[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[bitcoinuserz]

(Note: looks like whitepaper needs to be updated, "0.1 LISK of amount sent for a spend transaction" should be "0.1% LISK of amount sent for a spend transaction".

We changed it to a constant 0.1 LISK. There was always the problem to calculate the fee, now it's very easy.

Great job! So if lisk will cost 10 usd in the future, transaction fee will be 1 usd. You guys rock! "Now it's very easy", lawl

I do agree with this. it should be percentage not constant. Constant will disrupt free economy as lisk goes up.

[1714735578]

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[1714735578]

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[1714735578]

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[TheGrayMouser]

Wow, lots of pages and what looks to be a smoothly running ICO.  Looking good Lisk!

[Daneal]

Nice LISK I joined the company's signature

[LiskHQ]

Fourth week bounty summary

I just wrote down all Facebook likers (484 stakes), Twitter followers (911 stakes), Newsletter subscribers (1675 stakes), Signature participants (281 stakes) and translators (53 stakes).

Week #1 Values
Week #2 Values
Week #3 Values


IMPORTANT! This is the last week (2nd March - 9th March) to receive a bounty stake!

The number of participants grew extremely big, we didn't anticipated that. Therefore this will be the last week of the bounty campaign. After this week I won't count new stakes anymore! I will distribute the bounties amongst all those who participated after Lisk has launched.

Here you can view the signature stakes for all weeks. The other lists won't be released, because there exists a privacy conflict. I saw that recently some users only wrote into this thread that they participated in the signature campaign. You need to send me a PM! If you are not on this list, please send me a PM until the 4th March! After the 4th I will not add you to the 4th week list!

Thank you very much.

[Emerge]

Since i did not get any answer to my last question i ask again. What will lisk coin be used for?
quote from MalReynolds "Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required"
So where will the value of a lisk coin come from if it is not used as some kind of fuel like ether in ethereum?
Can someone can clarify this or is this just a stupid pump thread?

Dapps will pay a nominal fee to register a side chain on the main Lisk blockchain.  After that small registration fee, there are no continuing sidechain payements to the Lisk Foundation.  As usual, correct me if I'm wrong, Max.

As sidechain apps charge for the services they are providing, they will probably ask for Lisk as their payment, since that is easiest to do (although writing for example Bitcoin processing directly into a Lisk app is theoretically possible).   Sidechain users will have to purchase Lisk at an exchange to use those sidechain services.   This will result in upward buying pressure for Lisk as a coin.  

Take for example any future Lisk sports betting dapps.  Lisk would effectively be the casino sports room tokens used among gamers to settle their wagers.  Those tokens would have to be purchased on an exchange, and could be later "cashed out" at an exchange for other currencies such as BTC and eventually USD.

Vegas, baby.

This sounds waaaaaaaay too complicated to do on Lisk.

You should checkout Breakoutcoin and its Gaming/Fantasy sports platform, they're planning an ICO in April: http://www.breakoutcoin.com/the-coin

My team DraftForge is also doing this and has been for a while without an ICO haha. We might also incorporate LISK in it soon

[Celendion]

the signature of members is not available?

[LiskHQ]

I've been thinking about this some more.  The post above discusses my desire to say something specific in the whitepaper on the maximum ISP latency acceptable for running a Lisk mainchain node.  (I am worried we are going to have a lot of disappointed Active Delegates when they realize they can't run a Lisk mainchain node from home on their spare PC and they actually have to rent a server at Vultr for $5 per month).  I also ask for confirmation that sidechains can run at slower block times that the mainchain, and if that alone would allow the use of slower, high-latency ISPs.

These are important and hard questions that nobody really knows the answers for yet.  One of my first goals when Lisk goes live with 0.5.5  is to set up some cheap sidechain nodes and run some timing experiments to get some answers.  I want to give my future sports dapp customers great service!

We will have to do this as a community. I will try it from the office and from home. Then take the latencies to different IPs and post them. If we all do this, we should find a minimum.

First off, are we going to start Lisk on version 0.5.5 software and not 0.5.4?

Version 0.5.5.

And once we start saying a Lisk blocktime of greater than 10 seconds is OK - why not set the official Lisk blocktime as necessary to maximize high-latency home ISP participation by Active Delegates?  Maybe that's a blocktime of 15 seconds, maybe that's 30 seconds, maybe that's a full minute of 60 seconds.  Logically, a 60 second blocktime should be able to handle 6 times higher latency delays than a 10 second blocktime, right?

No, if we are talking about latencies we are talking about milli seconds here. It doesn't make a difference if we have 10 second blocks or 60 second blocks.

Currently our blockchain database is 807MB big, after 2,234,777 blocks. That means every block is on average (approximately!) 0.000361MB or 361bytes big. About 3,000,000 blocks are 1 year. That means our blockchain will probably grow to about 1,5GB-2GB in the first year, due to more volume at Lisk. This is absolutely OK. Even 3GB would be OK.

We just bring the blockchain bloat problem at Ethereum, because imagine there are 10,000 dapps. That wouldn't be possible in my opinion right now. However, at Lisk this wouldn't change a thing, because of the sidechains.

Additionally, changing the 10 second block time is not 1 change of code. It would require heavy testing. So in conclusion, we won't change the 10 second block time which is only beneficial for users and devs.

Hey@all,

i want to change some btc to Lisk.

Where can i get a client for windows? That link https://downloads.lisk.io/lisk/main/lisk-0.1.1-Darwin-x86_64.zip on the page don't works.

Can someone help?

We haven't released the client yet. We will release the full client right at launch or very soon after that.

@Max
 You can please ask the exchange again?

Otherwise I will wait a week...

Perhaps we should make a little "publicity" for bter.

I will write another support ticket in a few minutes!

...I haven't gotten all of my keys/passphrases yet.

I was a little surprised to see a public key along with a passcode and Lisk account number from my XCR deposit.  Is this public key the same as the one in discussions going like "please send me 1 XCR so I can get a public key" ?  Will we need to do a "first transaction" in our new Lisk accounts in a few weeks to generate a new public key, or is the one assigned at the ICO site a good public key forever?

In asymmetric cryptography (public-key cryptography) a pair of keys is used (public and private). Both keys are generated simultaneously.
With the "first transaction" you mentioned, the public key is not generated, but firstly stored in the blockchain.

Exactly!

(Note: looks like whitepaper needs to be updated, "0.1 LISK of amount sent for a spend transaction" should be "0.1% LISK of amount sent for a spend transaction".

We changed it to a constant 0.1 LISK. There was always the problem to calculate the fee, now it's very easy.

Great job! So if lisk will cost 10 usd in the future, transaction fee will be 1 usd. You guys rock! "Now it's very easy", lawl

I do agree with this. it should be percentage not constant. Constant will disrupt free economy as lisk goes up.

Hah! Absolutely not. If the price of 1 LISK grows that high, we would obviously release an update which reduces the fees back to older levels.

Imagine a percentage fee of 0.1% as it was before. The more money you want to transfer, the more you have to pay for the transaction. Let's say you want to transact 10,000 LISK at the price of 10 USD as "Dwr" forcast. Then you would have to pay 100 USD transaction fee. However, with our (current!) constant fee you would have to pay 10 USD, most probably at this level we would have reduced it to 0.001 LISK, i.e. 1ct.

the signature of members is not available?

What do you mean?

[GoldenEye]

Web Wallet is down  

[LiskHQ]

Web Wallet is down  

It's back online.




Lisk Country Ambassadors Initiative

Lisk has fans world-wide who are interested in the idea of decentralised applications and custom blockchains. To strengthen the bond between the Lisk core team and local communities in different countries we have created the country ambassadors initiative.



Get all information on our blog

[BlockChainr]

Since i did not get any answer to my last question i ask again. What will lisk coin be used for?
quote from MalReynolds "Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required"
So where will the value of a lisk coin come from if it is not used as some kind of fuel like ether in ethereum?
Can someone can clarify this or is this just a stupid pump thread?

Dapps will pay a nominal fee to register a side chain on the main Lisk blockchain.  After that small registration fee, there are no continuing sidechain payements to the Lisk Foundation.  As usual, correct me if I'm wrong, Max.

As sidechain apps charge for the services they are providing, they will probably ask for Lisk as their payment, since that is easiest to do (although writing for example Bitcoin processing directly into a Lisk app is theoretically possible).   Sidechain users will have to purchase Lisk at an exchange to use those sidechain services.   This will result in upward buying pressure for Lisk as a coin.  

Take for example any future Lisk sports betting dapps.  Lisk would effectively be the casino sports room tokens used among gamers to settle their wagers.  Those tokens would have to be purchased on an exchange, and could be later "cashed out" at an exchange for other currencies such as BTC and eventually USD.

Vegas, baby.

This sounds waaaaaaaay too complicated to do on Lisk.

You should checkout Breakoutcoin and its Gaming/Fantasy sports platform, they're planning an ICO in April: http://www.breakoutcoin.com/the-coin

My team DraftForge is also doing this and has been for a while without an ICO haha. We might also incorporate LISK in it soon

Will your venture be Fully Licensed and Regulated like BreakoutGaming?
http://calvinayre.com/2015/01/13/business/interview-with-gian-perroni-on-break-out-gaming/

Also note that Breakout Gaming is backed by real life Poker celebirities like Johnny Chan, Huck Seed, Jennifer Harman, Ted Forrest, Todd Brunson, David Benyamine, Layne Flack, Toto Leonidas, Jeffrey Lisandro and Vladimir Shchemelev, etc:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/chan-brunson-headline-new-alt-currency-poker-site-breakout-gaming-39373
http://www.pokersites.com/news/johnny-chan-backs-bitcoin-poker-site-2743

You should join the BreakoutCoin chat on Slack: https://brocoin.slack.com perhaps you can collaborate with them.

[tobsnn]

Once the mainnet is live or maybe now (?) Lisk should be advertised directly where the JavaScript devs are. I don't know if there are really big forums or whatever, but that should be done.

very good idea. someone's gonna pick this up? efforts will be apreciated by all of us due to more attention and use of lisk.

[tobsnn]

Warning
Bter Crypti withdrawals are not processed for some time!
Do not be fooled by the low prices!
It is a bad idea to purchase Crypti there to attend the ICO, if you do not get out it.

This message below is active for 48 hours now. Bter seems not want to fill the hot wallet.
No response from the support so far  .

like i said few pages before, try to get all currencys out of there. bter seems having same problems like cryptsy had before shutdown.

[Acidx]

Web Wallet is down  

It's back online.




Lisk Country Ambassadors Initiative

Lisk has fans world-wide who are interested in the idea of decentralised applications and custom blockchains. To strengthen the bond between the Lisk core team and local communities in different countries we have created the country ambassadors initiative.



Get all information on our blog

Oh wow, that is awesome! I love how this coin is being spread wider and wider! It will equal into a better and fairer distribution of the coins!

ps. working on the swedish translation now

[LiskHQ]

Web Wallet is down  

It's back online.




Lisk Country Ambassadors Initiative

Lisk has fans world-wide who are interested in the idea of decentralised applications and custom blockchains. To strengthen the bond between the Lisk core team and local communities in different countries we have created the country ambassadors initiative.



Get all information on our blog

Oh wow, that is awesome! I love how this coin is being spread wider and wider! It will equal into a better and fairer distribution of the coins!

ps. working on the swedish translation now

Thanks, looking forward to it!

[honest john]

Warning
Bter Crypti withdrawals are not processed for some time!
Do not be fooled by the low prices!
It is a bad idea to purchase Crypti there to attend the ICO, if you do not get out it.

This message below is active for 48 hours now. Bter seems not want to fill the hot wallet.
No response from the support so far  .

https://i.imgur.com/juCwdcn.png

Thanks for the advice.

What screenshot software did you take that with?

I like the gradual fade to the whited out areas in it.

[cannabanana]

Since i did not get any answer to my last question i ask again. What will lisk coin be used for?
quote from MalReynolds "Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required"
So where will the value of a lisk coin come from if it is not used as some kind of fuel like ether in ethereum?
Can someone can clarify this or is this just a stupid pump thread?

Dapps will pay a nominal fee to register a side chain on the main Lisk blockchain.  After that small registration fee, there are no continuing sidechain payements to the Lisk Foundation.  As usual, correct me if I'm wrong, Max.

As sidechain apps charge for the services they are providing, they will probably ask for Lisk as their payment, since that is easiest to do (although writing for example Bitcoin processing directly into a Lisk app is theoretically possible).   Sidechain users will have to purchase Lisk at an exchange to use those sidechain services.   This will result in upward buying pressure for Lisk as a coin.  

Take for example any future Lisk sports betting dapps.  Lisk would effectively be the casino sports room tokens used among gamers to settle their wagers.  Those tokens would have to be purchased on an exchange, and could be later "cashed out" at an exchange for other currencies such as BTC and eventually USD.

Vegas, baby.

This sounds waaaaaaaay too complicated to do on Lisk.

You should checkout Breakoutcoin and its Gaming/Fantasy sports platform, they're planning an ICO in April: http://www.breakoutcoin.com/the-coin

My team DraftForge is also doing this and has been for a while without an ICO haha. We might also incorporate LISK in it soon

Will your venture be Fully Licensed and Regulated like BreakoutGaming?
http://calvinayre.com/2015/01/13/business/interview-with-gian-perroni-on-break-out-gaming/

Also note that Breakout Gaming is backed by real life Poker celebirities like Johnny Chan, Huck Seed, Jennifer Harman, Ted Forrest, Todd Brunson, David Benyamine, Layne Flack, Toto Leonidas, Jeffrey Lisandro and Vladimir Shchemelev, etc:
http://www.pokerlistings.com/chan-brunson-headline-new-alt-currency-poker-site-breakout-gaming-39373
http://www.pokersites.com/news/johnny-chan-backs-bitcoin-poker-site-2743

You should join the BreakoutCoin chat on Slack: https://brocoin.slack.com perhaps you can collaborate with them.

a poker or gambling coin is not the same as lisk.  You should consider bringing lisk into your life.

That and those stories are from freakin 2014.

[FNetV1]

Fourth week bounty summary

I just wrote down all Facebook likers (484 stakes), Twitter followers (911 stakes), Newsletter subscribers (1675 stakes), Signature participants (281 stakes) and translators (53 stakes).

Week #1 Values
Week #2 Values
Week #3 Values


IMPORTANT! This is the last week (2nd March - 9th March) to receive a bounty stake!

The number of participants grew extremely big, we didn't anticipated that. Therefore this will be the last week of the bounty campaign. After this week I won't count new stakes anymore! I will distribute the bounties amongst all those who participated after Lisk has launched.

Here you can view the signature stakes for all weeks. The other lists won't be released, because there exists a privacy conflict. I saw that recently some users only wrote into this thread that they participated in the signature campaign. You need to send me a PM! If you are not on this list, please send me a PM until the 4th March! After the 4th I will not add you to the 4th week list!

Thank you very much.

What does it mean to see my username only on the far right column, the only column that isn't labeled.  I didn't see my user name on the week1, week2, and week3 column but I did took park on the signature campaigns since the very first day on the 24H period.  I have been displaying the signature since everyday.  Is there anything wrong?

[Bigcabrito]

What does it mean to see my username only on the far right column, the only column that isn't labeled.  I didn't see my user name on the week1, week2, and week3 column but I did took park on the signature campaigns since the very first day on the 24H period.  I have been displaying the signature since everyday.  Is there anything wrong?

You might have been missed when Max was collecting the names for the signature.

On another note, it could also mean you didn't have the signature active on the first two weeks. But that would infer you're lying to the Lisk team... YOU'RE NOT LYING NOW, ARE YOUUU!!!??

Open a support ticket mentioning this, display any proof regarding your signature being active the first 2 weeks. If you don't have any, just display your replies on the first and second week and forward them to support.

I don't see this as being a big issue to be honest, don't worry about it too much it'll get resolve.

[MalReynolds]

I've been thinking about this some more.  The post above discusses my desire to say something specific in the whitepaper on the maximum ISP latency acceptable for running a Lisk mainchain node.  (I am worried we are going to have a lot of disappointed Active Delegates when they realize they can't run a Lisk mainchain node from home on their spare PC and they actually have to rent a server at Vultr for $5 per month).  I also ask for confirmation that sidechains can run at slower block times that the mainchain, and if that alone would allow the use of slower, high-latency ISPs.

These are important and hard questions that nobody really knows the answers for yet.  One of my first goals when Lisk goes live with 0.5.5  is to set up some cheap sidechain nodes and run some timing experiments to get some answers.  I want to give my future sports dapp customers great service!

We will have to do this as a community. I will try it from the office and from home. Then take the latencies to different IPs and post them. If we all do this, we should find a minimum.

Testing latencies as a community scattered around in an uncontrolled worldwide environment is very inefficient.   I fear such efforts will not give us the answers we need.

Once the Lisk mainchain is running, I would strongly recommend setting up a closed cluster of 16 Pi2s connected by Ethernet, all running the guestbook dapp among themselves as a Lisk sidechain.  Sixteen Pi2s is the maximum number of sidechain support nodes allowed by 0.5.5 if I remember the Crypti conversations correctly.  You could throw this whole cluster together for around $1000, maybe even run it as a Lisk-sponsored thesis project in the Aachen university environment.  

Once this test cluster is up and running, the next step is to start putting known test latency delays between the nodes, slowly increasing these delays until the sidechain delegate network finally fails.   Lots of valuable scenarios could be examined and documented in a whitepaper.  There's lots of software that is used for network testing of this sort, and even people who specialize in doing such test setups.  Maybe you could hire them as a consultant if there is no interest in doing it as an Aachen area engineering project.  See as an introduction:

http://bencane.com/2012/07/16/tc-adding-simulated-network-latency-to-your-linux-server/

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem

http://wanem.sourceforge.net/

http://www.trafficsqueezer.org/

Max, controlled testing like I am proposing here would provide vital information required to convince and sell major businesses into running enterprise dapps on Lisk side chains.  These tests would show Lisk is a serious player on par with Ethereum, willing to prove our performance claims with hard facts and proven numbers on bare metal hardware.  This kind of Pi2 cluster research would be relatively cheap.  You have the financial resources now to easily do such testing.   Having a Lisk sidechain engineering test bed like this would be an invaluable resource.  The photos alone of such a testbed for use in Lisk public relations would be a justifiable advertising expense if nothing else.  I  urge you to delegate this task to some local engineering student whose progress you can easily monitor.  Have them set up such a testbed as soon as possible, so testing can begin as soon as the Lisk mainchain starts.

Ha.  Here's somebody coming at you with a crazy idea on how to spend some of that new Lisk development money you now control.  Use me as a test case on learning how to handle such fools!

[Bigcabrito]

I've been thinking about this some more.  The post above discusses my desire to say something specific in the whitepaper on the maximum ISP latency acceptable for running a Lisk mainchain node.  (I am worried we are going to have a lot of disappointed Active Delegates when they realize they can't run a Lisk mainchain node from home on their spare PC and they actually have to rent a server at Vultr for $5 per month).  I also ask for confirmation that sidechains can run at slower block times that the mainchain, and if that alone would allow the use of slower, high-latency ISPs.

These are important and hard questions that nobody really knows the answers for yet.  One of my first goals when Lisk goes live with 0.5.5  is to set up some cheap sidechain nodes and run some timing experiments to get some answers.  I want to give my future sports dapp customers great service!

We will have to do this as a community. I will try it from the office and from home. Then take the latencies to different IPs and post them. If we all do this, we should find a minimum.

Testing latencies as a community by stumbling around in an uncontrolled worldwide environment is very inefficient.   I fear such efforts will not give us the answers we need.

Once the Lisk mainchain is running, I would strongly recommend setting up a closed cluster of 16 Pi2s connected by Ethernet, all running the guestbook dapp among themselves as a Lisk sidechain.  Sixteen Pi2s is the maximum number of sidechain support nodes allowed by 0.5.5 if I remember the Crypti conversations correctly.  You could throw this whole cluster together for around $1000, maybe even run it as a Lisk-sponsored thesis project in the Aachen university environment.  

Once this test cluster is up and running, the next step is to start putting known test latency delays between the nodes, slowly increasing these delays until the sidechain delegate network finally fails.   Lots of valuable scenarios could be examined and documented in a whitepaper.  There's lots of software that is used for network testing of this sort, and even people who specialize in doing such test setups.  Maybe you could hire them as a consultant if there is no interest in doing it as an Aachen area engineering project.  See as an introduction:

http://bencane.com/2012/07/16/tc-adding-simulated-network-latency-to-your-linux-server/

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/networking/netem

http://wanem.sourceforge.net/

http://www.trafficsqueezer.org/

Max, controlled testing like I am proposing here would provide vital information required to convince and sell major businesses into running enterprise dapps on Lisk side chains.  This kind of Pi2 cluster research would be relatively cheap.  You have the financial resources now to easily do such testing.  These tests would show Lisk is a serious player willing to prove our performance claims with hard facts and proven numbers.   Having a Lisk sidechain engineering test bed like this would be an invaluable resource.  I  urge you to delegate the task to someone to set such a testbed up as soon as possible, so testing can begin as soon as the Lisk mainchain starts.

I love how you think Mal. Scientific.

You make a very valid point in addressing latency and ways to figure out how to maximize the network. It could very well be the start of peer reviewed research for Lisk.

In my opinion though, there are some potential issues with the proposal that will need to be addressed to move forward with this:

• Guidance - Right now Olivier and Max have their full attention on Lisk, they would have to hire someone to guide the project and report findings.
• Time Sink - IF Lisk decides to test this themselves, it would inevitably distract them from Lisk core development, causing a rift in time management.
• Funding - They would need to address how much they are willing to spend on the project, and if it is worth it.

With this in mind, I can see how testing it in different IP's might be an issue, as there would be no control group. But, we might as well try (it's free, doesn't need guidance and would not distract core development) since the community is one hell of a resource.

Oh, by the way, this post is not meant to start a discussion whether it can or cannot be done. I highly believe it CAN be done, once the potential issues (and maybe others I've missed) have been addressed.