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Question: would you be interested in an next generation ASIC trade up program for your ModMiner Quad?
YES
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Author Topic: High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com  (Read 200776 times)
jjshabadoo
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October 19, 2012, 01:23:10 AM
 #1321

Ok Inaba.

When your fixed cost is extremely low and your initial capital outlay is high, that fixed cost becomes largely irrelevant.

It doesn't matter anyway, because you're deluded if you think any ASIC which will ship in the next couple months will be competitive with future products in three years.

Try doing an Internal Rate of Return and plug in your expected device power usage and then do one with power doubled. You'll see that when all factors are considered, electricity is largely an irrelevant cost.
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cablepair
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October 19, 2012, 01:44:15 AM
 #1322

IMO

I think it is completely pointless to argue about simulated (guessed) electrical efficiency.

NOT ONE SINGLE ASIC Manufacturer has offered ANY proof what so ever as to the electrical usage of it's ASIC device.

THAT INCLUDES BASIC, bfl, AVALON, Or any of the others.


So let's put our money where our mouth is shall we?

According to this:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/16-Announcement-BFL-ASIC-Release-specifications

BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume 1 Watt of Electricity per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed

(Power figures are +/- 10% of those listed while we finish optimizing our power subsystem.)



Inaba, I will personally bet you 1000 BTC that BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume more electricity than 1.1 watt per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed.
( .1 or (10%) to compensate for that power subsystem optimization)

I am willing to place the bet immediately and deposit the coins with a reputable person to act as escrow however the terms of my bet are as follows:

1) When BFL's line of ASIC's hit the wild they must not consume more than 1.1 watt of electricity per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed, and according to everything you are telling us 1.1 watts per 1Gh/s is the most electricity they will use.

2) You will no longer post in my thread, if you post in my thread again you automatically lose the bet.

Let me know if your interested in this bet. if your as sure of BFL's efficiency as you say you are than this should be an easy 12k win for you - like I said I'm ready to deposit the coins in an escrow as soon as you are.

Let me know what you think, even if I lose the 12k it would be worth it - to get your rotten attitude out of my thread for a little while.

Have a nice evening. Smiley
Tom
miter_myles
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October 19, 2012, 01:45:55 AM
 #1323


BTC - 1D7g5395bs7idApTx1KTXrfDW7JUgzx6Z5
LTC - LVFukQnCWUimBxZuXKqTVKy1L2Jb8kZasL
regular
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October 19, 2012, 01:53:48 AM
 #1324

And that's the definition of putting your money where your mouth is.

Always welcoming donations: 1NmxEfzU4psW7DMjogWsQSDoebubTLjHST
Shadow383
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October 19, 2012, 01:56:06 AM
 #1325

Inaba, I will personally bet you 1000 BTC that BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume more electricity than 1.1 watt per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed.

*Cough*
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=782
*Cough*

Seriously though, that's bold, I like it  Cheesy
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October 19, 2012, 02:04:43 AM
 #1326

ill be away for awhile, let me know if your interested Inaba, and please let's keep this a friendly gentlemen bet. No need for trash talking - a simple yes or no will do.

bbl
jjshabadoo
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October 19, 2012, 02:13:14 AM
 #1327

So this bet would mean no more than 66 watts for an SC single

60 GH at 1.1 GH/W

no more than about 5 watts for a jalapeno.

1650 watts for a mini rig.
abracadabra
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October 19, 2012, 03:00:07 AM
 #1328


[SNIP]
Inaba, I will personally bet you 1000 BTC that BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume more electricity than 1.1 watt per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed.
( .1 or (10%) to compensate for that power subsystem optimization)
[/SNIP]



grishnakh
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October 19, 2012, 03:03:10 AM
 #1329

Well this is getting interesting

MrTeal
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October 19, 2012, 03:12:23 AM
 #1330

I got my ModMinerQuad in the mail today (once I paid my 10% to the taxman Tongue), and it's hashing away. Great product, I'm hoping the ASICs are just as plug and play.



Great contest, thanks for the preview of my coming bASIC order Tom.
PuertoLibre
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October 19, 2012, 03:16:23 AM
 #1331

@ Cablepair

That is a crazy amount of money...

Therefore you should be extremely specific as to the nature of the electrical use.

When you cite 1.1 watts of electrical use, you should specify WHERE the electrical current will be measured and HOW. I know it sounds stupid of me to bring this up but these are points that the loser and winner would look over the fine print.

------------------------------

For example,

Inaba might choose one of his BFL Single SC that has premium chips and actually does 1.1watts per GH/s. So you might want to specify if this is from an average sampling or if Inaba (BFL_Josh) can choose which which sample he wants. (Not all rigs are equal at the chip level.)

-----------

Another point that might later be brought up is WHERE the measurement occurs. At the Chip Socket level?
The Power supply electrical socket? You won't know if the BFL Single SC is using something like a nanoATX power supply with an efficiency of 65% or if it is a quality PSU of 95%.

You should be very specific as to where the measurement occurs and what kind of measurement device is used. (Lab quality or if it is something like a Kill-A-Watt meter.

-----------

You should also specify WHO will do the measurement and how many samples are necessary to verify the electrical draw. (Perhaps you can send each other samples or ask a third party for verification? (Youtube Video recording of the measurement process without editing?)

It might make good PR or bad PR depending on how the details come together.

Oh and last but not least, whether "Tethered wattage" is considered part of the final result or not.
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October 19, 2012, 03:17:12 AM
 #1332

54Gh/s bASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices
Pre-Order Yours Today!     
Only $1069.99 ! @ http://www.BitcoinASIC.com
Bogart
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October 19, 2012, 03:23:41 AM
 #1333

ASIC is not CPUs, it's not GPUs and it's not FPGAs.  It's the end of the line for mining technology for the foreseeable future.

This got me to thinking, aside from the obviously huge gains to be had from process shrink, do you suppose any of the current ASIC designs use memristor technology?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memristor

Maybe my understanding is insufficient, but is it not reasonable to think that more efficient circuits could be created with the availability of a "new" component type?

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
cablepair
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October 19, 2012, 03:45:07 AM
 #1334

its very simple

I'm talking once BFL SC devices start to ship - when the masses start plugging them in and mining with them

if they are getting 1.1 Watts per 1Gh/s or less that Inaba wins the bet.

If they are using more than 1.1 watts per 1Gh/s than I win the bet.

It does not get any simpler than that.

Plenty of BFL customers already have kill-a-watts ready to go - it should not be hard to determine what the actual electrical usage of these devices is, once they start shipping.




Cablez
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October 19, 2012, 03:48:03 AM
 #1335

its very simple

I'm talking once BFL SC devices start to ship - when the masses start plugging them in and mining with them

if they are getting 1.1 Watts per 1Gh/s or less that Inaba wins the bet.

If they are using more than 1.1 watts per 1Gh/s than I win the bet.

It does not get any simpler than that.

Plenty of BFL customers already have kill-a-watts ready to go - it should not be hard to determine what the actual electrical usage of these devices is, once they start shipping.

I would also be wary of input voltages as well. Unless the bASIC is run off of 14V as well.

Tired of substandard power distribution in your ASIC setup???   Chris' Custom Cablez will get you sorted out right!  No job too hard so PM me for a quote
Check my products or ask a question here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74397.0
crazyates
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October 19, 2012, 03:50:54 AM
 #1336

So let's put our money where our mouth is shall we?

According to this:

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/16-Announcement-BFL-ASIC-Release-specifications

BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume 1 Watt of Electricity per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed

(Power figures are +/- 10% of those listed while we finish optimizing our power subsystem.)



Inaba, I will personally bet you 1000 BTC that BFL's line of ASIC devices will consume more electricity than 1.1 watt per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed.
( .1 or (10%) to compensate for that power subsystem optimization)

I am willing to place the bet immediately and deposit the coins with a reputable person to act as escrow however the terms of my bet are as follows:

1) When BFL's line of ASIC's hit the wild they must not consume more than 1.1 watt of electricity per 1Gh/s of Bitcoin mining speed, and according to everything you are telling us 1.1 watts per 1Gh/s is the most electricity they will use.

2) You will no longer post in my thread, if you post in my thread again you automatically lose the bet.

Let me know if your interested in this bet. if your as sure of BFL's efficiency as you say you are than this should be an easy 12k win for you - like I said I'm ready to deposit the coins in an escrow as soon as you are.

I vote that as an exception to point #2, Josh be allowed to post one more time in this thread to confirm his acceptance of this bet, and nothing else.

Tips? 1crazy8pMqgwJ7tX7ZPZmyPwFbc6xZKM9
Previous Trade History - Sale Thread
cablepair
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October 19, 2012, 03:53:57 AM
 #1337

Give Inaba a chance to respond,


If he wants to make the bet than we can figure out all the particulars.

Otherwise its a waste of time (like arguing over simulated electrical usage)


and yes in response to crazyates he is allowed one non-vulgar, non-abusive post to confirm or deny his entry into this bet.






Odi
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October 19, 2012, 04:19:39 AM
 #1338

After a year of quietly mining on 2x5770's, I decided to pre-order a 54GH/s one today with the BTC I mined!  Looking forward to following this thread after not following bitcoin for over 10 months.

Bitcoin is like a variation of Schrödinger's Cat. Everything about it is both scam and fully legit at the same time until you open the box. - ElectricMucus
Inaba
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October 19, 2012, 04:43:26 AM
 #1339

Wow, Tom!  I appreciate your generous offer of free money and I am absolutely delighted to take that bet from you with regards to the accuracy of our respective power estimates (I'll even send you a condolences cake with the proceeds).

However there's a few caveats, which I'm sure you'll agree do not alter the intent of the bet at all:

I will wager that what I've said is true about BFL's power efficiency if you wager that what you've said about your power efficiency is true as well.  You've said that your power will be "competitive."   To commence this bet, you will need to define "competitive."  How many factor increase in power consumption is considered "competitive" against ours?  Twice the power usage?  Three times?  Four?  Is that still "competitive?"  What happens if you're 6x as power hungry as our device?  Do you lose the bet then?  I want to know what you mean by competitive, and until you define that, well... I can't bet on it. 

Honestly though, after you calling me out in your thread, calling me a liar about our power... I want to know why you aren't being honest and open about what you expect your power to be.  It's simply not credible to say you don't know what your estimates are.  Even if you really have no idea at all, how can you then promise it'll be competitive?

Also, the last caveat is that I will not stay out of your thread.  You've been... shall we say... less than truthful about a number of things in your thread and I will be here to call BS when it's required.  But you define competitive and release the stipulation that I stay out of your thread and you've got a bet, cowboy!  I will absolutely wager 1000 BTC against your 1000 BTC any day of the week.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
Inaba
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October 19, 2012, 04:46:06 AM
 #1340

Ok Inaba.

When your fixed cost is extremely low and your initial capital outlay is high, that fixed cost becomes largely irrelevant.

It doesn't matter anyway, because you're deluded if you think any ASIC which will ship in the next couple months will be competitive with future products in three years.

Try doing an Internal Rate of Return and plug in your expected device power usage and then do one with power doubled. You'll see that when all factors are considered, electricity is largely an irrelevant cost.

See, that is the thing you don't seem to understand:  If the device is profitable, it's still competitive.  There's nothing to "upgrade" to after ASIC, so as long as it's profitable, it will be mining.  Ergo, the power is the single most important aspect of an ASIC mining device.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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