2024 NBA Season

[Rosilito]

I only long for the Clippers right now I think they have the dynamic roster in the NBA.

Gotta wait for the young guys to develop specially Morrant, who got the nerves to go directly with tall guys and try to poster. I just hope that attitude won't harm him.

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I wonder what would be the scoring range of the team that plays against the bad boys pistons in 1988.. If they are so physical then probably their opponent will be having a hard time to score, probably the score would not reach 100 points per game, or maybe they'll just hit 60 or 70 points, that's the lowest already at the current state of the basketball.

The total points 1988-89 Pistons made is 8740, and the total points of the opponents they faced is 8264. The total points average per game by 1988-89 Pistons is 106.6 while the opponent is 100.8. The point gap wasn't that high so it indicates that 1988-89 NBA teams are showing strong offense as well. Since if the said team was really a great defender (I am not denying lol, it was that the opponent have a great offense as well) more or less might not be able to score an average of 3 digits per game.

Comparing it to the league right now,  I don't think that they can execute something as physically as that. Referees now are soft like when Harden goes in it would always be foul, right away lol. Kiddin' aside, the entirety of the game right now is totally different because even big guys nowadays are shooting from 3 pt line instead of having a bloody battle inside the paint.

Here's the source of stats I mentioned above: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1989.html
(Please correct me, if I misinterpret the whole thing)

[Reid]

~snipped

I would prefer 2004 pistons over any team in the league history because I love defense, however there should be a limit between hard defense and actually wanting to injure players, intention is where it is and if your intention is to play hard defense but you end up hurting someone mistakenly that's fine, you didn't want that to happen and it is basketball sometimes players gets injured, however if you really WANTED to injure a player, that is disgusting and that is why I love 2004 pistons but I hate 1988 Pistons, BIG HUGE difference.

Big is enough, or just huge. Pick one.

Look, they are not perfect too. Why? Have you seen the royal rumble from Pacers and Pistons? Same players in that team.
They also have intention of hurting people. So, both just did something wrong.
If they are facing a player in the name of Ron Artest (MetaWorldPeace) they are suddenly aggravated.
Same goes with the 1980's Pistons if they are against players which have the same behavior.

Comparing it to the league right now,  I don't think that they can execute something as physically as that. Referees now are soft like when Harden goes in it would always be foul, right away lol. Kiddin' aside, the entirety of the game right now is totally different because even big guys nowadays are shooting from 3 pt line instead of having a bloody battle inside the paint.

Here's the source of stats I mentioned above: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/1989.html
(Please correct me, if I misinterpret the whole thing)

You are correct. Those are the stats before.
A lot of change had happened and that is why we are seeing score at 120-130 now.
i.e. hand check

[bisdak40]

~snipped

I would prefer 2004 pistons over any team in the league history because I love defense, however there should be a limit between hard defense and actually wanting to injure players, intention is where it is and if your intention is to play hard defense but you end up hurting someone mistakenly that's fine, you didn't want that to happen and it is basketball sometimes players gets injured, however if you really WANTED to injure a player, that is disgusting and that is why I love 2004 pistons but I hate 1988 Pistons, BIG HUGE difference.

Big is enough, or just huge. Pick one.

Look, they are not perfect too. Why? Have you seen the royal rumble from Pacers and Pistons? Same players in that team.
They also have intention of hurting people. So, both just did something wrong.
If they are facing a player in the name of Ron Artest (MetaWorldPeace) they are suddenly aggravated.
Same goes with the 1980's Pistons if they are against players which have the same behavior.

I could not imagine how Draymond Green would fare if he is on the time where the Bad Boys Pistons reign. IMO, he also have that mentality of Bill Laimbeer, it is just he is being pulled by the new rules of the NBA. Green does tough defense thus sometimes he unintentionally hurt some of them but if that is on the 1988-89 season, it would be just a regular foul not a flagrant one. Rules in the NBA now are making players somehow soft but that is also for the longevity of their basketball career.

[TravelMug]

~snipped

I would prefer 2004 pistons over any team in the league history because I love defense, however there should be a limit between hard defense and actually wanting to injure players, intention is where it is and if your intention is to play hard defense but you end up hurting someone mistakenly that's fine, you didn't want that to happen and it is basketball sometimes players gets injured, however if you really WANTED to injure a player, that is disgusting and that is why I love 2004 pistons but I hate 1988 Pistons, BIG HUGE difference.

Big is enough, or just huge. Pick one.

Look, they are not perfect too. Why? Have you seen the royal rumble from Pacers and Pistons? Same players in that team.
They also have intention of hurting people. So, both just did something wrong.
If they are facing a player in the name of Ron Artest (MetaWorldPeace) they are suddenly aggravated.
Same goes with the 1980's Pistons if they are against players which have the same behavior.

I could not imagine how Draymond Green would fare if he is on the time where the Bad Boys Pistons reign. IMO, he also have that mentality of Bill Laimbeer, it is just he is being pulled by the new rules of the NBA. Green does tough defense thus sometimes he unintentionally hurt some of them but if that is on the 1988-89 season, it would be just a regular foul not a flagrant one. Rules in the NBA now are making players somehow soft but that is also for the longevity of their basketball career.

Not just Bill Laimbeer, but then there was a lot of tough inside player and Center so it is really hard to see how Draymond's mentality and physically will go against those kind of players back then. Detroit are really intimidating that time, but it doesn't mean that teams are afraid of the Pistons. But yeah, since the rules has change a lot, players becoming "soft". You can still play defense though, but not at rugged as the 80's and a simply bump here and there are now called a foul.

[Reid]

~snipped

I would prefer 2004 pistons over any team in the league history because I love defense, however there should be a limit between hard defense and actually wanting to injure players, intention is where it is and if your intention is to play hard defense but you end up hurting someone mistakenly that's fine, you didn't want that to happen and it is basketball sometimes players gets injured, however if you really WANTED to injure a player, that is disgusting and that is why I love 2004 pistons but I hate 1988 Pistons, BIG HUGE difference.

Big is enough, or just huge. Pick one.

Look, they are not perfect too. Why? Have you seen the royal rumble from Pacers and Pistons? Same players in that team.
They also have intention of hurting people. So, both just did something wrong.
If they are facing a player in the name of Ron Artest (MetaWorldPeace) they are suddenly aggravated.
Same goes with the 1980's Pistons if they are against players which have the same behavior.

I could not imagine how Draymond Green would fare if he is on the time where the Bad Boys Pistons reign. IMO, he also have that mentality of Bill Laimbeer, it is just he is being pulled by the new rules of the NBA. Green does tough defense thus sometimes he unintentionally hurt some of them but if that is on the 1988-89 season, it would be just a regular foul not a flagrant one. Rules in the NBA now are making players somehow soft but that is also for the longevity of their basketball career.

Yeah, its to keep them safe but it went to the skies for being dramatic.
Harden being hit in his beard is foul?
Harden trying to stop Green to inbound the ball as fast as he could, Green pushed him  and ref called a foul or tech.
Why? It should be Harden which should be called for delaying the game.

The media has some contributions here trying to make some players look bad.
Even the 80's Pistons looks so bad now even if some of them are done in the book.
Let us remember, basketball is a physical game.

[TheGreatPython]

There must be a level between Bill Laimbeer going up to hit someone in the head and acting like he did that to block the ball but just missed and hit the other player in the head, and James Harden getting a foul for basically breathing. It is not a neither nor level of deal, there is a big space between those two.

I know 2004 pistons had a situation with Pacers and that was bad, hell they even climbed the stands and attacked a player so they were definitely not nice, but that is literally the maximum limit I am saying that should be allowed, not the ideal situation where every team should be like that. If you want to talk about historically best defensive team, that is the maximum I can give you, Bad Boys would not be a defensive team in my mind, it would be just criminals disguised as basketball players.

[ChiBitCTy]

I really hope Lebron James is right when saying today he hasn't heard from any of his people on cancelling the season stating "Saw some reports about execs and agents wanting to cancel the season???  That's absolutely not true.  Nobody I know saying anything like that.  As soon as it's safe we would like to finish our season.  I'm ready and our team is ready.  Nobody should be cancelling anything". 

I hope they do something like come back for two weeks and get ready for the playoffs.  There's nothing really left to play for losing teams, and dear god we sure as hell need some sports action back in our lives.  At least I know that I sure do. Bring the NBA back, just safely!

[Captain Corporate]

 While we are talking about the tough defense parts of the deal, could we really focus on the three pointer making a bit of the change itself as well. I agree, just go on youtube and check fouls harden got and there are some super silly ones, I agree that offense is a lot more highlighted and a lot less defense is allowed day in and day out. However think about it, people are shooting a lot more threes nowadays, some players avarage more threes per game than entire teams back in the day. Which tells me, even if we had bad boys level of hardcore lets break his foot level of defense today, how would that work? I mean they mostly did that hardcore defense when players jumped to the rim, what do you do when someone decides to shoot a three? Put your feet under him maybe but thats about it.

[Reid]

While we are talking about the tough defense parts of the deal, could we really focus on the three pointer making a bit of the change itself as well. I agree, just go on youtube and check fouls harden got and there are some super silly ones, I agree that offense is a lot more highlighted and a lot less defense is allowed day in and day out. However think about it, people are shooting a lot more threes nowadays, some players avarage more threes per game than entire teams back in the day. Which tells me, even if we had bad boys level of hardcore lets break his foot level of defense today, how would that work? I mean they mostly did that hardcore defense when players jumped to the rim, what do you do when someone decides to shoot a three? Put your feet under him maybe but thats about it.

There's a lot of way to do that than just leaving a foot on the landing area.
Some of the known players who can defend perimeter/3 point shooters.
1. Shane Battier - Houston Rockets
He is known for successfully guarding Kobe for so many times.
But we all know that is Kobe so he can still shoot the ball even with a hand on his face.
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/nba-insider-tom-haberstroh/habershow-shane-battier-discusses-trying-guard-kobe-bryant

Battier’s signature move was using his hand to try to block Bryant’s vision rather than contest the shot.

2. Trevor Ariza - Lakers 2008-2009 (NBA Champions)
He is the wing man of Kobe. Kobe as the offense and Ariza as the defense.
With his long arms he could average 3 steals per game which is a lot. A good outside defender for small guards.
His best was 5 steals in a game. Wow!

3. Bruce Bowen - San Antonio Spurs
I think there is no need for an explanation here.

4. Manu Ginobli - San Antonio Spurs
Another good defender for outside shooters.
One of his popular highlights is  for winning a game blocking the shot of James Harden.

5. Andre Iguodala - GSW
Being a veteran had a lot of perks.  

6. Patrick Beverley - LAC
This guy could make your on-night be an off-night by attacking you mentally.
One example is forcing Durant to be kicked out in expense for him being kicked out too. That is a win for him.

Even with the hand check rule, there is a way to make good defense. Just need some hard work.

[Rosilito]

Put your feet under him maybe but thats about it.

Best example for this is none other than Zaza Pachulia. If you haven't seen the intentional dirty work he did with Kawhi well, he just put his put his feet under Kawhi (shooting three) before landing in, that obstruction lead to ankle injury, it was playoffs Game 1, if I remember it right.

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6. Patrick Beverley - LAC
This guy could make your on-night be an off-night by attacking you mentally.
One example is forcing Durant to be kicked out in expense for him being kicked out too. That is a win for him.

Pat is really a thing when it comes to defense with this current league. He's already scary with his height, and imagine what he can do if he is given a height of Rudy Gobert. That little man going inside your head were always a big problem that it can destroy you the entire game. This was the problem of Westbrook all the time he got to face Pat. More than that mental defense stuff, he is dedicated to defense more than to score. He never got tired of chasing big, small guys who pose a threat to his team.

One more thing who can defend well some 3 point shooters is Fred VanVleet. I just see some statistics stuff in net on who successfully defend Curry, and I found out that out 74 games Fred defends Curry he hold it to having just 10.8 points, how tough. I based on Curry since he's known to get buckets more in downtown and in perimeter line. And he also average 27.3 points per game back in 2019 (since the info I found was made back in 2019).

Anyway here's the source: https://www.bardown.com/the-most-successful-steph-curry-defender-this-year-is-surprisingly-fred-vanvleet-1.1315297

[Oasisman]

I really hope Lebron James is right when saying today he hasn't heard from any of his people on cancelling the season stating "Saw some reports about execs and agents wanting to cancel the season???  That's absolutely not true.  Nobody I know saying anything like that.  As soon as it's safe we would like to finish our season.  I'm ready and our team is ready.  Nobody should be cancelling anything". 

I hope they do something like come back for two weeks and get ready for the playoffs.  There's nothing really left to play for losing teams, and dear god we sure as hell need some sports action back in our lives.  At least I know that I sure do. Bring the NBA back, just safely!

The only safest way if the NBA wants to come back this early, is to avoid spectators. Just the players, coaching staff, camera men, and other essential members of the organization, and make sure these people are socially isolated. To be honest, social gathering and contact sports aren't really safe unless there are already available vaccines for the virus. I know how pathetic life would be without the sports entertainment, but It's also gonna be a waste of life If they mishandled this certain situation just to cope up with the huge profit loss from the business.

[Reid]

One more thing who can defend well some 3 point shooters is Fred VanVleet. I just see some statistics stuff in net on who successfully defend Curry, and I found out that out 74 games Fred defends Curry he hold it to having just 10.8 points, how tough. I based on Curry since he's known to get buckets more in downtown and in perimeter line. And he also average 27.3 points per game back in 2019 (since the info I found was made back in 2019).

Anyway here's the source: https://www.bardown.com/the-most-successful-steph-curry-defender-this-year-is-surprisingly-fred-vanvleet-1.1315297

Whoa! I never thought about that.
But yeah, Fred is a hard worker.
Maybe it is because Lowry is being given more minutes which is why Fred is not being seen more.

Forgot to add Seth Curry.
That kid is really something else when it comes to defending stars at the guard position.
I still remember how he defended his brother earning 3 steals from him at the Western Conference Finals.

[stadus]

I still remember how he defended his brother earning 3 steals from him at the Western Conference Finals.

He knows his brother very well, so I'm not surprise about it, Seth Curry now has improve, especially with the Dallas Mavericks, I can see his brother to be one of the stars soon if he is only give a chance to earn big minutes. Curry can easily be stopped if you'll double him, even one on one and that's the reason why he has the splash brothers to help him, if you notice, if Curry struggles, he had Klay to score for him.

[Reid]

I still remember how he defended his brother earning 3 steals from him at the Western Conference Finals.

He knows his brother very well, so I'm not surprise about it, Seth Curry now has improve, especially with the Dallas Mavericks, I can see his brother to be one of the stars soon if he is only give a chance to earn big minutes. Curry can easily be stopped if you'll double him, even one on one and that's the reason why he has the splash brothers to help him, if you notice, if Curry struggles, he had Klay to score for him.

Yeah, that's true.

It's all in their blood.
Seth might not be that explosive as Steph but he did have some time in Dallas where he is on the spotlight.
He is just 29 and he may be in his prime now.
As long as he plays more, he will get all the experience that he could get and maybe someday as a champion too.
He is in good hands now with Dallas. If I am Mark Cuban I would keep this guy just like Doncic.

[Captain Corporate]

 You guys are talking about "good defenders", I wasn't talking about good defenders, I was talking about hardcore defense that aims at hurting other people. It is shocking that you talked about defenders and even gave Iggy as an example yet never mentioned Kawhi, dude is a prime example of someone who can lock players on perimeter as well, he is literally the best defender in the league right now at his position if you ask me. However that still doesn't change a thing.

 Bad Boys were known as the team who hurt other players, intentionally, trying to injure them. How did they do it? Well on their era players went inside a lot, from centers to guards everyone went to the rim, so when the scorer jumped, they jumped on him and thats how they were defending so "hard" (basically being a shitty person). None of the players you listed does that. There is no method you can hurt someone when they are shooting a three except putting your foot under that shooter. I agree with Zaza situation, that was literally the first thing I can remember but even with that a player can do that only so many times before getting blacklisted from the league, look at what happened to Zaza, dude basically is hated by every single team on NBA nowadays because of it.

[justdimin]

The reason why Vegas mayor is trying to open the city back is mainly NBA I am afraid.
Adam Silver talked about Vegas as the best spot because they are quite there with the hotel and entertainment part of the world.

Summer leagues usually happen there as well isn't it? So, all they would need to do is find those gym's, get to those hotels, and basically stock up on every single thing they might need from as simple as food/basketball/shoes type of deal to even emergency stuff like medicine and such. If you get everything there, and you cut all ties with the world, I am pretty sure you can finish the league in under a month, 2 months tops.

I know it would be quite the fast pace, but there is only 20 games left, if you want you can even cut down on that number, and you can make playoffs quicker as well with 3 game series for first round, 5 game series on second round and 7 game series on conference finals and regular finals.

[Reid]

 You guys are talking about "good defenders", I wasn't talking about good defenders, I was talking about hardcore defense that aims at hurting other people. It is shocking that you talked about defenders and even gave Iggy as an example yet never mentioned Kawhi, dude is a prime example of someone who can lock players on perimeter as well, he is literally the best defender in the league right now at his position if you ask me. However that still doesn't change a thing.

Well then, I am sorry for forgetting that. Yes, Kawhi is one of the top defenders and then there is also PG13.
Can you forgive me for being forgetful? Besides, I cannot list them all in one swoop.  

Bad Boys were known as the team who hurt other players, intentionally, trying to injure them. How did they do it? Well on their era players went inside a lot, from centers to guards everyone went to the rim, so when the scorer jumped, they jumped on him and thats how they were defending so "hard" (basically being a shitty person).

Let's forget about Zaza, that is an obvious wrong thing to do in this era. It is more highlighted because of the new rules of NBA.
Before, you cannot highlight everything. Why? Because you can touch anyone even if they are still on the three point line.
How is trying to block someone a shitty move?
We are just going in circles here. As I told you, basketball is a physical game. You have to be ready to be shut down under that rim.
If you want to be always free to shoot then play alone.
It just looks so bad because they are branded as "Bad Boys" but that is not the focus of it. It's defense.
Media just exaggerated everything.
Imagine this, if they could just injure anyone on that floor then Bulls won't even make a championship.

[Japinat]

I still remember how he defended his brother earning 3 steals from him at the Western Conference Finals.

He knows his brother very well, so I'm not surprise about it, Seth Curry now has improve, especially with the Dallas Mavericks, I can see his brother to be one of the stars soon if he is only give a chance to earn big minutes. Curry can easily be stopped if you'll double him, even one on one and that's the reason why he has the splash brothers to help him, if you notice, if Curry struggles, he had Klay to score for him.

Yeah, that's true.

It's all in their blood.
Seth might not be that explosive as Steph but he did have some time in Dallas where he is on the spotlight.
He is just 29 and he may be in his prime now.
As long as he plays more, he will get all the experience that he could get and maybe someday as a champion too.
He is in good hands now with Dallas. If I am Mark Cuban I would keep this guy just like Doncic.

I agree with you on that, I think he needs to be a starter now, unfortunately, it was Doncic who is handling that ball so what's going to be his position.
Unlike Steph, he is the ball handler so he can generate his own shot, maybe if Dallas will think of changing Doncic role and give it to Curry, that's the time Curry could be more valuable, but not sure if they like to work that way.

[Golftech]

 You guys are talking about "good defenders", I wasn't talking about good defenders, I was talking about hardcore defense that aims at hurting other people. It is shocking that you talked about defenders and even gave Iggy as an example yet never mentioned Kawhi, dude is a prime example of someone who can lock players on perimeter as well, he is literally the best defender in the league right now at his position if you ask me. However that still doesn't change a thing.

 Bad Boys were known as the team who hurt other players, intentionally, trying to injure them. How did they do it? Well on their era players went inside a lot, from centers to guards everyone went to the rim, so when the scorer jumped, they jumped on him and thats how they were defending so "hard" (basically being a shitty person). None of the players you listed does that. There is no method you can hurt someone when they are shooting a three except putting your foot under that shooter. I agree with Zaza situation, that was literally the first thing I can remember but even with that a player can do that only so many times before getting blacklisted from the league, look at what happened to Zaza, dude basically is hated by every single team on NBA nowadays because of it.

Kawhai indeed have that skills, defending players from his position and really make it difficult to get the shot, he's sticky style of playing defense.

Agree to that Zaza thing, back then badboys do a lots of alike they can hurt you whoever you are, they are not going to give you points without feeling the pain, easy basket is not existing when you are playing against the badboys, this team was developed with common goals, they are good with how they execute the defensive stop.

[Reid]

I agree with you on that, I think he needs to be a starter now, unfortunately, it was Doncic who is handling that ball so what's going to be his position.
Unlike Steph, he is the ball handler so he can generate his own shot, maybe if Dallas will think of changing Doncic role and give it to Curry, that's the time Curry could be more valuable, but not sure if they like to work that way.

Yeah, although I think it will not be a problem with Doncic.
He is a all around guy and unselfish.
His stats says it all. Triple doubles or mostly double double with assists as his second stat.
He could be the point and Seth will be the off guard.
Seth could shoot three's so most likely he will be running looking for an opening or creating one for Doncic.

The defensive part of him is what needed the most. They could come back easily if he did it perfectly.