[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[BrosephGordonLevitt]

I accidentally bought a good bit of this today, and freaked out for a bit, but after checking it out more thoroughly I'm not really upset about it.  Should be interesting at least.  If you're wondering how someone accidentally purchases the wrong IPO of a coin....well I'm what's known as a "dumb" in clinical terms.  Sometimes inexplicable things just happen.  Will definitely see about getting some use out of this platform though seeing as how I'm already a JS dev to a degree, I cannot in any honesty say I'm a Solidarity dapp engineer so that's one point here vs. Ethereum. 

[TomArayaSlaya]

First of all, I want to say I love the idea and will be definitely following this.

But there is 1 thing that is a bit unclear to me.


In previous pages there is a mention that this isnt a Crypti Bailout.


But over 60 mill XCR has already been raised and it barely has any volume, how will you sell it all if you own almost the entire supply of it?


60mill almost proves people lost fate in XCR and jump ship to Lisk, who will be buying XCr from you.



Thanks and good luck !

the fact is that who is using their XCR to take Lisk has some kind of advantage towards who is buying lisk in btc.

[atchoum6760]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

[BrosephGordonLevitt]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

[karmacoma24]

I just noticed the version number you plan on using is 0.1.0. Why not 1.0? It's based on established and proven software, are you not confident it will be ready to go? 0.1.0 just sounds not confident.

The choice of version number is simply an indicator of our desire for a fresh start / new approach.

Although Lisk is a fork of Crypti, and right now the differences are few, this won't be the case forever.

Your confidence will likely increase in the number, when you actually see us deliver what we set out to achieve

[Kevinrasf]

I saw this posted a few pages back:

Hmmm... looks like BTC investors in Lisk ICO, just bailed out all Crypti bag holders.

I posted this only three pages ago, but since you missed it, here it is again....

BTC investors are NOT bailing out XCR bag holders in this ICO!

THERE IS NOT A ONE-FOR-ONE EXCHANGE OF CRYPTI XCR FOR LISK.

XCR members joining Lisk are getting their donations capped at the fair market value (at Poloniex, for example) of 1300 satoshi per XCR.    You can see that by going to the "How many Lisk will I get for my XCR" spreadsheet link in my other post above on page 129.  At present, the number is 0.274 Lisk will be issued for every Crypti XCR donated, and that number continues to drop as more BTC shows up.  A Lisk is currently worth 4759 Satoshi.  If you trade in ONE Crypti XCR, you currently get 0.274 Lisk and your new Lisk holding is worth 0.274 * 4759 = 1300 satoshi (with minor roundoff error). 

Now look at the "How many Lisk will I get for my BTC" spreadsheet.  If you trade in ONE Bitcoin, you currently get 21,100 Lisk and your new Lisk holding is worth 21,100 * 4759 = 100,000,000 satoshi (with minor roundoff error), which is exactly 1 BTC.

As noted in my post above, so far there have been 773 BTC worth of XCR donated to Lisk at the fixed fair market rate of 1300 satoshi and 2900 actual BTC donated at the adjustable fair market rate of 4759 satoshi per Lisk and rising.   The 773 BTC donated by Crypti holders is the fair market value of all the currently existing Version 0.5.5 sidechain / dapp software that Lisk will use at launch.  The Version 0.5.5 sidechain / dapp software used to launch Lisk is NOT VAPORWARE and its use does not come to the new BTC donors for free.  Utilization of that software as a starting point is currently priced fairly at 773 BTC.  The BTC donations of 2900+ will be used as a cash development fund to IMPROVE THIS CODE BASE and create Lisk Version 0.5.6 and beyond.

To summarize, the value of XCR donations are are capped at 1300 satoshi per coin; the value of BTC donations are continuously adjusted upward to get the current Lisk satoshi value (currently 4759 and rising).  That capped vs. continuous adjustment factor is what keeps the XCR folks from being "bailed out" by the BTC donors!

XCR donators have created a solid sidechain / dapp code base foundation and the new BTC donators are providing funding to improve it.   XCR and BTC donors are not opponents here.  We are all members of the new Lisk team!

What I meant to say is that what IF Lisk holds almost all XCR after the ICO.

They give LISK to people who paid in XCR but what IF you can barely sell the XCR??

Then basically the fund is from the BTC which is actually sellable, XCR has almost no volume.

Then isnt it a buyout sort to speak.

Please prove me wrong I just want to get some clearance on this.

[BigCat45]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

As far as I know BTER's BTC deposit/withdrawal works. It would be so nice if DEVs placed buy order at 1300 so people could take those BTC back into ICO exchange. Let them stuck on BTER, looks like they'll be useless soon anyway.

[Splatters]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

As far as I know BTER's BTC deposit/withdrawal works. It would be so nice if DEVs placed buy order at 1300 so people could take those BTC back into ICO exchange. Let them stuck on BTER, looks like they'll be useless soon anyway.

Bter is not a place where I would like to trade, I've removed my coins more than an year ago

[BigCat45]

How many BTC are collected for the ico ?

approx 3096.01006841 BTC

source: https://ico.lisk.io/

As far as I know BTER's BTC deposit/withdrawal works. It would be so nice if DEVs placed buy order at 1300 so people could take those BTC back into ICO exchange. Let them stuck on BTER, looks like they'll be useless soon anyway.

Bter is not a place where I would like to trade, I've removed my coins more than an year ago

Is it possible they dropped cold wallet into ICO hoping to make nice profit fast? In this case of cause all those orders will be processing for another two weeks.

[PPan]

Have just discovered Lisk. Looks interesting.

[Come-from-Beyond]

What language is used to code Lisk smart contracts?

[P-Funk]

So I'm trying to make a purchase of Lisk with Crypti and it says my account (which is funded) has no XCR, and your Crypti explorer shows my account with balance and transactions one moment and without any the next moment. What is going on? Why doesn't the site just give me a Crypti address to send to instead of having to use whatever daemon you are using that is having issues?

[MalReynolds]

I have to admit LISK has one of the most best organized ICOs  
Well done team! The great number of participants reveal huge community and support, so bright future ahead of us.

The best part of the Lisk ICO is that the numbers are clearly available for anybody to see.

LISK ICO OVERVIEW:

As I write this at 13:30 UTC, Lisk has a market cap of $2.157M = 5114 BTC.  This market cap can be divided into the following assets:

3199 BTC (62.5%) - Actual BTC donated, to be used as a $1.35M cash development fund for future versions of Lisk
0789 BTC (15.4%) - Equivalent BTC from Crypti transfers, effective value of Crypti Version 0.5.5 code base used to launch Lisk
0360 BTC (07.0%) - Early participation bonuses, effectively an advertising expense to organize approximately 2000 people into initial Lisk users
0360 BTC (07.0%) - Set-aside for future bounties and consulting payments
0203 BTC (04.0%) - Founder reward for Max Kordek, Lisk CEO
0203 BTC (04.0%) - Founder reward for Oliver Beddows, Lisk CTO

Note that Max and Olivier didn't have to give out early participation bonuses, which are a free giveaway of almost as much Lisk as they kept for themselves.

Here's the BTC donations by day so far:

Day 1&2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17

BTC 801.3 43.5 131.8 109.0 190.2 107.0 63.5 69.0 113.1 174.9 314.9 275.8 343.4 95.2 139.5 170.4

Follow the numbers here as they change over the rest of the Lisk ICO:

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Bitcoin (BTC)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iOEdaRnBmSAO5miW7xYheeYUgo5wL9l9BONw6x21nQg/edit?usp=sharing

How Many Lisk You Will Receive For One Crypti (XCR)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GwWKK7bpjYTxtQRIq_l2xiKI9rEOpTU1oTt0q3C6Mc8/edit?usp=sharing

The Satoshi Price For One Lisk

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q2MJ25_bK5Yi60FYohYCUEkujUtL5c0P1dOdlDMPMBI/edit?usp=sharing

In previous pages there is a mention that this isnt a Crypti Bailout.

I have written two posts on this false idea that the Lisk ICO is a "Crypti bailout".  

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14152101#msg14152101

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1346646.msg14154777#msg14154777

Bottom line, BTC donors are not losing any money here regardless of what the Crypti donors do. You think I'm wrong about that, show me your math-based reasoning like I've shown you mine.

The people who are using Crypti to buy Lisk agree with Max and Olivier that the Crypti Foundation was not doing a very good job of pushing this JavaScript cheap microcomputer sidechain dapp technology forward.

Crypti stopped being coins and started being voting ballots once Lisk was announced.   If you are with Crypti and you want to stay with Crypti, do nothing.  If you are with Crypti and you want to go with Lisk, you convert your Crypti to Lisk.  The Crypti transfers are about voting, they are not about money.  Crypti donors have the same holdings value in Lisk as they did at Crypti - no more, no less.

Note the Crypti ICO raised exactly 750 BTC back in mid-2014, and the effective value being split among Crypti donors to Lisk is 789 BTC above.  The effective value of Crypti in Lisk is thus currently only 5% higher than the launch funding for Crypti almost two years ago.  So the Crypti folks certainly aren't seeing some huge boost in their fortunes as a result of moving over to Lisk!

[captainvest]

Just invested in the Lisk ICO. Got my passphrase and keys saved in 3 places and I'm ready!! 

[kokokoin]

3199 BTC (62.5%) - Actual BTC donated, to be used as a $1.35M cash development fund for future versions of Lisk

I hope you won't just dump these BTC at market prices on one exchange like Vitalik did.

[ZenFr]

I hope you won't just dump these BTC at market prices on one exchange like Vitalik did.

Vitalik was completely stupid on this sale (and others stuffs)...

[dread454]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

[captainvest]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

The fact that it was able to raise over 3000 BTC 

[MalReynolds]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

Lisk is a dapp development platform that runs sidechains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_0TjP1gjY

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity
Like I said ... easy to write a Javascript compiler to Ethereum bytecode  
Let me know when it's done...or even started.  Even if an Ethereum JavaScript compiler  existed, Solidity is still a new, experimental, unstable language - why paste a compiler on top of it?  See:

https://docs.erisindustries.com/tutorials/solidity/solidity-1/

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers
The above argument eliminates this so called advantage of lisk
The above argument is vaporware.  JavaScript programmers can start coding Lisk dapps right now.

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime
Makes no sense at all
I've explained this several times.  Churning out trillions of wasted hashes means lots of wasted electricity - like literally a nuclear powerplant's worth for Bitcoin - and is an exponentially-growing financial overhead that will ultimately kill the coin.  See:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation
looks like the same as above
No, it's the key reason Lisk can run its nodes on a $9 CHIP computer and Ethereum can't.  Economies of scale hugely favor Lisk over BTC/ETH.  See:

http://getchip.com/pages/chip

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining
Forging is no different than mining ... just different ways to make the currency
It is so sad to see people that don't understand enough math to get why exponential growth is unsustainable, or why a stable system is different and better from an unstable one.

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain
Ethereum dapps are also sidechains .. lol .. you seem to be uninformed
The Ethereum Guide says its dapps are deployed on the mainchain ( https://gavofyork.gitbooks.io/turboethereum/content/dapps_deployment.html ).  Practically, in Ethereum dapps are just specialized "contracts".  There's my showdown cards in this poker hand - what's your counter-reference to prove what you are saying about Ethereum sidechains?  Prove to me that each dapp in Ethereum has its own separate blockchain as they do in Lisk.

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone
The GPU rings will not be used once POS for eth sets in
So...PoS for ETH is vaporware, got it.  How can you know that ETH PoS will run on microcomputers like Lisk does even if ETH PoS finally shows up?  What happens to all those sad little GPU miners whose income stream will be cut off?

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required
Ah ... What can possibly be the use of the beloved LISK then ...
What part of "free" vs. "paying for ETH gas forever" is so hard to understand?  Free is better.  Lisk is still the exchange coin of choice within the dapp itself.

[dread454]

How the hell did this managed to raise over 3000 BTC What's so special about this entity

LISK HOLDS THE FOLLOWING ADVANTAGES OVER ETHERIUM:

Javascript language simplicity vs Solidity language complexity
Like I said ... easy to write a Javascript compiler to Ethereum bytecode  
Let me know when it's done...or even started.  Even if an Ethereum JavaScript compiler  existed, Solidity is still a new, experimental, unstable language - why paste a compiler on top of it?  See:

https://docs.erisindustries.com/tutorials/solidity/solidity-1/

100,000+ JavaScript programmers vs. few Solidity programmers
The above argument eliminates this so called advantage of lisk
The above argument is vaporware.  JavaScript programmers can start coding Lisk dapps right now.

Single hash generated  vs. trillions of valid but discarded hashes generated to secure blockchain in one blocktime
Makes no sense at all
I've explained this several times.  Churning out trillions of wasted hashes means lots of wasted electricity - like literally a nuclear powerplant's worth for Bitcoin - and is an exponentially-growing financial overhead that will ultimately kill the coin.  See:

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Cooperative, efficient blockchain generation vs. competitive, wasteful blockchain generation
looks like the same as above
No, it's the key reason Lisk can run its nodes on a $9 CHIP computer and Ethereum can't.  Economies of scale hugely favor Lisk over BTC/ETH.  See:

http://getchip.com/pages/chip

Stable roundtable clockwork forging vs. unsustainable, exponentially growing free-for-all mining
Forging is no different than mining ... just different ways to make the currency
It is so sad to see people that don't understand enough math to get why exponential growth is unsustainable, or why a stable system is different and better from an unstable one.

Dapps on individual sidechains vs. dapps on bloated mainchain
Ethereum dapps are also sidechains .. lol .. you seem to be uninformed
The Ethereum Guide says its dapps are deployed on the mainchain ( https://gavofyork.gitbooks.io/turboethereum/content/dapps_deployment.html ).  Practically, in Ethereum dapps are just specialized "contracts".  There's my showdown cards in this poker hand - what's your counter-reference to prove what you are saying about Ethereum sidechains?  Prove to me that each dapp in Ethereum has its own separate blockchain as they do in Lisk.

Min of 2-4 to max of 101 cheap $35 Pi2 / $9 CHIP microcomputers needed for each sidechain backbone vs. large, unlimited numbers of expensive GPU systems needed for mainchain backbone
The GPU rings will not be used once POS for eth sets in
So...PoS for ETH is vaporware, got it.  How can you know that ETH PoS will run on microcomputers like Lisk does even if ETH PoS finally shows up?  What happens to all those sad little GPU miners whose income stream will be cut off?

Sidechain dapps permanently free vs. mainchain perpetual "gas" payments required
Ah ... What can possibly be the use of the beloved LISK then ...
What part of "free" vs. "paying for ETH gas" is so hard to understand?  Free is better.  Lisk is still the exchange coin of choice within the dapp itself.

Will this be available to trade right after ICO?