BitBay |Decentralized Marketplace|Smart Contracts|IoT Tech|Markets Open

[tyler27]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

[RiverBoatBTC]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

[Bobsurplus]

So take for example I wanted to buy something for 10k USD I have to put 20k Down? No way... No way not happening.

Pretty sure if you polled the community as a whole they would not go for this either.

Yea, pretty absurd...  Will limit the market to people selling DOGE tshirts.   

If you're selling a doge tshirt and cant cover the 20$ for the deposit then you dont deserve to be in business..

[qawzsx]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

[tyler27]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

It was just to point out that everybody is ignorant in some niche...as you are in the Paypal niche. Using the word "ignorance" in every sentence won't change the fact that you have somehow the illusion to not be an ignorant. Anyway, that's a discussion of another level.

[qawzsx]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

It was just to point out that everybody is ignorant in some niche...as you are in the Paypal niche. Using the word "ignorance" in every sentence won't change the fact that you have somehow the illusion to not be an ignorant. Anyway, that's a discussion of another level.

How am I ignorant in paypal niche? I used the fucking "" for fuck sake yet you are still playing smart ass? Or are you that stupid?

[RJF]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

It was just to point out that everybody is ignorant in some niche...as you are in the Paypal niche. Using the word "ignorance" in every sentence won't change the fact that you have somehow the illusion to not be an ignorant. Anyway, that's a discussion of another level.

How am I ignorant in paypal niche? I used the fucking "" for fuck sake yet you are still playing smart ass? Or are you that stupid?

Don't waste your time on Trolls, it's what they want. Those of us that understand how it works and, why it will work, are confidently waiting.

[RJF]

So take for example I wanted to buy something for 10k USD I have to put 20k Down? No way... No way not happening.

Pretty sure if you polled the community as a whole they would not go for this either.

Yea, pretty absurd...  Will limit the market to people selling DOGE tshirts.   

If you're selling a doge tshirt and cant cover the 20$ for the deposit then you dont deserve to be in business..

Don't worry about them, they are clueless and that's fine, the rest of us are not.

[RJF]

One last time for those who still don't seem to "get it":

Some of you here are operating under the totally INCORRECT assumption that "Double Escrow" means double the cost of the item. This is TOTALLY INCORRECT unless the parties want it to be that way. The two parties involved in the escrow agreement have to set, and agree upon, an escrow amount. They are NOT forced to use double the amount of the contract, they can choose the amount.

One more time:

The parties involved in the transaction agree upon the escrow amount. Period.

[RiverBoatBTC]

One last time for those who still don't seem to "get it":

Some of you here are operating under the totally INCORRECT assumption that "Double Escrow" means double the cost of the item. This is TOTALLY INCORRECT unless the parties want it to be that way. The two parties involved in the escrow agreement have to set, and agree upon, an escrow amount. They are NOT forced to use double the amount of the contract, they can choose the amount.

One more time:

The parties involved in the transaction agree upon the escrow amount. Period.

Then the problem of the buyer screwing the seller arises again, if the buyer puts what ever amount into escrow and then just disputes it the vendor loses all the coins. If the vendor requires such a high % of escrow then no one will use the Vendor.

Or am I missing something?

[RJF]

One last time for those who still don't seem to "get it":

Some of you here are operating under the totally INCORRECT assumption that "Double Escrow" means double the cost of the item. This is TOTALLY INCORRECT unless the parties want it to be that way. The two parties involved in the escrow agreement have to set, and agree upon, an escrow amount. They are NOT forced to use double the amount of the contract, they can choose the amount.

One more time:

The parties involved in the transaction agree upon the escrow amount. Period.

Then the problem of the buyer screwing the seller arises again, if the buyer puts what ever amount into escrow and then just disputes it the vendor loses all the coins. If the vendor requires such a high % of escrow then no one will use the Vendor.

Or am I missing something?

Nothing is perfect and, the scenario you propose can certainly happen but, that's life. People need to be aware, to the best of their ability, what they are agreeing to and what they stand to loose. In many cases, escrow won't even be needed or, a token amount of coin can be used. It's all very dynamic and can be tailored differently for each deal if desired. The point is this, it's available if needed...
 
 

[GlooBoy]

There will be so many trusted traders with great feedback in the marketplace that you wont feel it necessary to use any level of escrow with most of them.

But for the totally unknown person with -0- feedback to deal with another completely anonymous unknown, this DD escrow system does work perfectly.

And thats just the trade part of it. there are many uses for it that haven't even been dreamed up yet.

And you can still use your 3rd party escrow for 5%, just write that into your smart contract.

Cant wait to start playing with the new wallet.

[spookycoins]

Escrows have been used for a very long time right now. There are three main downsides:

- Loss of liquidity
- High transaction fees
- Reliance on trustworthy middlemen

The biggest downside is the transaction fee. Real-life eskrows are hugely expensive. But they're worth it in large business deals because they secure against large companies breaking down on deals going haywire. Eskrows aren't used for guitars or cellphones in this case, they're used in corporate lawsuits, fusions and large construction projects. That's where the humongous margins are considered normal.  

Right off the bat, Bitbay removes the biggest downside. The transaction fees are negligible.

Middlemen are another problem. They exist, but they are rare. Putting a large sum of money to be 'taken care for' by someone else, no matter how reputable is a problem. It takes a lot of checks and balances to counter the huge incentive for the middlemen to watch the deal go bust. This immediately explains why escrow fees are so expensive.

Bitbay also solves this. The escrow holder is a piece of incorruptible software.

So what remains is the loss of liquidity. People are entirely right that this is inconvenient for shopping online. Both for the merchant as well as the customer. But it's foolish to focus on just this. The exchange isn't just an Ebay, it's also a currency  exchange, a stock exchange, a service platform, a craigslist and a ticketswap.

So fair enough. Bitbay won't immediately be used for the next smartphone or Furby. But it WILL be used to buy commodities and services. Stuff like gold, stock, coins. As well as marketing, design and code. There's simply no real alternative in this world.

It's not going to take out the online vendors. But it's going to facilitate a whole new market of traders that are currently really struggling in a financial environment where mutual trust is very low. If liquidity is the only obstacle then so be it. Not every downside is an unacceptable downside.

Great explanation.

[tyler27]

"I design a website for a client. He is paying me through paypal. After I deliver the website, he issues a chargeback for X reason. I'll have absolute 0 chance to stop that since the BUYER is right in the eyes of paypal"

Not true, Paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products...

Dont try he is a kool aid drinker its obvious thats why I did not respond.

Cut this crap already, don't give me this shit. That's not the point. I only said that as an example ...

"mimimi, paypal does not accept chargebacks for digital products..."

It's so easy to play smart ass, yet still your ignorance have no limit...

It was just to point out that everybody is ignorant in some niche...as you are in the Paypal niche. Using the word "ignorance" in every sentence won't change the fact that you have somehow the illusion to not be an ignorant. Anyway, that's a discussion of another level.

How am I ignorant in paypal niche? I used the fucking "" for fuck sake yet you are still playing smart ass? Or are you that stupid?

Dude, I could waste some minutes of my time with an ignorant...but not with an angry ignorant.
Have a nice day.

[unusualfacts30]

Escrows have been used for a very long time right now. There are three main downsides:

- Loss of liquidity
- High transaction fees
- Reliance on trustworthy middlemen

The biggest downside is the transaction fee. Real-life eskrows are hugely expensive. But they're worth it in large business deals because they secure against large companies breaking down on deals going haywire. Eskrows aren't used for guitars or cellphones in this case, they're used in corporate lawsuits, fusions and large construction projects. That's where the humongous margins are considered normal.  

Right off the bat, Bitbay removes the biggest downside. The transaction fees are negligible.

Middlemen are another problem. They exist, but they are rare. Putting a large sum of money to be 'taken care for' by someone else, no matter how reputable is a problem. It takes a lot of checks and balances to counter the huge incentive for the middlemen to watch the deal go bust. This immediately explains why escrow fees are so expensive.

Bitbay also solves this. The escrow holder is a piece of incorruptible software.

So what remains is the loss of liquidity. People are entirely right that this is inconvenient for shopping online. Both for the merchant as well as the customer. But it's foolish to focus on just this. The exchange isn't just an Ebay, it's also a currency  exchange, a stock exchange, a service platform, a craigslist and a ticketswap.

So fair enough. Bitbay won't immediately be used for the next smartphone or Furby. But it WILL be used to buy commodities and services. Stuff like gold, stock, coins. As well as marketing, design and code. There's simply no real alternative in this world.

It's not going to take out the online vendors. But it's going to facilitate a whole new market of traders that are currently really struggling in a financial environment where mutual trust is very low. If liquidity is the only obstacle then so be it. Not every downside is an unacceptable downside.

---

As for the price. I don't like that subject but I couldn't avoid the main optimistic and pessimistic comments being thrown here. I don't think much is going to happen upon the wallet release. IF something happens, like a surge then it's just smoke and mirrors by someone who wants it to appear that way.

What people have to take into account is that an ICO remains an incredibly hard to estimate thing to predict. There's no mining, there's very little buying and selling and a few BTC's worth can let you set the price wherever you like. We have no idea what Bitbay value. This initial market cap is just very arbitrary. The 20-30 area will probably stay here for a while and that's not really going to say anything about the coin itself.

Yes, very true indeed.

BitBay will change the world in few years. If this project is legit (so far it hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise). This can change how everything works in marketplace and real world. Once people are used to using smart contracts they will never go back to "paypal" or any other middleman for that matter including real life ones (realtors as an example).

[unusualfacts30]

I got a quick quesiton about something

Q: Please explain how the escrow system will protect buyers & sellers in BitBay transactions.

A: The system is the revolutionary double deposit escrow. Both Buyer and Seller place deposits into a shared account. There is no need for an escrow agent. The deposits serve as the incentive to perform. Therefore theft and deception is impossible in these escrows. If those actions occur, the parties will not agree, the escrow will expire and they both lose. BitBay takes the profit out of theft.


Lets say I am the buyers, and I really hate a seller. He sends me my product and I just dispute it causing him to lose coins, i keep doing this to bankrupt him. How will you prevent this?

I could care less if I lose coins I got the product in hand.

Because you have to deposit TWICE the amount required to buy the product. So, unless you are just some psychopathic rich weirdo who doesn't mind spending double the amount for something just to torment the seller, this isn't going to happen very often because most people actually value their money.

So take for example I wanted to buy something for 10k USD I have to put 20k Down? No way... No way not happening.

Pretty sure if you polled the community as a whole they would not go for this either.

^ You get it.
The DD escrow just doesn't seem practical for use.
I wonder how many people actually read the complete FAQ or understood how the escrow system really works.

DD = deposit from both sides

It doesn't mean you need "double money". If you're selling $100,000 car you can put $1 in an escrow if you like but obviously more you put in more secure the deal will be. It's all upto seller & buyer how much they want to put in escrow. There is no "mandatory" deposit requirement from "smart contract". It's given there as a safety measure. Obviously, you don't have to use it if you don't want and those who're against it can just leave it alone.

In simple terms:

Seller A is selling an earphone for $50. Buyer sends him a message. He replies. They both agree to seal the deal WITHOUT escrow. In that case no money is required from both side.

What BitBay is doing is removing the middleman and allowing Buyer & Seller to seal the deal however they want. If deal turns sour they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

Obvioiusly, If I'm selling something to new buyer I would want him to put money as "security deposit" and that totally depends on what we agree on. It can  be anything from $0-$50k+ BUT it's totally upto Buyer & Seller. There is no one to tell you what to do. Isn't that wonderful? Damn right it is.

Second example:

You're sitting LA and wants to rent an apartment in NYC. You contact the seller and he tells you 500 BAY "security deposit" is required. You both agree and you deposit 500 BAY in an escrow with clause that "if he doesn't hear from you within a week deal will be canceled and you'll get back your security deposit (money you put in escrow)" OR "you'll move in new apartment within a month and if you don't money will be released to him". So, in this case seller deposit "zero" and buyer deposits "500 Bay".

Both are happy with the deal and deal is secured.

Obviously, second example is something that'll happen in long term and first example is something you'll start seeing as soon as marketplace is launched. My point is that Bay has more potential than any of us realize and don't look at DD as something mandatory. No one would force you to use it and no one would be yelling at you if you don't use it. Seller & Buyer have total control over it.

[issie81]

Bought another BTC, damnn still freakin cheap

[GStealthCoin]

In example 1 - what happens if the goods are never received?

[Decentradical]

In example 1 - what happens if the goods are never received?

That's the situation that smart contracts are supposed to make so unappealing that both parties do whatever they can to avoid it. So, the same thing as when the merchant doesn't receive the payment. The deal is off and the escrow stays where it is and if it's timed then both parties lose their escrow.

If the escrow is particularly high then it's recommended to set up a new contract with a new escrow and release the old contract the moment the new one is set.

[unusualfacts30]

In example 1 - what happens if the goods are never received?

You lose money. Seller lose reputation and that would be last time he would sell anything in Marketplace. Keep in mind smart contract can't protect you from scammers nothing can but it makes it less attractive for them so you'll never have to deal with scams who take your money and don't send you product.

If you're buying from new seller it's your job to make sure that deal goes smoothly for you and you shouldn't buy from him if he isn't able to put some money in escrow. Even Nigerian prince can sell stuff in marketplace as long as he can find people who wants to get scam but he'll back out as soon as you ask him to deposit money in escrow.

Now, if seller is old and has good reputation. Hell..I wouldn't even worry about it. In that case you'll just contact him and he'll send you the merchanise or update you with whatever is going on. Someone who has spent 1 year in building reputation there is less likely he'll come out and scam because he'll be risking his account.

There will be angry buyers and there will be angry sellers but that's something that comes with business and there is no way to go around it. All you can do is not deal with that seller again and go to his account and give him negative review just like ebay.