If it was a gift, then the purchase price was 0 dollars. unless you know how to trade, or are really on top of the news and think you can predict the trends based off of it, you will always do better to hold.

think years, not months.

if we pull up the historical btc price chart, it only really goes up ( the mt gox slide is protracted, but doesnt follow the general, undeniable uptrend. therefore, it seems like in this very bullish market, you would do well to simply hold the btc. at the very least, wait for us to regain 5k again. we will most likely surge past it (to be honest, wait for 7-10k)

LOL. But at least you can wear gold; it's one of the 'features'  of an actual, physical substance. You really can't do anything with a Crypto except spend it, or possess it. You can use gold for art, technology, medicine. In addition to all that utility, it's a really old, really trusted store of value. Bitcoin is just numbers, information in a database.

Yeah, it has grown a lot, in price, but why? What has changed that suddenly makes bitcoin so valuable, that we have reached these price levels? This is the same bitcoin we have had, with a fee tweaks, since the beginning.

I would send this with like, the lowest fee possible, and convert it to a really low value but high capitalization altcoin (Doge for example). If you want to move it/trade it at that point, you will be subject to really low fees (you will be eaten alive by fees if you keep this as bitcoin).

Nowadays, this is how I treat my dust. It used to be worth it to consolidate dust in a single wallet; now the fees are so outrageous you may as well just leave it in the wallet.

This also works well with Ripple.

They would pretty much have to outlaw peer to peer BTC to Fiat transactions, and only allow accredited exchanges to handle these conversions. This would also require every exchange to conduct complete AML/KYC, even if the user trades under the established daily transaction limit (2-2.5k, varies per exchange).

This will just make folks switch to the truly anon cryptos. The technology is already well beyond the level of regulation.

Bitcoin fees are just fine ,:) if you send enough money

Consider. If you were sending 10 BTC, a 5 dollar fee doesn't seem that bad at all. But for smaller, more casual transactions, the fees are sometimes more than the payment, or at least an unacceptable percentage. This has everything to do with the price; this will be a major barrier to adoption. And given how bullish bitcoin has been of late, this particular caveat will only get worse.

'Casual transactions' my ass.

Bitcoin, at the current price level, really isn't working out that well for everyday transactions. .while the overwhelming majority of alts are indeed shit coins (doesn't present innovation to the space), some alts are unique and serve niche purposes in the sphere. ETH is way better with layers (tether is crazy bad slow). Doge is good, the best tbh, for really fast, low cost micro transactions. And LTC is damn near as old as bitcoin, hasn't forked like we have and doesn't have the politics. Honestly, I prefer LTC transactions over BTC, if not just for the speed.

Miners are the ones that get the fees. The assumption is, especially now with larger blocks, is that if the system actually lasts til this point, it should be a given that adoption scaled with it. The fees at this point should surpass the proportionate share of block rewards. We will also assume it should be much, much cheaper to mine in general, as the mining technology should be hyper efficient by this point as well.

Welcome to the board

The current situation is a great example of why gold beats bitcoin as a store of value, but not as a speculative instrument. Gold, on its worst day, would never devalue this much. If gold starts to downtrend, it will be much, much slower, and you will be able to get out, at least, before you run to ruin. cryptos, on the other hand, do exactly what happened last night: devalue drastically and suddenly before one can react, and stay depressed enough to trigger poor sentiment and additional selling pressure.

bitcoin is like, a decade old. gold, is fucking ancient take the sure bet

Chinas transition into the one is kinda inevitable at this point, given the state of disarray in American politics. But, this isnt that.

China is not digging the vast fortunes being made by its low income citizens, it is disrupting society (you cant have the poor folks getting rich all of a sudden, its unseemly LOL) The PBoC literally states that ICO's have "seriously disrupted the economic and financial order". Yes, there have been some scams, but this to me seems more about the competition that crypto markets are giving traditional exchanges in China (who in the blue fuck would by a traditional asset, when you could have bought NEO?).  Notice that instead of just banning future ICOs, they are making investors return funds, which is a bit overkill unless you want things to return to as they were.

really curious to see how those companies are going to return spent money

Dude, it is sooo easy to buy bitcoin.


I dont know where you live. But here in the States, buying into an investment is a lengthy, arduous process. It takes 2-3 days to transfer fiat to an account, a day for a trade to settle, and 3 base days to liquidate a postion and have it reconcile. It will still take the same 2-3 days to withdraw that fiat to your bank account.

I can sell bitcoin on LBC, and have the money in a few hours tops. Same if I buy.

Compared to traditional stocks, bitcoin is like, fast as fuck.

Bitcoin will never die, unless all governments outlaw bitcoin unilaterally, and find a way to filter bitcoin web traffic. This is the main caveat of bitcoin; you have to get every last node to kill the whole network (decentralization FTW). But people could largely stop using bitcoin; this would only happen if the price took a major, epic dive ( im talking back to 1000). This would indicate a lack of trust/confidence. The only way I could see that happening is if a major exploit/vulnerability is found.

Even then, there would be die hards that would patch it, fork it, and keep it moving LOL.

I wonder about this too. The more we hold because its so hard to spend, the more the price goes up (well that and the ceaseless enthusiasm of bitcoin investors). The higher the price goes up, the less feasible it is to use bitcoin as money, given the fees. Im starting to think bitcoin isnt really appropriate for day to day transactions; in this price range, it really is better served being a store of value rather than a currency. We will be spending satoshis if we keep this unsustainable price growth up.

And due to AML/KYC in the states, if you convert btc to fiat electronically, you are looking at base three days until you see cash. If you use any other method (in person, bank deposits via LBC), you run a risk of being scammed, or at the least, having your funds held during an escrow dispute for some unknown amount of time.

So I've long considered becoming a bailbondsman (its a hell of a process in the state i live in). Given that my other income streams tend to overwhelmingly be crypto, I have also toyed with the idea of accepting bitcoin for bail purposes.

Im torn. On the one hand, bitcoin still isnt really that popular. Virtually no one will actually choose this particular option, but it would make the business attractive specifically to those that get in trouble and already have bitcoin. For this reason, I wonder if it would be worth it. Bitcoin is already associated with criminality in the public eye, esp as of late. This could potentially be a bad look for bitcoin, in the right situation.

on the other hand, would I be opening myself up to a can of legal worms? its property, so according to my research i should be able to accept it. with that being said, the volatility REALLY matters in this case (I would need to maintain the fiat equivalent for legal reasons). also. I wonder if my bitcoin could be seized, if those funds could be connected to the crime that put my client in jail.

Over all, it seems more hassle than a boon.

What do you guys think?

Hey peeps, GB here.

Have we ever considered the risks of crypto investment for those that don't have alot/invest more than they should, esp in economically repressed nations?


The volatility really makes holding a danger unless you can afford a possible, prolonged down. And for truly economically depressed areas, even a rally can be potentially dangerous. Consider. Say you have a village that goes into bitcoin heavily. If the price rallies, the sudden value added to that economy would elevate demand for consumer goods/ necessities, as more people would have more disposable income to spend. This would price the folks out of the market that didnt invest (bread would be 10 bucks all of a sudden because the demand has risen and supply is still at the same level.

Inversely, if an investment goes really south; given the tendency for the less fortunate to go all in/mostly in on an investment, there is an actual potential for ruin, to a population that least can afford a huge financial drawdown. A 50% retraction (it has happened) would mean having 50% of the bills instead of 100%. This is even more daunting considering that bitcoin is often presented as "the solution to poverty". This volatility makes holding fiat a way better option; fiat will not devalue as suddenly, and as dramatically.

Thoughts?

Exactly. I personally would love for Uber to do this, simply because it would make my life a little easier from time to time (actually its still easier to use a Shift card). But it should be inside the app, as a payment option. Bitcoin without a payment portal (coinbase, bitpay) is a cumbersome thing, and anything more cumbersome that a card swipe is not going to be favored, if just for the sake of speed.

Placing signs in the cars might make more people aware of bitcoin, but wont necessarily fuel adoption. Knowing about bitcoin isnt the same as actually having bitcoin. And people that buy bitcoin (new adopters) arent looking to spend it; they are holding to speculate.

But like I said, this would be great for those that already have bitcoin, and use Uber frequently.

Is it just me?

Save using gift cards, or the rate app portal, I basically have no choice but to use a bitcoin debit card if I actually want to spend my BTC. I have never actually seen a real store that actually accepts bitcoin. At least a brick and mortar. I live in NC, near the SC border. save the Research Triangle, bitcoin is still absolutely unknown in these parts. Is it better in more metropolitan areas, or is this pretty much the case across the whole US?

BD, i usually don't challenge you anymore, but re ALex Jones. DO you really believe that there are reptilian aliens? With the logic defying shit that he has said, do you really believe that this guy is sane?


The prison is fear, friend. He offers no relief from this jailer. He is a fearmonger, plain and simple. No monger will obtain the Kingdom; theirs is a love of the cause they champion (fear, war, whores, its all substance).

How did we get here, dammit? In Rome, they would have laughed at this man for his delusion. In Greece. In Timbuktu. Why have we given up on thinking as Americans? Is the hatred really so keen, that we would field obvious nonsense in the name of "facts", and eschew the media outlets that have served as "news" since their inception?

I will link to a clip of him talking (to hilarious music), if anyone on the board can defend this, by all means, we ALL want to hear this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWd6XgBVIcg

I get some of us on this board dont trust the gov, and dont trust the msm. but really, is this the alternative?


I understand that 1/3 of us will not open their eyes to what is transpiring. So, I simply wait for it all to come to a head.

Actually, in my opinion all these celebrity crypto endorsements are hurting us. The people that prop up bitcoin never explain it, and there is seemingly no interest beyond a paid endorsement. Why is this the first time we are hearing about crypto from Cena? Take Mayweather as another example. Was cool when he promoted STOX. When he promoted the second ICO, it became obvious he was getting paid to tweet

The TenX promotion on the Simpsons, however, was epic.  It was actually funny

If we all hold, the price will only continue to go up. Even beyond these ridiculous levels.

This is a supply and demand game. We, as hodlers, are that supply. As far as the market is concerned, selling your bitcoin on the exchange is the same as buying a cup of coffee with it, its a sell order for all practical purposes. BTC/USD volume does the same as BTC/CUPOFFCOFFEE.
If no one is "selling" (this is impossible, someone will always take profit in a sea of actors), there is no opportunity to "buy". The bids will keep increasing, making this even more of a bubble, until someone freaks out from all the profit potential and dumps on all those delicious bids.

Reconsider. Science and the Lord reconcile just fine. We are working from two different paradigms, so bear with me here. I assume you would posit that science is a child of Man, the collective fruit of our pursuit towards betterment. As a Christian, all things that are, are a function of God. A core tenant of the faith is free will, so I believe that Science is the amount of collective knowledge we have been allowed to achieve. There are scriptures concerning the Flood that detail the dissemination of certain sciences by certain angels, who were punished for this. Also, if you are familiar, notice the Tower of Babel. One of the greatest collective works of man, the Lord chose to destroy and confuse this work, rather than let it proliferate. This may seem cruel, but I believe this was a forethought; the inherent nature of Man means when we cooperate on a grand scale, we are capable of the grandest evils.

We conflate wisdom and knowledge. Our book rewards us for the accrual of wisdom, but my impression is that excessive knowledge, or the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, can damn a person.

Also, one more point to consider. When you strip the "mythology" away from my faith, you arrive at two core points:

Respect the Lord above all things, and,

Treat other people in the manner you wish to be treated.

In the interest of a progressive society, where a culture can thrive and further the aim of science, do you not agree with these core tenants?

and if you do, then what so bad about Christianity?   Don't confuse the practitioners with the practice, it is easy, I know.

Its not an attack, just something to chew on. Have a good day broseph.