[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[molecular]

mytrezor.com wallet sends xpub to server to retrieve transaction history. However Chrome extension does the device management without revealing any information to our servers. It is completely standalone application, so it does not even reveal your IP to us.

and just to be clear i understand the terms, xpub means "master public key", correct?

thanks for clarifying.

The master public key for the account, not the entire tree of accounts.

I think the terminology used in BIP 32 was:

• xpub means extended public key, and generates all public keys for a single private key (i.e. single Trezor account)
• a master public key generates all xpubs for a single seed

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[/list]

I don't know how closely everyone follows the same terminology, but you'd think it would be pretty faithful seeing as slush and I think also stick talk on the developers mailing list about this wallet related stuff.

that's even more confusing.

i thought the xpub is a single root master public key (derived from a single root master private key) from which all child public keys are derived.  this same root master public key (xpub) can parent many different branches of child public keys.

what carlton said was indeed confusing (there's only one address for each private key, for example).

You can derive an xpub for any node in the tree. Can be root node or account level node or even further down.

[Erdogan]

I wonder: (With a little thinking the obvious answers come, but please comment if it is wrong).

If the Trezor in its current incarnation does not send the XPUB key(s) to the MyTrezor server, how can it know how many keys are necessary to send? For example, in the change fork in each account, a new address is used (mostly) each time a payment is made. Let's say I have made 150 payments, and the first 149 change addresses are 0. How would the server know it should ask for the 150th?

EDIT: It could check for each address that it has been used and abandoned spent, so the UTXO is not enough, it needs the whole blockchain.

EDIT2: And after the spent addresses, it can ask for a number of unused addresses, just in case the user has skipped some.

EDIT3: And if the server had the XPUB, it would have to compute the addresses on the server side.

[molecular]

I wonder: (With a little thinking the obvious answers come, but please comment if it is wrong).

If the Trezor in its current incarnation does not send the XPUB key(s) to the MyTrezor server,

it does, though (well, not the trezor, but the js wallet):

mytrezor.com wallet sends xpub to server to retrieve transaction history.

[Erdogan]

I wonder: (With a little thinking the obvious answers come, but please comment if it is wrong).

If the Trezor in its current incarnation does not send the XPUB key(s) to the MyTrezor server,

it does, though (well, not the trezor, but the js wallet):

mytrezor.com wallet sends xpub to server to retrieve transaction history.

I thought they changed it.

[chrisrico]

I thought they changed it.

They extended the Chrome app so that you can configure the Trezor without sending any data to Satoshi Labs (or anyone). However, myTREZOR (or the wallet of your choice) still needs to know which addresses have been used in order to determine your balance and history.

[Erdogan]

I thought they changed it.

They extended the Chrome app so that you can configure the Trezor without sending any data to Satoshi Labs (or anyone). However, myTREZOR (or the wallet of your choice) still needs to know which addresses have been used in order to determine your balance and history.

Yes but there is a choice - the Trezor finds the addresses on demand and send to server via the web-page, or the webpage, knowing the XPUB, sends the addresses to the server, or the server gets the XPUB. Three possibilities. I looked over the bitcointrezor.com site in hope of finding the answer, but I didn't. So you are probably right, the XPUB is sent from the Trezor all the way to the server.

[chrisrico]

Yes but there is a choice - the Trezor finds the addresses on demand and send to server via the web-page, or the webpage, knowing the XPUB, sends the addresses to the server, or the server gets the XPUB. Three possibilities. I looked over the bitcointrezor.com site in hope of finding the answer, but I didn't. So you are probably right, the XPUB is sent from the Trezor all the way to the server.

It's not #1, the Trezor doesn't know which outputs it owns, or which addresses are used.

Pretty sure it's #3, it makes the most sense. Otherwise the JS client would either have to send the server a large number of addresses at once, or check them a few at a time. Looking at the source code here, it seems to support this.

[MrDjAK]

Update for trezor on android is released or not?

[molecular]

Update for trezor on android is released or not?

Are you aware mycelium has trezor support now?

[cypherdoc]

been playing around with the Linux Chrome extension.

i thought we were supposed to be able to construct and send tx's thru it alone w/o going to mytrezor.com?  i couldn't figure out any other way to do this than to go to mytrezor.com.

anyone else play with it?

is there any way to get the xpub off the Trezor and onto Mycelium by using the extension?

[BitcoinIsLiberty]

been playing around with the Linux Chrome extension.

i thought we were supposed to be able to construct and send tx's thru it alone w/o going to mytrezor.com?  i couldn't figure out any other way to do this than to go to mytrezor.com.

anyone else play with it?

is there any way to get the xpub off the Trezor and onto Mycelium by using the extension?

You configure it with the extension and when you use Mycelium just plug it in and select the accounts tab and add another account and select the hardware wallet option. (I don't think it shows the xpub but it does show qr codes for your addresses just like another other HD account)

[cypherdoc]

been playing around with the Linux Chrome extension.

i thought we were supposed to be able to construct and send tx's thru it alone w/o going to mytrezor.com?  i couldn't figure out any other way to do this than to go to mytrezor.com.

anyone else play with it?

is there any way to get the xpub off the Trezor and onto Mycelium by using the extension?

You configure it with the extension and when you use Mycelium just plug it in and select the accounts tab and add another account and select the hardware wallet option. (I don't think it shows the xpub but it does show qr codes for your addresses just like another other HD account)

so in other words, the extension is just for configuration purposes only?  it also forced me to go to myTrezor.com to add a password.  is that normal?

[BitcoinIsLiberty]

been playing around with the Linux Chrome extension.

i thought we were supposed to be able to construct and send tx's thru it alone w/o going to mytrezor.com?  i couldn't figure out any other way to do this than to go to mytrezor.com.

anyone else play with it?

is there any way to get the xpub off the Trezor and onto Mycelium by using the extension?

You configure it with the extension and when you use Mycelium just plug it in and select the accounts tab and add another account and select the hardware wallet option. (I don't think it shows the xpub but it does show qr codes for your addresses just like another other HD account)

so in other words, the extension is just for configuration purposes only?  it also forced me to go to myTrezor.com to add a password.  is that normal?

I know the extension was made in a way that configuration can occur without mytrezor.com (In fact you can do it all while your computer is offline if you were so inclined) but the extension is also used for mytrezor.com wallet features for those who want it. I don't remember the password part but that is easily spoofed with just entering a simple fake password. (Just don't use the addresses that it generates of course). For computer usage I use Electrum and Mycelium on phone. Both can share the same trezor.

[keithers]

is the trezor back end down right now?   I just tried to pull up my wallet, but it keeps circling...

Is there a website or feed that displays when trezor is down?   That would be nice...  or a red light and a green light

[rammy2k2]

is the trezor back end down right now?   I just tried to pull up my wallet, but it keeps circling...

Is there a website or feed that displays when trezor is down?   That would be nice...  or a red light and a green light

Actually the red light and a green light is not a bad idea 

[GenTarkin]

Hey all, I just got a trezor and have a question.

Initially set it up w/ only PIN protection. If I enable password protection and leave some funds in the 'non password protected' accounts as well as the newly created 'password protected account'....

How does the recovery process work in this case? When doing the seed recovery process would I check the box 'password encrypted'(or w/e it is) ... if so would this restore both my 'non password protected' & 'password protected' accounts?(even tho the 'non password protected' accounts have no password?)

[molecular]

Hey all, I just got a trezor and have a question.

Initially set it up w/ only PIN protection. If I enable password protection and leave some funds in the 'non password protected' accounts as well as the newly created 'password protected account'....

How does the recovery process work in this case? When doing the seed recovery process would I check the box 'password encrypted'(or w/e it is) ... if so would this restore both my 'non password protected' & 'password protected' accounts?(even tho the 'non password protected' accounts have no password?)

You should be able to use both "wallets" in parallel (or rather alternatingly) without using the restore process in between. Depending on which pw you use (empty or "something"), a different wallet is loaded. I don't know exactly how it works with myTrezor (I use electrum), but entering a different password (or no password) should do the trick.

Maybe someone who is doing this with myTrezor could chip in?

[randomguy7]

Hey all, I just got a trezor and have a question.

Initially set it up w/ only PIN protection. If I enable password protection and leave some funds in the 'non password protected' accounts as well as the newly created 'password protected account'....

How does the recovery process work in this case? When doing the seed recovery process would I check the box 'password encrypted'(or w/e it is) ... if so would this restore both my 'non password protected' & 'password protected' accounts?(even tho the 'non password protected' accounts have no password?)

You should be able to use both "wallets" in parallel (or rather alternatingly) without using the restore process in between. Depending on which pw you use (empty or "something"), a different wallet is loaded. I don't know exactly how it works with myTrezor (I use electrum), but entering a different password (or no password) should do the trick.

Maybe someone who is doing this with myTrezor could chip in?

It doesn't matter if you set 'password encrypted' during recovery, you can change it later after recovery to access your password protected funds. The password function disabled technically is like entering an empty password so you can only access those funds while you have the feature disabled. Enable the feature and your other funds get accessible with the correct password.

tl-dr: yes it works, it will restore both (all) accounts.

[RustyNomad]

While you guys are on this topic....

I plan on buying a Trezor in the next 2 or 3 weeks and was planning on buying 3 but it seems like this is not needed seeing as you can have more than one account on a Trezor.

Is my understanding correct in that you can have say a sort of 'hot' wallet or rather everyday use wallet (with no password) and then say two further wallets each with their own password. If one starts up the Trezor you then only need to enter the relevant password for the wallet you are trying to access?

If the above is correct, is there a limit on the number of wallets you can have on a single Trezor?

[randomguy7]

Is my understanding correct in that you can have say a sort of 'hot' wallet or rather everyday use wallet (with no password) and then say two further wallets each with their own password. If one starts up the Trezor you then only need to enter the relevant password for the wallet you are trying to access?

yes

If the above is correct, is there a limit on the number of wallets you can have on a single Trezor?

no (not practically at least, it's limited by the maximum amount of possible passwords)