be produced in batches of 30-50 every 5-10 days and shipped out on first come first served basis

We must be getting close with confirmed orders numbering in the 1500's:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117955.0;topicseen
i recall Tom telling me that roughly half of the order # represents real orders; so ~750.

Having 750 orders now, shipping in batches of 50 every 5 days (the optimistic assumption) - your order will likely ship 75 days after bASIC starts shipping.
Having 750 orders now, shipping in batches of 30 every 10 days (the pessimistic assumption) - your order will likely ship 250 days after bASIC starts shipping.
So, the answer for Bitcoin_Bing is: today placed order will likely ship 75-250 days after bASIC starts shipping.

If things has changed from 4th September, let Tom correct me.
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October 20, 2012, 09:49:44 PM
 #1490

You said you don't know what the power draw will be? By "more efficient" than a MMQ, is that total power, or MHs/W? If the latter, this could use > 1.2KW and still me considered "more efficient".
this will be public info in a few days

This thread is very long, so I could miss the info, but judging by the latest posts, Tom changed his mind and didn't publish the power estimates, did he?
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October 20, 2012, 10:05:55 PM
 #1491

But heck, I'm a generous guy, lets cut that in half just for giggles!  405w for 54 GH/s.  Welcome back GPU's!

Where do you get that crack you're smoking? I need to get me some of that if you think 400w @ 54 GH/s is GPU-land.

It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers

Since you like calling Tom a liar, let's quote some of your lies.

Quote from: BFL
ships in 4-6 weeks

ROFL. You lied about when they'd ship. This lie went on for months.

Quote from: BFL
1 GH/s @ 20 watts

ROFLMAO. You lied about performance and power usage.

The trifecta of lies. You lied about performance, power usage, and shipping date. Good job.

Buy & Hold
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October 20, 2012, 10:40:08 PM
 #1492

You said you don't know what the power draw will be? By "more efficient" than a MMQ, is that total power, or MHs/W? If the latter, this could use > 1.2KW and still me considered "more efficient".
this will be public info in a few days

This thread is very long, so I could miss the info, but judging by the latest posts, Tom changed his mind and didn't publish the power estimates, did he?

He said this weekend.  And the weekend isn't quite 1/2 over yet.

M

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October 20, 2012, 10:47:57 PM
 #1493

I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware.
Consider that if you order a bASIC today, your order will likely ship out with the first batch, whereas if you instead order the mentioned competing product, your order will likely have to wait in the queue a good while after shipping begins before being shipped out.

With the first batch of ASIC chips produced for Tom (a 1000 of them), not with the first batch of bASICs shipped.
Why? Let's see:

bASIC units will be assembled at the same plant that the ModMiner Quad's are, they will be produced in batches of 30-50 every 5-10 days and shipped out on first come first served basis

We must be getting close with confirmed orders numbering in the 1500's:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=117955.0;topicseen
i recall Tom telling me that roughly half of the order # represents real orders; so ~750.

Having 750 orders now, shipping in batches of 50 every 5 days (the optimistic assumption) - your order will likely ship 75 days after bASIC starts shipping.
Having 750 orders now, shipping in batches of 30 every 10 days (the pessimistic assumption) - your order will likely ship 250 days after bASIC starts shipping.
So, the answer for Bitcoin_Bing is: today placed order will likely ship 75-250 days after bASIC starts shipping.

If things has changed from 4th September, let Tom correct me.


When I originally announced the bASIC we were just testing a preliminary prototype and I really had no idea of the response we would get to it or how nicely the product itself would develop.

I was thinking of the volume I was currently handling with the ModMiner Quad - and based those very small and I admit very ignorant numbers on that. Basically I was not planning to expand my operation but considering the volume of sales we have been able to achieve - I am in the process of expanding my operation significantly.

Batches of 30-50 every 5-10 days is about the maximum I could handle by myself and that's why I quoted that. The assembly house that actually produces the boards can handle whatever quantity I need at whatever rate I need them made at, I could literally have 1000 ModMiner Quads made by them in 24 hours (it would not be cheap) but this demonstrates their capacity.  


However everything is changed now including changing some things about the design that make it much easier and faster to get out the door than the ModMiner Quad, and I am upgrading my operation quite a bit to handle the increased demand.

What has changed?

(a) The ModMiner quad goes through a lot of steps that take time
- The PCB boards are fabricated in one place in china
- The FPGA Chips are purchased from another place
- Everything is shipped to me and then
- Everything is shipped to the assembly house
- I purchase some final parts and have them shipped here
- Everything gets nearly assembled and shipped here
- I put them together and test them, package them up myself and ship them out myself
- All while trying to handle support issues, customer service and the logistics of the whole thing

So with the bASIC I decided to streamline a lot of these things, for one I have a very good relationship with the place that assembles the ModMinerQuad and they have taken over a lot more responsibility with this project:
- Their engineers are designing the final production board
- The PCB's will be fabricated by them
- The Boards will be assembled by them to completion


Then final boards will be shipped to me


And here is where I have made another change and upgraded my operation:

I have also leased a 2500 square foot office space / store front which I am in the process of moving into and will be hiring full time employees to help when the bASIC units ship out, their duties will include  opening up boxes from the assembly house - loading firmware - testing for 24 hours - boxing them back up and shipping them out to customers.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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October 20, 2012, 11:22:33 PM
 #1494

I couldn't care less about the dreamy promises that BFL is making about their products. What i do care, and what i do want to see in this thread are actual informations about the bASIC products. So please, let this psycho scream for attention and leave him alone, this will do the most harm to his strategy. Do you really don't understand that Inaba is only trying to trick Tom into being "unconfortable" about their bASIC power requirements? it's clear to me. They are trying to slow him down, with whatever method possible. Tom, do not buy this dirty trick. Release your power informations, i'm personally fine with even 800W for 54 Ghash/sec if you keep the delivery promise of early December for example, and i'm sure others will encourage you to do so as well. Also, you said you have a prototype board laying around, why don't shoot some pictures ? even if it's ugly, we understand it's not a final product.
Tom I support you wholeheartedly, please listen to my advices!

Trust no one.
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October 20, 2012, 11:55:31 PM
 #1495

I couldn't care less about the dreamy promises that BFL is making about their products. What i do care, and what i do want to see in this thread are actual informations about the bASIC products. So please, let this psycho scream for attention and leave him alone, this will do the most harm to his strategy. Do you really don't understand that Inaba is only trying to trick Tom into being "unconfortable" about their bASIC power requirements? it's clear to me. They are trying to slow him down, with whatever method possible. Tom, do not buy this dirty trick. Release your power informations, i'm personally fine with even 800W for 54 Ghash/sec if you keep the delivery promise of early December for example, and i'm sure others will encourage you to do so as well. Also, you said you have a prototype board laying around, why don't shoot some pictures ? even if it's ugly, we understand it's not a final product.
Tom I support you wholeheartedly, please listen to my advices!

Soon it shall be done... Cue the music!

(spoken with a divining undertone)
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October 20, 2012, 11:58:40 PM
 #1496

where exactly did he do that? Enlighten us please. Otherwise i call you the one lying now.

Dude seriously? When did Tom lie? He stated from the very beginning he will release the power numbers when he has them. Like I said before, he does not want to release some bullshit estimate number like BFL did with their FPGA Singles and be way the hell off. If you don't like it, don't buy from him. The end. Stop posting this bullshit on his thread. I come to this thread to read updates from Tom about his bASIC progress, not this crap.

Since you two seem to have trouble reading, here's a link back to the post:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1285889#msg1285889

Since you like calling Tom a liar, let's quote some of your lies.

Quote from: BFL
ships in 4-6 weeks

ROFL. You lied about when they'd ship. This lie went on for months.

Quote from: BFL
1 GH/s @ 20 watts

ROFLMAO. You lied about performance and power usage.

The trifecta of lies. You lied about performance, power usage, and shipping date. Good job.

Syke, can you please provide actual links to where I said that?  Seriously, I would like to see you link to a post where I said any of those things.  If you can't, then I'm afraid it's you who is the liar.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 21, 2012, 12:06:24 AM
 #1497

where exactly did he do that? Enlighten us please. Otherwise i call you the one lying now.

Dude seriously? When did Tom lie? He stated from the very beginning he will release the power numbers when he has them. Like I said before, he does not want to release some bullshit estimate number like BFL did with their FPGA Singles and be way the hell off. If you don't like it, don't buy from him. The end. Stop posting this bullshit on his thread. I come to this thread to read updates from Tom about his bASIC progress, not this crap.

Since you two seem to have trouble reading, here's a link back to the post:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79637.msg1285889#msg1285889

I've read this multiple times, and I think you're reading more into it than is there.  Lying would be "I know for a fact BFL can't meet their promises" and "I guarantee bASIC items will be 10% more efficient than other ASIC equivalents", and then renig on it.  I don't see him saying either of those things, and he certainly hasn't released his specs (yet), so how could it be wrong?

Take a chill pill dude.

M

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October 21, 2012, 12:09:15 AM
 #1498

If things has changed from 4th September, let Tom correct me.
However everything is changed now (...)
Thanks. So, any shipping date is possible, for the price however.

BTW, no one asked if the factory will mine on the units? Wink
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October 21, 2012, 12:25:30 AM
 #1499

Since you like calling Tom a liar, let's quote some of your lies.

Quote from: BFL
ships in 4-6 weeks

ROFL. You lied about when they'd ship. This lie went on for months.

Quote from: BFL
1 GH/s @ 20 watts

ROFLMAO. You lied about performance and power usage.

The trifecta of lies. You lied about performance, power usage, and shipping date. Good job.

Syke, can you please provide actual links to where I said that?  Seriously, I would like to see you link to a post where I said any of those things.  If you can't, then I'm afraid it's you who is the liar.

Since you represent BFL on this forum and are an executive officer of BFL, "you" obviously means "BFL". Typical red herring of yours.

Buy & Hold
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October 21, 2012, 12:30:02 AM
 #1500

PuertoLibre:  You seem to be confused on a great many details.  I'd be happy to refute your incorrect points if you want, so which is it:  Do you want me to leave this thread alone or continue to point out the ludicrous nature of both Tom's waffling and your incorrect assessment of details (that can be easily verified if you spent 10 seconds actually, you know, reading my posts)?

I'd prefer you leave this thread alone.

--------------------------------

There is a big difference between a lie and an presumption.

Tom does know what your estimated power figures are. He simply does not believe they are an accurate depiction of your final product. He has stated he believes this is unlikely to be true. This is called a partially informed opinion with bias.

You (Inaba) call into question Toms not-yet-be-released power figures without knowing what they actually are presumed to be. You have formed an opinion based on various assumptions on the technology and design that might be used and with very limited knowledge over his device. This is a largely uninformed and heavily biased conclusion.

The difference (if any) is that Tom does not believe your stated power figures are an accurate depiction of your device. You choose to assume (based on your technical assumptions/assertions) that Toms device cannot be anywhere near his yet-to-be-released power figures.

This is called a difference of opinion on different points of fact about either persons device. Both known and unknown factors.

------------------------------

Further, you have taken it further than simply an opinion and have gone forward  to broadcast assertions (without direct knowledge) that Tom is fleecing/robbing his customers.

Tom admitted that he lied about BFL's power, good enough for me.  It's a shame that he continues to lie to his customers, but that's not really any of my business if he continues to hide the important details about his product.  He's fleecing people for their pre-orders, and that's sad, but there's not much I can do about that.

This steps beyond mere speculation and into the area of Defamation. Possible Libel and Slander.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
-----------------------------

Starting in the next few days, I will write an automation script to collect your posts and post them in a thread called:
"Inabas/BFL_Josh Words of the Day".

Every 24 hours your publicly released posts will show up in sequential order for everyone to read. Any Vitrol you wish to commit will be collected there indiscriminately.

People will have a fine opportunity to skim your fine posts of the day in one place. What I hope to achieve is a fact of behavior trending. If the majority of your posts are kind and amiable with your prospective users, customers, and people in general....people will see that. If they are unkind and extremely unproductive (and even financially destructive to your company) they will see that as well.

I suppose that with this, you will either be forced to consider the ramifications of every post you make and modify your behavior OR concrete it to the best of your ability.

If you are seen as helpful, it will show. If you are not, you have only yourself to blame.


.WOLF.BET.
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