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poornamelessme
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March 11, 2016, 07:02:09 PM |
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I doubt if BTER has any XCR left in their wallets...
They have a cold wallet address (which I forget), that showed plenty of XCR a short while ago. But their hot wallet has been empty for a while. I see XCR is still being bought up over there, albeit at a discount... guess some folks are hoping to get it cheap and still get it out before the ICO ends (or they don't know any better). Only suggestion I could make to anyone with a stuck withdrawal is to cancel + sell your XCR cheap (assuming volume will support it). It might be a loss, but some loss is better than total loss. That, or nag them non-stop via chat, and say you will start posting over here about Bter's imminent demise due to their empty wallets. Maybe the threat of bad publicity (not that they already haven't had a ton already), will get them to do something. |
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ZenFr
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1046
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March 11, 2016, 07:18:21 PM |
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Perfect organisation ! The delegate handbook is easy to learn.
Yes. Only the first 101 delegates can forge ? Like NXT ? Absolutely nothing for the others ? |
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LiskHQ (OP)
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March 11, 2016, 07:29:54 PM |
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Perfect organisation ! The delegate handbook is easy to learn.
Yes. Only the first 101 delegates can forge ? Like NXT ? Absolutely nothing for the others ? Yes. We hope long-term we will see many "delegate pools", which pay out their rewards to their voters. Or at least to some cause like Lisk marketing or Dapp bounties.  |
Lisk.io - Blockchain Application Platform
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rlh
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March 11, 2016, 07:32:54 PM |
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How long are block times? Or, better question, if there are only 101 delegates, what should be the average Lisk payout per day, per delegate.
Last question, how many delegates exist today?
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A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00. Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/" ...sigh. If only I knew.
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ottobene
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March 11, 2016, 07:39:08 PM |
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Interestingly, I will do all for free bounties
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rlh
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March 11, 2016, 07:50:40 PM |
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Ok, just so I'm clear, in an "ideal" situation, block times are 10 seconds? Let's a pad that number for safety sake and say that it is more realistically 15. So if there are 86400 seconds/day, and 101 delegates, 1 delegate should make ~4275 Lisk/day. Sound correct? Also, I asked how many delegates exists today? I thought I read somewhere that the Lisk servers are running so that servers can accumulate votes? Is that correct? I ask because 4275 Lisk/day isn't to shabby. I may fire up a node tonight. |
A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00. Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/" ...sigh. If only I knew.
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bitseedmike
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March 11, 2016, 07:57:23 PM |
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Perfect organisation ! The delegate handbook is easy to learn.
Yes. Only the first 101 delegates can forge ? Like NXT ? Absolutely nothing for the others ? Yes. We hope long-term we will see many "delegate pools", which pay out their rewards to their voters. Or at least to some cause like Lisk marketing or Dapp bounties. If you'd like to see delegate pools, please check out https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27&sid=b6481fda5c24916bf606273b26e04a95 and show your support so we can get a dapp built for delegate pools with voter profit sharing. This will create an incentive to accumulate Lisk to receive income from holding it. I have also posted a request on Rocket to have the features added to Cryptikit as an alternative to a dedicated dapp. |
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MalReynolds
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
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March 11, 2016, 08:02:01 PM |
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1 delegate should make ~4275 Lisk/day. Sound correct?
You slipped a decimal place somewhere. Your estimate is ten times too high. First year inflation is 15% or 15M Lisk divided between 101 people. That's 148.5K Lisk per delegate per year or 148500/365 = 407 Lisk per delegate per day. Math. It's all about the math. Also, I asked how many delegates exists today? I thought I read somewhere that the Lisk servers are running so that servers can accumulate votes? Is that correct? I ask because 4275 Lisk/day isn't to shabby. I may fire up a node tonight.
It is only a testnet. The real Lisk network with real payouts starts in April. |
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LiskHQ (OP)
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March 11, 2016, 08:02:52 PM |
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Ok, just so I'm clear, in an "ideal" situation, block times are 10 seconds? Let's a pad that number for safety sake and say that it is more realistically 15. So if there are 86400 seconds/day, and 101 delegates, 1 delegate should make ~4275 Lisk/day. Sound correct? Also, I asked how many delegates exists today? I thought I read somewhere that the Lisk servers are running so that servers can accumulate votes? Is that correct? I ask because 4275 Lisk/day isn't to shabby. I may fire up a node tonight. In an "ideal" situation the block time is 10 seconds. If one delegate is offline then one time in the round the block time will be 20 seconds. So the block times are always n*10 seconds long. A day has 86400 seconds, so 101 delegates have the chance to forge 8640 blocks. That means one delegate can forge 85 blocks, which results in 425 LISK per day. Right now we only have a testnet (test network). Lisk officially launches in the end of March, after the ICO and once we created a Genesis Block with all users from our ICO. |
Lisk.io - Blockchain Application Platform
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someonesomeone
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March 11, 2016, 08:07:41 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped? Ok, just so I'm clear, in an "ideal" situation, block times are 10 seconds? Let's a pad that number for safety sake and say that it is more realistically 15. So if there are 86400 seconds/day, and 101 delegates, 1 delegate should make ~4275 Lisk/day. Sound correct? Also, I asked how many delegates exists today? I thought I read somewhere that the Lisk servers are running so that servers can accumulate votes? Is that correct? I ask because 4275 Lisk/day isn't to shabby. I may fire up a node tonight. In an "ideal" situation the block time is 10 seconds. If one delegate is offline then one time in the round the block time will be 20 seconds. So the block times are always n*10 seconds long. A day has 86400 seconds, so 101 delegates have the chance to forge 8640 blocks. That means one delegate can forge 85 blocks, which results in 425 LISK per day. Right now we only have a testnet (test network). Lisk officially launches in the end of March, after the ICO and once we created a Genesis Block with all users from our ICO. |
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MalReynolds
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
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March 11, 2016, 08:15:55 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! |
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MaGNeT
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
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March 11, 2016, 08:34:47 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! Wow, what? 145M Lisk? I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO. 5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 LISK * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year. I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made. Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless you like to artificially keep the price down in the first 5 years. I'll buy more Lisk after the ICO, I'm sure price will drop with such high inflation rate. |
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ottobene
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March 11, 2016, 08:38:34 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! Wow, what? 145M Lisk? I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO. 5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year. I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made. Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless. How about ETH? How many ETH coins will added for 1.2.5 years? Because I don't know |
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MaGNeT
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
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March 11, 2016, 08:40:18 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! Wow, what? 145M Lisk? I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO. 5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year. I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made. Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless. How about ETH? How many ETH coins will added for 1.2.5 years? Because I don't know I think it's 13 Million ETH this year so ~90 Million when PoW mining ends. After that, 1-2 Million each year (PoS). Not 45 Million in 5 years... That's 45% inflation in 5 years... I know it's my own fault not making these calculations before but I'm really not happy with it, unless there's a really good explanation for it. |
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MalReynolds
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
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March 11, 2016, 08:43:01 PM |
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I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO....I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made.
These are the first calculations I made about Lisk, and I immediately started a heated discussion with Max arguing pretty much the same thing. I finally shut up because this is his show and I didn't want to distract him from doing what he thinks he needs to do to make Lisk a success. Who is to say whether this is too much inflation...or not enough? Time will tell. |
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MaGNeT
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
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March 11, 2016, 08:47:01 PM |
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I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO....I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made.
These are the first calculations I made about Lisk, and I immediately started a heated discussion with Max arguing pretty much the same thing. I finally shut up because this is his show and I didn't want to distract him from doing what he thinks he needs to do to make Lisk a success. Who is to say whether this is too much inflation...or not enough? Time will tell. When you launch a project with an ICO you get money from investors. By inflating the supply by 45% in a short period after the ICO, I don't think you're rewarding investors for taking a risk @ lisk. I know I it's not my show but I would like them to explain to me how an inflation rate of 45% is a good idea... |
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ottobene
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March 11, 2016, 08:47:07 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! Wow, what? 145M Lisk? I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO. 5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year. I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made. Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless. How about ETH? How many ETH coins will added for 1.2.5 years? Because I don't know I think it's 13 Million ETH this year so ~90 Million when PoW mining ends. After that, 1-2 Million each year (PoS). Not 45 Million in 5 years... That's 45% inflation in 5 years... I know it's my own fault not making these calculations before but I'm really not happy with it, unless there's a really good explanation for it. ETH have a lot of inflation as well. |
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MaGNeT
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1526
Merit: 1002
Waves | 3PHMaGNeTJfqFfD4xuctgKdoxLX188QM8na
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March 11, 2016, 08:48:50 PM |
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Is there an infinite amount of Lisk available? Or how is it capped?
Current plan (in round numbers): 100M Lisk in circulation at Launch 115M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 1 (from 5 Lisk per block forging rewards) 127M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 2 (from 4 Lisk per block forging rewards) 136M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 3 (from 3 Lisk per block forging rewards) 142M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 4 (from 2 Lisk per block forging rewards) 145M Lisk in circulation at End Of Year 5 (from 1 Lisk per block forging rewards) 3M Lisk added to circulation every year onward to infinity (constant 1 Lisk per block forging rewards forever) So yes, there is an infinite supply of Lisk - and it will take an infinite amount of time to get into circulation! Wow, what? 145M Lisk? I feel stupid now... I should have made these calculations myself before buying Lisk in the ICO. 5 coins per block sounds low but... 5 * 6 * 60 * 24 * 365.25 = 15,768,000 inflation in the first year. I don't want to be a troll about it but I really think that's too much inflation, especially since you let people invest money and then increase the supply before any real progress has been made. Why not start with 1 LISK per block? That's enough, I can't think of a reason for such high inflation rate unless. How about ETH? How many ETH coins will added for 1.2.5 years? Because I don't know I think it's 13 Million ETH this year so ~90 Million when PoW mining ends. After that, 1-2 Million each year (PoS). Not 45 Million in 5 years... That's 45% inflation in 5 years... I know it's my own fault not making these calculations before but I'm really not happy with it, unless there's a really good explanation for it. ETH have a lot of inflation as well. I'm not investing in ETH here, I'm investing in LISK... In the OP I read this: How is the distribution?
• 1,000,000 LISK for early supporters (Bounty Campaign).
• 2,000,000 LISK for advisors, partners, and 3rd parties.
• 4,000,000 LISK for campaigns and bounties (after ICO).
• 8,000,000 LISK for the Lisk core team.
• 85,000,000 LISK for ICO participants. I think a lot of people didn't make the calculation for the inflation rate... I didn't... If I did, I would have started this 2 weeks earlier, before investing in LISK... My mistake... I know... |
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LiskHQ (OP)
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March 11, 2016, 08:51:38 PM |
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/102y7i8_79Zfuzgo4oy99EDZwbQc8lR8W-LAC0vj8RlE/edit#gid=0In the first year it's 15.77%, so the Lisk community has to grow about 16% to maintain the same prices. At a 2M marketcap that's about $877 a day. That's really peanuts, in comparison Ethereum currently creates about $400,000 of new Ether every day. Bitcoin about $1,500,000. And remember, they are mining based. That means people need to sell the Ether/BTC in order to pay for their energy costs. At Lisk however the LISK don't need to be sold right away. In fact if the community sees that a delegate is always selling all his LISK they will remove the votes from him. Because running a LISK delegate is so cheap ($5 a month), the delegates should pay themselves a part and use the remaining funds for promotion, for the Lisk users, for the faucet and so on. Also the inflation is not happening over night. Your "45%" are happening over 1825 days! That's a crazy huge number of days for the blockchain space. ** I hope my calculations are all correct. It's getting late here.
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Lisk.io - Blockchain Application Platform
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