CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded GPU kernels.

[bensam1231]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day 

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

It's human nature and it will be done whether I do it or not. It's up to the coins to have a difficulty retargetting
algorithm that can compensate for drastic changes in in network hash rate caused by profit switching multipools.
I know I'm talking about minig, not exchange rate but hey are linked. Diff is low, multipools jump in, score a pile
of coins and dump them on the market driving the price down.

I dpn't know why coin diff swings so wildly if it just stayed stable, moving by fractions to compensate for changes
in hash rate. If they don't make dramatic changes in diff the multipools won't be jumping in and out, the net hash
will be stable and so will the price, or the price will be driven by other factors.

It's just a matter of adapting to the environment.

I guarantee you that Vanilla isn't on a multipool yet due to the weird algo it uses. That being said, multipools are really no different then miners. Miners mine whatever is most profitable and profitability changes based on difficulty. If you sit on a coin for like 24hr it'll start to normalize with a multipool and all the other coins.

That being said there aren't many multipools available for altcoins anymore. Haspower.co is one of the few that does weird algos and it's not super popular. Multipools sorta ended with Scrypt. Nicehash could qualify as a multipool as well as the bots running on it usually target whatever is most profitable, it does the same thing. Since it's not run by one person either, that means it gets any of the small coins that everyone else misses.

Nicehash was really what ruined mining for most small miners, mainly the fact that it's just run by a handful of people with good pricing bots and it's impossible for a normal user to use anything but fixed orders. And even fixed orders are now being run by bots too.

And yup, miners will dump on exchanges because that's what they do. Don't expect miners to be investors.

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[pallas]

This time I completely agree with bensam.
The market will reach a balance when only people with private miners or very cheap electricity can mine at a profit (stably enough thru time).
That's why you need to be very smart to make money, if you are a small miner.
I managed to make profit stably since I started, that's the proof it's possible.

[djm34]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

[pattanan]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

Totally agreed with djm34 on that point.  It seems like those who "dump" the coin faster than others, while the value was high, will earn more... which is kinna sad...

[tbearhere]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day 

CUDAMINER THREAD--

Somewhere in CBuchner's CudaMiner thread (all 1100+ pages of it) a miner said, "...every coin we talk about becomes unprofitable..." .It is the nature of the beast.       --scryptr

Yup 

[bensam1231]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

What do you think happens when the US prints money each and every year then spends it? or any country for that matter? You can even look at coins that are successful, like Darkcoin for instance. It gets dumped on a daily basis as well.

It's the price of using the coin, some coins can support it if they have the community and the coins being minted don't overload the buy support and the people who want to actually use the coin.

I think you don't understand why miners get paid a fee for mining. It's a trade of service. It costs electricity. Miners pay their bills and hopefully have something left over. These are the basics of a operating coin.

That aside, coins don't have a infinite supply. They're a pie. The more people mining, the less coins per person, that's what difficulty is.

[sp_]

only in crypto guys:

AsiaCoin AsiaCoin (AC)
$ 0.009940 (+2012.45 %)

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/asiacoin/

[tbearhere]

only in crypto guys:

AsiaCoin AsiaCoin (AC)
$ 0.009940 (+2012.45 %)

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/asiacoin/

Wow what a pump.
EDIT: nope only a mini pump.

[hashbrown9000]

they are all mini pumps

[djm34]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

What do you think happens when the US prints money each and every year then spends it? or any country for that matter? You can even look at coins that are successful, like Darkcoin for instance. It gets dumped on a daily basis as well.

It's the price of using the coin, some coins can support it if they have the community and the coins being minted don't overload the buy support and the people who want to actually use the coin.

I think you don't understand why miners get paid a fee for mining. It's a trade of service. It costs electricity. Miners pay their bills and hopefully have something left over. These are the basics of a operating coin.

That aside, coins don't have a infinite supply. They're a pie. The more people mining, the less coins per person, that's what difficulty is.

Dash doesn't get pumped on a daily basis, it gets traded (that's the big difference with new and old altcoin). Mining a stable coin like dash is different from mining some of the coins around. The problem is that the rule is applied to any coin, a new coin going through that process just get killed before it can stabilize, meaning dumping such coins, just destroy your source of profit.

I understand very well what miners are paid for, but when miner are stupid enough to sell below their profitability margin, then I don't understand.
Their is a crisis in France where meat producers where they are forced to sell their product below their margins (this probably could have been avoided through better trade and union... but hey...) while cereal producers usually when the price is too low, they _wait_ and sell when the price is higher (as they can store them)... I think you belong to the second category, if you don't see where is your advantage you are a moron and you will just continue to blame devs and private miners for killing the price... Because at the end, you will complain as well, that's the irony in all that system. You have the mean to influence on the market, but you still prefer to complain when you dump for ridiculous value because others did the same...

Coins can be considered as having infinite supplies, because most of them will be dead before reaching their first halving (if they have any planned), the difficulty doesn't do to the price either, because you are not able to hold your freaking coins... so even when the supply/miner decrease, the price continues to fall...

anyway, you are mining, I am not   I just make miners, your funeral  

[scryptr]

ZOOMBIE MINERS---

Zoombie miners will eat your brains.   BRAIN HASH!!!  MMM, mmmmmmmm, goood!       --scryptr

[joblo]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

What do you think happens when the US prints money each and every year then spends it? or any country for that matter? You can even look at coins that are successful, like Darkcoin for instance. It gets dumped on a daily basis as well.

It's the price of using the coin, some coins can support it if they have the community and the coins being minted don't overload the buy support and the people who want to actually use the coin.

I think you don't understand why miners get paid a fee for mining. It's a trade of service. It costs electricity. Miners pay their bills and hopefully have something left over. These are the basics of a operating coin.

That aside, coins don't have a infinite supply. They're a pie. The more people mining, the less coins per person, that's what difficulty is.

Dash doesn't get pumped on a daily basis, it gets traded (that's the big difference with new and old altcoin). Mining a stable coin like dash is different from mining some of the coins around. The problem is that the rule is applied to any coin, a new coin going through that process just get killed before it can stabilize, meaning dumping such coins, just destroy your source of profit.

I understand very well what miners are paid for, but when miner are stupid enough to sell below their profitability margin, then I don't understand.
Their is a crisis in France where meat producers where they are forced to sell their product below their margins (this probably could have been avoided through better trade and union... but hey...) while cereal producers usually when the price is too low, they _wait_ and sell when the price is higher (as they can store them)... I think you belong to the second category, if you don't see where is your advantage you are a moron and you will just continue to blame devs and private miners for killing the price... Because at the end, you will complain as well, that's the irony in all that system. You have the mean to influence on the market, but you still prefer to complain when you dump for ridiculous value because others did the same...

Coins can be considered as having infinite supplies, because most of them will be dead before reaching their first halving (if they have any planned), the difficulty doesn't do to the price either, because you are not able to hold your freaking coins... so even when the supply/miner decrease, the price continues to fall...

anyway, you are mining, I am not   I just make miners, your funeral  

Coins get pumped because they are too small. It's not just a matter of time to stabilize but their design. Low diff, low value
coins seem to be intended for excessive speculation and manipulation, much like the junior mining in Canada, as I mentioned
once before.

Another analogy with real mining is the constant supply of new product. Gold is continuously being mined and every ounce
that has ever been mined still exists. We have to face the facts that mining altcoins is like the goldrush. And advancement
in mining technology (software in the case of altcoins) is also part of the game and not everyone gets the latest technology.
If you look at the history of many companies they originated as technology companies with a monopoly so they could
market their products at an advantage over the competition that didn't have the technology. It's no different than private miners.
Some  develop their own  technology organically and some "investors" buy technology.

Ad far as Nicehash goes, it was certainly a disruptive force but unlike most multipools it has it's own rhythm which is good
for profit switching. Sometimes Nicehash pays higher than multipools sometimes lower. Multipools have disappeared
because they have become a commodity. Every pool is almost identical. They have mostly the same algos, same coins
and same profit swings, and now even the same interface, but it's a good one. Hashpower and zpool are no different
than yaamp was. The "alternative:" pools succeed because they have found a niche. Some are agressive with new coins,
some focus  on niche algos like cryptonight, I don't know why not's not on any multipools.

Nimbleness is becomking a desireable feature in altcoins. The ability to shoift algos means they will stay ahead of
the race toward asics. There no point in developping an asic for x11 if coins can just switch to x13 or x11v2 or whatever.

Some coins adapt like vert switching from lyra2re to lyra2rev2 (there's actually a lyra2 that is not the same as lyra2re,
and probably a lyra1 also).

I don't understand the use for merged mining. For one the merged coin is usually valueless and for another profit switchers
can simply adjust to the profitablity of the coins combined. Ules you use autoexchange to dump it's also another wallet
to manage and another coin to find on an exchange. It's like mining for gold and also finding lead.  Forget the lead, go
for the gold.

[bensam1231]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day  

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

What do you think happens when the US prints money each and every year then spends it? or any country for that matter? You can even look at coins that are successful, like Darkcoin for instance. It gets dumped on a daily basis as well.

It's the price of using the coin, some coins can support it if they have the community and the coins being minted don't overload the buy support and the people who want to actually use the coin.

I think you don't understand why miners get paid a fee for mining. It's a trade of service. It costs electricity. Miners pay their bills and hopefully have something left over. These are the basics of a operating coin.

That aside, coins don't have a infinite supply. They're a pie. The more people mining, the less coins per person, that's what difficulty is.

Dash doesn't get pumped on a daily basis, it gets traded (that's the big difference with new and old altcoin). Mining a stable coin like dash is different from mining some of the coins around. The problem is that the rule is applied to any coin, a new coin going through that process just get killed before it can stabilize, meaning dumping such coins, just destroy your source of profit.

I understand very well what miners are paid for, but when miner are stupid enough to sell below their profitability margin, then I don't understand.
Their is a crisis in France where meat producers where they are forced to sell their product below their margins (this probably could have been avoided through better trade and union... but hey...) while cereal producers usually when the price is too low, they _wait_ and sell when the price is higher (as they can store them)... I think you belong to the second category, if you don't see where is your advantage you are a moron and you will just continue to blame devs and private miners for killing the price... Because at the end, you will complain as well, that's the irony in all that system. You have the mean to influence on the market, but you still prefer to complain when you dump for ridiculous value because others did the same...

Coins can be considered as having infinite supplies, because most of them will be dead before reaching their first halving (if they have any planned), the difficulty doesn't do to the price either, because you are not able to hold your freaking coins... so even when the supply/miner decrease, the price continues to fall...

anyway, you are mining, I am not   I just make miners, your funeral  

I don't think at any point I have been talking about pump and dumping shitcoins whose sole purpose is arguably just for the initial jump in price followed by a dump. These coins usually have large IPOs and/or premines.

I agree dumping small coins is a bad deal, that's generally why miners usually stay away from small coins... Small coins are largely unprofitable as well so it doesn't pay to go near them, in addition to wrecking difficulty and them being highly speculative (very easy to get burned). I don't think at any point here we were talking about new small little coins that barely get on exchanges. Vanilla for instance has 12 BTC per day in volume and is a very mature coin, which is where this started from.

Miners generally DON'T sell below profitability. If a coin is unprofitable, they mine something else and difficulty goes back down. Once again you're confusing the mining process with people who are supporting the coin. Miners generally speaking aren't supporters, they keep a coin alive. Investors who want to use the coin because they think they'll make more or because they want to trade it buy from miners and hold or sell at a later time. It's a burn process, although at this time it seems as though you really had no idea what you're talking about and you're trying to weasel around a bit to sound like you know what you were talking about.

Making a product like 'meat' has nothing to do with mining or minting new coins. You can't switch businesses on a whim in the real world. The choice there is to sell at a loss or toss your product, assuming you have money left over to burn while you wait for the market to climb again. Miners don't have that problem. Miners essentially can produce any kind of 'product' they want to with the only overhead being electricity, which varies. That being said 'meat' is very vague as there is a lot of different businesses along the chain between raising cattle and when you find meat in a supermarket (also assuming we aren't talking about frozen food, even then there is burn cost)... and if we're going to throw around insults, you're a idiot to think miners who use GPUs are locked into only mining one kind of 'product' and therefore have to hold.

That is generally why it's bad to buy ASICs or buy hardware for any one thing... Say if only one coin is profitable, like Ethereum, so you buy a AMD rig because it's quite lucrative at the time. Some people in this thread noted doing it. IF Ethereum goes in the shitter, there is very little choice there between shutting down your rigs (once a coin hits equilibrium with electricity, people stop mining because they lose money) or hopefully purchasing a kernel from Wolf0.

I think you're confusing me with dead coins as well. I don't mine dead coins, I don't mine brand new coins either. Most coins die not because miners dump, but rather because they have no purpose and once people realize that all the bag holders dump them. Some coins, such as Burst for instance, are really cool, but it was just a community holding hands in hope something new and different would happen... It never did and it crashed and burned. Community holding hands only works for so long if there is no buy support or way to burn them. PoS has the same problem. People mint coins with a wallet... They eventually want to make money on those coins. If the coin isn't going anywhere and it loses buy support, the coin crashes and burns. It doesn't matter if it's PoW or PoS.

"Coins can be considered as having infinite supplies, because most of them will be dead before reaching their first halving"

No, that doesn't make sense. Nice try attempting to weasel out of that one. You are neither talking about infinite or a supply.

Yup I am a miner and it doesn't seem like you'd last long if you were. I've mentioned numerous times I stay away from small coins. Heck I've even announced coins that are profitable in this thread (when have I pointed out a super small coin?). Part of being a miner is matching the coin to the amount of hashpower you have and Vanillacoin is a pretty hardy coin, which is where this all came from.

Ad far as Nicehash goes, it was certainly a disruptive force but unlike most multipools it has it's own rhythm which is good
for profit switching. Sometimes Nicehash pays higher than multipools sometimes lower. Multipools have disappeared
because they have become a commodity. Every pool is almost identical. They have mostly the same algos, same coins
and same profit swings, and now even the same interface, but it's a good one. Hashpower and zpool are no different
than yaamp was. The "alternative:" pools succeed because they have found a niche. Some are agressive with new coins,
some focus  on niche algos like cryptonight, I don't know why not's not on any multipools.

I don't understand the use for merged mining. For one the merged coin is usually valueless and for another profit switchers
can simply adjust to the profitablity of the coins combined. Ules you use autoexchange to dump it's also another wallet
to manage and another coin to find on an exchange. It's like mining for gold and also finding lead.  Forget the lead, go
for the gold.

I'm not sure what you mean by it's own 'rhythm'. Largely Nicehash is played by bots with the exception of occasional fixed orders made by real people and even then fixed orders are run by bots as well. Those bots have their own profitability load balancing algo running across the backside, which is almost identical to a multipool. They mine the best coins or whatever will earn them the most money, which includes mining to multiple multipools.

Nicehash is literally the biggest multipool of them all. It 'crowd sources' multipool mining to anyone that can come up with a more profitable alternative to known coins. Essentially making no coin safe unless it uses a algo that is not found there (which is quite rare). That is the eventuality we reached and when the whole 'miners holding' as speculation died out.


Merged mining helps distribute the costs of PoW while still maintaining network security and stability. PoW coins all generally equalize around the same price point, depending on how desirable the coin is. More desirable coins will be more profitable to mine because the buy support and how many people purchasing the coin will outweigh the burn cost of PoW.

[myagui]

Miners generally speaking aren't supporters, they keep a coin alive.

That's an oxymoron bensam. If miners are keeping a coin alive, they are most definitely supporters.

Generally speaking, it's quite funny how all this mining talk casually ignores the fact that PoW is a race to the bottom. People complaining about small mining profits, would do better to just stop mining, and focus their energies elsewhere. Ah well, I'm probably just at the wrong thread...

[bensam1231]

Miners generally speaking aren't supporters, they keep a coin alive.

That's an oxymoron bensam. If miners are keeping a coin alive, they are most definitely supporters.

Generally speaking, it's quite funny how all this mining talk casually ignores the fact that PoW is a race to the bottom. People complaining about small mining profits, would do better to just stop mining, and focus their energies elsewhere. Ah well, I'm probably just at the wrong thread...

Sure and it was meant to sound that way. Because they are a drain on the coin, but at the same time they make sure the network doesn't fall apart. It's a bought service. Miners are a oxymoron. XD

Not sure how GPU mining is characterized by a 'race to the bottom'. Just like miners aren't responsible for 'pump and dumps'. Coins can become more profitable while still minting the same amount of coins per day (relatively speaking). Minting is a controlled release.

[djm34]

wish these coins would stay profitable for more than a day 

Just shows you how many miners are out there. Vanilla was great for about half a day, then people hopped off of other big coins or ones with private miners (like x11) and wrecked it, then they went back to their more profitable private miners.

if people weren't dumping like crazy right after mining, it would profitable longer...
hence stop dumping... have some vtc, it went several time from not profitable to very profitable, if you are patient enough
you can get an interesting deal... that the way altcoins work, but since a year it is the "dump directly on exchange" which seems to prevail hence the low profit... well sorry but this is a bit on you... (please spare me the "I have electricity bill to pay..." which isn't a good excuse...

It's not profitable UNLESS you exchange them for BTC. Otherwise you're just a bag holder. Artificial coin pricing based on people not selling coins is not a market you want to be in (happened with Burst). That means when people sell, the whole market will collapse. The coin will equalize at whatever the daily mine rate is for the coin, minus buy support. Which is usually about the same for all coins as the market and mining profitability equalizes.

The only people the coin would stay profitable for if people held coins are the people actually selling. It's a good way to screw over your fellow miners.

I have electricity to pay for is a great excuse. Miners don't mine to be bag holders. They aren't investors, that's a completely different job title. Investors buy the coin and hold it for value to increase.

and why "investors" would buy a coin which gets dumped on a daily basis, by miners ? I mean you realize there is no point in investing in something which loses value on a daily basis, because people like you aren't able to hold a little.
To keep a profitable offer, you can't have infinite supply... that's seems pretty logical to me.

You completely miss the point actually... and that's the reason why many coins went to POS, to avoid moronic miners like you... and quite frankly you are the one getting hurt in the process... because investors stop investing and you are the losing money in electricity... anyway, this is basic economy...

What do you think happens when the US prints money each and every year then spends it? or any country for that matter? You can even look at coins that are successful, like Darkcoin for instance. It gets dumped on a daily basis as well.

It's the price of using the coin, some coins can support it if they have the community and the coins being minted don't overload the buy support and the people who want to actually use the coin.

I think you don't understand why miners get paid a fee for mining. It's a trade of service. It costs electricity. Miners pay their bills and hopefully have something left over. These are the basics of a operating coin.

That aside, coins don't have a infinite supply. They're a pie. The more people mining, the less coins per person, that's what difficulty is.

Dash doesn't get pumped on a daily basis, it gets traded (that's the big difference with new and old altcoin). Mining a stable coin like dash is different from mining some of the coins around. The problem is that the rule is applied to any coin, a new coin going through that process just get killed before it can stabilize, meaning dumping such coins, just destroy your source of profit.

I understand very well what miners are paid for, but when miner are stupid enough to sell below their profitability margin, then I don't understand.
Their is a crisis in France where meat producers where they are forced to sell their product below their margins (this probably could have been avoided through better trade and union... but hey...) while cereal producers usually when the price is too low, they _wait_ and sell when the price is higher (as they can store them)... I think you belong to the second category, if you don't see where is your advantage you are a moron and you will just continue to blame devs and private miners for killing the price... Because at the end, you will complain as well, that's the irony in all that system. You have the mean to influence on the market, but you still prefer to complain when you dump for ridiculous value because others did the same...

Coins can be considered as having infinite supplies, because most of them will be dead before reaching their first halving (if they have any planned), the difficulty doesn't do to the price either, because you are not able to hold your freaking coins... so even when the supply/miner decrease, the price continues to fall...

anyway, you are mining, I am not  I just make miners, your funeral 

Coins get pumped because they are too small. It's not just a matter of time to stabilize but their design. Low diff, low value
coins seem to be intended for excessive speculation and manipulation, much like the junior mining in Canada, as I mentioned
once before.

Another analogy with real mining is the constant supply of new product. Gold is continuously being mined and every ounce
that has ever been mined still exists. We have to face the facts that mining altcoins is like the goldrush. And advancement
in mining technology (software in the case of altcoins) is also part of the game and not everyone gets the latest technology.
If you look at the history of many companies they originated as technology companies with a monopoly so they could
market their products at an advantage over the competition that didn't have the technology. It's no different than private miners.
Some  develop their own  technology organically and some "investors" buy technology.

Ad far as Nicehash goes, it was certainly a disruptive force but unlike most multipools it has it's own rhythm which is good
for profit switching. Sometimes Nicehash pays higher than multipools sometimes lower. Multipools have disappeared
because they have become a commodity. Every pool is almost identical. They have mostly the same algos, same coins
and same profit swings, and now even the same interface, but it's a good one. Hashpower and zpool are no different
than yaamp was. The "alternative:" pools succeed because they have found a niche. Some are agressive with new coins,
some focus  on niche algos like cryptonight, I don't know why not's not on any multipools.

Nimbleness is becomking a desireable feature in altcoins. The ability to shoift algos means they will stay ahead of
the race toward asics. There no point in developping an asic for x11 if coins can just switch to x13 or x11v2 or whatever.

Some coins adapt like vert switching from lyra2re to lyra2rev2 (there's actually a lyra2 that is not the same as lyra2re,
and probably a lyra1 also).

I don't understand the use for merged mining. For one the merged coin is usually valueless and for another profit switchers
can simply adjust to the profitablity of the coins combined. Ules you use autoexchange to dump it's also another wallet
to manage and another coin to find on an exchange. It's like mining for gold and also finding lead.  Forget the lead, go
for the gold.

You don't understand merged mining because you don't understand why mining exists. The point of it is to secure the coin, not make money on a P & D and move onto the next shitcoin.

+1 (couldn't say it better)

[djm34]

Miners generally speaking aren't supporters, they keep a coin alive.

That's an oxymoron bensam.

I would personally remove oxy from that sentence

[bensam1231]

Coins get pumped because they are too small. It's not just a matter of time to stabilize but their design. Low diff, low value
coins seem to be intended for excessive speculation and manipulation, much like the junior mining in Canada, as I mentioned
once before.

Another analogy with real mining is the constant supply of new product. Gold is continuously being mined and every ounce
that has ever been mined still exists. We have to face the facts that mining altcoins is like the goldrush. And advancement
in mining technology (software in the case of altcoins) is also part of the game and not everyone gets the latest technology.
If you look at the history of many companies they originated as technology companies with a monopoly so they could
market their products at an advantage over the competition that didn't have the technology. It's no different than private miners.
Some  develop their own  technology organically and some "investors" buy technology.

Ad far as Nicehash goes, it was certainly a disruptive force but unlike most multipools it has it's own rhythm which is good
for profit switching. Sometimes Nicehash pays higher than multipools sometimes lower. Multipools have disappeared
because they have become a commodity. Every pool is almost identical. They have mostly the same algos, same coins
and same profit swings, and now even the same interface, but it's a good one. Hashpower and zpool are no different
than yaamp was. The "alternative:" pools succeed because they have found a niche. Some are agressive with new coins,
some focus  on niche algos like cryptonight, I don't know why not's not on any multipools.

Nimbleness is becomking a desireable feature in altcoins. The ability to shoift algos means they will stay ahead of
the race toward asics. There no point in developping an asic for x11 if coins can just switch to x13 or x11v2 or whatever.

Some coins adapt like vert switching from lyra2re to lyra2rev2 (there's actually a lyra2 that is not the same as lyra2re,
and probably a lyra1 also).

I don't understand the use for merged mining. For one the merged coin is usually valueless and for another profit switchers
can simply adjust to the profitablity of the coins combined. Ules you use autoexchange to dump it's also another wallet
to manage and another coin to find on an exchange. It's like mining for gold and also finding lead.  Forget the lead, go
for the gold.

You don't understand merged mining because you don't understand why mining exists. The point of it is to secure the coin, not make money on a P & D and move onto the next shitcoin.

+1 (couldn't say it better)

You know he's not responding to me, right? XD

Pump and dumps have nothing to do with miners. They're fast money scams made by shitcoins usually with large IPOs. It really has nothing to do with miners as they don't do the pumping. Even if miners sell their coins daily (once again not anything remotely relating to a pump and dump), it'll be a gradual release over time and will be compensated with market activity and equalize, unless it's a shitcoin that has massive rewards at the beginning and the mine period lasts like a week. Small coins aren't even worth mining because even if you dumped all the coins mined on a daily basis, you still wouldn't net a profit due to the low coin value.

Miners generally speaking aren't supporters, they keep a coin alive.

That's an oxymoron bensam. If miners are keeping a coin alive, they are most definitely supporters.

Generally speaking, it's quite funny how all this mining talk casually ignores the fact that PoW is a race to the bottom. People complaining about small mining profits, would do better to just stop mining, and focus their energies elsewhere. Ah well, I'm probably just at the wrong thread...

Sure and it was meant to sound that way. Because they are a drain on the coin, but at the same time they make sure the network doesn't fall apart. It's a bought service. Miners are a oxymoron. XD

Not sure how GPU mining is characterized by a 'race to the bottom'. Just like miners aren't responsible for 'pump and dumps'. Coins can become more profitable while still minting the same amount of coins per day (relatively speaking). Minting is a controlled release.

Mining is a race to the bottom, dude. GPU mining is a phase of mining that passes if the coin grows enough.

Oh yeah, that's why BTC is still being mined? Not every coin switches to PoS. It's only a 'phase' for some coins, for others it'll last the entirety of the coin. Not sure you guys understand what a race to the bottom is and definitely doesn't apply here, much like pump and dump does not apply to mining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/a-race-to-or-for-the-bottom

[djm34]

Coins get pumped because they are too small. It's not just a matter of time to stabilize but their design. Low diff, low value
coins seem to be intended for excessive speculation and manipulation, much like the junior mining in Canada, as I mentioned
once before.

Another analogy with real mining is the constant supply of new product. Gold is continuously being mined and every ounce
that has ever been mined still exists. We have to face the facts that mining altcoins is like the goldrush. And advancement
in mining technology (software in the case of altcoins) is also part of the game and not everyone gets the latest technology.
If you look at the history of many companies they originated as technology companies with a monopoly so they could
market their products at an advantage over the competition that didn't have the technology. It's no different than private miners.
Some  develop their own  technology organically and some "investors" buy technology.

Ad far as Nicehash goes, it was certainly a disruptive force but unlike most multipools it has it's own rhythm which is good
for profit switching. Sometimes Nicehash pays higher than multipools sometimes lower. Multipools have disappeared
because they have become a commodity. Every pool is almost identical. They have mostly the same algos, same coins
and same profit swings, and now even the same interface, but it's a good one. Hashpower and zpool are no different
than yaamp was. The "alternative:" pools succeed because they have found a niche. Some are agressive with new coins,
some focus  on niche algos like cryptonight, I don't know why not's not on any multipools.

Nimbleness is becomking a desireable feature in altcoins. The ability to shoift algos means they will stay ahead of
the race toward asics. There no point in developping an asic for x11 if coins can just switch to x13 or x11v2 or whatever.

Some coins adapt like vert switching from lyra2re to lyra2rev2 (there's actually a lyra2 that is not the same as lyra2re,
and probably a lyra1 also).

I don't understand the use for merged mining. For one the merged coin is usually valueless and for another profit switchers
can simply adjust to the profitablity of the coins combined. Ules you use autoexchange to dump it's also another wallet
to manage and another coin to find on an exchange. It's like mining for gold and also finding lead.  Forget the lead, go
for the gold.

You don't understand merged mining because you don't understand why mining exists. The point of it is to secure the coin, not make money on a P & D and move onto the next shitcoin.

+1 (couldn't say it better)

You know he's not responding to me, right? XD

You know not everything is about you either   (still agree with Wolf0)

[myagui]

Oh yeah, that's why BTC is still being mined? Not every coin switches to PoS. It's only a 'phase' for some coins, for others it'll last the entirety of the coin. Not sure you guys understand what a race to the bottom is and definitely doesn't apply here, much like pump and dump does not apply to mining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/a-race-to-or-for-the-bottom

I prefer the wikipedia take on the same expression, both on the economics/efficiency standpoint as well as the banana example, but I agree that my interpretation might be too liberal for some.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_to_the_bottom

I would summarize by stating that the mining competition naturally drives the overall profit opportunity downwards.
This happens both quantitatively (with more miners competing, there's less profits for each/all of them) as well as qualitatively (each new miner improvement - hardware or software - further denies profits to all the existing miners that do not enjoy the same improvement).