Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[tokeweed]

another WTF Gp.

Safety car on 2 laps at the end and now Verstappen will probably win

Never before has a world championship been decided like that in the last lap around the safety car, the lapping of the cars was also strange but that will be a topic of conversation, but for me a deserved world champion, Verstappen had more bad luck during the season and luck on his side in the last race. It's a pity that Perez dropped out, otherwise the constructors' championship would have been exciting.

The most important thing is no more penalties after the race, then it would be ridiculous.

^  He totally deserves it for sure.  He has the worse car than Hamilton’s, he had a couple of bad outcomes during the season, a couple of questionable FIA decisions against him and he drove with everything he’s got until the end.  Definitely well deserved.  I guess the only people who’d say no are Hamilton fans.  

Aahhh...  This calls for a drink.  Lol.  Can’t wait what’s in store for next season!

[coinlocket$]

^  He totally deserves it for sure.  He has the worse car than Hamilton’s, he had a couple of bad outcomes during the season, a couple of questionable FIA decisions against him and he drove with everything he’s got until the end.  Definitely well deserved.  I guess the only people who’d say no are Hamilton fans.  

Aahhh...  This calls for a drink.  Lol.  Can’t wait what’s in store for next season!

I'm not a Lewis fan but you have a short memory.

Probably you have forgotten the illegal flex wings used by Redbull during the 1st part of the season.

[Jackl87]

HAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAA

No words here except Mercedes prolly shot themselves in the leg for leaving Hamilton out while Verstappen was pitting for a new set of hards during the virtual safety car.  Verstappen to get the fastest lap was 3.45.  Wooow.  What a season ender.  This really made my day.  I thought it was all Hamilton.

After Verstappen botched his start a little and Hamilton had a great start himself i only watched a few more rounds but then i turned the race off because i was sure that Hamilton would have not much problems to bring this race home because i thought Mercedes had a way faster race pace then Red Bull and also the better tyres to control the race. Now i just read that Verstappen still won the race and i immediately switched back to the race. It seems like Hamilton would have really had no big problems to win this one if the safety car did not happen just before the end of the race. Even though i am neutral i am happy for Verstappen because i think he deserved it.

[tokeweed]

^  He totally deserves it for sure.  He has the worse car than Hamilton’s, he had a couple of bad outcomes during the season, a couple of questionable FIA decisions against him and he drove with everything he’s got until the end.  Definitely well deserved.  I guess the only people who’d say no are Hamilton fans.  

Aahhh...  This calls for a drink.  Lol.  Can’t wait what’s in store for next season!

I'm not a Lewis fan but you have a short memory.

Probably you have forgotten the illegal flex wings used by Redbull during the 1st part of the season.

^  I never said or assumed you were...  I was talking to Koal-84.  And I was talking more about my friends who are mostly Hamilton fans.  Aaahhh what a day.  Toto Wolff going off in radio is music to my ears.  Lolol.

But yeah...  I hope the next season is better with the new specs.  More over taking, more close races and hopefully George Russell does well.  He’s the future of Mercedes and F1 over all.

[LTU_btc]

It was f**king unbeleavable. One of the most epic end of season I ever saw. Only 2008 was something similar.
Mercedes had everything in their hands, they were faster on track. But when they didn't pitted Lewis on VSC, it probably cost them title. It's unbeleavable when champion title is decided on last lap. And miracle called Latifi happened.

[AakZaki]

Personally, I think it's quite possible that Marc might retire if he doesn't get completely fit and can match the performance of his best MotoGP years. Marquez is not the type who wants only to ride, but he wants to win every race, if the body does not play along, I can imagine a retirement.

I hope he will recover soon. Regarding the injuries and new diseases he has, hopefully he can be healed. If he retires then maybe MotoGP will be boring. He is still young I'm sure he has a better healing period. Even though I'm not a fan, Marquez started to improve at the end of last season's race.

There will be three new and rebranded teams in the 2022 season.

Three new teams and a rebranded setup will be accepted into MotoGP in 2022, with Aprilia being the full factory setup and Gresini being the only Independent Team. With the Yamaha RNF MotoGP Team – officially Petronas Yamaha SRT – and VR46 Racing.

Meanwhile, the drivers who entered the list are as follows.



Source: https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/11/16/2022-provisional-entry-lists-announced/402505

[coinlocket$]

Source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1470058598197825542

Not over yet.

Mercedes is in the right, FIA did something that was not on rules.


Basically, FIA could let all drivers pass the safety cars or no one they gave the order only to 5 cars.

[Cnut237]

Source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1470058598197825542

Not over yet.

Mercedes is in the right, FIA did something that was not on rules.


Basically, FIA could let all drivers pass the safety cars or no one they gave the order only to 5 cars.

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

Let none overtake, Lewis wins because Max can't catch him.

Let them all overtake, not enough time, race finishes under safety car, Lewis wins.

Contrive a weird situation where you let a few preferred cars go through so you can get Max on new softs directly behind Lewis and enough time for one lap of "racing".. guaranteed Max win.

Basically the situation the officials contrived would always guarantee a Max win. No way in hell Lewis had a chance, and everyone knew it.

[Jackl87]

Source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1470058598197825542

Not over yet.

Mercedes is in the right, FIA did something that was not on rules.


Basically, FIA could let all drivers pass the safety cars or no one they gave the order only to 5 cars.

While i do think that Mercedes is basically in the right here i strongly doubt that this protest will change the outcome of the championship even if Mercedes is proven right with their protest. If FIA would really take back the championship title back from Verstappen now after the race and give it to Hamilton then this would be the worst decision ever and would make the FIA look extremely bad and they would probably lose a lot of fans because of that. I think that Mercedes maybe gets a financial compensation or stuff like that but there won't be a personal penalty for Verstappen because in the end he also did nothing wrong.

[Cnut237]

While i do think that Mercedes is basically in the right here i strongly doubt that this protest will change the outcome of the championship even if Mercedes is proven right with their protest. If FIA would really take back the championship title back from Verstappen now after the race and give it to Hamilton then this would be the worst decision ever and would make the FIA look extremely bad and they would probably lose a lot of fans because of that. I think that Mercedes maybe gets a financial compensation or stuff like that but there won't be a personal penalty for Verstappen because in the end he also did nothing wrong.

The FIA are already doing a great job of making themselves look bad, they can't really make it much worse. Honestly, the difficult positions they've put themselves in over and over this season, and then you thought finally there isn't going to be any dubious rulings here... and they do this! Fitting end to the season I suppose, but they need to show some consistency. There's no other way the decision here can look other than they made up some new rules in order to engineer a win for Max. Why do they put themselves in these positions? Farcical, I'm not surprised Mercedes are livid!

And yes, for the first time in a while, Max did nothing wrong, drove a great race in a car that was clearly second best. He's a superb driver, but whatever happens now the FIA have tainted this championship, and no-one will ever be viewed as a true and deserved winner.

The FIA can't change their decision, but neither can they justify it. I'm sure Verstappen will technically remain the champion, but this isn't a great look for the sport.

Apparently Mercedes have taken a barrister in to see the stewards too! I can see why, but it won't change the result. What are the FIA doing, why do they put themselves in these positions? Really crazy.

[LTU_btc]

Decision with lapped cars is contraversial at least. It's obvious that Masi didn't wanted that race would finish under safety car. But it's not how things should be done. Especially  when he first said that lapped cars won't be allowed to overtake and then change his mind and let overtake only these who are between Lewis and Max. But I doubt that Mercedes protest will be accepted, it would be even more contraversial to change World Champion after race, especially when Max himself haven't done nothing wrong.
About early accident between Lewis and Max, I don't think that Hamilton did something wrong by cutting corner, Max simply pushed him out of track.
Michael Masi is terrible race director, way too many strange decisions from him. I miss times when Chalie Whiting was responsible for these things.
Any, now about things which got less attention. First, how Perez defend position from Hamilton was mazing. BTW, why he had to retire?
With all action in front, not many noticed P3 of Sainz or both Alpha Tauri finished P4 and P5. Amazing.
And not the best way for Raikkonen to retire from F1 Same about Giovinazzi.

[RealMalatesta]

On the first sight it looks like a pretty big gap for Verstappen and that the Red Bull is just as fast or even faster than the Mercedes on this track but i am not so sure if that is true for the race tomorrow. As you already mentioned Verstappen benefited from the slipstream that Perez gave him on the straight and i think this was at least worth 0,1s or even 0,2s. In addition to that, Hamilton can start with the medium tyres tomorrow which gives him a tactical advantage in my opinion. At the start it should be easier for Verstappen because he has more grip right at the beginning but he totally needs to stay ahead of hamilton at the beginning.

We finally have a different champion than a Mercedes driver after 7 years! I am honestly speechless on what has happened, it was a very very difficult race for both racers and to be fair if we are going to talk about unfair decisions then it all starts with that turn 6 with Max getting ahead but Lewis managing to keep his place even when he was 1+ seconds ahead, FIA said that Hamilton gave that advantage back but we all saw with our own eyes that Hamilton was side by side with Max on that turn and then took a short cut and was 1+ second ahead of him.

There were many unfair things for both side and the last unfair thing ended up being in advantage of Max who was smart enough to get soft tires, amazing strategy by Red Bull and I am sorry to all Hamilton fans but you guys got 7 championships with him, let others have at least one championship fun for now.

[Real-Duke]

That was one of the greatest F1 Grand Prix I have ever seen
99% of the race Hamilton is very sure in the lead and it looks like he is going to be the old and new Champion but than in the last round while the FIA makes strange decisions Verstappen overtakes him and wins the Championship! LOL is the only thing I can say

Anyway, Max and Lewis both deserves the Championship but I hope Mercedes protest against the rules will be blocked by the FIA!

[jakdanyel]

What an incredible race it was man! I thought like I was going to have a heart attack in the last lap. There was an incredible competition in the last lap and Verstappen overtook Hamilton superbly. And he defended Hamilton like a lion. And Verstappen became the champion of the 2021 season! There is a lot to talk about this race. Hamilton really deserved the title as he was leading by a very big gap until that safety car. Verstappen's big luck helped him a lot too. Otherwise, Hamilton was going to win the title very comfortably.

[swogerino]

Both Mercedes appeal rejected.What sore losers look like Mercedes when it was all their fault as they didn't put Hamilton in during Safety Car,sure he would have lost a position but the Mercedes engine speed was much higher during the straight so he could have fought with equal means to get the Championship,great guy Hamilton who didn't say anything about this it was a behavior of a true seven times world Champion.Congratulations to Max Verstappen for winning his first F1 World Championship.This race looked to me identical to Brazil 2008 when Hamilton won his first title.

[Cnut237]

What sore losers look like Mercedes when it was all their fault as they didn't put Hamilton in during Safety Car,sure he would have lost a position but the Mercedes engine speed was much higher during the straight so he could have fought with equal means to get the Championship

That argument doesn't make any sense. Mercedes had to keep Hamilton out on track whilst Max was on track, otherwise he surrenders track position in a race that seemed likely to finish under safety car... so a decent chance of finishing second without even getting a chance to push with the better car. But then Max pitted from second place... and with Lewis obviously being in first, he would have to wait a whole lap under safety car before getting back to the pits for his stop, by which time Max would have been ahead. So their only option was to stay out. Not a strategy blunder at all, merely the fact that the driver in second always has the tactical advantage in that situation.

great guy Hamilton who didn't say anything about this it was a behavior of a true seven times world Champion.

Yes, I agree. TBH I was surprised and quite impressed that he managed to remain calm and professional, a younger Hamilton might not have done so. Imagine the histrionics if the situation had been reversed, Max would have been storming about and punching holes in walls. But maybe he will mature a bit in a few years? The age gap is noticeable.

This race looked to me identical to Brazil 2008 when Hamilton won his first title.

No, somewhat different   I suspect it will continue in the courts, and this will get messy and legal. But there is no changing the fact that Max is champion. He didn't do anything wrong here, it's just awful officiating. But I think they have a get-out clause in the 'race director can override any rule' thing, it just doesn't sit well.



But I think this is it and the season is over. On to 2022, and I wonder which car will come out on top? Hopefully it will be closer between the teams and we'll see more overtaking, with a chance for a few different teams to win races, not just the top two. Wouldn't it be great if any team could win a race, and it all came down to who was the best driver?

[swogerino]

I mean he could have got in the same lap as Verstappen did but they kept him out,here was their error losing race and I am afraid the Totto Wolf face after just the race ended maybe reflected just that,they missed the chance,sure they thought let's keep Hamilton out as most probably the race will end under Safety Car but they lost the race because of this,maybe not to blame as you say but this was the crucial point that decided the race,it was a great amount of luck that helped Verstappen but I think the justice for Silverstone has been made today and a few other cases where Hamilton got out without penalties and he did not play that fair in those occasions.Anyway whatever we say now it is history cause Verstappen is world Champion for the first time.

I am no fan of Hamilton and no fan of Verstappen and no fan of any other driver,I am a fan of McLaren and I am a fan of whichever drivers are in McLaren so I am neutral and my judgement is objective and not subjective based on what I saw on the race.

[coinlocket$]

The call from Mercedes has been rejected and now Verstappen according to FIA is the winner.

I don't think it is over yet, Fia did something stupid and Mercedes will probably go legal on this situation.

A lot of money are involved.

[bbc.reporter]

I was one of the active posters in this thread until I stopped watching F1 because it has become very boring. However, I watched the race replay in Abu Dhabi after reading a news update that Max Verstappen has won the championship in this last race.

It appears it was Mick Schumacher who was the reason for the safety car. We should be skeptical of this. He does not want the record of his father to be broken hehehehe.

[Cnut237]

I mean he could have got in the same lap as Verstappen did but they kept him out,here was their error losing race

Not sure why people keep suggesting this, when it's clearly not the case.
If Hamilton pitted first, then Verstappen would have stayed out on fairly fresh tyres, Hamilton would have gambled that the race would have time to restart, and then gamble on being able to pass Max on track.
If Verstappen pitted first, then remember that the Mercedes has to go past the pit lane entrance before Max gets there... so Lewis wouldn't have been able to copy Max's stop until the next lap, by which time Max would have been back out and in the lead.
Basically the only option Mercedes had for winning the race was to stay out on track.

Lewis cannot go in the same lap as Verstappen, unless you mean Lewis goes in first... in which case of course Max stays out. You can only copy what someone else does before you, you can't copy what someone will do after you.

The call from Mercedes has been rejected and now Verstappen according to FIA is the winner.
I don't think it is over yet, Fia did something stupid and Mercedes will probably go legal on this situation.
A lot of money are involved.

Yes, it was inevitable they'd reject it, and equally inevitable Mercedes will make a legal challenge. Masi broke two rules, and set two precedents, firstly that some but not all cars unlap themselves, and secondly that safety car goes in the same lap, not end of the next lap. Apply either of those two rules normally, as they have always been applied before, and the race ends under safety car, and Lewis wins. Basically Masi manipulated it so that the championship would't end under the safety car, and would have Max and Lewis racing wheel to wheel... which given the tyre situation was basically bending the rules to guarantee a Max win, but with normal application of the rules Max would always otherwise be in a losing position. By error or by design, not sure which, Masi ignored the rules and his justification for doing so was basically 'race director can do whatever he wants, regardless of rules'. This is going to get far messier than it already is.