[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers

[MaGNeT]

Almost 50% of Lisk ICO participant are from RUSSIA and Ukraine

Aren't they afraid of the new 7 year prison sentence law for Bitcoin activity in Russia?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/49y4xt/up_to_7_year_prison_term_for_bitcoin_use_in_russia/

Visitors ≠ ICO participants

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[Kushedout]

We didn't realize your problems are so much more significant than potential security flaws in the coin you have bought. Notice how no one has a good reply to my analysis. You may want to take some time to understand what you read. I mean, you can't even figure out how the ICO site works.

Either way, you can just open it on a desktop browser. The keys are not tied to your device. Go to your exchange and generate keys.

You are welcome.

Only if you hold 51% of the total coin supply can you guarantee control of the delegates.

Other than this, it is just pure speculation. Your scenario where a whale may control 30 or maybe 40 percent of the total coin supply, and by plurality (or relative majority) they may take over the delegates is a possibility, but highly unlikely as he would have to create 101 personalities over night (unless he has been prepared for this in the past months and has created multiple identities). Although, how would this be beneficial for the whale? He would be sinking his own ship by the upcoming FUD and the possible demise of the cryptocurrency he is so invested in.

I agree that allowing up to 101 votes from the same Lisk is kind of screwy - never liked it in Crypti either. I would rather see votes from an account balance split their weight. It would also be nice if the voting interface allowed assigning a percentage to each delegate voted for, so a vote from an account with 100 Lisk for 4 delegates would default to 25 votes for each delegate, but could be set to 70%, 10%, 10%, 10% so the delegates would receive 70, 10, 10, and 10 votes.

Personally, if the scenario above were to develop, Lisk would need cooperation from most of the Lisk accounts to swap out the delegates. Furthermore, having accounts split their voting weight would mean little to this whale, as he could create 101 delegates and spread his wealth throughout them, and would likely beat most if not all the delegates who are voting for themselves (almost the same scenario as above, give or take a few delegates).

Nonetheless, it is important that the potential security flaws of Lisk are being questioned, and these should not be easily dismissed. Reminder to all, Lisk is an experiment with blockchain technology, such as every other cryptocurrency projects. I am certain that future improvements to the Lisk protocol will be implemented if a potential security flaw is deemed a serious threat.

Let me put it this way, if hand full of whales combine their weight to take the 49th delegate spot, they are guaranteed all the spots bellow that, wich means the remaining 52 spots.

[yonatangov]

this message is aimed to the founders of lisk- max and oliver-

I'm invested in LISK, mainly because i think the team is enthusiastic, ran a good ico compaign and have a good idea to invest in.

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET RIGHT AFTER THE ICO ENDS. WHICH MEANS- NOT MUCH DONE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE COIN ATTRACTIVE.

MY SUGGESTION-

1. DELAY THE DATE IN WHICH THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET IN A FEW MONTHS.
2. IN THE MEANWHILE- HIRE A GOOD TEAM WITH WELLKNOWN FACES AS ADVISORS.
3. START BUILDING THE PROJECT WITH GOOD PR.

OTHERWISE- im sure the coin value will drop once it goes out- AND WE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

TNX!

[redsn0w]

this message is aimed to the founders of lisk- max and oliver-

I'm invested in LISK, mainly because i think the team is enthusiastic, ran a good ico compaign and have a good idea to invest in.

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET RIGHT AFTER THE ICO ENDS. WHICH MEANS- NOT MUCH DONE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE COIN ATTRACTIVE.

MY SUGGESTION-

1. DELAY THE DATE IN WHICH THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET IN A FEW MONTHS.
2. IN THE MEANWHILE- HIRE A GOOD TEAM WITH WELLKNOWN FACES AS ADVISORS.
3. START BUILDING THE PROJECT WITH GOOD PR.

OTHERWISE- im sure the coin value will drop once it goes out- AND WE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

TNX!

Did you create a new forum account only to write this post ? awesome  !

[Forrest01]

This is a story about an exchange
It has 33% of all lisk. It has 101 votes. It votes for 101 of it's 1 lisk wallets.
Everyone else is fucked.
Discuss

Exchanges do not use any of the current crypto wallets with funds to vote or to stake coins.
If they do this, it would not be considered an exhange anymore and could be liable for huge legal repercussions.

With all due respect, relying on an exchange to obey the laws of some arbitrary jurisdiction is a pretty weak argument. What if they operate in Somalia where there is no functional government?

the fact is that the exchanges cant have all the nodes because they would have to be voted in by the people.  Gawd your Fkn stupid.

The exchange would have enough of the money supply to control all the delegates. They wouldn't need votes from the people.
If they control delegates proportional to their holdings, that's one thing. But with delegates, they don't even need a majority if the rest of the vote is split.
There is nothing in the protocol to prevent full control by a minority holder. No other blockchain security system has this sort of weakness.

In this situation, the solution is for the true owners of the Lisk to pull their holdings out of the exchange.  Once that Lisk is transferred from the exchange back to the true owners, the votes it was used for are voided.  

Now, if you have an exchange that doesn't give the Lisk back to its owners, then you've got a bigger problem than voting - you've got Mt. Gox.

That's a weakness that all blockchain security systems can't solve : out-and-out theft.

The real solution is to write a dapp that allows swapping of other cryptocoins in exchange for Lisk and so allow Lisk to become its own exchange.

We can also put a cut-off percentage for voting in such cases, meaning if an organization holding 33% of all LISK takes part in voting then only a defined percentage (say 10%) of their holding would be used for voting.

[MaGNeT]

this message is aimed to the founders of lisk- max and oliver-

I'm invested in LISK, mainly because i think the team is enthusiastic, ran a good ico compaign and have a good idea to invest in.

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET RIGHT AFTER THE ICO ENDS. WHICH MEANS- NOT MUCH DONE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE COIN ATTRACTIVE.

MY SUGGESTION-

1. DELAY THE DATE IN WHICH THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET IN A FEW MONTHS.
2. IN THE MEANWHILE- HIRE A GOOD TEAM WITH WELLKNOWN FACES AS ADVISORS.
3. START BUILDING THE PROJECT WITH GOOD PR.

OTHERWISE- im sure the coin value will drop once it goes out- AND WE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

TNX!

I really don't mind, I'll buy up the weak hands.

[Bubba-Gump]

Only if you hold 51% of the total coin supply can you guarantee control of the delegates.

Other than this, it is just pure speculation. Your scenario where a whale may control 30 or maybe 40 percent of the total coin supply, and by plurality (or relative majority) they may take over the delegates is a possibility, but highly unlikely as he would have to create 101 personalities over night (unless he has been prepared for this in the past months and has created multiple identities). Although, how would this be beneficial for the whale? He would be sinking his own ship by the upcoming FUD and the possible demise of the cryptocurrency he is so invested in.

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

Like you said, taking over all the delegates with a plurality of the vote is possible. So you agree with my core criticism of the security mechanism.

But I also think it is more likely than you make it out to be. Dominating the chain with a plurality of the vote is a way to optimize staking. A whale who takes this strategy need not intend to attack the chain or do any harm to it. But they will disproportionately be awarded new mint in the process. That's the underlying weakness and creates unreasonable opportunities and incentive for centralization.

[Kushedout]

Only if you hold 51% of the total coin supply can you guarantee control of the delegates.

Other than this, it is just pure speculation. Your scenario where a whale may control 30 or maybe 40 percent of the total coin supply, and by plurality (or relative majority) they may take over the delegates is a possibility, but highly unlikely as he would have to create 101 personalities over night (unless he has been prepared for this in the past months and has created multiple identities). Although, how would this be beneficial for the whale? He would be sinking his own ship by the upcoming FUD and the possible demise of the cryptocurrency he is so invested in.

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

Like you said, taking over all the delegates with a plurality of the vote is possible. So you agree with my core criticism of the security mechanism.

But I also think it is more likely than you make it out to be. Dominating the chain with a plurality of the vote is a way to optimize staking. A whale who takes this strategy need not intend to attack the chain or do any harm to it. But they will disproportionately be awarded new mint in the process. That's the underlying weakness and creates unreasonable opportunities and incentive for centralization.

^ This.

If combined effort can grab a sit, any sit bellow that is guaranteed. Extreme, but likely case would be, If they take the #1 spot, the remaining 100 is guaranteed.

I would realy like to see Lisk team comment on this.

[Bigcabrito]

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

In order to register as a Delegate you will need to provide further information (e.g. full name, bitcointalk.org name, twitter, facebook, e-mail, etc.).

This enables voters to know who they are voting for.

[Kushedout]

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

In order to register as a Delegate you will need to provide further information (e.g. full name, bitcointalk.org name, twitter, facebook, e-mail, etc.).

This enables voters to know who they are voting for.

Link to those mentioned requirements? I didnt see input area for those fields in the wallet.

[Bubba-Gump]

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

In order to register as a Delegate you will need to provide further information (e.g. full name, bitcointalk.org name, twitter, facebook, e-mail, etc.).

This enables voters to know who they are voting for.

Okay, this is missing from the handbook. It needs to be in there. I'm not completely convinced of the wisdom of this system yet, but I fully concede that tying the voting mechanism to real-world input adds a lot more legitimacy to this type of process.

[Bigcabrito]

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

In order to register as a Delegate you will need to provide further information (e.g. full name, bitcointalk.org name, twitter, facebook, e-mail, etc.).

This enables voters to know who they are voting for.

Link to those mentioned requirements? I didnt see input area for those fields in the wallet.

Those are examples given, not mentioned requirements. As far as I know, this was discussed in the early stages of the ICO. I am not certain if it has been documented or if it is live on the test network. You would need to get an official confirmation from the developers that this will indeed go live before launching the coin.

[Bubba-Gump]

Explain to me how "personalities" are relevant to a block chain. A potential delegate simply registers a public key. They don't have to prove their identity in any other way.

In order to register as a Delegate you will need to provide further information (e.g. full name, bitcointalk.org name, twitter, facebook, e-mail, etc.).

This enables voters to know who they are voting for.

Link to those mentioned requirements? I didnt see input area for those fields in the wallet.

Those are examples given, not mentioned requirements. As far as I know, this was discussed in the early stages of the ICO. I am not certain if it has been documented or if it is live on the test network. You would need to get an official confirmation from the developers that this will indeed go live before launching the coin.

By the way, "a lot more legitimacy" is a relative statement.

In the end, online identities are easy to fake and are essentially meaningless.

[rezilient]

this message is aimed to the founders of lisk- max and oliver-

I'm invested in LISK, mainly because i think the team is enthusiastic, ran a good ico compaign and have a good idea to invest in.

MY MAIN CONCERN IS THAT THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET RIGHT AFTER THE ICO ENDS. WHICH MEANS- NOT MUCH DONE IN ORDER TO MAKE THE COIN ATTRACTIVE.

MY SUGGESTION-

1. DELAY THE DATE IN WHICH THE COIN GOES OUT TO THE MARKET IN A FEW MONTHS.
2. IN THE MEANWHILE- HIRE A GOOD TEAM WITH WELLKNOWN FACES AS ADVISORS.
3. START BUILDING THE PROJECT WITH GOOD PR.

OTHERWISE- im sure the coin value will drop once it goes out- AND WE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

TNX!

I really don't mind, I'll buy up the weak hands.

I'll help you out on there.

[Maythe2nd]

Last day for the 5% bonus!! only 19 hours left, we will touch 4k btc?

[Porsche911]

Next week will be an exclusive Interview with Lisk CEO Max.

Check it out for more informations:

https://twitter.com/ProjectInvesd/status/708604244396482561
https://invesd.org/

[MaGNeT]

Lot of people invested in this ICO without realizing that this entire project is a fork of the old Crypti coin and dapp platform.

Lisk Devs have yet to "create" anything new here, this why I think Lisk will drop as soon as it hits the exchanges. There will be many opportunities to buy below ICO price, until Devs actually release new features that they create, not something cloned from Crypti.

Most projects start with an ICO and have only a whitepaper and no finished code as a base to start from.

Lisk already has this.

Not saying price will go up but it is not likely to go down.

[redcastle]

Lot of people invested in this ICO without realizing that this entire project is a fork of the old Crypti coin and dapp platform.

Lisk Devs have yet to "create" anything new here, this why I think Lisk will drop as soon as it hits the exchanges. There will be many opportunities to buy below ICO price, until Devs actually release new features that they create, not something cloned from Crypti.

Most projects start with an ICO and have only a whitepaper and no finished code as a base to start from.

Lisk already has this.

Not saying price will go up but it is not likely to go down.

Not sure if join or not!!! How much would you invest??

[MalReynolds]

Almost 50% of Lisk ICO participant are from RUSSIA and Ukraine

Aren't they afraid of the new 7 year prison sentence law for Bitcoin activity in Russia?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/49y4xt/up_to_7_year_prison_term_for_bitcoin_use_in_russia/

Interesting but you have to take unverified Alexia results with a grain of salt.   They come up with these numbers by asking people to install the Alexia toolbar, so it is a self selecting group.  If only one person from a country with the Alexia toolbar installed in their browser shows up, and nobody from other countries, then the results get skewed like you see here.  Website masters can install Alexia software on their site to get much more accurate results.  That would be very interesting and valuable information.

@Max: I recommend you subscribe on this.  Splurge for the "Advanced" package;  I think you have the funds available for it.  

http://www.alexa.com/plans?ax_atid=c151db38-75b9-4c2c-8fa9-83ca6589ee4a

[MaGNeT]

Lot of people invested in this ICO without realizing that this entire project is a fork of the old Crypti coin and dapp platform.

Lisk Devs have yet to "create" anything new here, this why I think Lisk will drop as soon as it hits the exchanges. There will be many opportunities to buy below ICO price, until Devs actually release new features that they create, not something cloned from Crypti.

Most projects start with an ICO and have only a whitepaper and no finished code as a base to start from.

Lisk already has this.

Not saying price will go up but it is not likely to go down.

Not sure if join or not!!! How much would you invest??

Invest only what you are willing to lose.

I bought some in ICO and if price should drop, I'll buy some more at the exchanges.