That screenshot just proves that when coince.com disappears, you lose over $100... note how the amount invested is greater than that paid out... it also doesn't corroborate any of your so called payments. How do we know that that address is yours? Can you sign a message from that address to prove it is yours? And not just some random BTC address? ie. "Dear bitcointalk, this is my address, love indigeniuous"

Also, how do we know that address belongs to coince.com? They don't even advertise their address anywhere...


And there we go... pretty decent proof that all of these newbie accounts are just sock puppets... note the identical structure and weird spacing around the !

Likelihood that this is a scam rating out of 10? ----> 11

Yeah mate... as you can see... they're basically just posting exactly the same stuff with some slight edits... every few hours, a newbie with ZERO posts, pops up, spams the coince.com threads with the same "I got paid!" type message and disappears.

I've requested that the mods lock all these threads, but I guess they're a bit busy... so it looks like it is up to the unofficial scam police (love your work CryptoDevil ) to try to counter this until this happens.

It is fairly obvious that it is a scam... all the signs are there... and we're yet to see one genuine piece of proof... screenshots that actually prove something... instead of these text only posts that are all obviously written by the same person/bot.

Hopefully, by highlighting this, we can help prevent people from losing their hard earned BTC to this scam.

Yes, as you can see... almost identical posts from two different "users"... note the same lack of capitalisation... and the strange spacing around the ! in the first part. So much copy/paste by the bot writer/scammer. Honestly, they just can't be bothered putting in the effort to run a proper scam can they?

I'm still not seeing any real evidence of any real Bitcoin payments either... it is all PerfectMoney... it is all text... there are no screenshots... I doubt coince.com will be around to help me celebrate my Birthday in September... hell I doubt they'll be around in August

Oops... seems like the bot is running out of useless things to say! Tell your programmer to add in some different quotes

Haha... same capitalisation (or lack thereof)... same weird spacing around the !... Honestly, you guys aren't fooling anyone with your desperate attempts to get some last minute investors before you disappear into the ether.

I really wish the mods would lock these threads...

Telegram is multi-platform. Has Android, iOS, Windows, MacOS, Linux and a web client... hell it even has WindowsPhone which is usually ignored by everybody! To be honest, this comment is almost the same as saying "You must use a web browser" as a reason not to use a service. 

I do agree that there is an implied level of trust here. That they will not run off with your money and will pay out. But this is also true of pretty much all online casino/sportsbooks. Just because it doesn't have the $$$ to spend on fancy websites, doesn't mean it is a scam. Hell, look at HashOcean... that had a plenty fancy website... that disappeared overnight with millions of dollars worth of bitcoins!

How to get around this? Play small... Only deposit when you wish to make a bet... don't hold large amounts of bitcoins in the service for extended periods of time... you know, all the common sense stuff you do with any 3rd party service that you are trusting with your precious BTC

Must have some BTC is also a relatively valid, but I'd say minor, concern. I guess for a lot of people, not being able to put funds in from fiat services like credit cards, Paypal etc would be problematic. But there are plenty of other services online that allow you to buy bitcoins using fiat, which you could use to purchase your bitcoins and transfer them over... so I don't see it as being a HUGE issue...

Yeah... that is the double edged sword of instant, irreversible transactions... people become (or should become) somewhat cautious about who they give their funds too

Anyway, I've been messing around with the bot, a nice little selection of sports and bets available... thanks for the credit. I've tried my first bet (fingers crossed!)

As one of the others mentioned, it is nice and simple, not overly complicated like a lot of the flashy websites... and super easy to use. If you offer decent odds I reckon you could be onto a bit of a winner here!

You shouldn't have to have 2 "straight" bets... unless you are attempting to create a "parlay" or a "teaser"...

Straight bets are exactly that, you picking one thing to bet on and putting some money on it.

The Parlay is simply staking up your bets to increase the payout. The catch is that ALL bets have to win for you to get paid out. It is like winning Bet 1, putting all your winnings from Bet 1 on Bet 2, winning that and putting all the winnings from Bet 2 on Bet 3 and so on and so on... until all the bets in your parlay are completed successfully and you win BIG (yay! ) or one of them loses and everything is gone (boo! )

The teaser is a bit like a parlay, but they can allow you to adjust the points spreads a little bit... the payouts will then be slightly lower than taking a standard parlay using the original point spreads etc.

So, if I understand correctly, someone with poor math and logic skills has either lost a bunch of money on a gambling dice website or had their kid lose a bunch of money on a gambling dice website?

It is quite plainly obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of maths and statistics, that you cannot beat these games in the long term. None of the so called "strategies" will result in you magically making substantial amounts of money/bitcoin off of games of chance, because they are all "rigged". Just not in the way you think they are. They aren't coded to steal your money by being devious or "cheating". They're pretty up front about what your odds are and what your payouts are going to be.

I have a "free" site that I occasionally waste 5 minutes on because it is fun seeing how long before the classic martingale strategy dies horribly (a loss streak of any more than 10 means you are now over 1000x your original bet, so you either have to start VERY small with a VERY large bankroll and have a no limit game, I start with 1 satoshi ). It is right there in front of me, that should I choose to go with the 2.0 payout, then my odds of winning are only 47.5%. That is a house edge of 2.5%... there is NO WAY you can beat this over a long term of betting. The only way to win at this is to place ONE very large bet, get 2.50000000000001+% lucky, on your ONE roll and walk away with a profit.

If you stick around, the odds will beat you in the end... Games of "skill" however, well... that's a slightly different kettle of fish.

A very interesting concept you have here. I am keen to try this out. The deposit address it has given me is: 1FknYzX1FgdQfpNH6NzEnHoddsa8xobNn3

I have some questions if you don't mind, because it isn't exactly spelled out (something you might consider adding to your website)... I would be effectively depositing bitcoins into an address controlled by BookieBig, and relying on you to be honest and return them to an address of my choosing should I "/withdraw" my funds... is that correct?

Also... you might like to put up some sort of proof that you can pay out on bets. Like a signed message from an account that has a suitable amount of BTC in it to cover pay outs etc. Also, I understand that you have a Telegram account and all, but there doesn't seem to be any other contact information or details about your company/service.

That is mathematically incorrect.

If there is no house edge, then long term, the best the casino can do is to break even on the games. However, because of their costs (staff, development, rent, electricity, licenses etc) then they would lose money.

The reason that casinos still exist and function is because of the house edge. It is the one thing that guarantees that they will make money. Bigger casinos can afford a smaller house edge and trade on volume. ie. 0.5% of $100,000,000 is still $500,000. Smaller casinos with less volume often have a large house edge, as they need to ensure a higher percentage of their volume comes back as income.

No house edge would be brilliant for players (possibility of winning) compared to what we have now (pretty much guaranteed "losing") from a statistical/mathemtical point of view. However, any casino doing so would quickly go bankrupt unless they rigged their games

Yes, you can secure Mycelium with a PIN... my problem with it is that unless you remember to shutdown the app properly, ie. you just press the home button for instance, if someone picks up your phone, goes to recent apps and selects Mycelium, it will open right back up to where you left it!!?! 

Most of the internet banking apps I've ever used, have a feature whereby if the app is backgrounded for a certain period of time (say 2 or 3 minutes), then when the app is brought to the foreground, it requires the PIN to be re-entered. This enables you to still switch back and forth between apps for the purposes of checking/copying payment info (accounts and amounts etc) while you are actively using the app... but if it sits idle for an extended period it relocks itself.

Mycelium never does this, unless the app is totally removed from memory by the Android app management and/or you use the back button to back all the way out of the app everytime.

Also, that thread focusses more on desktop/web wallets and doesn't specifically cover Android... hence why I was going to ask. Anyway, this is starting to get off "Electrum" so I'll ask my query in the top level Alternative clients board.

@neutraLTC,

Does blocktrail include access to the private keys? I have tried blockchain.info, but there new beta wallet does not currently provide the private keys... and there doesn't seem like a way to open an "old" account. I've also read that eventually everyone will be migrated to the new wallet anyway and I haven't seen any indication that they will be providing keys.

I still like the idea of easy access to online wallets, but would prefer the security of possessing the private keys for my wallet.

Ah, OK. Thank you very much for the quick responses.

I actually have Mycelium installed. I am only relatively new to the Bitcoin scene, so have been test driving a wide variety of wallets. Started with Xapo, Blockchain.info etc... then read/investigated/learned how "unsafe" web wallets are (without private keys etc) and decided to investigate desktop and mobile wallets. Decided against a desktop wallet because I'd prefer the convenience of mobility etc

Installed Mycelium and it seems OK... has 1 or 2 little things that I think would make it a lot better (PIN required when foregrounding app like most internet banking apps etc, the ability to generate extra addresses manually so I can hand out a different address to everyone that I want to receive money from without waiting for an incoming transaction to generate the next address etc.

SO I have been looking to see if there were any other Android clients worth considering... I was considering starting a "What is the best Android wallet?" thread... because I couldn't seem to find much specific to Android on here...

Now I'm beginning to think you've just answered that for me

Thanks again

Are there any plans to update the Electrum Android App?

I don't mean to sound overly critical, but it is pretty bad I had read such good things about Electrum, as it seems a lot of people really like the desktop client. I'm fairly "mobile" so would prefer a mobile wallet for my Android device, so I thought I'd jump into Electrum using the Android app... that was a fairly bad idea. The app takes forever to do anything when you open it for the first time. There are graphical glitches when you start scrolling some of the menus. The onscreen keyboard for doing the seed and pin stuff is just terrible. Despite PIN being on, it never seems to ask for one unless I want to change the PIN. I can close the app, remove it from memory etc but when I open it again, I get the Electrum splash screen and then straight into my wallet... no PIN required!!?! 

I assume that a lot of these issues are because the android app appears to be a "port" of the desktop version... and not a custom written Android app... is that correct?

So it seems that indeed... ALL users of coince.com must use PerfectMoney exclusively... 

NOT ONE Bitcoin user... with a screenshot of transaction, with transactionID, and wallet etc... No signed message from Coince.com... Hell... even an actual screenshot from a PerfectMoney transaction would be a step up from these text only posts that mean ABSOLUTELY ZERO...

That is not proof of anything but the fact that Coince.com scammers are just creating more and more spam messages from fake newbie accounts who have registered to post bullshit payment info... 

A lot of people are saying football, but I disagree... The issue with football and other "low scoring" sports, especially ones that allow for "draws" is that it is far too common for an upset. This really screws with your odds.

Also, the draw is the worst factor in football. You get a team at the bottom of the EPL with a 1-9 record up against a high flying team like Man City who have been averaging 3 goals a game etc... you think, well easy win. Then Aston Villa defend like devils for 90 minutes and walk away with a draw and you lose your bet.

Same goes with Baseball (although they don't have draws which helps)... it doesn't take much for a team to end up with an upset 1-0 win in Baseball if the stronger team just has an off day.

Sports like Rugby, where the stronger team can REALLY dominate on the scoreboard makes for easy bets... low returns of course, but easy bets... Like the New Zealand All Blacks vs. Scotland or something like that... the odds will be like 1.02... but it is as close to a sure bet as you're like to find in sports betting.

I used to gamble "casually"... maybe once a month I'd head to the casino for friends and we'd pretend to be pro gamblers while losing money at craps and $5 Blackjack . Was never really serious and was generally just a fun night out with friends where we would just give each other stick for losing on stupid bets (doubling down on 12 that sort of thing)...

Then I started working at the casino and had to stop, because it is against the law to work there and play there

I still played the odd cash game of poker with friends, and the lottery when they'd have the big "$40million must be won this week"-type draw...

Since I stopped at the casino I've been a bit more of a gambler again... mostly poker with the odd night at the casino here and there... nothing massive, but I've never been heavily into gambling. I just treat it like most other "disposable income" activities... I do it for fun and enjoyment and not for making big profit

Gambling, like alcohol, drugs, TV, computer games and loads of other things can be a fun distraction for some... and a devastating addiction for others.

I've worked in a real casino and seen both sides...

Like people out on a Friday night looking for a bit of fun, spending a few bucks for a few hours of entertainment... hitting a $100payout and acting like they hit the lottery!

And then I've seen the people at 3am on a Monday morning playing 1¢ slot machines... or the people queued up outside the Casino at Midnight on Xmas Day, because the casino has been closed for 24hrs due to local gambling laws banning gambling on Xmas day. Or, players who hit a $600+ payout on a table game side bet and don't even say "yay", because they're $1500 in the hole for evening.

I've personally taken $15,000 off a player in less than 10 minutes and watched him stare at the empty betting box on the blackjack table in complete silence for 5 minutes after I took his last "Hail Mary" bet.

Me personally, I always go to a casino with a set budget for the evening... and expect to lose all of it... and view it like paying money for a dinner and movie night out. So once my $100 is gone, that's it, the "movie" has finished. Time to go home.

And if I make it out with anything left (or even more than I started with) well that's just a bonus

And not one of these so-called "payments" has been via Bitcoin... odd for a Bitcoin investment, on a Bitcoin forum... 

Don't suppose that would have anything to do with the fact that they would be able to be double checked as actually having occurred by using the block chain...

Honestly, if they REALLY wanted to look legit... they'd sign a message saying "we are legit. from coince.com" from their payment account, and then show blockchain transactions from that account being paid out to various addresses...

Rather than these useless, text only, copy pasta spam messages from newbie accounts, claiming to have been paid via some relatively unknown 3rd party payment provider.

Chances of that happening are about the same as Coince.com still being around in 3 months.

Yeah, what I was initially concerned about, was with so many altcoins floating around, that merchants (aka. goods and service providers), money exchangers etc might be hesitant to enter the crypto currency world and therefore delay accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment because there were so many alternatives.

However, it seems like there are actually very few altcoins that make it past the pump and dump stage, and fewer still that are traded for fiat... with, as pointed out by the various folks here, most altcoins are really only traded on their own gambling site and/or for bitcoins.

There is a real lack of goods and services that can be purchased in my local area/country using Bitcoins, and I'd like that to change... it all just seems to be "Bitcoin exchanges" which isn't that helpful.