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Author Topic: Martin Armstrong Discussion  (Read 646799 times)
OROBTC (OP)
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May 05, 2016, 08:15:19 PM
 #2061

...

It's not really news, but Armstrong puts up a piece again illustrating what is going on in Europe re RAPEFUGEES:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/europes-current-economy/euro-collapsing-thanks-to-another-brain-dead-eu-proposal/

Zero Hedge has another story re Austria and RAPEFUGEES.

*   *   *

London apparently elected their first Muslim mayor.

*   *   *

Tick tock.  Got gold?
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May 05, 2016, 10:01:08 PM
 #2062


*   *   *

London apparently elected their first Muslim mayor.

*   *   *


Not sure if this quote is from the new mayor or not, but isn't multiculturalism wonderful. . .  Tongue  Cheesy

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/07/03/diane-abbott-london-doesn-t-need-another-white-middle-aged-m
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May 06, 2016, 06:11:38 AM
 #2063

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-price-tipping-point/

The European Commission now wants to compel European member states to accept refugees by imposing a fine of 250,000 euros per applicant they deny.

The $250,000 fine is so high ostensibly because in order to have the desired effect, logically it has to be greater than the cost of giving free welfare to the rapefugees.

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May 06, 2016, 06:14:39 AM
 #2064


*   *   *

London apparently elected their first Muslim mayor.

*   *   *


Not sure if this quote is from the new mayor or not, but isn't multiculturalism wonderful. . .  Tongue  Cheesy

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/07/03/diane-abbott-london-doesn-t-need-another-white-middle-aged-m


I don't believe it is, Sadiq Khan is Labour's candidate. I think there are issues with some vote counts in some boroughs, but it could be decided by now, I haven't checked. Diane Abbot is quite the piece of work too though Wink




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May 06, 2016, 08:10:54 AM
 #2065

It is highly unlikely to see gold under one thousand ever again, http://www.goldcore.com/us/gold-blog/sharia-gold-standard-2-trillion-in-assets-could-send-price-soaring/

ARDOR - Blockchain as a Service. Three birds with one stone. /// Do not hold NXT at exchanges, NXT wallets: core+lite, mobile Android
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May 07, 2016, 06:08:52 PM
 #2066

2018 Kaboom!

https://www.docdroid.net/file/download/i3f8uVF/stanley-druckenmiller-the-end-game.pdf (see page 7)

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21698240-it-question-when-not-if-real-trouble-will-hit-china-coming-debt-bust

With fondest memories Roll Eyes of your banned spiritual leader who I hope was hit by door on his way out.

Butt is a bit sore, but it is from sitting in the programming chair 18 hours a day.
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May 07, 2016, 10:55:40 PM
 #2067

Thank you ...now get back to work, time is short.
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May 10, 2016, 10:22:58 AM
 #2068

Does Martin use the wrong numbers?

In the private blog he is talking:

"In gold, Friday's closing was admirable at 1289.7, but not good enough." (may 6th)

But the closing numer is 1294.0
This was also shown in his market watch an here on the comex dates
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/p.../gold.html

What is going on here?

I realised on an other chart that the close of the last hour of a trading session is different than the day closing. Is a closing of the end of the week maybe different than on friday?

An other one:
He also posted on may 6th:
"Last week's closing was 1285.60" --> for gold nearest futures
But it was 1290.5 shown in the comex http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/p.../gold.html

iam realy confused
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May 10, 2016, 07:30:15 PM
 #2069

Does Martin use the wrong numbers?

In the private blog he is talking:

"In gold, Friday's closing was admirable at 1289.7, but not good enough." (may 6th)

But the closing numer is 1294.0
This was also shown in his market watch an here on the comex dates
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/p.../gold.html

What is going on here?

I realised on an other chart that the close of the last hour of a trading session is different than the day closing. Is a closing of the end of the week maybe different than on friday?

An other one:
He also posted on may 6th:
"Last week's closing was 1285.60" --> for gold nearest futures
But it was 1290.5 shown in the comex http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/p.../gold.html

iam realy confused
I'd also like to know which data source he reverences with his forecasts. see below
Quote
http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/34083
It appears that a June closing on cash below 11095 in the Euro will reflect GRexit. ...
closing was above that.
google gave me several slightly different values for this, what is the canon data source for these predictions?

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May 11, 2016, 06:49:14 AM
Last edit: May 11, 2016, 07:11:12 AM by Alex-11
 #2070

I'd also like to know which data source he reverences with his forecasts. see below

I know it  for Gold only. It's the "last" column on the quotes settlements. I assume it's for the other commodities the same. Martin has wrote about this yesterday  in his private blog.
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_quotes_settlements_futures.html#tradeDate=05/06/2016
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May 12, 2016, 04:30:20 AM
 #2071

...

Armstrong comes out swinging on a New Jersey proposal to guarantee public sector employee pensions in their state constitution. 

Like Illinois did.  Illinois is well known for its desperate financial condition, state bankruptcy (in some form) is likely.  SIX other states protect PUBLIC employee pensions (but not private sector employees).  Those states might be among the next to go down the tubes, will NJ join them? 

Read all about it:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/new-jersey-to-follow-illinois-down-the-drain/
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May 12, 2016, 09:05:50 PM
 #2072


China's economy will have a reset in 2020

How'd you come up with that year?

EDIT
oops, of course, never mind!  Tongue
I can't keep up with all your nicknames!

I have a triangulation of three sources:

1. Martin Armstrong's computer and database.
2. Michael Pettis's (China expert, widely respected) calculations (and he has been correct several times already).
3. The charts showing China is nearing the Minsky Moment:


The new username is temporarily forced by a 10 day ban.
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May 13, 2016, 11:14:42 AM
Last edit: May 13, 2016, 12:49:47 PM by sockpuppet1
 #2073

I believe we should all give TPTB some heat regarding his prediciton of double digits BTC in 2016.

I have also stated that I thought that when gold crashes below $1000 (and likely below $850) this year, then Bitcoin would also likely get caught up in the contagion and sell off to below $150 perhaps back to double-digits.

This is laughable.

I have said the bottom may not be in yet for gold and Bitcoin.

The timing was originally 2016, but what has changed is that the US Fed decided to delay raising interest rates to try to help Europe. And then the elite hatched this plan to have a BREXIT vote so as to reaffirm the U.K.'s commitment to the EU. This BREXIT victory for the EU, coupled with the delay in raising interest rates, is causing the confidence to swing temporarily back to the Euro (away from the dollar) and is giving a deadcat bounce to speculation markets (which require general liquidity because they are all about harvesting the funds of stoopid greater fool n00bs).

But this delay is causing pension plans to go bankrupt and is causing all the excesses of debt to move well above nosebleed levels:


China's economy will have a reset in 2020

How'd you come up with that year?

I have a triangulation of three sources:

1. Martin Armstrong's computer and database.
2. Michael Pettis's (China expert, widely respected) calculations (and he has been correct several times already).
3. The charts showing China is nearing the Minsky Moment:


The new username is temporarily forced by a 10 day ban.


So what we have is a massive Minsky Moment being tightly wound like a spring fully compressed that is going to explode once the Euro peaks (perhaps as high as 1.24). We are waiting for the BREXIT to drive this counter-trend, deadcat rally to its extreme.

Then upon the election of Trump in November, coinciding with that global liquidity contagion Minsky Moment as interest rates start to move and the dollar starts gaining again, then roughly Q1 2017 (but anytime after BREXIT peak is still possible in later 2016), we are going to see a massive liquidity crunch where everyone will pile on short and overshoot to the bottom on every asset except US dollars. Trump will drive a desire to hold dollars as he will threaten trade and currency wars against China.

Trump will win because he will move more to the center of right after he secures the Republican nomination. He will become nicer and people will see him in a more positive light. And he will destroy Hellary's reputation with his skilled way of attacking. He had to appeal to the hard right in order to stop the entrenched power players in the Republican party from stealing the nomination from him. He might even appoint Bernie Sanders as Vice President.

Thus the selloff of gold and Bitcoin as well (and altcoins to near 0), but this will be very brief V bottom just like in 2008/2009, then the world's capital will stampede into the dollar, dollar denominated assets such as US stock markets and trophy real estate, and also gold and CC will swing back to bullish mode with the final bottom finally reached.

The latest essay from Armstrong is very important:

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/stock-indicies/sp-500/trading-volumes-declines-as-hoarding-rises-due-to-uncertainty/


Edit note Trump is very pro-NSA and even supports laws breaking encryption. He appointed Doug Christie who is very totalitarian about NSA (go back and listen to the early Republican debates). I could see Trump potentially becoming very anti-Bitcoin especially with the mining centralization in China. However if Bitcoin is really the House of Morgan's baby, then Trump will be obliged to not attack Bitcoin.




we are going to see a massive liquidity crunch where everyone will pile on short and overshoot to the bottom on every asset except US dollars

Bitcoin will go up because it's the Rolls Royce of capital flight, so if you actually believe everyone on earth is going to flood to US dollars (instead of de-pegging from the dollar in general), then it's the go to play to catch market share in that capital flight.

Correct. Agreed. But remember that comes after the V bottom liquidity crunch. A liquidity crunch is not a safe haven move. It is a liquidity survival carry trade reversal on auto-pilot. Human decisions are not in play.

In a liquidity crunch, people are dumping illiquid assets for cash.

Exactly because their leveraged obligations and margin calls are in cash. And that is not Bitcoin "cash".

Bitcoin IS CASH.  There's no reason for it to go down.  Trust in banks will be next to ZERO during all of this.  Nobody is going to liquidate all of their assets to just be stored as digital fiat in a bank account.  People will be going wild for Bitcoin because Bitcoin has no bank holiday for the government to Cyprus you.

Sorry you are wrong.



Exactly because their leveraged obligations and margin calls are in cash. And that is not Bitcoin "cash".

I don't think you're taking into account what demographic is actually being "squeezed" in a liquidity crunch.  The people who own most of these things (BTC) are already rich in the first place and have no debt.  The people who aren't rich and own them have some totally insignificant amount.

The real people getting squeezed are the middle class Americans with McMansions, private schools, and cars they can't afford.  What is the common denominator of that group?  They all own stocks and none of them own Bitcoin.  People on the bottom and middle are the ones being squeezed.  Stocks are mainstream, Bitcoin and gold aren't.  Therefore, the stock dump will be horrific while things such as Bitcoin, as long as the confidence level is high (from 12.5 block reward halving bubble gains) will not only not go down, but will probably be going up as a safe haven from banks that will Cyprus you because Bitcoin is cash without counterparty risk.

Well I lately more and more realize that Bitcoin is a funnel where n00bs come in to buy and miners cash out. The stalwarts don't buy more, as they are few in number and already have their big portion.

So an interruption in the stream of n00bs might have a domino deleveraging effect, since many people loan their BTC short to earn extra revenue.

Leverage may be hiding where you think you see only HODLers.

Also with the halving and marginal miners not wanting to turn their ASICs into door stops, they may be in a more strained position and need to deleverage in a contagion.



There is leverage from lending BTC for income, but if holders fear counterparty risk and instead pull their coins off exchanges that will only squeeze the shorts and drive the price higher, potentially much higher. I don't think anyone really knows how much short leverage is out there.

If they fear counterparty risk, they will cause a stampede and cause counterparty defaults.

The slowdown in buying from n00bs, can cause the price to drop, which will cause the enriched shorts to pile on (cash out their initial investment and gamble the profits) overshooting to the lower low bottom. Plus all the copycats chasing the trend especially with the "world is falling down" hysteria.

V bottom on steriods. Buy the bottom same as in 2009.



Look guys it is very simple. Bitcoin is not the fiat that everyone uses as their unit-of-account, thus fiat up, Bitcoin down just like every other speculative (hot money) asset in a liquidity crunch.

People invest in Bitcoin to make money, not to hold it as a heirloom. Thus when shorting becomes the new profit trend, the speculators chase the trend. The loaners of BTC raise their rates. Everybody is happy. Bitcoin goes down.

2008 took silver from $21 to $9. Bitcoin is more volatile than silver.

Come on guys, Bitcoin is not cash. That is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Bitcoin is a crypto gambler's addiction. Period. You guys need to get out and get some fresh air and look at yourselves more objectively.
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May 13, 2016, 03:50:47 PM
 #2074

Quote from: sockpuppet1

I have said the bottom may not be in yet for gold and Bitcoin.

The timing was originally 2016, but what has changed is that the US Fed decided to delay raising interest rates to try to help Europe. And then the elite hatched this plan to have a BREXIT vote so as to reaffirm the U.K.'s commitment to the EU. This BREXIT victory for the EU, coupled with the delay in raising interest rates, is causing the confidence to swing temporarily back to the Euro (away from the dollar) and is giving a deadcat bounce to speculation markets (which require general liquidity because they are all about harvesting the funds of stoopid greater fool n00bs).

But this delay is causing pension plans to go bankrupt and is causing all the excesses of debt to move well above nosebleed levels:


Agree with most of your analysis, except the bolded part.

Delaying the rate rise superficially seems to help Europe, by containing any outflows into the US, however the current central banker theory of 'less is more' works the other way. Central banking has become a way to move by expectation. The delay, likely organised, strengthened a Euro already suffering under negative interest rates.

It was a non rate rise tactic to help China through 'less is more' ie, everyone sort -of expected the US dot plot to be 4 rises. Not strengthening by raising weakens the USD (which had strengthened considerably recently and put massive pressure on the Yuan peg). So, by not meeting expectations the Fed has effectively weakened the USD and relieved the pressure on the Yuan.

Now, notice Draghi and Kuroda both also missed expectations in quick succession ('less is more' - less easing, less negative than expected). This has the effect of strengthening their respective currencies v the USD. In this situation, China hasn't uttered a word but it's major trading partners have all appreciated their currencies, which helps the Yuan which was the most under pressure after August and January.

This deal seems to have been struck at the G20 - the Shanghai Accord.


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May 13, 2016, 05:25:32 PM
Last edit: May 13, 2016, 06:37:11 PM by sockpuppet1
 #2075

Anonymint is totally overlooking counterparty risk of banks here and it makes 0 sense to me.  Physical cash, Bitcoin, and gold is the only three things I'd want to hold during it.  You cannot play carpet bagger and "buy the dip" of whatever asset using physical cash or gold because...you simply can't.  You're basically advocating storing all your money in a bank as digital fiat of no value during the biggest financial crash in history with the objective of day trading it, which doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

I never said you should sell and wait for the dip. That is your decision to make. I also didn't say a V crash is certain, but rather contingent.

I didn't even get into counterparty risk of where to store your alternative value if one chooses to exit Bitcoin now in anticipation of lower prices later. You could definitely hold physical dollars ($20s not $100s) and probably be sure of being able to convert those back into BTC. But there are issues such as how much cash you can convert at a time and that does move you back through the anti-money laundering rigmarole.

Other options are to short Bitcoin. But timing is very critical and also exchange risk.

Personally if I still had any money (which I don't!) I would sell some BTC and hold dollars. Then I would prepare to buy gold < $1050 (probably $850ish) with the cash. Down the line I could convert that gold back to crypto again. If I got lucky to buy BTC < $150 with any of that cash, then I would do that.

In short, I'd diversify.

Not selling any of this deadcat bounce from $230 up to $470, is I think foolish. Always sell some of the rallies. Never HODL everything, except for heirlooms.



Look guys it is very simple. Bitcoin is not the fiat that everyone uses as their unit-of-account, thus fiat up, Bitcoin down just like every other speculative (hot money) asset in a liquidity crunch.

People invest in Bitcoin to make money, not to hold it as a heirloom. Thus when shorting becomes the new profit trend, the speculators chase the trend. The loaners of BTC raise their rates. Everybody is happy. Bitcoin goes down.

2008 took silver from $21 to $9. Bitcoin is more volatile than silver.

Come on guys, Bitcoin is not cash. That is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Bitcoin is a crypto gambler's addiction. Period. You guys need to get out and get some fresh air and look at yourselves more objectively.

Not using as a unit of account but using as a store of value IS holding it as a heirloom. Long shot speculation? Yes, like most everything else.

No; heirloom is defined as something that you pass from generation to next, such as collectibles and include gold coins.

Everyone is holding Bitcoin in expectation of making more money on it, not because Bitcoin is their unit-of-account. Nobody uses Bitcoin as their unit-of-account, except for as a reserve currency for crypto gambling & speculation, then they do count how many BTC they gained or lost. But no one is using it as a unit-of-account for the major expenditures of their life. No one. Not one. (and anyone who is, is tinfoil hat insane)

How do you know this?

Nobody uses gold coins as their unit-of-account for the major expenditures of their life, they hold gold to pass from generation to next or exchange for fiat when they need to buy something. Why do you think some people don't hold Bitcoin for the same reasons?

Because everyone knows they can't trust a new untested technology. Gold has a couple 1000s years of reliability under its belt.

And people don't hold gold as an heirloom because it is a unit-of-account. They do it because it feels impressive in their hand, and they feel confident it will represent a store-of-value that will outlive their offspring. No one can claim that with a straight face about BitCON.

People are holding BTC in the expectation it will be worth more and spendable on the Internet during and beyond the crisis we face. This is why Bitcoin needs to decline to $50 in order to scare some of them into selling. Once all the weakest of the strong hands have capitulated and their confidence broken, then we will be ready for a new speculative fever in BitCON again.

We need many people to hate/dismiss Bitcoin again like they did after the crash from $30, to reset the speculative opportunity again. Speculative pumps are created by people who can buy very cheap. Remember this, BitCON is not an ideology. It is a speculation. We tend to forget why people buy BitCON (because they conflate a lot of ideological tinfoil hat crap into their muddled thought process[1]).

Ditto gold.

I still think the low is not yet done. But I might be wrong.


[1] Look I used to do that too. I now realize why I lost my 18,000oz of silver was partially due to being irrational about ideological tinfoil hat type fears and thought processes. I also lost it for other unrelated reasons, but the tinfoil hat delusion shit was one of the reasons.




I think Anonymint is biased against Bitcoin due to living in the Philippines.  I can live entirely on Bitcoin in the US no problem, while attempting to do the same thing with gold would be an act of comedy.

Your rent is not priced in BTC. Please look up the definition of unit-of-account.

Gold has been banned many times in many countries, including the beacon of liberty

That doesn't stop me from handing it down to my offspring as an heirloom. Eventually it becomes legal again.

Gold can't go "poof". Bitcoin can, just by the future government control over the protocol is able to turn off your number. You'll never get it back.

That doesn't stop me from handing it down to my offspring as an heirloom. Eventually it becomes legal again.

Gold can't go "poof". Bitcoin can.

I agree, gold is less of a gamble. It still is not a unit-of-account anywhere in the world and it can be confiscated, albeit not as easily as Bitcoin.

And Bitcoin has more upside, but from $50 it has 10X more upside than from $500.

Don't pretend has suddenly become less volatile. It is only a $6 bullion mcap.
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May 14, 2016, 07:19:46 AM
 #2076

^^ $50/btc ... gee I wonder who wants to buy in cheaper? gawd do you guys ever give up? you missed the boat, deal with it.

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May 14, 2016, 07:24:24 AM
 #2077

^^ $50/btc ... gee I wonder who wants to buy in cheaper? gawd do you guys ever give up? you missed the boat, deal with it.

Are you sure?
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May 14, 2016, 07:34:57 AM
 #2078

^^ $50/btc ... gee I wonder who wants to buy in cheaper? gawd do you guys ever give up? you missed the boat, deal with it.

Are you sure?

go away you idiot.

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May 14, 2016, 09:45:12 AM
 #2079

http://beforeitsnews.com/economics-and-politics/2011/09/gold-pricing-predictions-and-cycles-martin-armstrong-1123363.html

Armstrongs gold and market predictions in 2011 september

"The long-term view in gold recognizes that the current bullish trend in NY GOLD may be forming a major high at this time on a temporary basis. However, as long as this year closes ABOVE $1405.50, then it is possible that the current bullish long-term trend will continue next year where a new intraday high could still be made."

"However, if new intraday highs are NOT sustained next year, then 2011 may produce the major high on a closing basis as well as on a cyclical basis for the near-term. Since we do not has a spike high in a Phase Transition style high, it is unlikely that this high will be a major high long-term as was the case in 1980."

"The monthly chart illustrated here shows that we have made a slight Phase Transition spike and the oscillators are at the extreme upper-end warning a correction is needed to bring gold back in line. With September 15th being precisely 3.14 months from the turning point on the Economic Confidence Model, it is curious that other countries are suddenly coming to te rescue of Greece right on the day of the model."

2011 closed $1530, we closed above his $1405

No new highs were made so 2011 was a major high but not a Phase Transition style high.

So how i interpret this (as a not native english speaking), he would still see a Phase Transition Style high after the correction, that we have seen ?
We have had a large correction and broke the down trend 2016/2/1 this is 3.14 months after 2015.75 (confidence cycle) ;-)

I don't know what he predicts now for gold, still a lower bottom ?
What confuses me is that it seems he doesn't see a Phase Transition Style high anymore like some expect (Sinclair, Sprott, Rickards ...) ?

f.e. 1974 transition spike - low - 1980 Phase Transition style high  (6 years interval)
      2011 transition spike - low - 2017 spike ?

However, i don't believe anyone can predict what is going to happen and if history is going to repeat.
But just look at the gold price in any currency, long term it has always been in an uptrend, look at prices in f.e. £, € (different chart !), indian rupies... (www.xe.com) these charts all look bullish and show a reversal. Do technicals work all the time, sorry, no. How are fundamentals for gold ? Read the papers and look around, I would say good. EU policy is a disaster ! Some politicians are really nuts !

I bought my first gold in 2009 (12% yearly up in euro's), 2.5% of my personal wealth is in physical gold / silver, i recently added some more and will be adding platinum too (historically very low). I followed gold prices every day (kitco app on pc). I will probably add up to 10% (and possible remove some of my real-estate). All my business cash is going into bullion outside EU and bank system (www.orSuisse.be). I don't trust the banks. Deutsch Bank is toast, all day tv adds and twitter adds, yesterday they made a new offering here: 5% for a 3 month savings deposit. They are desperate for cash and customers.

DB might be the trigger for the next crisis.
Alex-11
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May 14, 2016, 07:05:10 PM
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I don't know what he predicts now for gold, still a lower bottom ?

This is what he wrote in February 2016:

Quote
....here is the risk of this extending sideways and 2016 becoming the staging ground in all markets into the first quarter of 2017. I have warned, for example, in gold that 2016 could produce the lowest yearly closing and 2017 could produce the intraday low.....

Quote
We must resign ourselves to the postponement of an alignment into early 2017 with the wild times coming 2017 to 2020.

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/markets-by-sector/precious-metals/gold/2017-the-great-alignment/

So a bull market in Gold is coming, probably into 2020 or beyond.
Lower gold prices this year are still possible though.
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