As some were interested in my current work on my trading suite: I'm doing some good progress (although it's still in its very, very early stage); started some frontend work recently to check out how the backend performs. I found AmCharts to be the best JavaScript charting/plotting lib; free for personal use plus a commercial license available. Although the cloak graphs look quite depressing, heh.  .edit: Resized preview picture. .edit2: Some details: - TYPO3.Flow application (as TYPO3 is quite uncommon in the US (people tend to use Drupal more, I guess): it's a content management system, and TYPO3.Flow is a framework. TYPO3.Flow is to PHP what Rails is to Ruby, to put it simple)
- OOP/MVC coded backend which provides business logic, database connection, API calls etc
- separate frontend which communicates with the backend
Planned features: - automated trading
- technical analysis with different (maybe subscribable, not sure yet) trading strategies and alerts if events occured which are a clear signal to whatever trading strategy
- way more graphs and charts: trading time, volume and price (and maybe some other factors) should be set into relation to kind of get an automated overview, such as e.g. "those famous 177 orders appeared again, get ready for the waves", although I'm not sure if that's a realistic target... short: it should show information about the market which we don't see in the charts on the exchanges
- notifications (maybe via email) on big price movements
Currently, I'm trying to wrap my head around a possible solution for the API key problem. If others ever get to use this application, I definitely don't want to handle their API keys on my server. Although I'm quite used to handling GNU/Linux servers (due to my work), there is always someone who has better skills. And explaining to people why their accounts are emptied is the last thing I want to do. Ever. awesome work! I like it ! I would be interested in that, as I'm sure would many others.
Heh, thank you. Nice to see there is interest. But I cannot stress it enough: it's still in a very early stage of development - often, it doesn't look like that if basic UI is already implemented. What's working right now: - Cryptsy API implemented completely (Bittrex, Mintpal, BTCe and maybe crypto-trade to follow)
- fetching API data and storing prices (atm only for cloak for testing purposes) in database for analyzing historical data (API only gives something like the last 1000 trades back, which is about half a day, depending on trade activity)
- first complex trading strategy implemented, using 5 SMAs (later: EMAs) and RSI
- began writing my JavaScript library for trend indicators, most important ones are done
- listing my open trades (sort- and searchable, a feature I'm missing very much e.g. on Cryptsy), option to delete (all or single) plus edit (remove and re-add) will be implemented this evening, I think
Next step is the implementation of security layer/user accounts  Nevertheless, I think it'll take at least some months to complete, as I'm developing alone, next to my everyday job. Also, you will be able to see my full name, address/general contact data and everything an honest website has to deliver by law at any time (either on the website or by checking the domain record). Another point which I find highly annoying that people already had to get used to most services not offering their customers a way to find out who they're actually doing business with. A "normal" website not offering those details would be recognized as shady; not sure why in crypto we got that much used to it. .edit: Formatted post a bit for improved readability. Also, I think, I'll open a separate thread as soon as this thing (current working title is "BitShit" ^^) moved towards a somewhat usable direction, so I can maybe get some ideas from the community regarding what might be useful to implement. |
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As some were interested in my current work on my trading suite: I'm doing some good progress (although it's still in its very, very early stage); started some frontend work recently to check out how the backend performs. I found AmCharts to be the best JavaScript charting/plotting lib; free for personal use plus a commercial license available. Although the cloak graphs look quite depressing, heh. .edit: Resized preview picture. .edit2: Some details: - TYPO3.Flow application (as TYPO3 is quite uncommon in the US (people tend to use Drupal more, I guess): it's a content management system, and TYPO3.Flow is a framework. TYPO3.Flow is to PHP what Rails is to Ruby, to put it simple)
- OOP/MVC coded backend which provides business logic, database connection, API calls etc
- separate frontend which communicates with the backend
Planned features: - automated trading
- technical analysis with different (maybe subscribable, not sure yet) trading strategies and alerts if events occured which are a clear signal to whatever trading strategy
- way more graphs and charts: trading time, volume and price (and maybe some other factors) should be set into relation to kind of get an automated overview, such as e.g. "those famous 177 orders appeared again, get ready for the waves", although I'm not sure if that's a realistic target... short: it should show information about the market which we don't see in the charts on the exchanges
- notifications (maybe via email) on big price movements
Currently, I'm trying to wrap my head around a possible solution for the API key problem. If others ever get to use this application, I definitely don't want to handle their API keys on my server. Although I'm quite used to handling GNU/Linux servers (due to my work), there is always someone who has better skills. And explaining to people why their accounts are emptied is the last thing I want to do. Ever. |
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So that's two thing a few of us seem to agree on Redmine (project management software) and PR Manager, I guess it's up to the Devs to take the feedback onboard
That seems to be the case...There is a consensus among trusted members about these two matters - Redmine and PR Manager. Now I know that devs are reading this thread - the ball is in their court now. Let's see if they are willing to include the representative of the community as a PR Manager. If you check out the screenshot of yesterday's dasource's comments on IRC. He seems to agree that there should be a person in charge of announcements and PR - but he has the doubts that this person might abuse the position - and use it for his own advantage. This is a possibility - that's why we should choose the PR Manager carefully. We should nominate a few trustworthy members of the community and then vote. we HAD a very good PR guy, coolstoryteller, he set up cloaktalk.org, but he's out of cloak ever since the audit. kinda like cloako,( the guy formerly with over 30k cloak ) he got disillusioned by the way the devs handled the whole thing and sold it all. i just remember that line from the movie "jerry mcguire" that goes like this : HELP ME HELP YOU ! I really hope the devs will embrace allyouracid's idea, and yes, all this turmoil COULD have been avoided. it sucks to witness people like coolstoryteller and cloako go from one extreme to the other, when, if we'd just calm down the rewards could be life changing.......and it would really help investors calm down if we had an intermediary who knows his stuff. cloak COULD eventually be in the the top 5, or better  but not never with this kind of PR let's do this coin justice and fix this I need to say my piece here. The dev team could do with someone dealing with communications however there's no way that they need a project manager. That's just a knee jerk reaction to the deadline slipping, please give the team some space and let them work. Giving them an ultimatum about accepting a PM is just impatient. For some reason people think by owning a few cloak they can dictate to the devs, try looking at it from their perspective, they have put a lot of hard work and the people criticizing them have not. You seem to forget that those "knee jerkers" are the one who carry the whole project. What is a coin which noone owns? And regarding that, there are indeed some responsibilities towards the community. This has nothing, yeah, nothing to do with either dictating or knee jerking. .edit: Putting money into a coin IS work. Or do you think our money grows on trees? With money comes responsibility, so I think we can at least demand that tiny bit that we do demand... |
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The problem is: there is not always a way out. Way too many people don't follow the golden rule (don't invest more than you're willing to lose), they took the train 2 months ago ("choo choo!") and now, they're stuck on the wrong side of the train - literally, under the train. Now, those said people are doomed to wait for a rebound, and selling (the way out) would mean a (maybe big) loss, eventually.
For coordinating project development, I think I'll have a look at the IRC chat, maybe I can spot alty and propose him to setup a Redmine (project management software) installation on my server, so they can get things sorted a bit and the community can follow the progress.
This would be my way to contribute to the crypto community.
It is more likely that you will come upon DaSource or some other devs, but Alty comes to IRC a few times a week. I think your idea of setting up the Redmine is the best thing we've heard in weeks. So Alty or any other devs that are reading this thread. Please contact allyouracid, he's a legit and trustworthy member of the community. We need to change the way devs and Alty have been handling interaction with the community and stakeholders - this is the number one priority for all of us. I plead to any members of the development team or anyone that is close to them to reach out to us (because it is much harder for us to reach you) and especially to the people like allyouracid who have concrete solution to problems. So please consider this and let us move forward together. Hi, I contacted dasource on IRC, making my proposal: 15:29 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with dasource|afk
15:31 <allyourbase> Hello! I was told I can talk to you to make a proposal about helping to improve the current "PR" situation. :) First of all, I'm not that present in IRC, but very present in the
cloak thread. And the current situation makes me kind of sad, for the most part because it was avoidable.
15:32 <allyourbase> I'm not sure if you noticed, but someone on the cloak thread mentioned that the DarkCoin developers use JIRA as a project management software. I'm a developer myself and we use
it at work, and it really helps to keep track of current projects, progress etc.
15:34 <allyourbase> So, while JIRA is not free for use, I'd like to make a proposal: if appreciated, I could setup a redmine installation on my machine for the development team. This would be my way
of contributing to the community, and I think it would help a lot to 1) keep track of progress and whats being done, already, 2) have the opportunity to create tickets for bugs
and 3) let the community see what is currently being done
15:36 <allyourbase> Redmine is open source, and I use it for my spare time projects (I'm currently working on a trading suite with technical analysis, market analysis, live trading on different
markets with different trading strategies and, later, some premium features), and it works really great.
15:38 <allyourbase> Maybe you can drop me a message when you read this (and maybe thought about it). I'd be happy to help, because the situation, as it is, is inacceptable. Not only for the
community, but also for the development team (what a "nice" surprise that must have been to realize someone being in vacation right before the ETA)...
18:01 -!- dasource|afk [~dasource@unaffiliated/dasource] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
I think he wasn't online when I was there (timezone?), but I dropped the message and I guess he'll read it when he's back online. To underline it a bit further (as I heard that alty is somewhat skeptical towards new ideas, because of "losing control" or things like code becoming leaked): - the project management software is all about tasks, time booking (can be used optionally), coordination and priorization of tasks
- there is no code of the client involved... it won't get public as it does not even touch the pm software (although I appreciate open source software )
- this means: current features can be created, assigned to developers, split up into subtasks which also can be assigned to developers
- rough timeframes can (not must) be set for each task, which has benefits like you're going to see in the calendar/Gantt chart when certain tasks do overlap heavily, or if developer resources are out of capacity for new tasks due to working on other things
- there are optional plugins for redmine, such as an internal forum (helps to discuss tasks), a documents section, wiki pages, said calendar and Gantt chart, where every section can be configured to be publicly visible or not
It's just fine to keep a project organized. Documents can be stored, bugs can be tracked and a lot more. As I said, I'm using Redmine myself for my private project like my trading suite, and since I coordinate my projects this way, I feel that my time is spent in a way more useful manner. Also, I don't forget about new ideas, concepts etc. as there is always a place to store things. So, that's just a well-meant offer from me. I personally don't know any reason not to use it, but the decision is up to the developers. For now, I'll have a look into the IRC from time to time and check whether dasource is online. |
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TheDagger very exciting dude! The tech looks amazing. I'm buying more!
Can you give an estimate on timelines to deliver this?
Also, can you share information with the community on the dev team that will be implementing this to remove any misconceptions?
Trying to avoid eta's. Will let everyone know as we progress and it's reached testnet etc. Same dev team as before, there have been no changes as we work well together. To those who doubt that Alty said that they don't want to give ETAs, here is the proof - his post from the 26th of August. Too much pressure from the demanding community led him to put a date - and it backfired on all of us. People just keep calm and patient - if you don't have the nerves and balls to be involved with CLOAK , there is always a way out. I'm staying in, because I have a gut feeling that they shall deliver soon and it's going to be BIG. The problem is: there is not always a way out. Way too many people don't follow the golden rule (don't invest more than you're willing to lose), they took the train 2 months ago ("choo choo!") and now, they're stuck on the wrong side of the train - literally, under the train. Now, those said people are doomed to wait for a rebound, and selling (the way out) would mean a (maybe big) loss, eventually. For coordinating project development, I think I'll have a look at the IRC chat, maybe I can spot alty and propose him to setup a Redmine (project management software) installation on my server, so they can get things sorted a bit and the community can follow the progress. This would be my way to contribute to the crypto community. |
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Just another question: what's with the other things which were supposed to be released yesterday? If I remember correctly, just the developer of OneMarket disappeared for five days. Weren't there some 3-5 other features being listed on the fancy ETA PDF?  |
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Dont worry.. Dev said Hi on IRC, now everything is OK, all forgiven.. again..
Sheeps are already bending over with their panties at their knees painting a bullseye on their ass... again
Bring some lube this time !
But but but..... They developed a VPN with the word cloak on it! BUYING! The fact is, the trust between the devs and the community is irrevocably shattered. Imagine if I had a boss but worked from home. I promised my boss the project the company needs is coming along just great! Then when its due I inform my boss, through a text, that I havnt been working on the project for the last 5 days, but it was impossible for me to inform anyone at the company. And thats all I said. But then I tell my boss, well I did develop a VPN for the company! I was fooled once, yes even rational investors can be fooled. Im posting here to warn others, there is ZERO professionalism here and if any of you with jobs out there did this, you know you would be fired. Its that simple. So i suggest doing the same thing to this coin and project. alty was posting telling us the project is going good and going to be right on time? Originally he said he didn't want to put a ETA for this exact reason. He said they would "push" for the 10th. Then 2 days ago on irc he said they were a little behind, i would quote it but im on my phone. The people complaining are the ones who pushed for a release date. I hope those people got burned. This is a lesson to all developers that unless you are 100% sure, DO NOT GIVE AN ETA. I am still holding all my CLOAK. Beer and popcorn in hand, watching all the weak hands cry and bitch. Alty did nothing wrong. What? Development is all about ETAs. If I'd tell my customers I cannot give an ETA (meaning I cannot tell them when they get their product delivered), they'd move on to another company that is able to plan and coordinate its development. |
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I get the same feeling about this as i got when greedy people continued to deposit btc to gox when it totally collapsed, days before it got shut down for good.. (Good luck to thoose coins again)
People must:
1. Have to much money.
2. Dont care about the money.
3. Be stuck in some kind of longtime denial.
I have to say that this is the sickest thing i have watched in crypto yet. I dont see why people are struggeling to keep this coin alive after being treated like stupid sheeps by the dev team over and over again ? Very many of these people must be stuck since way over 100k to not just drop the bags and run now.
If the price of this coin jumps for the 37th time just of some new bs ETA it would be pretty hilarious. People need to wake up or atleast bail before everyone else the next time.
People must: 1. Have to much desire. 2. Dont care about the consequences. 3. Be refused a kind of retribution. Now wwwhat kind of life is that? Nice style of writing, really. There's one thing I'd like to know: in what direction did your question "what do you really want to say?" go? Did you read something between the lines or was my writing style just poor? Or was it like "too many words for very little message"? |
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Totally agree! But pressure I mean it more in a psychological way. Imagine you begin with such a project. And you make it very good. You work hard and for the most you are Jesus, because the price is rising etc. But also: The price does not reflect everytime how much you invest in it. The Community-Feedback is often disrespectful particularly the price falls or just stagnate for some weeks. A few people always starts complaining if there is not something hyping in a two-day-timeframe. And than: You see dumping. Whales who bought in early sell at the top without fundamental reasons. And: At the same time something big (PoSA) does not work out as good as intended. There are some issues and it all maybe comes together with private plans (vacation for example) and it is all very different from the plans. You are revised and your Investors are disappointed, your own investment is down, too. You need some money and you sell some of your own Coins, much cheaper as intended. There are problems inside the Team... Short: It`s a real hard time.
And in such a time, people often don't have the psychological energy to face a critic community. And every word could lead to a dump. Completely honesty can lead to a dump, even if it's just about some more time. If a Dev would say: Sorry, my daugther is ill. Family first for a week... The price would drop and some would ask: Is he lying? Manipulating? Scammer? etc.
What I want to say is: There are times, you can't do it really right. You just can do it "as right as possible" or "not too bad". And psychological... you don't get such a project out of your mind. You always know, whatever you do in private: Thousands of people are waiting for progress. That is the Master-Plan to a big burn-out. And, to make it clear: I don't want to defend the way how Alty acts in the moment. But I can imagine the pressure and I know from myself: Under pressure and nearly burn-out... all what I would like to have is just some time out. No talking, no complaining... maybe working, but without contact to people who are always pushing. I know it from my own projects (not Software but with similarities in the dynamic). And if there comes a time, one just want some rest... it all becomes a risk. The honest people could think about running away.
For me, under the line: I'm totally convinced, that Alty and nobody of the project, ever intended a scam or big manipulation. Should they give up, than because they couldn't face all the pressure in Crypto. And that's a lot...
And, to come to an end: Satoshi Nakamato had not that pressure. We all can't know, if Bitcoin would exist if he had had such pressure.
Sorry if I cannot answer to the extent this post deserves - I'm a bit short of time. What you say does make sense. At least, it's what most people holding cloak wish. But there are some inconsistencies: somebody saying that everything looks fine (some days before "The Date", maybe it was yesterday or Monday) MUST have had contact to the developer. How else would he know that everything is in time? He MUST have noticed that a developer (the one of the most important feature) is not available. I have a quite good knowledge of human nature and this looks shady, smells fishy and seems dishonest. This just keeps me from believing that he is sitting on his PC, coding the crap out of his mind. It's a feeling that has manifested itself. Maybe you are right, maybe you're not. I just don't know. I'm uncertain (the second letter of FUD - without FUD being the reason for it). For all those still invested in cloak, believing in cloak and for the community altogether, I sincerely hope that you are right. What are you really saying? Isnt it obvious? The devs promise an epic release. Update on how great its going. Then through an obscure twitter tweet announce that a core dev actually hasnt been wokring on it for a week... Opppps sorry guys. Then is mia... Like come on.... Thank you, that is exactly what I meant. |
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Totally agree! But pressure I mean it more in a psychological way. Imagine you begin with such a project. And you make it very good. You work hard and for the most you are Jesus, because the price is rising etc. But also: The price does not reflect everytime how much you invest in it. The Community-Feedback is often disrespectful particularly the price falls or just stagnate for some weeks. A few people always starts complaining if there is not something hyping in a two-day-timeframe. And than: You see dumping. Whales who bought in early sell at the top without fundamental reasons. And: At the same time something big (PoSA) does not work out as good as intended. There are some issues and it all maybe comes together with private plans (vacation for example) and it is all very different from the plans. You are revised and your Investors are disappointed, your own investment is down, too. You need some money and you sell some of your own Coins, much cheaper as intended. There are problems inside the Team... Short: It`s a real hard time.
And in such a time, people often don't have the psychological energy to face a critic community. And every word could lead to a dump. Completely honesty can lead to a dump, even if it's just about some more time. If a Dev would say: Sorry, my daugther is ill. Family first for a week... The price would drop and some would ask: Is he lying? Manipulating? Scammer? etc.
What I want to say is: There are times, you can't do it really right. You just can do it "as right as possible" or "not too bad". And psychological... you don't get such a project out of your mind. You always know, whatever you do in private: Thousands of people are waiting for progress. That is the Master-Plan to a big burn-out. And, to make it clear: I don't want to defend the way how Alty acts in the moment. But I can imagine the pressure and I know from myself: Under pressure and nearly burn-out... all what I would like to have is just some time out. No talking, no complaining... maybe working, but without contact to people who are always pushing. I know it from my own projects (not Software but with similarities in the dynamic). And if there comes a time, one just want some rest... it all becomes a risk. The honest people could think about running away.
For me, under the line: I'm totally convinced, that Alty and nobody of the project, ever intended a scam or big manipulation. Should they give up, than because they couldn't face all the pressure in Crypto. And that's a lot...
And, to come to an end: Satoshi Nakamato had not that pressure. We all can't know, if Bitcoin would exist if he had had such pressure.
Sorry if I cannot answer to the extent this post deserves - I'm a bit short of time. What you say does make sense. At least, it's what most people holding cloak wish. But there are some inconsistencies: somebody saying that everything looks fine (some days before "The Date", maybe it was yesterday or Monday) MUST have had contact to the developer. How else would he know that everything is in time? He MUST have noticed that a developer (the one of the most important feature) is not available. I have a quite good knowledge of human nature and this looks shady, smells fishy and seems dishonest. This just keeps me from believing that he is sitting on his PC, coding the crap out of his mind. It's a feeling that has manifested itself. Maybe you are right, maybe you're not. I just don't know. I'm uncertain (the second letter of FUD - without FUD being the reason for it). For all those still invested in cloak, believing in cloak and for the community altogether, I sincerely hope that you are right. |
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However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable. I thought about this a lot. On one side, this kept me thinking the same as you do. On the other hand, I thought about it being a test round for a new way to pull money off of peoples' pockets. Trying not to do one big thing, but instead doing it slowly, looking how people react to excuses, trying to bring the price back up. Rinse and repeat and hope it pays out better than the "one big thing". I know, that even sounds more like a conspiracy. It is far fetched, but not impossible. In these day and age we are seeing very sophisticated and elaborate scams, but I hope you are wrong - for the sake of the mental health of these decent people here Anyway, I appreciate you, and the fact that we can have a healthy debate in dire circumstances such as these. It just goes to show that you are a gentleman and that's a rare thing these days, especially so on the Internet. Cheers. Thank you very much; I do appreciate your posts as well. Good conversation is important here. I don't know, but I guess that's just the way I was raised. I try to be as much myself as possible; an aspect I try to always keep in mind (more subconciously, I guess) while writing on the internet. Because it's so easy to make up a person on the internet one always wanted to be. I don't like that. So, to the rest of your post, the sophisticated scams: that's it! Remember how bank scams looked back in, say, 1998? I did not even understand how these scammers could make money. And look at them now... I'd still say I'm kind of (kind of, not totally, as one never knows) immune to the current bank scams. And in crypto? Heck, one does not even always realize falling prey to a scam, as it often just looks like "well, it didn't work out". The thing is - and people tend to forget that from time to time - we're operating in an area which is all about money. The fascinating part is that it's connected to a somewhat great, libertarian idea of "free money" ("free" from "freedom", as in "free software", not as in "free glass of beer for every 5th guest in our club tonight" ) which attracts many, many good people with the best of intentions. Often, this kind of people is not aware of all those scams taking place, because as good people, they avoided shady people in their "pre-crypto" life. Now here, those shady people and those with good intentions get mixed together. I think this is a very interesting social aspect which deserves being watched and analyzed. This hasn't happened before; bitcointalk.org is the central that administrates the big, virtual house/city/whatever where honest people often work together with scammers without even knowing it. And those scammers are good. It is already widely known what people do in the real world to get their hands on foreign money. And on the internet, there were also scams. Guys selling on eBay without ever delivering. They knew that one day, the police would knock on their door and, depending on how much they scammed, they might go to prison. Accepted risk. Now imagine the potential of a world that offers a kind of pseudonymity which - if done right - makes it nearly impossible to be found. A world which is all about money! Money is its base. Imagine how many scammers become attracted to this, and even imagine how many future scammers are right now about to "learn Bitcoin" to become a pro scammer in the next years! One should really do the work to calculate the sum of all known crypto scams, set it in relation to the timeframe in which crypto exists and to the size of the community/the marketcap of the according coins which were stolen. I'd guess that the relation of scams here is irrationally high, compared to the one in "real life". Not sure if I manage to reply again, today. It's evening already and I got some stuff to do. |
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It hasn't even finished going down. Who on earth should pump cloak (notice how I stopped using capital letters for cloak? heh) right now? |
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You guys seem like nice people interested in anonymous cryptocurrency, but honestly is surprising how group psychology works and how people can get blindly behind an idea without any proof of progress. You were dealing with anonymous developers with no real life consequence after scamming you guys, they will be gone and there is nothing you can do. You guys had no public testing of anything, no bug reporting and project management interface, nothing. How could you truly believe something was going to be released out of nowhere.
To be open, I am a Darkcoin supporter, but it seems to be very clear that this project did not include elements that would give any serious investor confidence to put their money in.
In Darkcoin we have:
1. Transparent Developers
2. A foundation liable for the project has been registered as an LLC in the USA.
3. A public testing thread on the forum where everybody contributes to testing future releases and interacts with the developer before a release date is set.
4 A Jira Bug tracking page to manage bug reports and project management.
5. A very active testnet.
6. True and proven innovation that is already making impact in the crypto scene: x11, DGW3, Masternodes, Darksend+
4. A third party review by Kristov Atlas that everybody will get to see.
5. Darksend+ will be open source soon
Why didn’t you require the same things from your team? Anyway, you are still on time, as Darkcoin will be opensourcing Darksend soon. If you are still interested in anon cryptocurrencies, spend some time learning about Darkcoin and if you like it invest in it.
I hope people didnt get hurt too bad on this, best of luck to you all.
Your arguments are good. To answer it (at least for me): it was a bit of greed. High volume, many waves. What kept me in after the big drop was the need to cover my losses, and finally, after some hard trading, the opportunity to get out while breaking even. At work, we also use JIRA (and Confluence, Bitbucket, Bamboo, ...). Those are tools which are ideal (if not requirement, at least some of them or similar tools like Redmine) for a serious project. What do we have here? Fancy PDFs. You are totally right, we should require at least a project management tool. If I ever calm down and decide to get back in, maybe I could help setup a Redmine installation, so the team can do some SCRUM to have timeframes for the project and, finally, some kind of system in their development. This would render the fancy PDFs obsolete, as everyone would know what's happening and, for fucks sake, the team could notice early when somebody just doesn't show up for several days. |
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I've give this a lot of thought in the last weeks. Your argument is valid and it cannot be easily refuted. You are doing due diligence and it is what real investors are supposed to do. Believe me, me too. However, the one thing that strikes me as unusual, is the fact that they are acting completely opposite of the way scammers would act. I mean for instance, yesterday if Alty wanted to pump up the price and sell his coins at profit he could have made his tweet a complete fabrication and something to rile the people up like "Yeah we are just finishing Beta testing - the final version of OneMarket is out tomorrow at 2 pm GMT". Doing things like this could have significantly increased the profits of the devs if they are indeed doing insider trading. Yet his tweet yesterday was blank and non-descript - so the whole idea of them trying to pull such an elaborate scam is questionable. I thought about this a lot. On one side, this kept me thinking the same as you do. On the other hand, I thought about it being a test round for a new way to pull money off of peoples' pockets. Trying not to do one big thing, but instead doing it slowly, looking how people react to excuses, trying to bring the price back up. Rinse and repeat and hope it pays out better than the "one big thing". I know, that even sounds more like a conspiracy. I mean you are basically throwing out a conspiracy theory that for the last two months a group of at least a dozen people have been pulling the strings of the half crypto community. Wouldn't there be any leaks, and proof that such a conspiracy was going on, or a rumour or at least a whisper from someone who knows the devs - No. We haven't seen it such a thing at all. I agree, at least partially. Therefore, I accept your argument as having a solid foundation, but consider my points for a minute if you have the time.
For sure, I'm doing that. |
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Where is the one market ?
There.Is.No.Such.Thing. There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket". Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later. Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by. Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some. I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world. But you can draw your own conclusions. I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different. To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features there are supposed to be? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket). Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it? Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat. Still, I hope I'm wrong. PoSA exists. There were the testings. There were the differences between MrRGnome and the team but even if he was very disappointed, he also confirmed that it's all there. This is absolutely no Scam. If it would be one, they would have announced a passed audit, than sold .....and away. The problem is: There are delays. It's not the first one. But, even this I don't see as a big problem if there is communication. And in the first time there was a lot of communication and explanation. But now... one Tweet. That's all. And T H A T , for me, is the biggest problem and it threatens the whole project, because it looks fishy. Some think they are gone. Others think they could intend a price-drop to buy before the release and so on. I personally think: They are under a lot of pressure and they don't know how to handle it. They don't want questions and they don't want to answer these questions. Therefore they avoid communicative ways like IRC or Forum. But I also think: There will be a release. First, I like it how different points of view can be discussed here w/o being called a fucker, a retard, a fudder or whatsoever. Next, I know PoSA exists. I'm talking about events which took place after the famous audit. If they are under pressure, that would mean they work hard because they care about their product. Caring about a product in cryptoworld means that it should be used because the price reflects its state in the community. So it would be very important to get this PR thing done (maybe by asking someone else to do it), because this kind of "PR" (also related to this forum, clowns like YourMother etc just don't work for PR) totally destroys the coin. I doubt they don't know that. So if they decide to not care about PR, they might not care much about cloaks image, place in the community etc. And a product I don't care about... I wouldn't invest time in development. Do you understand what I'm trying to say? This whole thing I mentioned earlier, plus the PR, leave the impression that the coin is just a means to an end. Not for the community, of course. Again, I hope I'm wrong. |
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Where is the one market ?
There.Is.No.Such.Thing. There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket". Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later. Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by. Alty said onemarket will be tested on testnet soon. It was supposed to be today, A simple delay means "there was never a OneMarket" to some. I think it is just a delay, very common in the programming world. But you can draw your own conclusions. I admire people who can still be positive. Also, I'm a programmer by profession and I know about the delays. But this is something completely different. To me, it's just a feeling: we have announcements, nice PDFs but where are the things that are listed on those PDFs? Does anyone even know what half of the features are? At the moment, they are just pastime for guessing funny acronyms. Everything gets delayed, we hear that something will come without anyone even knowing what that is supposed to be (besides OneMarket). Just think about it. In the last two months, couldn't it maybe be possible that there wasn't anything being developed on cloak? Regarding everything we got, was there anything, any sneek peek to what's being developed? Has anybody ever seen any development in the past weeks? I mean, not just heard about it? Maybe I'm wrong (I would be glad to be wrong [see, YourMother: no problem admitting being wrong]), but to me it could also be likely that this coin is just being used to produce some money by releasing news from time to time. Nice and easy income, rinse and repeat. Still, I hope I'm wrong. |
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lol call me stupid but i'm still buying on the dips.
I think it's worth the risk, *shoulder shrug*
If yall are right, you get to tell me "i told you so" by the end of the week.
The majority of my cloak was purchased on "06/12/2014 16:28:09" according to my bittrex history, so i guess you can call me a bagholder
I wish you best of luck. Hope it works out for you and I also hope you're really thick-skinned. |
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Where is the one market ?
There.Is.No.Such.Thing. There wasn't, there hasn't been, there isn't, there won't be and there won't have been anything called "OneMarket". Or, to say it with some altered form of community's members' words: mark my words and you'll cry later. Finally, I turned into a cynicist. Hope this condition passes as time goes by. |
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There is no more trust, it has all gone. I mean, a major release with an announcement doubling the value of the coin and the project leader not knowing about the absence of a Dev for five fuckin days?
C'mon...
I'm a bit pissed for not selling yesterday (as I intended to do, but some real life crap prevented me from doing so), but I sold today. I set a small buy order at 26ish, which I expect to become filled today, when there is no more announcement about anything new.
Tbh, I don't think there was any development on OneMarket and other features. Ever.
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I love how this place turns to shit when I sell 20k cloak...
I still own another 80k and don't plan on selling. If you knew what I knew you'd be buying
LMAO, you were not the reason for the decline in price... |
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