Economic Totalitarianism

[altcoinUK]

I also suggest the "Forks Over Knives" documentary, but yeah, the "Food Inc." is probably the most shocking and educational.

[TPTB_need_war]

But let's get back on topic. This week I began experiencing a toothache. Never in my life did I have cavities nor any problem with my teeth. Why? Because I drank milk until my 30s. I have very strong teeth.

Dairy is important for calcium also.

You are probably the smartest person by far here, you obviously know a lot, but this is the second time I have to correct you on a popular misconception about foods (the beneficial effects of olive oil was the first).

Milk actually reduces calcium in your bones. Similarly to all animal proteins, milk acidifies the body pH level, which then triggers a biological correction. Calcium is an excellent acid neutraliser and since the biggest storage of calcium in the body your bones, then the very same calcium in your bones is utilized to neutralize the acidic effect of milk. Once calcium is pulled out of the bones, it leaves the body via the urine, and the net result is an actual calcium deficit. No wonder why statistics indicate that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population, while Denmark is on the top of the hip and other fracture statistics. A recent Swedish study published not long ago in the British Medical Journal points out that drinking three glasses of milk per day results in increased incidence of osteoporosis, bone fractures, and earlier mortality. These are independent university researches. On the other hand, as far as I know all researches/studies that suggest the benefits of milk (mainly the calcium myth) are funded by the diary industry.

Plant based sources of calcium such as leafy greens, nuts, dried basil are both healthier and more easily absorbed. One cup serving of soybean sprouts provides 46 per cent of daily calcium requirements which is the equivalent of a glass and a half of milk, except the soybean provides you with only 30 calories, which reduced calories intake is obviously better (for the vast majority of population). I fully understand by now that it is not applicable to you as you need an incredible amount of extreme calories for your top athlete regime, but 99.999% of the population is not in the league of Kobe Bryant and yourself, and therefore I think they should know that diary product is not good for human body (which I have been banging-on in the last few pages).

There are a few very good documentaries that summarizes how the diary industry and their sockpuppets in the FDA mislead the population about the benefit of milks.

I am sure you are having strong teeth despite of milk, and not because of milk. Your strong teeth most likely because of your genetics.

This link is interesting.
http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

I am sorry but there is so much bullshit out there on the internet. You can't just cite everything you read as fact because it isn't:

http://chriskresser.com/does-dairy-cause-osteoporosis/
http://www.drcate.com/raw-milk-why-mess-with-udder-perfection/
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/raw-milk-vs-pasteurized-milk/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/18/the-milk-myth-what-your-body-really-needs.aspx
http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/cmasterjohn/the-biochemical-magic-of-raw-milk-and-other-raw-foods-glutathione/

First of all you can't leap to cite any shit about milk, because ostensibly none of the research is being done with raw, grass fed, A1 casein milk. Pasteurized milk isn't milk. Grain fed milk isn't milk. A2 casein GENETICALLY MODIFIED cows don't produce milk. Rather those are Frankenstein foods where all the enzymes and micro-nutrients have been destroyed. I suggest you pasteurize your GENETICALLY MODIFIED vegetables (and add heapings of pesticides and fertilizer to bring them to parity with Frankenstein Holstein cow's shit we drink), then run some studies on how unhealthy vegetables are.

arielbit pointed out up thread this point that cows that were fed the wrong shit couldn't even sustain their own calves.

It amazes me that people can't figure these basic things out and fall for that disinformation as you did. Sigh.

Why did my toothache subside after drinking lots of raw milk? Why did I have some of the strongest bones for a small 169cm guy who played American football (the helmet) and NEVER BROKE A BONE even though I did break the bones of some of the other players!

There is no way you can make a sane argument that native diary and native animal meat are unhealthy. That is absolute nonsense for idiots who can't discern between modern Frankenstein poisons that we label as "food" and the actual food that nature has produced for 1000s of years.

If raw milk is so bad, then please explain to me why today on my day after drinking raw milk, I had a miraculous day which is the first day in years where I felt incredibly strong.

I had the most intense sports day today. How can I describe my day? It is unbelievable. Here is 11pm and I am still jumping touching the ceiling. I powered through a barbell workout jumping around between sets and just exploding all over the place. I powered through very heavy weight like it was nothing.

I was running back and forth full speed on the full court basketball at midday tropical heat in the Philippines and not getting tired. I was exploding to rim with a power I thought was gone forever. After exploding to the rim, instead of feeling like I was ready to collapse, I was jumping, growing like a lion, and headed back down the court full speed to fly in the air and bam again two hand finger roll right near the lip of rim. A 50 fucking year old man who just last week could hardly fucking get out of bed.

What did you fucking say about milk  

(you have a confirmation bias and seek anything which can validate your vegan diet as being the best, thus you do not attempt to view the question objectively. It would make no sense at all that what humans have been eating for 1000s of years would be unhealthy for humans. Just a little common sense about the preponderance of time scales would tell you that your nonsense of the current day fad and disinformation is just that.)

P.S. I am back to 70 kg. So I gained 5 kg in roughly a week. And this isn't all fat gain. I am still looking very lean and muscles fibers very visible. This is muscle gain mostly. I really made a big jump in muscle mass from that day of drinking raw milk and eating native chicken and goat. When I woke up this morning, I felt like an ox.

[altcoinUK]

But let's get back on topic. This week I began experiencing a toothache. Never in my life did I have cavities nor any problem with my teeth. Why? Because I drank milk until my 30s. I have very strong teeth.

Dairy is important for calcium also.

You are probably the smartest person by far here, you obviously know a lot, but this is the second time I have to correct you on a popular misconception about foods (the beneficial effects of olive oil was the first).

Milk actually reduces calcium in your bones. Similarly to all animal proteins, milk acidifies the body pH level, which then triggers a biological correction. Calcium is an excellent acid neutraliser and since the biggest storage of calcium in the body your bones, then the very same calcium in your bones is utilized to neutralize the acidic effect of milk. Once calcium is pulled out of the bones, it leaves the body via the urine, and the net result is an actual calcium deficit. No wonder why statistics indicate that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population, while Denmark is on the top of the hip and other fracture statistics. A recent Swedish study published not long ago in the British Medical Journal points out that drinking three glasses of milk per day results in increased incidence of osteoporosis, bone fractures, and earlier mortality. These are independent university researches. On the other hand, as far as I know all researches/studies that suggest the benefits of milk (mainly the calcium myth) are funded by the diary industry.

Plant based sources of calcium such as leafy greens, nuts, dried basil are both healthier and more easily absorbed. One cup serving of soybean sprouts provides 46 per cent of daily calcium requirements which is the equivalent of a glass and a half of milk, except the soybean provides you with only 30 calories, which reduced calories intake is obviously better (for the vast majority of population). I fully understand by now that it is not applicable to you as you need an incredible amount of extreme calories for your top athlete regime, but 99.999% of the population is not in the league of Kobe Bryant and yourself, and therefore I think they should know that diary product is not good for human body (which I have been banging-on in the last few pages).

There are a few very good documentaries that summarizes how the diary industry and their sockpuppets in the FDA mislead the population about the benefit of milks.

I am sure you are having strong teeth despite of milk, and not because of milk. Your strong teeth most likely because of your genetics.

This link is interesting.
http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/

I am sorry but there is so much bullshit out there on the internet. You can't just cite everything you read as fact because it isn't.

First of all you can't leap to cite any shit about milk, because ostensibly none of the research is being done with raw, grass fed, A1 casein milk. Pasteurized milk isn't milk. Grain fed milk isn't milk. A2 casein GENETICALLY MODIFIED cows don't produce milk. Rather those are Frankenstein foods where all the enzymes and micro-nutrients have been destroyed. I suggest you pasteurize your GENETICALLY MODIFIED vegetables (and add heapings of pesticides and fertilizer to bring them to parity with Frankenstein Holstein cow's shit we drink), then run some studies on how unhealthy vegetables are.

arielbit pointed out up thread this point that cows that were fed the wrong shit couldn't even sustain their own calves.

It amazes me that people can't figure these basic things out and fall for that disinformation as you did. Sigh.

There is no way you can make a sane argument that native diary and native animal meat are unhealthy. That is absolute nonsense for idiots who can't discern between modern Frankenstein poisons that we label as "food" and the actual food that nature has produced for 1000s of years.

If raw milk is so bad, then please explain to me why today on my day after drinking raw milk, I had a miraculous day which is the first day in years where I felt incredibly strong.

I had the most intense sports day today. How can I describe my day? It is unbelievable. Here is 11pm and I am still jumping touching the ceiling. I powered through a barbell workout jumping around between sets and just exploding all over the place. I powered through very heavy weight like it was nothing.

I was running back and forth full speed on the full court basketball at midday tropical heat in the Philippines and not getting tired. I was exploding to rim with a power I thought was gone forever. After exploding to the rim, instead of feeling like I was ready to collapse, I was jumping, growing like a lion, and headed back down the court full speed to fly in the air and bam again two hand finger roll right near the lip of rim. A 50 fucking year old man who just last week could hardly fucking get out of bed.

What did you fucking say about milk  

(you have a confirmation bias and seek anything which can validate your vegan diet as being the best, thus you do not attempt to view the question objectively. It would make no sense at all that what humans have been eating for 1000s of years would be unhealthy for humans. Just a little common sense about the preponderance of time scales would tell you that your nonsense of the current day fad and disinformation is just that.)

P.S. I am back to 70 kg. So I gained 5 kg in roughly a week. And this isn't all fat gain. I am still looking very lean and muscles fibers very visible. This is muscle gain mostly. I really made a big jump in muscle mass from that day of drinking raw milk and eating native chicken and goat. When I woke up this morning, I felt like an ox.

I am fucking saying about milk that 99.9999% of population has no access to your miraculous raw milk and therefore they will get the crap from the supermarket milk. Most importantly, as I pointed out, regardless it is raw milk or pasteurized milk, milk causes calcium deficit. I explained the biological correction which the response of human body to milk - which results in calcium deficit.

I quoted studies and researches - in the meantime you are keep referring to your personal case which is frankly quite exceptional as
a) you are having a potentially terminal illness and apparently some days you feel so bad that you can't even get out from bed
b) terms of your exercise regime at other days you are in the league of Kobe Bryant and other world class top athletes
c) you have the luxury to get your food from the best natural resources of the world

I am sorry, that's not typical, but you suggest that we must make from your experience a general conclusion, one that should be applicable to the masses. It is not possible because your case is not typical. I am talking about typical and normal cases. I have been trying to point out what is relevant to the majority of population, even to the audience of this forum, to young males in their twenties: all of them will experience with heart disease or diabetes or high blood pressure (or both in many cases) due to personally they will have or one of their family members will suffer from that, statistic indicates that will happen. These are diseases that could reversed and cured with plant based and vegan diet, and not eating the crap pushed to supermarket shelves by large corporations: engineered meat, diary products, trans fat, corn syrup (90% of foods have that) and hydrogenated oils, i.e. processed food.

You classify as bullshit the logical conclusions that was derived from large data samples, in most of cases over many years of independent research. In contrast to the biological facts, studies and researches that I have quoted, you argue with your personal experience which include days when you are in the league with Kobe Bryant as well as days when you can't get out from bed.

Anyway, I am happy you feel better, try to keep yourself that way :-))))

EDIT:
I really don't want to validate any vegan diet. Especially that I eat fish and seafood. All I am saying is, researches and reports from patients who are willing to undertake plant based diet indicate that plant based diet  in majority of cases reverses heart disease and diabetes. The exactly same happened to me as well what researches indicate will happen once you get on plant based diet. The majority of population will experience with heart disease and diabetes.

[altcoinUK]

Re-read my post. I cited 5 references that say your acid PH claim is total bullshit nonsense.

Please do proper research before spreading nonsense that will harm the health of readers.

OK.

Statistic and data clearly indicates that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population, while counties with high diary consumption is on the top of the hip and other fracture statistics. Your quoted research doesn't invalidate that fact, just like the beneficial effects of plant based diet with regards to heart disease and diabetes is a fact.

I would also like you stop spreading nonsense that will harm the health of readers, especially that in one day you can't get out from bed, at other day you are in the league of Kobe Bryant, therefore your cases the 1 in a million odd one while the recovery of heart disease and diabetes patients from plant based diet is exclusively happening to all patients who undertake such diet.

[TPTB_need_war]

Originally I had tried to source my raw goat's milk from a foreigner in the adjacent subdivision who buys pasteurized goat's milk from the same location I purchased mine and he sells that in his small store nearby.

While I was there at this house speaking with him last week, this very frail, thin girl came over to hug him. Her arms weren't more than 1 inch in diameter! And I said, "is that your daughter and is she about 6 years old?". He replied, "no that is my son and he is 12". I was shocked.

Well then as I was explaining to him my health issue and why I wanted the RAW goat's milk, he told me that everyone in his family is 100% vegan. Ah so then it made sense how he stunted the growth of his son and turned him effeminate, and destroying the life of a child with some nonsense diet.

He proceed to try to talk me out of pursuing diet changes other than going 100% vegan and tried to convince me to go see his Korean acupuncturist. I told him frankly that I was going to pursue diet and probiotics first and I didn't want to risk messing up my intestines worse with needle punctures (even if the pressure points are not the intestines) nor with fad diets that might deplete the mucus lining of the intestine.

I believe he was offended, because he never did send me an SMS as promised, so I never got his number. Which is just for the better in any way.

altcoinUK, I hope you don't have a child.

[altcoinUK]

altcoinUK, I hope you don't have a child.

I have a few actually, and all of them are meat eaters :-))) they are adults and love to eat steak and all those nice meats which I loved so much. I asked them, when you will get to your 30s then remember what happened to me and how my heart disease was reveresed (just like many thousands other heart patients had), because I am sure my children are genetically programmed - just like me- to have issues with cholesterol and fat deposit on the artery.

[altcoinUK]

Statistic and data clearly indicates that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population

It is very frustrating to deal with people who have very low reading comprehension.

What did I say? Did those studies measure people who drink raw, grass-fed, A1 casein milk or those who drink some Frankenstein poison that is mislabeled "milk".

Thus you willfully are writing disinformation.

The scientific method doesn't seem to be something you comprehend.

And didn't I answer that I think in this context your raw milk is quite irrelevant as 99.999% of people simply unable to get your raw milk? The messages that milk is good for you has been pushed to people for decades, and all I am saying is, researches indicate that consuming the supermarket milk is not good for your health. Since 99.999% of consumers never can get raw milk why do wee need to debate the raw milk issue.

Terms of the raw milk risks, many scientists point out that the the all kind of bacteria in raw milk actually exposes you to more health risks than benefit. I am not sure if that the case, but I am just mentioning that there are lots of concerns with regards to that.

[TPTB_need_war]

Statistic and data clearly indicates that countries with the lowest consumption of dairy products also have the lowest fracture incidence in their population

It is very frustrating to deal with people who have very low reading comprehension.

What did I say? Did those studies measure people who drink raw, grass-fed, A1 casein milk or those who drink some Frankenstein poison that is mislabeled "milk".

Thus you willfully are writing disinformation.

The scientific method doesn't seem to be something you comprehend.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/07/18/the-milk-myth-what-your-body-really-needs.aspx

And, in fact, there’s serious doubt about the calcium in pasteurized milk because one of the worst side effects of pasteurization is that it renders much of the calcium contained in raw milk insoluble… This can lead to rickets, bad teeth, and nervous troubles, for sufficient calcium content is vital to children. Additionally, with the loss of phosphorus also associated with calcium, bone and brain formation can suffer serious setbacks.

Pasteurization also destroys part of the vitamin C contained in raw milk, and encourages growth of harmful bacteria.

Worst of all, however, dairy products from cows treated with Monsanto‘s genetically engineered bovine growth hormone (rBGH or rBST) could sharply increase your risk of cancer and other diseases, especially in children.

These detrimental side effects are not associated with drinking RAW milk, however.

In fact, raw milk is an excellent source of not only calcium but also a number of other nutrients such as vitamins, enzymes, and beneficial bacteria like lactobacillus acidophilus.

One other significant issue may actually be the species of cow that the milk is taken from. Milk from older cows, Jerseys, Asian and African cows may not cause problems, while milk from new cows like Holsteins, which has a mutation on one of the amino acids of casein, causes many people to not tolerate it well.

Do You Really Need Calcium for Strong Bones?

This long-held belief may not be as accurate as you’d like to think. Numerous studies have found NO association between high calcium intake and lower fracture risk. As is often the case, modern science may have picked apart and simplified the issue too much.

As Dr. Robert Thompson M.D. describes in his excellent book The Calcium Lie, your bone is composed of at least a dozen minerals, and if you focus exclusively on calcium supplementation you are likely going to worsen your bone density, and can actually increase your risk of osteoporosis.

You assume lack of calcium is responsible for greater fractures when in fact could be too much calcium that increases fractures, or it could even be the fluoride in our water and toothpaste in the West:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/11/11/fluoride-intake-increases-bone-fractures.aspx
http://fluoridealert.org/content/ifin-138/
http://fluoridation.com/bones.htm

Also even for example in the Philippines where they don't consume much dairy and where they don't play tackle football or do the risky activities we Westerners do habitually, they also eat a lot of fish which is high in calcium and more importantly has many nutrients.

[TPTB_need_war]

altcoinUK, I hope you don't have a child.

I have a few actually, and all of them are meat eaters :-))) they are adults and love to eat steak and all those nice meats which I loved so much. I asked them, when you will get to your 30s then remember what happened to me and how my heart disease was reveresed (just like many thousands other heart patients had), because I am sure my children are genetically programmed - just like me- to have issues with cholesterol and fat deposit on the artery.

So now we find out you were eating Frankenstein poison (not grass-fed, no hormones, no genetic modified meat) which may explain why you ended up with heart disease.

It is no wonder that Westerners are sick. They don't eat food.

I bet even the vegetables you eat are farmed and not wild.

[altcoinUK]

altcoinUK, I hope you don't have a child.

I have a few actually, and all of them are meat eaters :-))) they are adults and love to eat steak and all those nice meats which I loved so much. I asked them, when you will get to your 30s then remember what happened to me and how my heart disease was reveresed (just like many thousands other heart patients had), because I am sure my children are genetically programmed - just like me- to have issues with cholesterol and fat deposit on the artery.

So now we find out you were eating Frankenstein poison (not grass-fed, no hormones, no genetic modified meat) which may explain why you ended up with heart disease.

It is no wonder that Westerners are sick. They don't eat food.

I bet even the vegetables you eat are farmed and not wild.

I suggest to keep this conversation civil. I am having just enough that virtually none of your posts could be without a personal insult about my reading ability, intelligence, etc.  I fully understand one day you are in the league of Kobe Bryant and you are super athlete (who won nothing with this exceptional mentality and ability by the way, so I am not sure WTF are we talking about), other day you can't even get out from bed because you are so ill, but you feel qualified to educate others how to be healthy, but again, lets keep it civil.
 
To get back to the topic, yes, just like 99.999% of normal, average, working persons do, I got my food from supermarkets or restaurants  before my heart disease developed. I think that's what people - apart from Kobe Bryant and the likes - do: go to supermarket or eat in restaurants. According to health statistics heart disease is the biggest killer, so no wonder average people like me get it. And then, I listened to remarkable scientists such as Caldwell Esselstyn and T. Colin Campbell, got myself into their programs and then the heart condition was reversed  - just like many thousands other heart patients who had undertaken the diet had similar result.

I am going though on the pain of discussing this issue with you and listening you personal insults, because statistics indicate that majority of young readers of this thread will be experiencing one way or other with heart disease or diabetes (because yes, they are buying the fucking food from conventional sources such as supermarket) and I hope what I put here can help them before the heart disease develops or even after, when they are having a heart disease and they are in serious trouble, in most of the cases in life dangerous situation.

[TPTB_need_war]

altcoinUK, I apologize for my use of curse words last night before I slept. I was feeling my competitive desires last night after watching Gilas Philippines lose to China in the Final for the Fiba cup, which means Philippines got the silver medal won't automatically get a berth to the coming Olympics. I was particularly upset with them missing so many foul shots. These guys are on the national team and they should be waking up at 5am to shoot several hundred foul shots per day until they have perfected their shooting stroke. Also the naturalized-citizen NBA import Blanche looked so lazy and out of condition. I have been so sick for so long and thought I would never again be able to compete and so these guys don't have the same thirst for winning that can only come from knowing how precious the gift is they've been given.

So my point is I was pissed off that these Gilas guys are being lazy and unfocused, and then I see you doing the same thing, being too lazy to read the sources I cited and also from the start of your presentation extrapolating without even attempting to find counter arguments to your preferred confirmation bias. Also do note that you wrote that I am intelligent but this calcium point was an example where I had messed up. So instead of raising a factual discussion without any personalization, you started the discussion by trying to assert that I have a hole in my logical analysis of an issue. So you set me up to react to you with more disdain for your sloppy analysis.

I stick to my point that you are doing junk science. You extrapolate your religious experience with vegetables to everything without any shred of proof to combat the 1000s of years of history of what man has been eating. For example, with the fractured bones datum, I don't even know if those studies have factored out increased drug use and medications in the Western world, i.e. Western medicine. Etc, etc, etc..

Common sense would tell you that the first and most suspect to look at would be what has changed to man's diet in the past 100 years and especially since WW2 where the corporate-military-fascist establishment had taken over the Western world and turned it into this Frankenstein world that the baby boomers love so much.

On a positive note, I woke up this morning feeling 100% normal after a very intense athletic day yesterday. Since I have been more acutely ill since May 2012, I always feel like shit after a hard exercise day. So this is quite a remarkable day for me. Even my gf asked me in disbelief this morning, "no pains, no headache, no numbness in your legs, not feeling tired?". I responded, that only a very slight feeling tinges of those former ailments, but mostly feeling that my stomach is very empty and asked her to go buy some wild leafy greens and raw tuna for my morning meal. If I have my health back, I am truly blessed and I won't waste the opportunity to get back into top athletic condition.

Also I think right now (Sunday) is the time to start programming full speed again. Last night my mind was very active and contemplating all sorts of algorithms and ideas. This is the way I normally am but had lost this due to being so ill.

If this health improvement sustains, then we can conclude with high degree of certainty that my illness was due to gut dysbiosys and also add another anecdotal pledge that raw milk may have been involved in the cure. The author of gutcritters.com also credits raw milk to the cure of his gut dysbiosis.

I think all of us want to get some results and too much talk we've been doing.

[TPTB_need_war]

I suggest to keep this conversation civil.

That begins with you not asserting that I have hole in my logic about calcium, enzymes, amino acids, and other nutrients of raw, grass-fed goat's (A1 casein) milk, when you have apparently been too lazy to search for counter arguments to the acid hypothesis you promulgated.

Civility means raising a point in a non-personalized manner (do you think I am intelligent and then suddenly I got stupid about a health issue that is crucial to everything in my life right now, it just boggles my mind how you could possibly think I would  ) and also means not being too lazy to try to prove a hypothesis is weak before proposing it as a strong hypothesis and even accusing me of being myopic.

The mirror is looking at you man. Look into it. Admit your error. Man up. I do.

I am having just enough that virtually none of your posts could be without a personal insult about my reading ability, intelligence, etc.

And you implied the same of me yet what makes me more livid is you are the one who is doing what you accused me of (being myopic).

I find this trait of humans very very despicable. I like people who man up and strive to correct their weaknesses.

I don't think you've really gone overboard with it. And thus I apologize for the curse words. But come on man, calling the kettle black when you got soot all over yourself.

You could begin right now by admitting your mistake, yet still you insist (against all logic) below...

I fully understand one day you are in the league of Kobe Bryant and you are super athlete (who won nothing with this exceptional mentality and ability by the way, so I am not sure WTF are we talking about), other day you can't even get out from bed because you are so ill, but you feel qualified to educate others how to be healthy, but again, lets keep it civil.

Why can't you understand that I have been extremely ill. I have been every second of every day struggling to find a cure. I have been struggling to not fall apart, by summoning effort from the bowels of nothing left inside of me, due to extreme will power. Yet still I was losing the battle.

Then apparently I discover the cure (fingers crossed!) that an ultra focus on putting probiotics and raw foods into my body, with a final coup of drinking raw goat's milk which is like a cream from heaven for the gut (I could feel it soothe my gut from the instant I took my first gulp). And then as I've been gaining slowly some improvement over the past 6 days as I had documented every day here mentioning that I had taken 20,000 IU vitamin D3 daily, had really focused my eating and including several cups of raw leafy wild grown greens daily, and documenting that my defecation had been restored to every morning (versus once or twice a week since the fasting). And also my noting that before the fasting I had been eating too much supermarket chicken, beef, and pork.

So then yesterday, I get a breakthrough day. What is difficult to understand about that?

There has been much research linking the autoimmunity of Multiple Sclerosis with gut dysbiosys. And in my case, it appears to be strongly proven to be the case based on circumstantial evidence even without clinical lab confirmation.

If you (or klee or anyone else) doubts my suffering over the past 3 years, then I will have a boat load of curse words for them, because I and everyone who has been around me has observed the severe suffering I have endured.

Why does it require so many written words to explain such simple points? Why are you (and klee and others) so slow to comprehend   I just can't fathom how readers can be so incapable of reading or of interpreting words in such obtuse ways that don't mesh with the common sense way of interpreting.

To get back to the topic, yes, just like 99.999% of normal, average, working persons do, I got my food from supermarkets or restaurants  before my heart disease developed. I think that's what people - apart from Kobe Bryant and the likes - do: go to supermarket or eat in restaurants.

Who ever said Kobe and I haven't sourced our food from supermarkets our entire lives? I never wrote anything to the contrary.

I have made it abundantly clear that only recently have I sourced raw foods (here in Mindanao, Philippines where I am). I have also provided numerous links showing that it is also possible to do so in the USA. I don't know about there in the UK. Perhaps Tesco has you all fenced in, but seems I did see UK farms in that video of the Lotus Elise with the Hayabusa engine.

Just because you and most humans (including myself until recently) are too ill informed and unmotivated to go obtain food that is healthy, has logically nothing to say about a factual discussion about which foods are healthy (although it is a potential explanation for why such discussions end up non-factual, religious, unscientific, and illogical).

According to health statistics heart disease is the biggest killer, so no wonder average people like me get it. And then, I listened to remarkable scientists such as Caldwell Esselstyn and T. Colin Campbell, got myself into their programs and then the heart condition was reversed  - just like many thousands other heart patients who had undertaken the diet had similar result.

Has it even occurred to you that if you take people who are eating industrialized poisons which are not food, and you feed them instead farmed vegetables which less of a poison even though not ideal balanced health, then you may likely get an abatement of the worst symptoms of dietary disease.

Yet that doesn't prove anything about whether a 100% vegan diet is the optimum balanced diet.

If the baseline is absolute poison, then anything that is not poison can be better. But that doesn't mean that anything is optimum.

This is just Logic 101.

I am going though on the pain of discussing this issue with you and listening you personal insults, because statistics indicate that majority of young readers of this thread will be experiencing one way or other with heart disease or diabetes (because yes, they are buying the fucking food from conventional sources such as supermarket) and I hope what I put here can help them before the heart disease develops or even after, when they are having a heart disease and they are in serious trouble, in most of the cases in life dangerous situation.

I have already explained that you started by making this painful for me. You attacked me personally with an invalid acid hypothesis, and then you further attack me with comments questioning if I was ever extremely sick, just because lately I have discovered a diet and treatment regimen that appears to be working well at least for the past 5 days (which is not enough time to be totally confident yet).

I had even stated that I was not against your vegan diet especially for treating very serious heart disease. But that I wanted to look at this factually as to whether 100% vegan is optimum.

And you have persisted religiously instead of scientifically (which is normal nonsense behavior for religious vegans!). It is just more of that same Western culture that I hate so much where they think they can fix the world and they think they are correct, yet they are fucking incorrect on almost everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that is why the West will collapse. I am so tired of white women and their condescending crap. And now also I see the men have the same bad habits in their culture.

Indeed both smooth and I had already agreed with you up thread that in a life threatening condition such as heart disease, then if veganism provides a big improvement and is readily available, then definitely that is the go to option.

But that is not the discussion we've been having since that admission. Instead we've been having a discussion about optimum diet and also how to cure my gut dysbiosis and concomitant Multiple Sclerosis. And you tried to tell me that raw milk is bad and in fact it appears to perhaps be the cure!

Aren't you the least bit shamed for potentially giving me disinformation that could have prevented me from being cured if I had listened to you!

With your allusions to Kobe Byrant, you assume that I am somehow different than others who are suffering from gut dysbiosis and other concomitant ramifications of it, but that was not my point in raising the fact that I have strong will power. My will power has nothing to do logically with whether I am cured by any particular diet.

So don't delude yourself that everyone else who has gut dysbiosys will be cured only with 100% vegan diet. At times, I was eating all vegetables before over the past 3 years, but it did not cure me. I tried so many different diets and supplements. You have no idea how much I struggled to find a cure!

It appears the key insight is the raw WILD GROWN leafy veggies because I cited that clinical study up thread that showed these can raise the diversity of gut microflora. And couple this with the amazing boost I got from the RAW, GRASS-FED, NATIVE BREED goat's milk.

[TPTB_need_war]

Further confirmation today. This is the day after a brutal athletic day where normally I should be bed ridden or at best exhausted and struggling if I try to do any athletic activity.

Just powered through a 2.25 kms run like it was nothing. I was even accelerating towards the end of the run and not my recent past of struggling not to pass out before I reached the end of the run.

Run at 12 noon in Mindanao (near the equator) on a blazing hot day with the bright sun out, officially 32 Celsius (90 F) and 66% humidity. Given I ran on the concrete roads of the subdivision, add a few degrees. And I was amazed that I was actually feeling moments of being cold (or cool) on the run. One of the things I had noticed with the Multiple Sclerosis (which is one of the listed symptoms) is that I had become much less heat tolerant. My entire life I was like a snake who loved the heat. I would seek out the heat daily to warm up. Lately I had difficulty handling the heat.  But today not!

[Johnny Mnemonic]

... raw, grass-fed goat's (A1 casein) milk, when you have apparently been too lazy to search for counter arguments to the acid hypothesis you promulgated.

I'm not trying to split hairs, but you've made the same error a few times now. A1 beta-casein is the bad stuff. The healthy protein from goat's milk is A2.

-----------------------------------------------

altcoinUK, please be careful what conclusions you draw from the work of T. Colin Campbell in The China Study. It's been so heavily debunked that it's considered by many respected experts to be junk science.

Wanna see the real science? This is what happens when you compare Campbell's claims against his own data:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Sorry, but that's some pretty damning material.

And just for fun, here's a debate between T. Colin Campbell and Loren Cordain on human protein requirements. Notice that Cordain's arguments contain over 150 citations to research studies, while Campbell's argument contains no citations at all:
http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinDebate.pdf

TL;DR T. Colin Campbell's The China Study is evidence of nothing but fraud.

[altcoinUK]

And you tried to tell me that raw milk is bad and in fact it appears to perhaps be the cure!

Aren't you the least bit shamed for potentially giving me disinformation that could have prevented me from being cured if I had listened to you!

That's a great news you are cured.
I am not sure what serious, terminal illness you have that drinking raw milk for 3 days could cure you, but since I am not doctor, better if I not speculate on that. For the very same reason, that I am not Prof. Dr. AltcoinUK PhD BMed but a random fucker I am not ashamed that I shared my opinion on an Internet forum. I assumed from the beginning that with your intellect you will make the decision on your own with regards to the solution to your problem, but please believe me that I shared my opinion with the best intention.

So don't delude yourself that everyone else who has gut dysbiosys will be cured only with 100% vegan diet. At times, I was eating all vegetables before over the past 3 years, but it did not cure me. I tried so many different diets and supplements.

I have just quoting this one sentence of yours because it probably summarizes the source of our misunderstanding. I never stated that plant based diet is a universal solution to everything nor that it will cure gut dysbiosys. I have not stated that, because
   a) I have no idea what gut dysbiosys is
   b) I have been specifically talking about and focusing on heart disease, diabetes, the two biggest health issues for westerners.
   
Yes, beginning of our conversation I suggested that perhaps you could try plant based diet instead of taking the saturated fat rich diary products and meat.  By now, I understand that you have already tried it, in fact you had been eating vegetables for 3 years (which is not equivalent with vegan diet but never mind), such diet didn't help you and now, thanks God, you found out that raw milk is the solution to your problem. I couldn’t be happier if raw milk sort out your Multiple Sclerosis. As I said at the beginning I have nothing but respect to you, and it would be great if you could sort out your health problem so we could read lot longer your posts on economy, society, computer science, etc.

I believe, we are trying to say the same thing. I do that with my bad English and of course you do that with your exceptional intellect and as always with your very educated posts. We are saying that the corrupt political system allows large corporations to poison the population with processed food aka sugar, trans fat, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup and the sockpuppets of large food companies in the FDA assist to that.

Which I have been asserting is that by taking plant based diet, by definition there isn't any sugar intake nor trans fat nor corn syrup nor hydrogenated oils consumption. No wonder heart disease and diabetes is non-existent in cases when the diet is plant based, or the condition could be reversed once the patient undertake plant based diet. If the individual is not a religious vegan and eat low fat fish/seafood (without oil) regularly like I do, then you could get the benefits of low fat protein, Omega 3, etc. which (i.e. the large quantity of vegetables combined with small amount of fish without oil) probably makes Japanese the longest living people. That's all I am saying from the beginning. And again I am very happy you could find the solution for your problem.

[altcoinUK]

... raw, grass-fed goat's (A1 casein) milk, when you have apparently been too lazy to search for counter arguments to the acid hypothesis you promulgated.

I'm not trying to split hairs, but you've made the same error a few times now. A1 beta-casein is the bad stuff. The healthy protein from goat's milk is A2.

-----------------------------------------------

altcoinUK, please be careful what conclusions you draw from the work of T. Colin Campbell in The China Study. It's been so heavily debunked that it's considered by many respected experts to be junk science.

Wanna see the real science? This is what happens when you compare Campbell's claims against his own data:
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/
Sorry, but that's some pretty damning material.

And just for fun, here's a debate between T. Colin Campbell and Loren Cordain on human protein requirements. Notice that Cordain's arguments contain over 150 citations to research studies, while Campbell's argument contains no citations at all:
http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/downloads/proteinDebate.pdf

TL;DR T. Colin Campbell's The China Study is evidence of nothing but fraud.

Thanks for the link, it is very interesting. Please note, I have never stated the plant based diet lowers the chance of cancer. I am aware of that most studies point out that plant based diet has no statistically measurable effect on cancer.  As for the cardiovascular section, I think there is a hypothesis was thrown at Campbell's hypothesis. Since hypothesis vs hypothesis, I can't see anything else than intellectual back and forth (some calls it who is the biggest dick competition) between two scientists.

I wouldn't like to get into the debate whether Campbell's study is a junk science or not. Firstly I am not a scientist, long time ago, at the time they called like that, I was trained to be a computer programmer, so I am not qualified to make the judgement whether a study is junk science or not. Researches and studies funded by large pharmaceuticals will naturally conclude that Campbell's study is a junk science. After all Campbell is a serious threat to a $100 billion revenue stream (I understand the link you quoted is not funded by those crocs). It was no study in the history of science when another scientist wouldn't like to disproof the theory by most of times asserting a new hypothesis, so when from 10 scientists 5 support Campbell's view, another 5 says it is a junk science then I see that as a usual back and forth between scientists.

For me the most important is, that based on the theme and educational work of Campbell the cure of heart diseases and diabetes is starting to take a new path. Not to mention, it saved me a major heart surgery and saved the life by reversing the condition for almost all heart disease and diabetes patients who have undertaken the plant based i.e. not processed food based diet. One thing is sure: when you are on a plant based diet, eating lots of vegetable, fruit and not consuming processed food then your processed sugar intake is zero, your trans fat, hydrogenated oils, corn syrup intake is zero as well. No wonder the condition of heart diseases and diabetes patients is dramatically reversed once they get on plant based diet.

I am hoping this conversation will help a few young men of this thread when they are getting older, and then their doctors will tell that your cholesterol is getting high or it seems you are having diabetes issues. Or when someone from their family is having such issues. (since heart disease and diabetes are the biggest killer there is a good chance either the young men of this thread or their family members will experience with those diseases). And then I hope they will remember at the time - when the diseases are not critical yet - they have the option to go to a 3 months plant based diet (first just try it and see if it is doable). And then, they will see how the indicators of  life dangerous high cholesterol and diabetes will be lowered.

[TPTB_need_war]

As I wrote earlier today, 5 or 6 days is not enough time to be confident of a cure or permanent improvement in health.  About an hour after riding that high feeling, the horrible symptoms returned with a vengeance and I've been bed ridden the entire afternoon and evening unable to work with all the horrible symptoms that I loath, such as severe fatigue, bad headache, gut pain, and cramping, painful feet.

Note I ate even more wild grown leafy green vegetables today than prior days. But I didn't drink any raw grass-fed goat's milk today, because my liter sample was depleted the prior night.

So tomorrow I am ready to purchase 11 liters and we will see if the raw goat's milk is indeed the excelsior. It might just be a cycle I go through after hard exercise. Again there are many variables to isolate and correlate, so it is too early to jump to conclusions. I will just say I felt really, really good after drinking the goat's milk, so it will be interesting to see what result I get tomorrow.

I need to sleep now and wake up 5am to arrive by 7am at the distant farm for the milking time.

[TPTB_need_war]

Very tumultuous and mostly non-sleep, borderline fever perhaps and very watery diarrhea. Definitely my M.S. symptoms correlate with gut dysbiosys. Is the M.S. causing the gut dysbiosys or vice versa (or are they both in synergistic mode)?

I had a lot of pain in my gut all night. More so than usual. Note I made the error of eating bread last night when we were out at the mall to buy more glass jars, stainless large pot for collecting the milk, and an ice chest for the long drive when fetching the raw milk. So that might have exacerbated my symptoms. But I am not sure, because I am not sure if the dysbiosys is in my upper intestive, lower or colon. And it takes days to digest to the lower portion of the gut.

Apparently it takes 3 days for eaten food to make it to the colon. I note I ate a hamburger on Thursday (again due to being in the mall and having no other options for food, perhaps I should try the food court next time) and so exactly 3 days later was when this relapse began (it began after eating lunch after my excellent run). Also I first drank raw milk on Friday evening, so I don't know if some bacteria in that had made it to what ever area of my gut is in pain. The pain is moving around too as the food moves through my intestines and colon apparently.

So I just don't know yet what is the trigger. Need more experimentation.

I don't really feel like driving far, but I will force myself and hope without incident.

And you tried to tell me that raw milk is bad and in fact it appears to perhaps be the cure!

Aren't you the least bit shamed for potentially giving me disinformation that could have prevented me from being cured if I had listened to you!

That's a great news you are cured. e solution for your problem.

The low reading comprehension is very frustrating to deal with. Did I say I was surely cured.

If I have my health back, I am truly blessed and I won't waste the opportunity to get back into top athletic condition.

...

If this health improvement sustains, then ...

... then you further attack me with comments questioning if I was ever extremely sick, just because lately I have discovered a diet and treatment regimen that appears to be working well at least for the past 5 days (which is not enough time to be totally confident yet).

[TPTB_need_war]

... raw, grass-fed goat's (A1 casein) milk, when you have apparently been too lazy to search for counter arguments to the acid hypothesis you promulgated.

I'm not trying to split hairs, but you've made the same error a few times now. A1 beta-casein is the bad stuff. The healthy protein from goat's milk is A2.

Thanks. Actually I was thinking I had juxtaposed it and just dealing with too many issues all of a sudden to get back to checking and correcting. I typically replay in mind everything I write over and over, I have that sort of memory (which helps a lot with programming, one time I lost 300 lines of code and was able to rewrite it verbatim from memory). Actually this trait is annoying because sometimes I can't turn it off, and one of the reasons I like sports to release that addictive mental mode.

[TPTB_need_war]

I am not sure what serious, terminal illness you have that drinking raw milk for 3 days could cure you...

So don't delude yourself that everyone else who has gut dysbiosys will be cured only with 100% vegan diet. At times, I was eating all vegetables before over the past 3 years, but it did not cure me. I tried so many different diets and supplements.

I have just quoting this one sentence of yours because it probably summarizes the source of our misunderstanding. I never stated that plant based diet is a universal solution to everything nor that it will cure gut dysbiosys. I have not stated that, because
   a) I have no idea what gut dysbiosys is
   b) I have been specifically talking about and focusing on heart disease, diabetes, the two biggest health issues for westerners.
   
Yes, beginning of our conversation I suggested that...

No you told me that raw milk was very bad and that normally I am intelligent but I had lost my way on this one...

Before you preach, you should at least do your research on the topic you are preaching about.

I do very much appreciate the empathy and the concern and the willingness to help. Those are all very desirable human traits. And I applaud you for those traits.

The problem comes when know-it-all Westerners don't know it all but think they do and go stomping all over the place on others with their ignorance.

I admitted that vegan diet probably has benefits and even that for heart disease might be critical. Yet you persisted to shove down my throat that I was ignorant about not being 100% vegan.

I am not sure yet what is the correct diet for me. I am trying to experiment and isolate the variables.

Thanks and please no hard feelings. I just have to tell you frankly, because I tried to be nice but then I was being called dumb.