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1661  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 17, 2021, 09:14:11 AM
I should have been nicer.
 Cry Cry Cry Cry

Being nice feels good after all  Cool

Careful with the "nice" part, especially when dealing with potentially disingenuine folks on the interwebs, including some of them either wanting to get any foothold to infiltrate shitcoins into the topic, or to denigrate bitcoin in various ways or even to present misleading information about bitcoins in a kind of ongoing pattern that seems to be intended to dissuade investment into bitcoin.

Surely, each of us is not going to find the same balances, and for sure, sometimes the topics are just seen differently, but still even on a substantive level, sometimes it might not be a good idea to concede or to be too nice in terms of making concessions...

For example, there are some members who want to suggest that bitcoin should be treated the same as if it were some kind of a mature stock, and surely that could be an honest attempt at an argument, even though there is likely a lot of baloney in that kind of a framework, and there might not be a need to be going along with that framework and to be nice about it because it is not accurate in terms of talking about specific aspects of a paradigm shifting value transferring asset such as bitcoin. 

Another angle are those folks who seem to be wanting to present their lil selfies as so much smarter than everyone else in terms of coming up with their own BTC price prediction models, and sure their models (or at least their short-term predictions) might well come true, but many times they might be presenting their BTC price prediction models while wanting to denigrate the actual credible and most convincing of current BTC price prediction models and to prematurely proclaim that there is a bear market towards the bottom of the BTC price correction.. .Had you not noticed?  hopefully not too many people sold at those upper $20ks or lower $30k prices to hopefully buy back at lower prices and maybe the less problematic area are merely those newbie folks who decided NOT to buy bitcoin at those prices because they anticipated the BTC price to be going lower.  Are those genuine claims of a bear market?  perhaps?  probably not..

The currently convincing BTC price prediction models include 1) stock to flow, 2) 4-year fractal and 3) exponential s-curve adoption based on networking effects and Metcalfe principles.  I would not even suggest that guys have too agree with those particular BTC price prediction models but trying to act like they do not exist and just spinning your own models as if those current credible model do not exist do not seem to be genuine ways of arguing about bitcoin or discussing it.. especially when it sometimes seems intentional.. so I am questioning why I would need to be nice in those contexts, either... do you have an answer for that?

By the way, when we go to have a beer someday OOM, it would quite likely be that we would not need to present any of our ideas in any kind of argumentative ways, because if you and I are talking about various bitcoin ideas and we do not agree, we can change the topic or just agree to disagree, and if no one is listening in on our conversation then it might not matter so much about whether disingenuine claims and arguments are being made, so we just go on and drink our beers and talk about the sheds that we happen to be building in our back yards.

On the other hand, if we are on a stage, and there are 50 people in the audience, then we might feel more investment in making sure that we are not misleading anyone in the audience about the materials and information that are being presented - including if factually inaccurate or logically inconsistent information is being presented.. Nice might work in that context, but it might not be the way to deal with matters.. even though in person people do tend to be nicer, overall and they tend to NOT be making outrageous and disingenuine claims as frequently either, as compared with how online communications can sometimes devolve in those kinds of disingenuine ways.

I agree with all of that.
I should have written "It always feels good to be nice, but it not always is good to be nice".
Some lines need to be drawn very sharp, though.

The other thing:
Online communication is prone to error by it's nature. We communicate way more flawlessly when we can see, hear and get to known to each other. Many communication signals are omitted by using text-only communication. Seems I don't find the link to the study, but if i do, i'll post it here.

We may well have a beer at the $1m party  Grin
1662  Other / Off-topic / Re: Request for Donations to Provide Funding for Biliary Atresia Surgery for Infant on: September 17, 2021, 07:40:39 AM
done. In the end, children (EDIT: and educating them) are the most precious investment into our future.
1663  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 17, 2021, 07:12:05 AM

 Undecided

Remarkable age, by the way.
(Thinking about the ZX-81)


Look at the comments. NFT seems to sport a community of the most noble members. NOT!
A fast NFT bubble-pop would seem like a karmic cleansing, imo.

I also came here for a bit of a humanitarian request. A trusted friend, whom I met on these very forums, asked me to post something. He knows a very poor filipino family, through his fiance, and they currently have an infant who will certainly die without an expensive surgery:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5360407

No pressure, of course, but if you'd like to contribute a little bit of your profits, the money will really be a big help to them.

As a father of four, i spared some sats. It's not much, but if only about 70 hodlers would do the same, the goal would be achieved.
It's not much anyway, compared to western standard costs for medical treatment.

I should have been nicer.
 Cry Cry Cry Cry

Being nice feels good after all  Cool
1664  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 16, 2021, 07:07:14 PM

Darwin, nature and all. Some will get it, some won't. That's life. I feel I did my part in spreading the word when I could, and I still do if I see really genuine interest.

You, me and OOM seems to be saying very similar things here.. just using different words.

I agree.
Especially you and me, we have a history of saying similar things using different words, which brought us to some temporarily heated discussions, occasionally.

Hopefully, not too heated.   #nohomo

Thanks to AlcoHODL and all the other bro's here around that are able to further "translate" my words into their original meaning  Cool

hahahaha

Their "original meaning"..

Didn't find a better term, sry.


And that's all we need in these here parts... another disappeared WO regular.

So true and whenever i think about some of those disappeared regulars, it feels very strange. Especially in these very covid times...

Of course, we are all mortal (unless we happen to be a "lucky" Turing-complete bot, and what are the odds of that?) - so peeps are going to disappear for sometimes unknown reasons.. and what is this thread?  around 8.5 years long in the tooth?

The last words i heard of one of my best friends were "see you tomorrow". I guess this is coloring my emotions on these kind of topics.
1665  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 16, 2021, 06:36:06 PM

And that's all we need in these here parts... another disappeared WO regular.

So true and whenever i think about some of those disappeared regulars, it feels very strange. Especially in these very covid times...
1666  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 16, 2021, 06:22:55 PM

Darwin, nature and all. Some will get it, some won't. That's life. I feel I did my part in spreading the word when I could, and I still do if I see really genuine interest.

You, me and OOM seems to be saying very similar things here.. just using different words.

I agree.
Especially you and me, we have a history of saying similar things using different words, which brought us to some temporarily heated discussions, occasionally.
Thanks to AlcoHODL and all the other bro's here around that are able to further "translate" my words into their original meaning  Cool
1667  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2021, 06:57:37 PM
^ I actually catch myself more often thinking what china actually wants to achieve, lately.
Seems they are blindly trying to fix (economic) holes, not aware of the medium- and long-term consequences.
Short: "How to fail".

EDIT:
See, see... Bitcoin knocking at the € 41.000 door again.
Shouldn't take long until "the market" will open it  Grin

EDIT2: Of course, China may get a grip on their economy if they radically change it. They held the most powerful tool in their hands already, then they banned it, because they were too dumb to efficiently use their energy resources to get a significant share. But when you look at their totalitarian leaders, it was best this way for the rest of the world.
1668  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2021, 06:50:57 PM
The people of El Salvador are protesting against Bitcoin bill
https://cryptoslate.com/the-people-of-el-salvador-are-protesting-against-bitcoin-bill/

Probably CIA backed, some things never change.

Also, these are a nor more than handful of El Salvadorians.
MSM: "The people of El Salvador..."

We call this "Bullshit Bingo" hereabouts.

...

To sum it up: I'd try to convince a nocoiner about the sanity of Bitcoin one time. If he/she doesn't get it, or is already "clever enough", just like the two selfmade shitcoin traders in my lil story from two days ago, i'll let it go. If i really like or care about somebody, i'd try again after a while. Then i just leave them up to themselves, in regards of Bitcoin.


https://www.cryptocraft.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3817847&stc=1&d=1608562267

Merited, mainly because it's so sadly true and ironic at the same time.

1669  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2021, 06:44:30 PM
[edited out]

The "pyramid scheme" was an attempt to raise understanding WHY nocoiners still see Bitcoin as such, while the actual happenings (history) of Bitcoin show that it's not really the case.
People tend to simplify (as do i in my argumentation more often than not). It's easier for them to remember the pyramid scheme narrative than educate themselves in Bitcoin, economy and sound money principles. Bringing in the "pyramd scheme argument" was a perfect move and the narrative grew successfully.
Now it's harder to get followers of the "pyramid scheme conspiracy" educated. A (temporary) win for the "fiat society", because people tend to stay with simple explanations and affirmations. Most people do hard to change their beliefs. Give a simple explanation for a complex question (on a complex subject) and the most dumbest guy/gal will "understand".

We can agree to disagree..  As I already attempted to explain, I consider that the pyramid scheme framework is the opposite of helpful because it is misleading about what bitcoin is, even if people might be able to relate to such a framework.

That is an important factor of AlcoHODL's collegues and relatives NOT really understanding Bitcoin, because they think they already do.

I have my doubts about if AlcoHoDL would be presenting the pyramid scheme as an educative framework to explain bitcoin, unless he were merely striving to contrast bitcoin with such scheme in some kind of way.

Perhaps AlcoHoDL could chime in on this point in terms of whether he would use a pyramid scheme framework to explain bitcoin, merely as a contrast or in some other way.. As I already mentioned, seems distracting and misleading in terms of costs versus benefits in using it rather than helpful from my point of view.

Second biggest factor: Trust.
Humans trust information more, the closer the relation is to the informer. We don't want to be alone, we don't want to decide alone, so we take over narratives from people we look up to, as well as from people we relate to on the "same height of sight" (as we tend to say in my country). While people like us (WO's) are likely seen as freaks by normie nocoiners, they tend to keep trust to information from other normie nocoiners, which form a bigger group they feel related to, while we may seem like mavericks.

Fair enough.  There surely is going to be a need to attempt to relate to any audience that we have, and surely any audience is going to be more receptive when able to relate - but I doubt that should mean that we give up and say that we are ONLY going to allow nocoiners to educate other nocoiners, because then they would be just sharing a circle of ongoing retard.

In the background it's even more complicated, just wanted to highlight the simple aspects that stand out more.
To keep it short: Peeps either doing something or not, they are basically driven by fear or love. They fear (refuse) things they don't know, they love (accept) things they do know.

With almost any kind of learning, especially something that seems daunting and complicated, it can take quite a bit of time to get to various points of understanding... so sure, the more that is understood about basics, then the easier it becomes to learn more complicated ideas after gaining more foundational understandings.  And, sure many times, many of us fear being overwhelmed by too much information and we have to attempt to learn at a pace that allows the information to sink in rather than completely going passed us.

Strangely, my attention was always drawn to the unknown (which provided me fantastic experiences in the past and present, by the way).

Of course, some people are more adventurous than others in terms of desires to learn, and even some people who might not have tended to be intellectually curious can sometimes be brought around to increasing their intellectual curiosity after they learn some basics that they had not previously understood.  Surely, people are not necessarily going to totally transform their way of being or their seemingly natural inclinations, but sometimes they will develop curiosities in areas that had previously been uninteresting to them.

EDIT: Fuck, missed to break CB triplet by a minute :/

You slowpoke!!!!!!!    Angry Angry Angry

I see your point. Let's move away from the pyramid thing, because it's an explanation only nocoiners tend to use, anyway.
THB, when i originally wrote it, i had that feeling it might go wrong a little (way less worse than expected, though).

There's a big problem with education. Most people don't want to get educated, because it makes them feel dumb.
... let that sink in first.

Only 10 more seconds...

It makes them feel dumb because they think they already know enough about (Bitcoin. Mainly because someone, or the MSM channels they trust).
So they unconsciously think if someone educates them about something they already (believe) to know, the one educating them is looking down on them.
This is because most humans are still more like apes. Give em a pussy/dick and a banana, they're happy. Take their pussy/dick away (or their banana), they get angry.
It's only that we all learned to communicate and imagine on a high level, which in turn built so much brain mass, that almost nobody is able to use it in a sane way.
The imagination factor, in contrast to chimpanzees, makes them even angry when they imagine someone takes their banana (or pussy... you know the deal).
This way, "normal" peeps are easy to manipulate. Just tell them they gonna lose their wealth when investing it into a new digital money they can't touch and spend at Walmart, and those who had it first will sell it later for them to lose. It's sufficient to put off 99% of peeps investing into Bitcoin. Repeat it often enough and they will also spread the word, effectively becoming educators themselves.
So imagine AlcoHODL walks up tp these people, tells them about Bitcoin, they laugh about him, thinking to be more educated than he is about BTC.
There is very little chance to make them understand even the core principles of BTC, because every explanation will trigger a millisecond response from their mind. Like "i know already, BTC is a scam, we all know. Only AlcoHODL puts in all his money, which he is gonna lose for sure. What a moron. And then he's trying to convince us... LOL" - They are not even aware of those internal responses of their mind, because they are just impulsive feelings, summaries of a contextual "knowledge" they have built over time.
I was a hardcore leftie when i was young, so i learned not to trust banks pretty soon, to question WHY somebody is super successful or rich. For me, Bitcoin was a revolution in itself, as soon as i educated myself about it. Nobody walked up to me and said: "have you heard of that new internet money?".

To sum it up: I'd try to convince a nocoiner about the sanity of Bitcoin one time. If he/she doesn't get it, or is already "clever enough", just like the two selfmade shitcoin traders in my lil story from two days ago, i'll let it go. If i really like or care about somebody, i'd try again after a while. Then i just leave them up to themselves, in regards of Bitcoin.
1670  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2021, 07:13:35 AM

Shit. He wasn't that old, was he?
Makes me want to watch all seasons all over again (one of the rare shows i bought all dvd's of).

Jason Lee also was a successful Skateboarder, co-founded a skateboarding brand before he went doing movies through Beverly Hills 90210.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shKJ3kcSkh0
1671  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 15, 2021, 07:02:59 AM

You see, #hodl is in fact a lifestyle.
You either just fit in, adapt to it, or you stay out.
Now guess what your nocoiner friends/collegues/relatives are like... Grin

Sorry to say that, but you really tried to help them, they didn't listen. Now that they are #HFSP, they have no chance but continue watching from the sideline in apathy.

That comes off as an improper framework.

You seem to be just reiterating the part that almost all of them believe, which is largely:
"bitcoin is like a stock and if it pumps, it can ONLY pump so much, so since bitcoin has already pumped 10x, 1,000x and 10,000x - depending on when beginning the base measurement - it is not capable of pumping more; therefore, I am too late."

That's not true.  They are not too late.

It is true that bitcoin has pumped

It is true that bitcoin has pumped a lot

It is true that it would have been better getting in earlier

It is NOT true that bitcoin does not remain a great investment with a lot more upside potential

It is NOT true that nocoiners are too late


Surely, we can say HFSP (have fun staying poor) but some of those folks will still end up coming around and can still come around - even if BTC pumps another 1,000x from here (that would be $46.6 million per coin), the investment thesis for bitcoin will not disappear, even if it costs more per unit to get it.. whether merely satoshi's can be afforded that time, and our 0.21BTC or our 0.63BTC collections are looking quite sweet at those BTC price levels.

Actually, some people will come around by just creating some kind of account and starting to invest $10 per week... but yes.. it is a whole hell of a lot of work, just to get them to carry out what (to us) seems to be the bare bones basics.


If you want to change your life, you have to act. Waiting is a trap. Especially in regards to get into Bitcoin long term.

Exactly.. that's why some will likely act later.. they are not trapped forever in HFSP.. even though relatively speaking they are going to likely end up being less richie.. but whatever.. we can ONLY do so much to help these normie peeps.. If they are not ready.. they are not ready.. I am not going to walk them through every single step.. especially if they are making too much work for me out of the project.  Of course, if they are showing interest.. and taking a wee bit of a humble pill, then yes, I will help them to set up an account or point them in a direction where they can learn more or even talk through a few of the matters that they might not want to read. but they learn by talking through the matter, but they have to take some actions rather than my having to drag them through each step... for example.. work on sending me a BTC address and then I can send you .00021BTC or something like that.. do something... do something... act excited about the info.. that's a start.

I'm not in the situation to reply to all of this in detail, but i wrote in a way that kind of overexagerrated the apathy part.
Now, i do think some of them will change (in figures of the 20/80 rule). Some problem with groups (co-workers) is, they tend to internally agree and sympathize, so i don't expect the co-workers are able to change their common narratives on Bitcoin.
I think it works more like so: Co-worker A hears from more friends or relatives over time that they discovered, understood and had success with Bitcoin (or "crypto").
He then starts off with a little set-and-forget buy, switches to lump-sum or DCA later, makes the same mistakes most newbies made and becomes a #hodler.
When he is successful and educated enough, he will probably slip into AlcoHODL's role and talk about in the co-worker circle.
It really gets on like in a pyramid scheme, but we know that this comparison/term is bullshit, when it comes to Bitcoin, but at least can push more people to FOMO-in, which is the way PS's work. Atomic social systems, if you know what i mean...

I don't disagree with anything that you are saying OOM.. just I am not sure why you really even need to go down the pyramid scheme analogy path - because there are some built-in appropriatenesses in using that kind of a description of how people might become more convinced about bitcoin.

For sure, there is going to be some blind-word of mouth aspects regarding bitcoin's continued and ongoing adoption - and sure that word of mouth component coupled with the recognition of past profits gets some folks to either blindly go into bitcoin or to go in with those kinds of superficial ideas about helping the pump.

There may well even be a whole hell of a lot of us in this thread who do not really understand bitcoin very well and we are just here because of the NGU (number go up) technology, and I am not even proclaiming that everyone necessarily needs to understand bitcoin beyond the NGU aspects of it.

For sure, it is not even uncommon for a large number of folks to come into bitcoin, and really to know nothing beyond looking at the charts or some other superficial assessment.  I am not really proclaiming my lil selfie to be very much of an exception to the rule except that I was already coming to bitcoin in late 2013 while looking for a dollar hedge and a gold replacement..... but even if I might have had one aspect of what I was looking for that caused aspects of bitcoin to resonate with me, I had continuously been an advocate of continuing to study and to attempt to learn as I went.. in terms of trying to get better understandings of what bitcoin was and part of my attraction to participating regularly in this forum/thread - once I was referred to it.

I do appreciate how there could be various kinds of group think that could end up going from negative to positive and therefore cause a group of associated individuals, such as coworkers to transition and then ending up transitioning based on superficial (and perhaps even nonsense - get rich quick ideas that may or may not end up playing out to their favor), and sure of course, sometimes it might not even matter so much how some individuals get into something like bitcoin because there are some pretty damned strong fundamentals that are likely going to help to gravitate some of the earlier ignorant entrance to begin to recognize and appreciate Gresham's law type principles.. even if they might not be able to articulate that is exactly the sense that they are getting in regards to spending other monies prior to touching their bitcoin.. and then the more and more those Gresham's law principles become known within their consciousness and they might even state them to their co-workers, peers, friends and relatives, - causing some of the Gresham law-type principles to likely also become somewhat contagious too.. even if some of the folks cannot articulate exactly why they are choosing to spend their BTC last (amongst their various spending options) .. and maybe even figuring out ways to NOT spend their BTC until they have exhausted all their other spending options first.


The "pyramid scheme" was an attempt to raise understanding WHY nocoiners still see Bitcoin as such, while the actual happenings (history) of Bitcoin show that it's not really the case.
People tend to simplify (as do i in my argumentation more often than not). It's easier for them to remember the pyramid scheme narrative than educate themselves in Bitcoin, economy and sound money principles. Bringing in the "pyramd scheme argument" was a perfect move and the narrative grew successfully.
Now it's harder to get followers of the "pyramid scheme conspiracy" educated. A (temporary) win for the "fiat society", because people tend to stay with simple explanations and affirmations. Most people do hard to change their beliefs. Give a simple explanation for a complex question (on a complex subject) and the most dumbest guy/gal will "understand".
That is an important factor of AlcoHODL's collegues and relatives NOT really understanding Bitcoin, because they think they already do.

Second biggest factor: Trust.
Humans trust information more, the closer the relation is to the informer. We don't want to be alone, we don't want to decide alone, so we take over narratives from people we look up to, as well as from people we relate to on the "same height of sight" (as we tend to say in my country). While people like us (WO's) are likely seen as freaks by normie nocoiners, they tend to keep trust to information from other normie nocoiners, which form a bigger group they feel related to, while we may seem like mavericks.

In the background it's even more complicated, just wanted to highlight the simple aspects that stand out more.
To keep it short: Peeps either doing something or not, they are basically driven by fear or love. They fear (refuse) things they don't know, they love (accept) things they do know.

Strangely, my attention was always drawn to the unknown (which provided me fantastic experiences in the past and present, by the way).

EDIT: Fuck, missed to break CB triplet by a minute :/
1672  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 14, 2021, 06:56:15 PM
Regarding bitcoin price performance of the past month...

[...]

...some of my no coiner friends...

they don't see it,
they cannot see it
they don't want to see it

[...]

I'm also amazed at my nocoiner friends/colleagues/relatives' persistent passiveness when it comes to Bitcoin. They laughed at me in 2015, they still didn't listen to me in 2017, they started getting interested in 2020, they are more interested now, but they are still nocoiners and haven't bought a single sat! Instead, whenever Bitcoin is mentioned, they look at me like rabbits blinded by the light.

Bitcoin is a strange beast. You either get it, or you don't. Maybe some kind of special brain wiring is needed?  Cheesy

You see, #hodl is in fact a lifestyle.
You either just fit in, adapt to it, or you stay out.
Now guess what your nocoiner friends/collegues/relatives are like... Grin

Sorry to say that, but you really tried to help them, they didn't listen. Now that they are #HFSP, they have no chance but continue watching from the sideline in apathy.

That comes off as an improper framework.

You seem to be just reiterating the part that almost all of them believe, which is largely:
"bitcoin is like a stock and if it pumps, it can ONLY pump so much, so since bitcoin has already pumped 10x, 1,000x and 10,000x - depending on when beginning the base measurement - it is not capable of pumping more; therefore, I am too late."

That's not true.  They are not too late.

It is true that bitcoin has pumped

It is true that bitcoin has pumped a lot

It is true that it would have been better getting in earlier

It is NOT true that bitcoin does not remain a great investment with a lot more upside potential

It is NOT true that nocoiners are too late


Surely, we can say HFSP (have fun staying poor) but some of those folks will still end up coming around and can still come around - even if BTC pumps another 1,000x from here (that would be $46.6 million per coin), the investment thesis for bitcoin will not disappear, even if it costs more per unit to get it.. whether merely satoshi's can be afforded that time, and our 0.21BTC or our 0.63BTC collections are looking quite sweet at those BTC price levels.

Actually, some people will come around by just creating some kind of account and starting to invest $10 per week... but yes.. it is a whole hell of a lot of work, just to get them to carry out what (to us) seems to be the bare bones basics.


If you want to change your life, you have to act. Waiting is a trap. Especially in regards to get into Bitcoin long term.

Exactly.. that's why some will likely act later.. they are not trapped forever in HFSP.. even though relatively speaking they are going to likely end up being less richie.. but whatever.. we can ONLY do so much to help these normie peeps.. If they are not ready.. they are not ready.. I am not going to walk them through every single step.. especially if they are making too much work for me out of the project.  Of course, if they are showing interest.. and taking a wee bit of a humble pill, then yes, I will help them to set up an account or point them in a direction where they can learn more or even talk through a few of the matters that they might not want to read. but they learn by talking through the matter, but they have to take some actions rather than my having to drag them through each step... for example.. work on sending me a BTC address and then I can send you .00021BTC or something like that.. do something... do something... act excited about the info.. that's a start.

I'm not in the situation to reply to all of this in detail, but i wrote in a way that kind of overexagerrated the apathy part.
Now, i do think some of them will change (in figures of the 20/80 rule). Some problem with groups (co-workers) is, they tend to internally agree and sympathize, so i don't expect the co-workers are able to change their common narratives on Bitcoin.
I think it works more like so: Co-worker A hears from more friends or relatives over time that they discovered, understood and had success with Bitcoin (or "crypto").
He then starts off with a little set-and-forget buy, switches to lump-sum or DCA later, makes the same mistakes most newbies made and becomes a #hodler.
When he is successful and educated enough, he will probably slip into AlcoHODL's role and talk about in the co-worker circle.
It really gets on like in a pyramid scheme, but we know that this comparison/term is bullshit, when it comes to Bitcoin, but at least can push more people to FOMO-in, which is the way PS's work. Atomic social systems, if you know what i mean...
1673  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 14, 2021, 09:25:52 AM
Regarding bitcoin price performance of the past month...

[...]

...some of my no coiner friends...

they don't see it,
they cannot see it
they don't want to see it

[...]

I'm also amazed at my nocoiner friends/colleagues/relatives' persistent passiveness when it comes to Bitcoin. They laughed at me in 2015, they still didn't listen to me in 2017, they started getting interested in 2020, they are more interested now, but they are still nocoiners and haven't bought a single sat! Instead, whenever Bitcoin is mentioned, they look at me like rabbits blinded by the light.

Bitcoin is a strange beast. You either get it, or you don't. Maybe some kind of special brain wiring is needed?  Cheesy

You see, #hodl is in fact a lifestyle.
You either just fit in, adapt to it, or you stay out.
Now guess what your nocoiner friends/collegues/relatives are like... Grin

Sorry to say that, but you really tried to help them, they didn't listen. Now that they are #HFSP, they have no chance but continue watching from the sideline in apathy.
If you want to change your life, you have to act. Waiting is a trap. Especially in regards to get into Bitcoin long term.

@ivomm: I hope it all turns out well for your father. Keep a close eye on your fathers medical care, some of my friends got fucked up in a hospital really bad in the past.
1674  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 09:01:58 PM
-snip-

-------

True story. Omitted many details in favor of OpSec.

So, it's not different this time... such a pity... anyways we can always try to sell at the top and buy back during the 2022-2023 bottom which is also a good thing. Just a reminder: don't sell all (or substantial part of your stash) and/or become a nocoiner/lowcoiner. In other words: don't mindrust it!   Cool

To pull a canonical mindrust you need to sell the bottom. Selling near the top doesn't really count.

You're absolutely right. I am fucking tired, tbh.
#hodlsleep
1675  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
Dear diary,

today two coiners revealed themselves among my friends/ex co-workers. The friend was my former boss, the co-worker his secretary.
The boss proudly told me, he's in "crypto" now, a fantastic thing. He was showing me his trading app and portfolio (what a noob, held only shitcoins), and said his secretary is his crypto-consultant. The secretaries base currency was ETH, he is into Defi as well. I wondered why the fuck he didn't invest in NFT already, but trying to sell a shitcoin that goes to zero is about as non fungible as a JPG of a rock, i heard myself thinking.
I said: Bitcoin? They said: Nah, man. No big gains here anymore. We sell a coin when it's over 150% profit and look for the next (shitcoin) to invest in.
So i asked about the taxes, and they said: Nobody cares. I wish they would know what they think "centralized" and KYC in terms of exchanges really means, but they seemed so obsessed about their "crypto gains", i didn't want to interfere in that moment.

The portfolio of the boss was down about 50% from its recent top. I didn't see or hear anything detailed about the secretary's portfolio, neither do i know how long he already was in "crypto" before.

So it's this time of the year again. I'm beginning to doubt my beliefs about S-curve adoption and should start thinking about liquidation target prices for a part of my stash. The next bear market is coming, and a big retail FOMO move to this cycle's top should lead it. It felt like 2017 all over again, but this time i will take some dollars to buy the 2023 bottom again.

-------

True story. Omitted many details in favor of OpSec.

So, it's not different this time... such a pity... anyways we can always try to sell at the top and buy back during the 2022-2023 bottom which is also a good thing. Just a reminder: don't sell all (or substantial part of your stash) and/or become a nocoiner/lowcoiner. In other words: don't mindrust it!   Cool

No worries. I would NEVER mindrust it. Because i blamed him for that move and made fun of it, i would also lose my self-respect. I would never want that to happen

BUT...

MOST IMPORTANT:

About the half of what i consider "mine" of the stash, will belong to my children. A portion about a quarter of "my slice" is destined for my wife, plus she also holds a smaller part of the total of the stash. Since i'd not sell more than 50% of my slice, mindrusting it is close to impossible, because i will only touch a small part (#nohomo). The rest is buy-and-hodl, excepting possible financial emergencies.

BTW, what's the definition of a lowcoiner?
1676  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 08:22:14 PM
I meet a lot more people somewhat into crypto these days..
I tell them I have seen thousands of alts come and go, and that I believe only Bitcoin is forever.. And I truly believe that Bitcoin is forever..

And still most of them are into coins without real value, am i right?  Grin
1677  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 08:06:44 PM
Dear diary,

today two coiners revealed themselves among my friends/ex co-workers. The friend was my former boss, the co-worker his secretary.
The boss proudly told me, he's in "crypto" now, a fantastic thing. He was showing me his trading app and portfolio (what a noob, held only shitcoins), and said his secretary is his crypto-consultant. The secretaries base currency was ETH, he is into Defi as well. I wondered why the fuck he didn't invest in NFT already, but trying to sell a shitcoin that goes to zero is about as non fungible as a JPG of a rock, i heard myself thinking.
I said: Bitcoin? They said: Nah, man. No big gains here anymore. We sell a coin when it's over 150% profit and look for the next (shitcoin) to invest in.
So i asked about the taxes, and they said: Nobody cares. I wish they would know what they think "centralized" and KYC in terms of exchanges really means, but they seemed so obsessed about their "crypto gains", i didn't want to interfere in that moment.

The portfolio of the boss was down about 50% from its recent top. I didn't see or hear anything detailed about the secretary's portfolio, neither do i know how long he already was in "crypto" before.

So it's this time of the year again. I'm beginning to doubt my beliefs about S-curve adoption and should start thinking about liquidation target prices for a part of my stash. The next bear market is coming, and a big retail FOMO move to this cycle's top should lead it. It felt like 2017 all over again, but this time i will take some dollars to buy the 2023 bottom again.

-------

True story. Omitted many details in favor of OpSec.

A funny story..we could be 2-4 mo from the top, hopefully.
I "like" their lackadaisical attitude about taxes..maybe some tears will be shed down the road.

No earth shaking amounts, though. But if there are many profitable trades...
Poor boys going to burn their fingers a little, i guess.
1678  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 07:29:17 PM
Dear diary,

today two coiners revealed themselves among my friends/ex co-workers. The friend was my former boss, the co-worker his secretary.
The boss proudly told me, he's in "crypto" now, a fantastic thing. He was showing me his trading app and portfolio (what a noob, held only shitcoins), and said his secretary is his crypto-consultant. The secretaries base currency was ETH, he is into Defi as well. I wondered why the fuck he didn't invest in NFT already, but trying to sell a shitcoin that goes to zero is about as non fungible as a JPG of a rock, i heard myself thinking.
I said: Bitcoin? They said: Nah, man. No big gains here anymore. We sell a coin when it's over 150% profit and look for the next (shitcoin) to invest in.
So i asked about the taxes, and they said: Nobody cares. I wish they would know what they think "centralized" and KYC in terms of exchanges really means, but they seemed so obsessed about their "crypto gains", i didn't want to interfere in that moment.

The portfolio of the boss was down about 50% from its recent top. I didn't see or hear anything detailed about the secretary's portfolio, neither do i know how long he already was in "crypto" before.

So it's this time of the year again. I'm beginning to doubt my beliefs about S-curve adoption and should start thinking about liquidation target prices for a part of my stash. The next bear market is coming, and a big retail FOMO move to this cycle's top should lead it. It felt like 2017 all over again, but this time i will take some dollars to buy the 2023 bottom again.

-------

True story. Omitted many details in favor of OpSec.
1679  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 05:57:10 PM
Yeah... software raid seems to be the best right now. Some systems like old refurbished servers from HP and Dell, don't really allow you to not use the built-in hardware RAID, but you can always just configure it as JBOD or something and let the software handle the raid.

Then there's unraid and freenas / truenas.

And Nas4free, the open source heir of freenas, based on FreeBSD and rock solid.

Like FreeBSD itself.
So, software raid is fine for home use, but it's a coin flip when it comes to recovery.
Again: Ask Bob (maybe he didn't delete the thread)
1680  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 13, 2021, 06:43:52 AM
Woke up for something.
Not to check the bitcoin price,
I’ll spare the details.


Take a piss?
We're getting older  Grin
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