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Author Topic: Economic Totalitarianism  (Read 345416 times)
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October 26, 2015, 01:49:41 AM
 #1741

...

I notice some recent interesting political commentary here on our theme of "Economic Totalitarianism".

And a thought has just occurred to me: "politics as normal" is not going to solve any of our problems.  It looks like we are in gridlock almost everywhere.  No one wants to take any medicine.  This is actually not good, IMO.  We will have to fall very hard to change anything...
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October 26, 2015, 08:47:35 AM
 #1742

...

I notice some recent interesting political commentary here on our theme of "Economic Totalitarianism".

And a thought has just occurred to me: "politics as normal" is not going to solve any of our problems.  It looks like we are in gridlock almost everywhere.  No one wants to take any medicine.  This is actually not good, IMO.  We will have to fall very hard to change anything...


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October 26, 2015, 08:53:10 AM
 #1743

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?
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October 26, 2015, 10:08:24 AM
 #1744

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?

Imho varoufakis and the siriza movement are just clowns.

They never intended to get out of the euro, they just said what was needed to be elected, and overall they did everything Bruxelles wanted.

Clowns i tell you.
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October 26, 2015, 10:10:23 AM
 #1745

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?

Imho varoufakis and the siriza movement are just clowns.

They never intended to get out of the euro, they just said what was needed to be elected, and overall they did everything Bruxelles wanted.

Clowns i tell you.

Politics is the biggest scam of mankind, it attracts all kinds of con artists that will deceive people just to get in power. The sheeple has a very short memory (4 years) and always gets fooled:




Would you prefer to vote on the lion or the wolf to eat you for dinner?

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October 26, 2015, 10:44:06 AM
 #1746

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?

Imho varoufakis and the siriza movement are just clowns.

They never intended to get out of the euro, they just said what was needed to be elected, and overall they did everything Bruxelles wanted.

Clowns i tell you.

Hehe yes I know they're clowns, I was just more interested to see what a local thinks, whether he thinks he is a threat to the establishment or if it is all smoke and mirrors.

I lost hope in politicians a long time ago, I have never voted in my life.
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October 26, 2015, 11:19:30 AM
 #1747

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?

Imho varoufakis and the siriza movement are just clowns.

They never intended to get out of the euro, they just said what was needed to be elected, and overall they did everything Bruxelles wanted.

Clowns i tell you.

Hehe yes I know they're clowns, I was just more interested to see what a local thinks, whether he thinks he is a threat to the establishment or if it is all smoke and mirrors.

I lost hope in politicians a long time ago, I have never voted in my life.

Thanks for the insightful comments (and the great poster from RealBitcoin above Tongue). I beg to differ. Varoufakis is no politician; he's a marxist (that's not necessarily a GOOD thing) and he's one of the smartest men that ever decided to get into politics. There were about 10 of those people in the first Syriza election scheme. I must remind you people that Yanis got the biggest vote count in the country and it was the FIRST time he nominated for the parliament.

The EU system saw the possibility of disaster in case Greece managed to get out of the crisis; IMHO Varoufakis had the chance to reform EVERYTHING but he laid the decision in the hands of Tsipras (which is a politician) for making it happen. This is where things went wrong. There's ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICIAN around the globe that manages to become a PM of a country without the "helping hand" of TPTB. They control everybody at this level. If they don't control them, believe me; there are ways to persuade them to conform.

This was a golden opportunity for Greece to make history. Didn't happen. With the recent elections, Tsipras (with the advice of TPTB) had reformed the lists of the electoral body leaving -literally- everybody who didn't agree to their terms out of the parliament. They won. We lost; simple as that.

Yanis believes he still has a chance by embracing his ideas to open ears within the EU; I'd say it's a noble move, one that a boxer does after he got a nearly fatal hit in the jaw, blacked out and then after listening to the referee's count he decides that he still has to put up a fight. I wish him all the best luck God may give him; I assure you he will need every piece of it.

PS: Treason case has been closed; they had nothing against him and -since he's now gone- they had no reason to go after him.

Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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October 26, 2015, 11:57:27 AM
 #1748


Thanks for the insightful comments (and the great poster from RealBitcoin above Tongue). I beg to differ. Varoufakis is no politician; he's a marxist (that's not necessarily a GOOD thing) and he's one of the smartest men that ever decided to get into politics. There were about 10 of those people in the first Syriza election scheme. I must remind you people that Yanis got the biggest vote count in the country and it was the FIRST time he nominated for the parliament.

The EU system saw the possibility of disaster in case Greece managed to get out of the crisis; IMHO Varoufakis had the chance to reform EVERYTHING but he laid the decision in the hands of Tsipras (which is a politician) for making it happen. This is where things went wrong. There's ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICIAN around the globe that manages to become a PM of a country without the "helping hand" of TPTB. They control everybody at this level. If they don't control them, believe me; there are ways to persuade them to conform.

This was a golden opportunity for Greece to make history. Didn't happen. With the recent elections, Tsipras (with the advice of TPTB) had reformed the lists of the electoral body leaving -literally- everybody who didn't agree to their terms out of the parliament. They won. We lost; simple as that.

Yanis believes he still has a chance by embracing his ideas to open ears within the EU; I'd say it's a noble move, one that a boxer does after he got a nearly fatal hit in the jaw, blacked out and then after listening to the referee's count he decides that he still has to put up a fight. I wish him all the best luck God may give him; I assure you he will need every piece of it.

PS: Treason case has been closed; they had nothing against him and -since he's now gone- they had no reason to go after him.

Thanks for explaining the situation, it was interesting, they revealed their true nature thats for sure.

I don't like marxists at all even if they are not a "politician".


The greek people placed all their trust in their party but then they revealed their true nature. I say it was expected, but it's funny how those stupid sheeple that cheered for them got fucked in the ass and doesnt even realize it.

There were hundreds of thousands of people on the streets when these politicians talked, and all cheering for them.


God they were so brainwashed by euphoria, I kinda start to feel that we are destined to be slaves, because the sheeple wont ever do anything.

They have a short term memory, and get fooled every single time, so it's useless to even pretend that things will be better.


The fluoride in the water really made these sheeps mentally ill.

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October 26, 2015, 01:09:11 PM
 #1749

Macsga I saw on his blog the establishment was trying to have Varoufakis arrested for treason, is this still a possibility, were they credible threats?

Imho varoufakis and the siriza movement are just clowns.

They never intended to get out of the euro, they just said what was needed to be elected, and overall they did everything Bruxelles wanted.

Clowns i tell you.

Hehe yes I know they're clowns, I was just more interested to see what a local thinks, whether he thinks he is a threat to the establishment or if it is all smoke and mirrors.

I lost hope in politicians a long time ago, I have never voted in my life.

Thanks for the insightful comments (and the great poster from RealBitcoin above Tongue). I beg to differ. Varoufakis is no politician; he's a marxist (that's not necessarily a GOOD thing) and he's one of the smartest men that ever decided to get into politics. There were about 10 of those people in the first Syriza election scheme. I must remind you people that Yanis got the biggest vote count in the country and it was the FIRST time he nominated for the parliament.

The EU system saw the possibility of disaster in case Greece managed to get out of the crisis; IMHO Varoufakis had the chance to reform EVERYTHING but he laid the decision in the hands of Tsipras (which is a politician) for making it happen. This is where things went wrong. There's ABSOLUTELY NO POLITICIAN around the globe that manages to become a PM of a country without the "helping hand" of TPTB. They control everybody at this level. If they don't control them, believe me; there are ways to persuade them to conform.

This was a golden opportunity for Greece to make history. Didn't happen. With the recent elections, Tsipras (with the advice of TPTB) had reformed the lists of the electoral body leaving -literally- everybody who didn't agree to their terms out of the parliament. They won. We lost; simple as that.

Yanis believes he still has a chance by embracing his ideas to open ears within the EU; I'd say it's a noble move, one that a boxer does after he got a nearly fatal hit in the jaw, blacked out and then after listening to the referee's count he decides that he still has to put up a fight. I wish him all the best luck God may give him; I assure you he will need every piece of it.

PS: Treason case has been closed; they had nothing against him and -since he's now gone- they had no reason to go after him.

I concur with the TPTB puppetshow, however, I never ever credited Varoufakis an ounce of credibility.

Marxist? lel.

Also the guy's a blogger... so please.

Not like he has the shoulders to do anything.
Like all the politicians, it's just a morbid set up.
He should be judged for treason as the deal signed with the EU clearly sell what is left of the country along with your sorry asses.

I am very sorry for you people tho.
Unsurprisingly, democracy voting seems not to be the right path in overthrowing TPTB and their bank mafia.
Now that greeks are left with less than nothing, i sure hope things start to heat up a bit more.


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October 26, 2015, 01:23:53 PM
 #1750

I concur with the TPTB puppetshow, however, I never ever credited Varoufakis an ounce of credibility.

Marxist? lel.

Also the guy's a blogger... so please.

Not like he has the shoulders to do anything.
Like all the politicians, it's just a morbid set up.
He should be judged for treason as the deal signed with the EU clearly sell what is left of the country along with your sorry asses.

I am very sorry for you people tho.
Unsurprisingly, democracy voting seems not to be the right path in overthrowing TPTB and their bank mafia.
Now that greeks are left with less than nothing, i sure hope things start to heat up a bit more.

Marxists are also bloggers, also some bloggers could be marxists as well; (God, looks like a logical test Tongue )

I agree with "the morbid presence" of Yanis, I disagree that he somehow set this up! I believe he's a natural! Tongue

Greeks are far from "nothing". I believe there will be turbulence, but not right now. I think that we will have to wait until the 3rd Memorandum has passed (yeah, the one we voted Tsipras for saying he was NOT gonna sign) and all the best assets of the public will be sold for nothing to vulture funds. What I hate more is, that IF Varoufakis had taken that chance and initiated the BTC as a second currency all we had to do was to wait for Gresham's law to take over...

Sigh.  Undecided

Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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October 26, 2015, 01:43:02 PM
 #1751


Marxists are also bloggers, also some bloggers could be marxists as well; (God, looks like a logical test Tongue )

I agree with "the morbid presence" of Yanis, I disagree that he somehow set this up! I believe he's a natural! Tongue

Greeks are far from "nothing". I believe there will be turbulence, but not right now. I think that we will have to wait until the 3rd Memorandum has passed (yeah, the one we voted Tsipras for saying he was NOT gonna sign) and all the best assets of the public will be sold for nothing to vulture funds. What I hate more is, that IF Varoufakis had taken that chance and initiated the BTC as a second currency all we had to do was to wait for Gresham's law to take over...

Sigh.  Undecided

Well the odds were really against him so it would have never been implemented anyway.

I`m just wondering what is in the greek sheeple's mind right now. I men they were clearly betrayed by their "saviours" for whom they cheered so much.

How much does it take for a sheeple to make the euphoria go away and let reality settle in with the bad facts, as always.

How much time does it take for a sheep to realize he is in the belly of the wolf?

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October 26, 2015, 02:06:42 PM
 #1752

Well the odds were really against him so it would have never been implemented anyway.

I`m just wondering what is in the greek sheeple's mind right now. I men they were clearly betrayed by their "saviours" for whom they cheered so much.

How much does it take for a sheeple to make the euphoria go away and let reality settle in with the bad facts, as always.

How much time does it take for a sheep to realize he is in the belly of the wolf?

I think that we're way passed that point as a country. As for the "sheep" theory; I hate to repeat it for the gazillionth time but we're living into a world that's being governed by the Pareto principle. Unfortunately, there's a strong possibility that from the 20% of "useful" people / smart minds, there's another 20% (that is a mere 4% of the total - which, in some cases is even smaller) are CAPABLE to understand fully what really happens around them and propose (and then implement) viable solutions instead of whining...

...and believe me, there's a great chance we have never met such a person EVER. Undecided

Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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October 26, 2015, 02:49:38 PM
 #1753

Well the odds were really against him so it would have never been implemented anyway.

I`m just wondering what is in the greek sheeple's mind right now. I men they were clearly betrayed by their "saviours" for whom they cheered so much.

How much does it take for a sheeple to make the euphoria go away and let reality settle in with the bad facts, as always.

How much time does it take for a sheep to realize he is in the belly of the wolf?

I think that we're way passed that point as a country. As for the "sheep" theory; I hate to repeat it for the gazillionth time but we're living into a world that's being governed by the Pareto principle. Unfortunately, there's a strong possibility that from the 20% of "useful" people / smart minds, there's another 20% (that is a mere 4% of the total - which, in some cases is even smaller) are CAPABLE to understand fully what really happens around them and propose (and then implement) viable solutions instead of whining...

...and believe me, there's a great chance we have never met such a person EVER. Undecided

Hmm, I`m not sure, wasnt the Pareto principle overruled by Nash theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

I remember this from economics class from college, thats how he won his nobel prize.

This deadlock we experience could be the equilibrium state.

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October 26, 2015, 03:02:32 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2015, 03:27:41 PM by macsga
 #1754

Hmm, I`m not sure, wasnt the Pareto principle overruled by Nash theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

I remember this from economics class from college, thats how he won his nobel prize.

This deadlock we experience could be the equilibrium state.

You're talking about the Pareto Optimality which is different to what I mentioned. See here.

FWIW, on the subject you mentioned:
Nash equilibrium is when no player in a game can increase his or her payoff by unilaterally changing their actions. Pareto optimal is when it is not possible to make any player better off in the game without hurting another player at the same time.
For example, in the canonical Prisoner's dilemma formulation, the Nash equilibrium is not Pareto optimal.
A lot of algorithmic game theory works on structuring the rules/payoffs of the game such that the Nash equilibrium is in fact Pareto optimal.

via: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Nash-Equilibrium-and-Pareto-Optimality

Edit:
Again, there are successful paradigms for every single theory out there. Yes; even a communist village! One that prospers all the way since 1979! So, why do we have to inculpate a theory over its implementation? I'll tell you why; because it's us that we're malleably putting it to work. It has been this way since the beginning of time.

Fool yourselves not. The liability is us. It was always us.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

Chaos could be a form of intelligence we cannot yet understand its complexity.
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October 26, 2015, 03:38:45 PM
 #1755

Hmm, I`m not sure, wasnt the Pareto principle overruled by Nash theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

I remember this from economics class from college, thats how he won his nobel prize.

This deadlock we experience could be the equilibrium state.

You're talking about the Pareto Optimality which is different to what I mentioned. See here.

FWIW, on the subject you mentioned:
Nash equilibrium is when no player in a game can increase his or her payoff by unilaterally changing their actions. Pareto optimal is when it is not possible to make any player better off in the game without hurting another player at the same time.
For example, in the canonical Prisoner's dilemma formulation, the Nash equilibrium is not Pareto optimal.
A lot of algorithmic game theory works on structuring the rules/payoffs of the game such that the Nash equilibrium is in fact Pareto optimal.

via: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-Nash-Equilibrium-and-Pareto-Optimality

Edit:
Again, there are successful paradigms for every single theory out there. Yes; even a communist village! One that prospers all the way since 1979! So, why do we have to inculpate a theory over its implementation? I'll tell you why; because it's us that we're malleably putting it to work. It has been this way since the beginning of time.

Fool yourselves not. The liability is us. It was always us.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

Yea it was a long time ago, i need to refresh my economics a bit it got rusty. Nash theory really proves the free market and maximum competitiveness, the perfect Laissez faire free market capitalism.

The fact that it doesnt get implemented efficiently is because of us,yes I agree with that.


I`m sure communism wont ever work on large scale, but even a free market capitalism will have it's struggles, since the game is so distorted that you can really fix it easily.


Humanity is only 1 million year old, we are not fully developed yet, so dont need to worry about this, more efficient times will come in the future, and hopefully the sheeps will become enlightened later on.

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October 26, 2015, 03:56:06 PM
 #1756

...

The War on Cash advances to another front:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-26/barcelona-threatens-print-parallel-currency-madrid-seethes

It looks like Barcelona (their left wing government, LOL?) will join the War in addition to irking Madrid...

Zero Hedge notes:

"It appears the war on cash has moved from one of words to actions (as it is likely no coincidence that most of the local community currencies that have been launched so far are in purely digital format, as would Barcelona’s.)"
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October 26, 2015, 04:34:37 PM
Last edit: October 26, 2015, 04:54:15 PM by CoinCube
 #1757


Hmm, I`m not sure, wasnt the Pareto principle overruled by Nash theory?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nash_equilibrium

I remember this from economics class from college, thats how he won his nobel prize.

This deadlock we experience could be the equilibrium state.

The Nash equilibrium is often referred to as an "evolutionary stable state"

The prisoner's dilemma is a standard example of a game analyzed in game theory that shows why two completely "rational" individuals might not cooperate, even if it appears that it is in their best interests to do so. In the prisoners dilemma each prisoner is given the opportunity either to: betray the other by testifying that the other committed the crime, or to cooperate with the other by remaining silent.

The Nash equilibrium for the prisoners dilemma is to always defect and betray the other. However, this is not the most economically efficient outcome nor is it the Pareto optimum. Interestingly populations able to interact repeatedly do not necessarily converge to the Nash equilibrium. Populations able to interact over time can converge on an equilibrium state that results in significant levels of cooperation even in the prisoners dilemma a game with rules that makes cooperation very dangerous.

http://m.pnas.org/content/102/31/10797.full


Fig.
Deterministic replicator dynamics of an infinite population with different mutation rates u. Filled circles represent stable stationary points; open circles represent unstable stationary points. The times symbol in b and c (×) indicates the time average of the limit cycle. The payoffs in the prisoner's dilemma game are T = 5, R = 3, P = 1, and S = 0.1; the expected number of rounds is m = 10, and the complexity cost for TFT is c = 0.8.

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October 29, 2015, 07:47:12 PM
 #1758

What's most fucked up us we are here worried about this petty bullshit, yet members of Congress openly engage in the highest forms of insider trading and then flaunt their 'untouchable' status. 
 
The Oligarchy is official. 
 
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/10/12-days-before-08-crash-congress-was-secretly-told-to-sell-off-their-stocks.html

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October 29, 2015, 08:29:06 PM
 #1759

I concur with the TPTB puppetshow, however, I never ever credited Varoufakis an ounce of credibility.

Marxist? lel.

Also the guy's a blogger... so please.

Not like he has the shoulders to do anything.
Like all the politicians, it's just a morbid set up.
He should be judged for treason as the deal signed with the EU clearly sell what is left of the country along with your sorry asses.

I am very sorry for you people tho.
Unsurprisingly, democracy voting seems not to be the right path in overthrowing TPTB and their bank mafia.
Now that greeks are left with less than nothing, i sure hope things start to heat up a bit more.

Marxists are also bloggers, also some bloggers could be marxists as well; (God, looks like a logical test Tongue )

I agree with "the morbid presence" of Yanis, I disagree that he somehow set this up! I believe he's a natural! Tongue

Greeks are far from "nothing". I believe there will be turbulence, but not right now. I think that we will have to wait until the 3rd Memorandum has passed (yeah, the one we voted Tsipras for saying he was NOT gonna sign) and all the best assets of the public will be sold for nothing to vulture funds. What I hate more is, that IF Varoufakis had taken that chance and initiated the BTC as a second currency all we had to do was to wait for Gresham's law to take over...

Sigh.  Undecided


there ya go my friend: http://www.politico.eu/article/cash-machine-varoufakis-greece-finance-minister-media/

natural marxist blogger. ^^
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October 29, 2015, 08:56:24 PM
 #1760


I`m sure he is happy if we apply a 99.9% income tax to his earnings to help redistribute the wealth to the poor & needy. Cheesy

He would still earn more / minute than the minimal wage in my country.


No? Then fuck off and stop trying to redistribute my money fucking jerk marxists!

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