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Author Topic: High Efficiency FPGA & ASIC Bitcoin Mining Devices https://BTCFPGA.com  (Read 200720 times)
Bitcoin_Bing
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October 20, 2012, 03:01:57 PM
 #1461

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can keep your dirty little power problem a secret long enough to gain a few more pre-orders before the secret comes out.  Smiley  WTG for transparency.

I also notice you squeaked your way out of the bet, too.  Quality work there!  Won't even back up the bet YOU tried to initiate for charity.



Attitude like this that makes BFL stink. Rotten to the core...

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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October 20, 2012, 03:06:28 PM
 #1462

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can ...
Maybe you can wait until this weekend is over: "and yes I will still release the specs this weekend even if the website launch gets delayed for some reason"

Review of the Spondoolies-Tech SP10 „Dawson“ Bitcoin miner (1.4 TH/s)

[22:35] <Vinnie_win> Did anyone get paid yet? | [22:36] <Isokivi> pirate did!
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October 20, 2012, 03:14:00 PM
 #1463

i hope every seller is like cablepair and Ngzhang  Wink
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October 20, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
 #1464

That's an easy question to answer, Tom.  Because you are lying to your customers.  More specifically, you lied about BFL's power and I called you out.  You are also lying about being "competitive*"  If you had not lied, I wouldn't be here... but there you have it.

Please, prove me wrong, Tom.  Tell us what your "competitive" power is likely to be. While you're at it, please show figures as to how you know BFL's power is impossible.

* For any reasonable value of "competitive"

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 20, 2012, 04:14:02 PM
 #1465

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can keep your dirty little power problem a secret long enough to gain a few more pre-orders before the secret comes out.  Smiley  WTG for transparency.

I also notice you squeaked your way out of the bet, too.  Quality work there!  Won't even back up the bet YOU tried to initiate for charity.



Attitude like this that makes BFL stink. Rotten to the core...

That's probably what "customer service" means over at BFL

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October 20, 2012, 04:17:35 PM
 #1466

That's an easy question to answer, Tom.  Because you are lying to your customers.  More specifically, you lied about BFL's power and I called you out.  You are also lying about being "competitive*"  If you had not lied, I wouldn't be here... but there you have it.

* For any reasonable value of "competitive"


Please show evidence when you accuse someone of lying.

Sure, no problem, here you go:

But guess what? EITHER DO MY COMPETITORS!

Sure I can post a "simulated" or "estimated" power usage number - but its not going to be accurate. You really think BFL is going to give 1Gh/s per watt? keep dreaming.
...
I give you my personal guarantee that our products will have energy efficiency that is competitive to any other ASIC product on the market.

Two lies, same post.  You lied about BFL power and you guarantee your ASIC will be competitive to any other ASIC on the market.  Now, if you are defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other units, well, then I guess you're being honest about it.  But since you refuse to define "competitive" it makes it kind of obvious that you are lying about that as well.



If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 20, 2012, 04:18:15 PM
 #1467

That's an easy question to answer, Tom.  Because you are lying to your customers.  More specifically, you lied about BFL's power and I called you out.  You are also lying about being "competitive*"  If you had not lied, I wouldn't be here... but there you have it.

Please, prove me wrong, Tom.  Tell us what your "competitive" power is likely to be. While you're at it, please show figures as to how you know BFL's power is impossible.

* For any reasonable value of "competitive"


After this recent spate of BFL "customer service" I'm glad I dumped my BFL preorders on some poor saps and loaded up on the bASIC.  BFL has time to troll competitor's threads but not respond to customer emails?  Good riddance BFL.  How's that response from Sonny coming along?  Any day now right?

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October 20, 2012, 04:20:21 PM
 #1468

That's an easy question to answer, Tom.  Because you are lying to your customers.  More specifically, you lied about BFL's power and I called you out.  You are also lying about being "competitive*"  If you had not lied, I wouldn't be here... but there you have it.

* For any reasonable value of "competitive"


Please show evidence when you accuse someone of lying.

Sure, no problem, here you go:

But guess what? EITHER DO MY COMPETITORS!

Sure I can post a "simulated" or "estimated" power usage number - but its not going to be accurate. You really think BFL is going to give 1Gh/s per watt? keep dreaming.
...
I give you my personal guarantee that our products will have energy efficiency that is competitive to any other ASIC product on the market.

Two lies, same post.  You lied about BFL power and you guarantee your ASIC will be competitive to any other ASIC on the market.  Now, if you are defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other units, well, then I guess you're being honest about it.  But since you refuse to define "competitive" it makes it kind of obvious that you are lying about that as well.




1. He is countering speculation with speculation. Until BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designate specifically what competitive means equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.
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October 20, 2012, 04:23:01 PM
 #1469

1. He is countering speculation with speculation. When BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designed what competitive mean equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

As for point number two, if you'll stop and read before flying off and hitting that reply button, you'll understand that I already said that if he's defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other offerings, then it's not a lie.  But the fact that he's refusing to even define what "competitive" means is telling in and of itself.

PS - My job isn't customer service, it's operations.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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October 20, 2012, 04:29:24 PM
 #1470

Josh/BFL I will not engage you on such a childish level.


Instead I will attempt to reach out to Buttefly Labs management and see if I can find an answer to this, maybe we can work out a truce. Maybe they have no idea this kind of behavior is even going on.

In any case, I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If this helps Josh:

I apologize if what I said was wrong, incorrect or abusive to BFL in any way.

I have no idea of the energy efficiency of their products, I was voicing a personal opinion and I could be totally incorrect.

Although I do not know energy efficiency of our end user production boards yet - we do have estimates like everyone else and in my opinion our products will be competitive with other ASIC mining units that are currently for sale, this opinion like all of this other speculation could be incorrect.

I have nothing bad to say about Butterfly Labs what so ever and I encourage anyone who is in the market for an ASIC based Bitcoin mining device to consider Butterfly Labs along with myself, AVALON, and the other companies that are producing similar products. as always do your research and form your own opinion before making an investment such as this.

-Tom
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Bitcoin_Bing
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October 20, 2012, 04:32:12 PM
 #1471

1. He is countering speculation with speculation. When BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designed what competitive mean equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

As for point number two, if you'll stop and read before flying off and hitting that reply button, you'll understand that I already said that if he's defining competitive as some ridiculous multiple of other offerings, then it's not a lie.  But the fact that he's refusing to even define what "competitive" means is telling in and of itself.

PS - My job isn't customer service, it's operations.

Yeah. Your customer service officer is probably not on duty. As always. BFL just do not care about their customers. Unlike Tom who do put in the time and effort to stay in contact and keep his customers up to date.

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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October 20, 2012, 04:37:27 PM
 #1472

Josh/BFL I will not engage you on such a childish level.


Instead I will attempt to reach out to Buttefly Labs management and see if I can find an answer to this, maybe we can work out a truce. Maybe they have no idea this kind of behavior is even going on.

In any case, I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

If this helps Josh:

I apologize if what I said was wrong, incorrect or abusive to BFL in any way.

I have no idea of the energy efficiency of their products, I was voicing a personal opinion and I could be totally incorrect.

Although I do not know energy efficiency of our end user production boards yet - we do have estimates like everyone else and in my opinion our products will be competitive with other ASIC mining units that are currently for sale, this opinion like all of this other speculation could be incorrect.

I have nothing bad to say about Butterfly Labs what so ever and I encourage anyone who is in the market for an ASIC based Bitcoin mining device to consider Butterfly Labs along with myself, AVALON, and the other companies that are producing similar products. as always do your research and form your own opinion before making an investment such as this.

-Tom
BTCFPGA/BitcoinASIC.com







That's what you call accepting competition the healthy way!

+10

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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October 20, 2012, 04:42:09 PM
 #1473

1. He is countering speculation with speculation. When BFL has actual prototype numbers the 1 gh/s per watt is still just speculation not fact.
2. He said it is competitive, how does refusing to designed what competitive mean equal a lie?

Stop trolling. Go do your customer service job instead of trying to ruin what little reputation BFL has left.

Countering speculation with speculation?  How do you figure that?  Can you show me where our power usage is speculation?

I'm sure it's based on the same reliable statistics that you used to get the 1Gh/s @ 20W figure for the FPGA single  Wink
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October 20, 2012, 04:47:17 PM
 #1474

Enough from me for one day.

Just one last thought. I think inaba is destroying his own company's reputation. The little attention seeking whore.

Looking forward to the ASIC way of mining.

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October 20, 2012, 04:52:28 PM
 #1475

I can't thank you guys enough for your support - but I have just spoken to the Bitcointalk Staff and they told me that they are trying to end this argument - and get this thread back on track.

This is something we all (including myself) have to work on.

So please my friends, lets all move forward Smiley

With that being said...

Expect some interesting news, a new web site and more hardware specs this weekend!

... and don't forget the winner of week #3 contest will be chosen and week #4 contest starts tomorrow!

Thank you for everyone's support.

I will be back later.

Tom
(315) 514-0269

In case anyone forgot (I almost did) this is the official announcement, customer service and support thread for BTCFPGA High Efficiency Bitcoin Mining products.

lol
Tongue Tongue Tongue

bbl Smiley
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October 20, 2012, 04:59:00 PM
 #1476

Enough from me for one day.

Just one last thought. I think inaba is destroying his own company's reputation. The little attention seeking whore.

No one denied my speculation of Inaba secretly working for Tom... 

M

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October 20, 2012, 05:27:05 PM
 #1477

Inaba has turning this into a spitting contest, which Tom has wisely decided to stay out of. However, Tom did start this whole ordeal, and I actually felt it was appropriate for Inaba to reply (the first time). I've said it before: Inaba's greatest flaw here on the forums is he doesn't know when to stop and let things go.

5 days later, this troll fest is now >20% of Tom's thread.

As I have stated before our production boards are not completed yet, and therefore I do not have solid power consumption numbers yet.

But guess what? EITHER DO MY COMPETITORS!

Sure I can post a "simulated" or "estimated" power usage number - but its not going to be accurate. You really think BFL is going to give 1Gh/s per watt? keep dreaming.

These energy efficiency numbers from my competitors are simply estimates and are not going to be accurate. I give you my personal guarantee that our products will have energy efficiency that is competitive to any other ASIC product on the market.

Normally I wouldn't be posting in your thread, but since you called BFL out directly I figured it was an invite.  I'm a little confused here, Tom, so maybe you can enlighten me.  You say you are far enough along in your process to have prototype boards (or was it production boards?) arriving in your hands this week or next week... yet you can't give any power numbers?  If your crack team of engineers that are designing this are so great, they should have some power estimates, within a reasonable margin (say +/- 10%? 20%?) that you could give out, right?  Why aren't you publishing these numbers with the caveat that they are estimates?  Do you actually have numbers or are you not as far along in the process as you'd like people to believe?  

You say you guarantee your device will be competitive with any other ASIC on the market.  What is competitive?  Can you define that for everyone?  Is it 2x the power consumption?  Is that still "competitive" or what does the value of "competitive" mean to you?

Here's what I think your customers deserve:

1. A power estimate, even with the understanding that may be off a bit.
2. A guarantee that if your power estimates are in fact not competitive with other products, you will offer unlimited refunds (Just like BFL did when the FPGA power consumption turned out to be wrong).

A power estimate should not be a problem if you have the excellent engineers you say you have.  They should already have pretty accurate power estimates and you should be aware of them.  Why not be open about it?   Maybe guaranteeing refunds to people if your power turns out to be non competitive would go a long way towards easing peoples concerns that you're hiding something in order to collect orders from the naive.  After all, once difficulty matures, the difference could determine whether reasonable payback is even possible or not.

For my part, I'm sure you have a competitive power envelope but the fact that you aren't stepping up to share estimates with the rest of the community while everyone else has may give people reason to doubt.  

Once again, sorry to step into your thread, but since you called us out directly, I felt it appropriate to respond.

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October 20, 2012, 06:16:54 PM
 #1478

Haha good job sweeping that pesky "power" issue under the rug, Tom!  Maybe you can keep your dirty little power problem a secret long enough to gain a few more pre-orders before the secret comes out.  Smiley  WTG for transparency.

I also notice you squeaked your way out of the bet, too.  Quality work there!  Won't even back up the bet YOU tried to initiate for charity.


?

I don't recall Tom having offered the money to charity? You were the only one who did that.

Condition 1: His bet was about whether you (as in BFL) would come out under 1.1 watts per Gh/s....

AND

Condition 2: Stay out of this thread until that was proven....

-------------------------

If both condition was met as true, he would fork over 1000 BTC to you. (or BFL)

If either condition was false, you would fork over 1000BTC to him.

-------------------------

Thats what I read in this thread over the last ~5 pages~.

You then rejected his offer based on the second clause of having to leave this thread until the first condition was proven true or false.

You made a counter proposal to Tom after you turned his down. He must prove his power figures are competitive with BFLs product and you would not be staying out of his thread.

------------------------

Then you opened a thread on BitCoinTalk, announcing, you would suddenly be donating 1000BTC to charity if you "won the bet". Though Tom has already rejected your bet. He decided to announce his power figures or other device specification on schedule as he had planned weeks in advance.

(Still unclear as it is still developing on your part)

As a result of your thread over "which charity" would win the [supposed] spoils of a bet that was already rejected before the thread was ever even opened....you started a spirited argument/debate over which charity is ti be "blessed" by BFL.

Then just today, not inconsistent with actual events, you announce that you never expected Tom to accept the bet....and....therefore you had no actual intention to go through with the bet that was already rejected before the thread started.

Now you have changed your tune to the cost of 1000 BTC. You have now stated you will donate 1000 BTC to charity despite the fact that Tom would never accept the bet.

------------------------------

You know Inaba, you really need to think these things through before you act. You even made me look away in disgust at the charity thing. Because your playing with peoples hearts. Thats like playing a game over which orphanage is lucky enough to be blessed and which one isn't.

You tried to create goodwill among members despite already knowing and expecting that the bet would never even get off the ground. VERY DISTURBING behavior....

Whats worse is doing it when you know the other party has already rejected your bet and therefore there is no point in taking suggestions over which charity will reap the rewards. You are probably gonna blast me to kingdom come for pointing this out.

But you haven't yet, and I assume it is because you hope no one actually paid any attention to what lead to the thread being posted.

Now you have to explain to your boss why you need to give away 1000 BTC on the company dime.

---------------------------

You know your company has at least 1 million in capital. So that means even if you started out aiming for 110nm...when the influx of orders and money came in you could have easily have asked the right people for a significant die shrink.

Based on your confidence, your company is probably using a very expensive process node. Which means your power figures are closer to 30 or 40 watts. You would likely have won Toms bet without a sweat.

The charity thing....as you played it was ultra bad PR.

Especially in light of the offer already being rejected. You asked people to talk over hot air and a premise that would never be. Only now, are you changing your tune and justifying a sudden large payment to charity despite the bet being rejected.

Na, I knew Tom would chicken out and run back into his hole, so it was largely irrelevant as far as Tom goes.  I'm offering 1000 BTC on behalf of BFL regardless of what Tom does.  I never expected Tom to honor the intent of his bet anyway (Simply because he had no intention of going through with it from the start), so it was largely altruistic on my part to begin with, but only in so far as I don't think I will have to pay up and I know Tom would... but I'm more than willing to escrow the amount until such time as is required.


Someone needs to get your boss's email and efax him pages of your conversation. You have a way of somehow rubbing people the wrong way. Whatever the cost is in reputation, you boss should know you are costing him money. No matter what kind of person he may be, he would be hopping mad if he heard about this affair.

You succeeded [somehow] in making people walk away with extra capital for your company. God help you if your current customers have any problems with the hardware. You're the first in ASIC technology. The last in any reasonable sense of treating people with "the right touch".

You really have no idea how to deal with people. Your situation management is 10 times worse.
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October 20, 2012, 06:50:49 PM
 #1479

I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware.

Consider that if you order a bASIC today, your order will likely ship out with the first batch, whereas if you instead order the mentioned competing product, your order will likely have to wait in the queue a good while after shipping begins before being shipped out.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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October 20, 2012, 07:28:41 PM
 #1480

I were still deciding which of the two ASIC units I should get myself. BFL or Tom's hardware.

Consider that if you order a bASIC today, your order will likely ship out with the first batch, whereas if you instead order the mentioned competing product, your order will likely have to wait in the queue a good while after shipping begins before being shipped out.
Nope, untrue.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
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