[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[cor]

If you happen to be a fellow Slush Pool miner, there's a unique discount waiting for you.   

[dnaleor]

can you please look into my question about a bulk oder? I'm waiting for more than a week now.

[Erdogan]

I'm going to buy 2 trezors, (1 for recovering the seed if something bad happens)

My question is... what's the difference between using Armory with a cold wallet (my current setup) and using Trezor? They look very similar to me. Someone mentioned earlier the difference between a cold wallet and an offline wallet, but I didn't understand it very well.

Finally, which option would you recommend better? If any? Maybe both options are equally safe...

I appreciate it

The two systems are much the same security wise, but the trezor is much easier, much easier to keep secure. It is not possible to extract the seed from the Trezor, but on the Armory offline machine, you are vulnerable when you are using the keys, at least in theory. You must keep the offline machine encrypted while you are not holding it or looking at it, and you must be sure that it is not tampered with so the keys (when you use them) are not written to some secret place on the disk.

Both uses hd wallet, on the Trezor you can have multiple wallets with different passphrases.

Unless you already have a separate machine for offline, the Trezor is cheaper.

You don't need to have the full blockchain (as you have to, on the online part of the Armory system).

I used Armory before I got my Trezor, and I am extremely happy with it.

[kkurtmann]

If you happen to be a fellow Slush Pool miner, there's a unique discount waiting for you.   

 Now you tell me! After I already bought 3 for full price. Been on Slush pool over 3 years

[AussieHash]

If you happen to be a fellow Slush Pool miner, there's a unique discount waiting for you.   

https://www.buytrezor.com/slushpool/

Mine with Slush Pool Beta for at least 3 days and 30+ Ghash/s power.
You can apply your 33% discount by using your personal Slush Pool API token:
Copy your API token at beta.mining.bitcoin.cz > My Account > Settings > Manage API tokens
Paste it into the Promo code field at buytrezor.com Shopping Cart:
You can only use the discount once, but you can get 10 TREZOR devices in one shopping.
Don't hesitate, because we may change these rules at anytime.

[binford]

If you happen to be a fellow Slush Pool miner, there's a unique discount waiting for you.   

http://satoshilabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/SlushPool_Trezor.png

 Now you tell me! After I already bought 3 for full price. Been on Slush pool over 3 years

you and me, we both ...

To prove your pdf existed, I would go a similar route as you took: I would hash the doc, convert the private key to an address and verify that the address has received money in the past. ...
Please note: you should move the money from that address. Anyone with the document can access it.

Excellent! Thanks.

you should not move all money from that address as the bitcoin paper describes pruning of transactions from blockchain for empty addresses. if you need your proof to be preserved longterm this is a risk to be aware of

This is a valid concern and I've thought about that: I think it's save to remove the money. There will most likely always be a complete transaction history available and it's good practice to keep the unspent transaction output set as clean (small) as possible because it has to be accessed quickly by servers/wallets.

Also: you'll have to keep the document itself anyways. So why not keep the block with the relevant tx in it along with it?

EDIT: another minor point: If you're concerned of losing the ability to prove existence due to the money being removed from the address, you would also have to keep your document secret to avoid someone else removing the money.

EDIT2: sorry for all the offtopic babble.

+1 apology for being off (trezor) topic here
I appreciate your thoughts and nod, nod and agree. you solved the pruning risk elegantly (keeping a copy of the block which contains my proof of existence tx), argument about keeping the document so why not bundle it with support data, it all makes perfect sense and I will adopt it in my argumentation as viable options of doing things.

as for keeping the document secret, that is ok 'cause my use case is about testaments and using rather higher fee but satoshi tokens for the stamping. now it can be reversed, using old coins, zero fees and spending them afterwards as usual.

how trezor fits here nicely is to sign message that describes the signing/timestamping with an address that would be used to actually timestamp a document. so that it all can be verfied in one eintopf of documents and signatures that are loosely related but can reveal much more info if the right off-blockchain data is added to it and is examined.

sorry for my rambling. i'm just very excited atm, been working on and off on probative value of electronic documents for a couple of years now and you just stimulated an are of my brain in an unexpected way

[Perlover]

I see now the seriously bug
I already reported to team of Trezor
The site MyTrezor.com generates same receive addresses for accounts.
I don't know - it's only my bug or not but i see it in two accounts.
After getting coins to new address i see new address as previously generated address as receive address.
It happens after Path: m/44'/0'/1'/0/74 for example.
May be affected all wallets.

[stick]

I see now the seriously bug

Have you reported it alredy to TREZOR support? If not, please do.

[cor]

can you please look into my question about a bulk oder? I'm waiting for more than a week now.

Are you referring to a question posted here or to our support? Please let me know via private message which email address you used in case you've contacted us via support. I'll have a look. 

[blossbloss]

I appreciate your thoughts and nod, nod and agree. you solved the pruning risk elegantly (keeping a copy of the block which contains my proof of existence tx), argument about keeping the document so why not bundle it with support data, it all makes perfect sense and I will adopt it in my argumentation as viable options of doing things.

as for keeping the document secret, that is ok 'cause my use case is about testaments and using rather higher fee but satoshi tokens for the stamping. now it can be reversed, using old coins, zero fees and spending them afterwards as usual.

how trezor fits here nicely is to sign message that describes the signing/timestamping with an address that would be used to actually timestamp a document. so that it all can be verfied in one eintopf of documents and signatures that are loosely related but can reveal much more info if the right off-blockchain data is added to it and is examined.

I'm sorry, but I am not following/understanding your comments. I'm very intrigued to understand how you are integrating Trezor for signing and proving a document existence.  Can you walk through a specific example (step by step) for my beginner mind?

Thanks!

[Dabs]

Mr. Slush, Mr. Stick, and Satoshi Labs. I'm interested in a discount for bulk quantities. Sort of like a Group Buy. Actually, it is for a potential Group Buy. I'd only want a few personally, but I can see hundreds of others wanting their own.

[AussieHash]

Mr. Slush, Mr. Stick, and Satoshi Labs. I'm interested in a discount for bulk quantities. Sort of like a Group Buy. Actually, it is for a potential Group Buy. I'd only want a few personally, but I can see hundreds of others wanting their own.

The problem is most tin-foil hatters would want their Trezor shipped directly to them from Satoshilabs. For those wanting a group buy discount, 3 days mining on slush's beta qualifies for 33.6% off.

[Dabs]

Mr. Slush, Mr. Stick, and Satoshi Labs. I'm interested in a discount for bulk quantities. Sort of like a Group Buy. Actually, it is for a potential Group Buy. I'd only want a few personally, but I can see hundreds of others wanting their own.

The problem is most tin-foil hatters would want their Trezor shipped directly to them from Satoshilabs. For those wanting a group buy discount, 3 days mining on slush's beta qualifies for 33.6% off.

If my "Group Buy" is officially endorsed by the manufacturer, then it can be arranged that the units will ship directly to the end buyers. I am of course, looking for a price point better than $79.

[stick]

Mr. Slush, Mr. Stick, and Satoshi Labs. I'm interested in a discount for bulk quantities. Sort of like a Group Buy. Actually, it is for a potential Group Buy. I'd only want a few personally, but I can see hundreds of others wanting their own.

Please contact sales@satoshilabs.com. Thanks!

[binford]

I'm sorry, but I am not following/understanding your comments. I'm very intrigued to understand how you are integrating Trezor for signing and proving a document existence.  Can you walk through a specific example (step by step) for my beginner mind?

Thanks!

rambling on:

imagine two documents, one is description of what you are about to prove. this will be signed by trezor and will have no footprint in the blockchain. but i consider it a nice to have, since it explains to someone not familiar with "proof of existence" how the second document is special. there is no other integration of trezor. the examiner can just read a howto prove a document existence and verify it's signed with a key corresponding to an address which balance would be used for the actual proof.  

i think you got it right. trezor does not help here. i just find it neat to sign digital things and verifying the signature. the proof of existence can not be done this way.

[TwinWinNerD]

I nearly forgot:

PSA: Don't trust the little band on the trezor and the little hook, that holds the band. IT WILL TEAR and then you can potentially lose your trezor. I had my trezor on my keyband and first the connection from the black band to the metal tear, and then a week later the little hook, where the band is connected to the trezor broke off completely.

Now I have no idea how to keep the trezor with me all the time

[Anon136]

Now I have no idea how to keep the trezor with me all the time

That little plastic bit where the cord wraps around seems pretty sturdy. Im sure you can think of something to interface with that.

[TwinWinNerD]

Now I have no idea how to keep the trezor with me all the time

That little plastic bit where the cord wraps around seems pretty sturdy. Im sure you can think of something to interface with that.

That is the liitle hook that I was talking about earlier. That thing broke too. Now I can't attach anything to my trezor anymore

I could post a pic when I come home.

[Perlover]

I see now the seriously bug

Have you reported it alredy to TREZOR support? If not, please do.

Next line in quoted by you message tells that i reported

[molecular]

Now I have no idea how to keep the trezor with me all the time

That little plastic bit where the cord wraps around seems pretty sturdy. Im sure you can think of something to interface with that.

a zip tie?