[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[Splatters]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

As far as I know BTER's BTC deposit/withdrawal works. It would be so nice if DEVs placed buy order at 1300 so people could take those BTC back into ICO exchange. Let them stuck on BTER, looks like they'll be useless soon anyway.

Bter is not a place where I would like to trade, I've removed my coins more than an year ago

[BigCat45]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

As far as I know BTER's BTC deposit/withdrawal works. It would be so nice if DEVs placed buy order at 1300 so people could take those BTC back into ICO exchange. Let them stuck on BTER, looks like they'll be useless soon anyway.

Bter is not a place where I would like to trade, I've removed my coins more than an year ago

Is it possible they dropped cold wallet into ICO hoping to make nice profit fast? In this case of cause all those orders will be processing for another two weeks.

[PPan]

Have just discovered Lisk. Looks interesting.

[Come-from-Beyond]

What language is used to code Lisk smart contracts?

[P-Funk]

So I'm trying to make a purchase of Lisk with Crypti and it says my account (which is funded) has no XCR, and your Crypti explorer shows my account with balance and transactions one moment and without any the next moment. What is going on? Why doesn't the site just give me a Crypti address to send to instead of having to use whatever daemon you are using that is having issues?

[MalReynolds]

I have to admit LISK has one of the most best organized ICOs  
Well done team! The great number of participants reveal huge community and support, so bright future ahead of us.

The best part of the Lisk ICO is that the numbers are clearly available for anybody to see.

LISK ICO OVERVIEW:

As I write this at 13:30 UTC, Lisk has a market cap of $2.157M = 5114 BTC.  This market cap can be divided into the following assets:

3199 BTC (62.5%) - Actual BTC donated, to be used as a $1.35M cash development fund for future versions of Lisk
0789 BTC (15.4%) - Equivalent BTC from Crypti transfers, effective value of Crypti Version 0.5.5 code base used to launch Lisk
0360 BTC (07.0%) - Early participation bonuses, effectively an advertising expense to organize approximately 2000 people into initial Lisk users
0360 BTC (07.0%) - Set-aside for future bounties and consulting payments
0203 BTC (04.0%) - Founder reward for Max Kordek, Lisk CEO
0203 BTC (04.0%) - Founder reward for Oliver Beddows, Lisk CTO

Note that Max and Olivier didn't have to give out early participation bonuses, which are a free giveaway of almost as much Lisk as they kept for themselves.

Here's the BTC donations by day so far:

Day 1&2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

BTC 801.3 43.5 131.8 109.0 190.2 107.0 63.5 69.0 113.1 174.9 314.9 275.8 343.4 95.2 139.5 170.4

Follow the numbers here as they change over the rest of the Lisk ICO:

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Bitcoin (BTC)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iOEdaRnBmSAO5miW7xYheeYUgo5wL9l9BONw6x21nQg/edit?usp=sharing

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Crypti (XCR)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit?usp=sharing

The Satoshi Price For One Lisk

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit?usp=sharing

In previous pages there is a mention that this isnt a Crypti Bailout.

I have written two posts on this false idea that the Lisk ICO is a "Crypti bailout".  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14152101#msg14152101

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14154777#msg14154777

Bottom line, BTC donors are not losing any money here regardless of what the Crypti donors do. You think I'm wrong about that, show me your math-based reasoning like I've shown you mine.

The people who are using Crypti to buy Lisk agree with Max and Olivier that the Crypti Foundation was not doing a very good job of pushing this JavaScript cheap microcomputer sidechain dapp technology forward.

Crypti stopped being coins and started being voting ballots once Lisk was announced.   If you are with Crypti and you want to stay with Crypti, do nothing.  If you are with Crypti and you want to go with Lisk, you convert your Crypti to Lisk.  The Crypti transfers are about voting, they are not about money.  Crypti donors have the same holdings value in Lisk as they did at Crypti - no more, no less.

Note the Crypti ICO raised exactly 750 BTC back in mid-2014, and the effective value being split among Crypti donors to Lisk is 789 BTC above.  The effective value of Crypti in Lisk is thus currently only 5% higher than the launch funding for Crypti almost two years ago.  So the Crypti folks certainly aren't seeing some huge boost in their fortunes as a result of moving over to Lisk!

[captainvest]

Just invested in the Lisk ICO. Got my passphrase and keys saved in 3 places and I'm ready!! 

[punkrock]

So I'm trying to make a purchase of Lisk with Crypti and it says my account (which is funded) has no XCR, and your Crypti explorer shows my account with balance and transactions one moment and without any the next moment. What is going on? Why doesn't the site just give me a Crypti address to send to instead of having to use whatever daemon you are using that is having issues?

Create a support ticket or join the chat to talk to @max or @oliver.

[kokokoin]

3199 BTC (62.5%) - Actual BTC donated, to be used as a $1.35M cash development fund for future versions of Lisk

I hope you won't just dump these BTC at market prices on one exchange like Vitalik did.

[ZenFr]

I hope you won't just dump these BTC at market prices on one exchange like Vitalik did.

Vitalik was completely stupid on this sale (and others stuffs)...

[dread454]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

[captainvest]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

The fact that it was able to raise over 3000 BTC 

[MalReynolds]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

Lisk is a dapp development platform that runs sidechains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_0TjP1gjY

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity
Like I said ... easy to write a Javascript compiler to Ethereum bytecode  
Let me know when it's done...or even started.  Even if an Ethereum JavaScript compiler  existed, Solidity is still a new, experimental, unstable language - why paste a compiler on top of it?  See:

https://docs.erisindustries.com/tutorials/solidity/solidity-1/

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers
The above argument eliminates this so called advantage of lisk
The above argument is vaporware.  JavaScript programmers can start coding Lisk dapps right now.

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime
Makes no sense at all
I've explained this several times.  Churning out trillions of wasted hashes means lots of wasted electricity - like literally a nuclear powerplant's worth for Bitcoin - and is an exponentially-growing financial overhead that will ultimately kill the coin.  See:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation
looks like the same as above
No, it's the key reason Lisk can run its nodes on a $9 CHIP computer and Ethereum can't.  Economies of scale hugely favor Lisk over BTC/ETH.  See:

http://getchip.com/pages/chip

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining
Forging is no different than mining ... just different ways to make the currency
It is so sad to see people that don't understand enough math to get why exponential growth is unsustainable, or why a stable system is different and better from an unstable one.

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain
Ethereum dapps are also sidechains .. lol .. you seem to be uninformed
The Ethereum Guide says its dapps are deployed on the mainchain ( https://gavofyork.gitbooks.io/turboethereum/content/dapps_deployment.html ).  Practically, in Ethereum dapps are just specialized "contracts".  There's my showdown cards in this poker hand - what's your counter-reference to prove what you are saying about Ethereum sidechains?  Prove to me that each dapp in Ethereum has its own separate blockchain as they do in Lisk.

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone
The GPU rings will not be used once POS for eth sets in
So...PoS for ETH is vaporware, got it.  How can you know that ETH PoS will run on microcomputers like Lisk does even if ETH PoS finally shows up?  What happens to all those sad little GPU miners whose income stream will be cut off?

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required
Ah ... What can possibly be the use of the beloved LISK then ...
What part of "free" vs. "paying for ETH gas forever" is so hard to understand?  Free is better.  Lisk is still the exchange coin of choice within the dapp itself.

[dread454]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity
Like I said ... easy to write a Javascript compiler to Ethereum bytecode  
Let me know when it's done...or even started.  Even if an Ethereum JavaScript compiler  existed, Solidity is still a new, experimental, unstable language - why paste a compiler on top of it?  See:

https://docs.erisindustries.com/tutorials/solidity/solidity-1/

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers
The above argument eliminates this so called advantage of lisk
The above argument is vaporware.  JavaScript programmers can start coding Lisk dapps right now.

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime
Makes no sense at all
I've explained this several times.  Churning out trillions of wasted hashes means lots of wasted electricity - like literally a nuclear powerplant's worth for Bitcoin - and is an exponentially-growing financial overhead that will ultimately kill the coin.  See:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation
looks like the same as above
No, it's the key reason Lisk can run its nodes on a $9 CHIP computer and Ethereum can't.  Economies of scale hugely favor Lisk over BTC/ETH.  See:

http://getchip.com/pages/chip

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining
Forging is no different than mining ... just different ways to make the currency
It is so sad to see people that don't understand enough math to get why exponential growth is unsustainable, or why a stable system is different and better from an unstable one.

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain
Ethereum dapps are also sidechains .. lol .. you seem to be uninformed
The Ethereum Guide says its dapps are deployed on the mainchain ( https://gavofyork.gitbooks.io/turboethereum/content/dapps_deployment.html ).  Practically, in Ethereum dapps are just specialized "contracts".  There's my showdown cards in this poker hand - what's your counter-reference to prove what you are saying about Ethereum sidechains?  Prove to me that each dapp in Ethereum has its own separate blockchain as they do in Lisk.

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone
The GPU rings will not be used once POS for eth sets in
So...PoS for ETH is vaporware, got it.  How can you know that ETH PoS will run on microcomputers like Lisk does even if ETH PoS finally shows up?  What happens to all those sad little GPU miners whose income stream will be cut off?

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required
Ah ... What can possibly be the use of the beloved LISK then ...
What part of "free" vs. "paying for ETH gas" is so hard to understand?  Free is better.  Lisk is still the exchange coin of choice within the dapp itself.

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?

[MalReynolds]

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?

There's no exchange yet that has agreed to carry Lisk...but there will be soon.

[dread454]

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?

There's no exchange yet that has agreed to carry Lisk...but there will be soon.

Ok, thanks. When does the ICO ends?

[poornamelessme]

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?

There's no exchange yet that has agreed to carry Lisk...but there will be soon.

Someone mentioned something in the Lisk price speculation thread that does make some sense... in a way, it may be better if Lisk wasn't listed on an exchange immediately after the ICO. It's psychological, but the fact that a coin is unavailable to purchase tends to make people more interested. So a short delay, perhaps with some marketing or Dapps contests, actually could benefit the coin by the time it hits an exchange.

It's also possible the coin could benefit from just being on Bittrex to begin with. The lure of eventually getting on Polo or larger exchanges might sustain its price level (or increase it), during the coin's initial dump period (happens with all ICOs, it's just a question of when).

[punkrock]

Ok, thanks. When does the ICO ends?

Here you see countdowns for ICO and bonuses: https://ico.lisk.io/

[captainvest]

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?

There's no exchange yet that has agreed to carry Lisk...but there will be soon.

Someone mentioned something in the Lisk price speculation thread that does make some sense... in a way, it may be better if Lisk wasn't listed on an exchange immediately after the ICO. It's psychological, but the fact that a coin is unavailable to purchase tends to make people more interested. So a short delay, perhaps with some marketing or Dapps contests, actually could benefit the coin by the time it hits an exchange.

It's also possible the coin could benefit from just being on Bittrex to begin with. The lure of eventually getting on Polo or larger exchanges might sustain its price level (or increase it), during the coin's initial dump period (happens with all ICOs, it's just a question of when).

Where is the Lisk price speculation thread?

[punkrock]

Where is the Lisk price speculation thread?

Here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1386914.0