I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?
OK, I'll bite. I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013. I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section. Here's the article with the subscription form: http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/Joined! What's the inputs.io address needed for btw? At some point (and I'm moving slowly on this) I was thinking I'd offer random "prizes" in BTC and DVC for things like posting good comments and other random things. I don't want to have a faucet, per se, but figured it might be fun to occasionally "bless" a subscriber with something, and inputs.io makes it easy to send small BTC amounts around without the transaction fees  |
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I suggest a bounty of 9 shares for the first person to do something for the anniversary, 6 for the second, and 3 for the third. I recommend that the party organizer keeps half and gives half to the partygoers if there are any, but it's up to them. Any objections, or should anything be changed?
OK, I'll bite. I'm offering some DVCs to everyone who subscribes to my list (and provides a DVC address) before midnight Eastern Standard Time August 6, 2013. I'll post a thread in the alternative crypto section of this forum and the newbie section. Here's the article with the subscription form: http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc/2013/08/05/in-honor-of-devcoins-second-anniversary/Edit: I also posted this on the Devtome: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=in_honor_of_devcoins_second_anniversary |
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My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views. I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it. Correct? If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares. It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.
Something that needs to be considered. Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work. Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing. Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better. This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of. 3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.
The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this. So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round. I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.
thanks!
There's an issue with this that goes deeper. Only a few days worth of marketing will count. I can throw traffic at the site at any point through my various sources, but because it's an external site I won't be able to sustain that. For example, I'd have no issue tossing out 10k+ views (LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC funneled from my news sites) over a period of a day or two, but after that it would drop off. So the marketing is worthless to me unless I were to hit it right at the perfect time. Otherwise I'd be funneling people over, getting absolutely nothing for it, and if it wasn't in that 4-day period where traffic counts, it'd have all been a waste of effort. Furthermore, only 80k words count regardless, and there are a couple more things to point out to you: 1) The 0.75-1.25 is only for this round. Starting next round it's 0.5-1.5. 2) You can only do 80k words. So essentially your earnings, should you do all 80k, would be anywhere from 40-120 shares starting in the next round. Even if you wrote 500000 million words, you would still be bound to the same thing since it's still only going to count the 80k. My marketing ability alone would be borderline exploitative with this new system, and that is one reason why I hate it. I have no problems with creating surges of traffic by carefully picking topics and marketing them myself, but those surges are short-lasted. Any long-term marketing I have to do is focused on keeping all of my sites in the ranking #1 and #2 in Google. I really don't like basically having to choose whether I want to sustain my own site or sustain another site in the hopes that I *might* be rewarded on the second; I much prefer guarantees. Furthermore, there are many methods where this could be exploited with non-legitimate traffic, and to the poster that brought up using Google Analytics... those are easily fooled. Regardless, I'm sticking it out for this round and I will see whether or not it's worth continuing with its latest changes. If nothing else, I'll calm down on the writing and marketing (I've marketed the hell out of the main page since I joined the project, :p) and treat it as more of a side project. Thanks for the more in depth explanation. When you say "this round" do you mean round 26 or 27? I'm hoping round 26 stays as it was before, so as not to switch midstream. Yes, the rewarding for marketing does pose issues, which is why I pointed it out, and clearly you have thought of them as well. I think it would be better to reward writing and marketing separately, especially since stories can grow in popularity weeks and months after they are written and paid for. The other thing is that the sort of writing that attracts short term surges of traffic (i.e., stuff lots of people want to read) isn't necessarily going to be the same quality of writing that will last, but I guess that's been a problem for centuries (Mozart died a pauper and yet his music lives on). I will have to decide as I go if this is workable for me. I'm a decent writer and a terrible marketer, and I don't really have the time to do both. Writing for the Devtome so far has been great because it rewarded my writing without depending on my ability to market it, which up to now has been unheard of. But from the beginning I have viewed this as most likely a temporary opportunity--one to take full advantage of now and not take for granted will always be there. The couple rounds I have gotten paid for have made a huge difference for me and I'm trying to use my DVC in a way that will make that positive difference continue even if the Devtome opportunity dries up for me. One factor beyond anyone's control that will impact whether or not the new system is still worth it for me is the DVC/BTC exchange rate. When the price of DVC is low, you want to be able to earn lots of them. When the price is high, even earning just a few can go a long way. But the way the rounds are paid for, you really can't know at the time you're writing what the exchange rate will be in a month to six weeks, so my goal has been to get as many as I could. Not sure what I will do moving forward, but I will probably have to try writing under the new system to see how it plays out, and then decide if I want to keep going. |
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My 2 DVC on the change in payment based on page views. I haven't worked through the math, but it looks like if I write 1000 words and no one ever reads it, I would get 0.75 share for it. Correct? If a lot of people read my work, then I get 1.25 shares. It strikes me as a decent compromise between rewarding the writing itself (unconditionally) and rewarding writing that many others like.
Something that needs to be considered. Rewarding by page views is also rewarding based on author's ability to market his or her work. Authors who do not market well for whatever reason would lose on the page views unless they arrange to have others do the marketing. Authors who market well will be rewarded by extra shares regardless of whether or not their writing is objectively better. This isn't necessarily bad, just something to be aware of. 3/5 of the potential earnings are unaffected by this.
The one thing I would like to have for sure is that when this formula kicks in, that our earnings are shown on the various files that we already use to determine this. So, if I'm getting .75 share for something, I'd like that to be indicated so that I can plan to write more or market harder during that round. I can work with this as long as I know what to expect.
thanks!
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So what are we doing to mark Devcoin's two year anniversary on August 5th?
I am so glad you mentioned this! I've been working on a website about Bitcoins and Devcoins (for now, could expand into other currencies later). It's called Creative Currencies and the url is http://creativecurrencies.cu.cc I just set up my email list and was thinking of some ways to promote it and entice people to subscribe. I think I might just hold some sort of DVC giveaway, choose one or two lucky subscribers, in honor of the anniversary. That will depend on if I get it together in time... |
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This would make a great Devtome article Thinking on investing my DVC vs. selling, I thought I would provide a little view of what one could expect for returns by buying shares at cryptostocks.com. The four available DVC stocks are listed below. The "DVC" column below is an arbitrary number. DPS is dividends per share. ROI based on the last dividend distribution. DFreq is how often dividends are sent to shareholders. Exchange Ticker DVC Price Shares DPS ROI DFreq Last Traded Crypto::Stocks P2PDVC 1000000 100.6 9940.357853 0.1000000 994.0357853 1-3x daily 8/2/13 2:44 AM Crypto::Stocks DVB 1000000 200 5000.000000 0.0090654 45.327000 7 days 7/31/2013 12:25 Crypto::Stocks ASCMDVCPT 1000000 10,000.00 100.000000 28.8996195 2889.961953 7 days 8/1/2013 21:52 Crypto::Stocks PYRPXYDVC 1000000 900 1111.111111 6.56905504 7298.950044 IPO (1) 7/13/2013 6:51 Reading the first entry would be like this: Cryptostocks ticker P2PDVC with 1 million DVC @ 100.6 DVC each, will give you 9940.357853 shares with an expected return of 0.1 DVC per share for a total of 994 DVC, distributed multiple times a day.I know this is just a single shot at one moment, but if anyone is interested, I can provide averages based on the stocks distro history. I thought about charting it, but that might be a multi-day project. *You might have to increase the size of your screen to make the table show correctly. I've tried to adjust the spacing to line up correctly. I do have this as an XML if anyone wants it. *I have no contact with cryptostocks.com (no conflict of interest), so I have nothing to gain other than maybe promoting the one exchange which deals in DVC which might increase the value of my holdings. The public document is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvoPQEtk-YKudHV5djhDdmtaRXp5QkFVa01YTWJ3SlE&usp=sharing (I didn't want to shorten it and risk losing anything). Feel free to enter your own number of DVC shares to check possible returns based on this data. Everything else is locked. Hopefully. |
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From DVC sales, I've tried to kick in about 1 BTC worth of buys as well as putting up buy walls. I tried to follow the posted advice to sell a portion and use a portion to buy back, but it seems forced. Like just another trader trying to manipulate the price.
So then I put about 30% of my DVC in cryptostocks.com. I also have some sitting on mcxNOW, but it's not being put to any practical use.
Question: Where else can I use the DVC to reinvest in the coin/community? Are there other places like cryptostocks that will take DVC and reinvest it?
I really like cryptostocks since it's not a straight sale and the coin is doing something for me while also for someone else and it's not further degrading the current prices.
+1! Yes, give us good ways to invest our DVC and we won't need to sell so many of them. |
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^^ There was a big buy wall at 74 sat last night, about 12btc worth, and it wasn't eaten, it was removed by whoever set it up and replaced with a series of small buy orders 100kdvc in price steps down, designed to force dumpers to get less and less for their coins, especially as no-one else is stepping in to buy.
The whole thing is fascinating - wonder what the next stage of this saga will be...
That is VERY interesting. I was wondering what happened to that wall... |
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I noticed that too. Maybe someone will pump it up again. Maybe it won't drop down to quite as low as it was before. |
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Whoever orchestrated today's massive pump, thanks for the demonstration. Now I think I understand what it is. I only wish I'd been able to watch it more closely as it was happening (I was away from the Internet until after the fact). I'm certainly happy with the results, though.
I didn't panic dump either. I had a low price in mind below which I wasn't going to sell. I picked up more DVC stocks while waiting out the low. If I weren't so keen on ASICMINER shares I suppose I could pick up a new hobby of selling DVCs high and then buying more of them when the price drops. One of these days, maybe :-)
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong but based on my understanding, a pump is when people remove their buy orders and buy down a lot of the sell ones. For ex:
Buy orders are at: 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Sell orders are at: 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
For the pump, those buying at 5-10 take their orders down and buy out all the 11, 12, 13, 14, leaving up 15. Then they re-list at 15, 16, 17, 18. This theoretically boosts the value because now the lowest sell price is much higher than it was before.
And the wall would be where they put in a massive buy order at 15 so no one can sell at a lower price for a while. It would have to be a coordinated effort among all the people who want to buy. And all those people have to be willing to buy at a higher price than they might otherwise be able to get. So they would have to have a very good reason to drive the price up, enough that they'd be willing to buy some at the inflated price. Maybe they do this in order to then dump at the higher price? Would that be a pump and dump? What other reasons might people have to be involved in a pump? |
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Wiser - that's fine, but then people (not referring to anybody in particular, including you) shouldn't complain about the price, lack of incentive to initiate or develop upon other projects at that price, or any resulting dearth of bid interest.
Fair enough, at least about the price. I understand that if I sell DVCs that does contribute to the prices falling. This isn't a complaint but I do have a difficult time finding ways to use my Devcoins as Devcoins, and that's why I sell them for BTC (or did--the current price is a bit too low for my taste so I'm holding for now). At this point, there is more to do with BTC. I'm optimistic that this will change for the better over time, and I'm looking forward to learning more about that, and hopefully being among the first to invest my DVC in some of those new projects. But in the mean time, I'm not content to just sit on my DVCs. I do want to do something useful with them--something that will in some way improve my life now (not just in some hypothetical future where DVCs are worth a dollar each and I'm glad I sat on millions of them now), whether that is to cash them out and pay bills or buy some dividend paying stocks. |
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You need to understand what moves price. That buy wall created some interest but it quickt fell when ppl realized there was no pump. As days went buy small sells broke into it. Like i said before when price sits on support for a while it will fall like a knife or be a long term bottom. As dvc the true value was lower because noone was willing to buy above market
not at market.
I said it before and wiser contradicted me but there is a science involved in creating interest in rising prices. You have to buy a bit above market a bit below as limits and a bit at market as you support a rise. Walls are only good from a distant price at it invokes fear greed.
That thing I never said keeps coming back up LOL. The quote you are referring to where I contradicted you was wrongly attributed to me. I actually would like to understand better how walls and pumps work. You refer to a wall without a pump. I get what a wall is--a very large order or group of orders to buy or sell at a particular price. What is a pump? Is that when someone keeps adding orders to the wall to keep it up? Like for example, if I put an order to buy 20 million DVC at 65 sat, and then 1 million of them get sold, I then place another order to buy 1 million DVC at 65 sat so as to keep the wall right at 20 million? Do I understand this correctly? Or is a pump something else altogether? If so, then what is it? Would you be willing to write an article about the science involved in creating interest in rising prices and then send me the link? I want to learn how that works. Thanks |
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I don't want to call out anyone publicly but what I will say is that the tanking price occurred after a single specific event: someone dumped over 20 million coins on the market on their own, tackling the big buy walls that were already up. This is what caused the downward spiral and the "panic selling" we are seeing, and is what has killed the price for the time being. It wasn't a large group of people, it was a single one.
Now, with that said, I think the current reward system is good. People just need to start paying more attention to what they're doing before they make drastic decisions.
Perhaps the guy who dumped the 20 million is planning to rebuy them all when the price drops to 35 sat... I agree with Ranlo that we should leave the reward system as is. That's what we agreed to as writers. What we do with our earnings is up to us. Personally, I use my DVC to better my life. For me, DVC will become more valuable as more options to use them (without having to first trade them) to better my life open up. People who develop such opportunities are welcome to promote them to me. |
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Well maybe we should somehow/somewhere make it clearer then how much of what is already being done all aims toward eventually having all the parts in hand to be able to hopefully all together act as a massively multiplayer game or entire collection of multiplayer games all integrated one way or another so that overall they all function as parts in a larger metagame.
-MarkM-
Or a go-to place for everything that people are doing for DevCoin in general. Reading through the thread I've seen tons of things people hint at but no real information on how you can get involved, what needs to be done for each project, the status of each project, etc. I'm sure a lot of us could help out with many of these projects if we knew what was needed and what's even going on. I don't think that would be too hard to do, actually. One could request/require that anyone working on a project that is covered by a bounty submit periodic (weekly most likely) progress reports about what is going on. The reports should be concise, answer some specific questions, and then get added to a project's "progress blog." One page could contain hotlinks to all the projects and their progress blogs. People working on projects which aren't specifically covered by a bounty could be invited to also submit progress reports (maybe have some reward for doing so?). Projects could be sorted by category, so all the gaming stuff could be grouped together and people who know and care about it can easily access it. When someone new starts talking about how great it would be if this project happened (and it's already being worked on) it's a simple matter to refer that person to the place where all the information on that project is posted. I would think something like this could be set up on the Devtome, but I'm not a coder or programmer so I could be wrong about that. If the Devcoin "powers that be" decide to run with this idea (or some modification), then one thing I would add is that the progress reports be written so that they can be understood by a nontechnical person (think potential investor). They should be a summary, not a detailed report, and they can link to longer reports with more technical information so that those who want to learn more very easily can. |
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I was trying to come up with new ideas and I came up with another as well: a F2P MMORPG where everything is paid for using DevCoins. Much like the games that are already out, but instead of using cash to buy tokens for the cash shop, you would use DevCoins to buy the tokens (or just flat out use DevCoins altogether).
This would boost the value of them by a TON. It's also a pretty big undertaking though.
Go read the game development forum sites to get background on the idea of creating a MMPRPG. Every idiot who knows nothing suggests it, go read/study though like none of them bother to do. What does F2P mean, by the way? While you are on insanely impractical notions, maybe build an entire new operating system from scratch? It doesn't need all the music and images and crap that an MMORPG does so you can probably do that much much easier, and you can build coins right into the operating-system. Maybe reading the thread would have been polite too, so you would have known that actually despite how inansely impractical it is to try to build an MMPRPG nonetheless people are already hard at work on many many many littie pieces that such a thing would need, so that in however many years it takes to get all those pieces done the idea of creating an MMORPG won't seem so insane because we will actually have all the pieces already by then. -MarkM- I'm glad you know so much. That is a very harsh post, considering what Ranlo shared was a brainstorm. If people here are serious about wanting Devcoin (or any cryptocoin) to go mainstream, I think it would accomplish way more to take the attitude here that no question or idea is a stupid one. People are getting interested and getting involved with varying levels of prior knowledge and experience (and ignorance!), and are not going to feel welcome if they are treated like idiots just for mentioning something. I personally welcome education so if I'm obviously ignorant about something, I welcome a polite and understandable explanation, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Those who know more, please do educate, but do so kindly. Thank you. |
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Since this morning I am unable to make any trades between BTC and DVC because the DVC/BTC chart is covering the buy/sell form you have to fill out. I've tried clearing my cache, using a different browser, logging out, then logging in again, shutting down my computer and starting all over and still the same thing. I'm frustrated by this because I was hoping to put in a bunch of orders this morning and see if they'd get fulfilled over the next few days. But I can't place any orders at all. I'm guessing this is a glitch from the upgrade to the site that was done today, and I'm hoping that it will be fixed very soon. I enjoy using the site otherwise and this is the first problem I've had since I started using this several weeks ago. Thanks in advance for your prompt attention.
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Wiser - it did close, I think it's just until the final 25 receiver files are put together and agreed with amendments for a couple of writers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg2726197#msg2726197so in the meantime the script is pulling in round 25 and 26 as one total, and is increasing due to new articles, but round 25 will drop off. Thanks for the explanation, Weisoq. I had read the message you referred to but not seen the edit. I have a couple follow up questions: 1. How long will the document be showing the combined total for round 25 and 26 before round 25 drops off? How long is typical for the closed round and the new round to be combined? 2. How typical is it to make adjustments after a round is closed? I mainly want to know what to expect. I had an earnings goal for round 25 which I thought I had reached (I was watching the progress of how shares were accumulating and making sure my writing kept pace so I could earn what my goal was). Only when those 68 shares were added, that caused me to not make my goal. This is not a complaint (I still did quite well), just a desire to know if this is something I should expect in future rounds. Because if it is, then this next round I will simply plan to overshoot my goal so as to account for these adjustments. Hope this makes sense, and thanks in advance for your patience with answering my questions |
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I am wondering why the number of receiver lines for round 25 keeps increasing. The document now says 709 receiver lines, but I thought it had closed at 600 back when we hit the 97300 blocks. Here is the file I am seeing: http://d.evco.in/charity/receiver_summary.txt |
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Just to clarify what I meant earlier about individuals putting up bounties in addition to regular Devtome earnings for specific pieces of writing... I'm referring to the stories and questions thread Unthinkingbit set up as a result of an idea I and someone else had to combine the part where you can write whatever you want and also be more motivated to write content someone else wants/needs. I was making the point that people behind the development of projects would greatly benefit from having those projects communicated to a wider audience in writing--very similar to how a business might pay a writer to write up a product brochure. I wasn't referring to anything else.
I'm new so can't comment much on the culture shift... but IMO any shift that moves towards bringing more people on board (interested in Devcoins), especially more mainstream types, is likely to be positive.
As for publishing an article on the Devtome inspired by a forum discussion, I did that. I thought of that because I read a post in which someone said it was great that the Devtome would allow for one to directly benefit from sharing an idea even if they didn't actually develop the idea. I had ideas. I shared them. I got paid. People on this forum shared my article and there was some discussion about it. I don't see the problem. However, if that ever becomes against the rules I will respect that. The admins look over my writing same as everyone else's. They can decide it shouldn't be there and I will accept it as long as the reasons given are clearly explained and consistent for all writers. Actually even if my writing was being unfairly picked on, I'd probably accept that too. The Devtome pays, which means the Devtome is the client (the customer) and the general truth in business is the customer is always right.
I have a busy day and won't be able to keep up with this thread today. But just wanted to respond to a few things that were written after I posted last night and make sure I'd clearly communicated what I meant to say.
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