Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[darewaller]

The plan I think is that the new cars generate a lot more downforce from ground-effect, through carefully shaped channels on the base. This means that when they get close behind another car, they still keep most of the downforce, whereas a current car relying on barge boards etc loses a lot when right behind another car.

So in theory, yes, cars should be able to follow more closely without losing downforce... which should lead to better, closer racing, and more overtaking.

But yes, you'd still expect to see Mercedes first, followed by Red Bull. I think a lot of the Mercedes problems this year were due to how the changes affected high-rake and low-rake cars differently, which caught them out... so 2021 gave other teams a chance. Next year they could well be ahead again.

The dirty air thing was the most important part, when cars followed each other there were two different approaches, one is being right behind them, like literally right behind them and that would give you a chance to close up and be ahead in a turn or two, or you would be like maybe one second or more further behind and that would give you dirty air, basically just a car flew right by that place a second ago so you know how it feels as well, and that made cars not have the grip they normally have.

This is one of the reasons why cars are much faster in quali then the race most of the time (along with many other stuff like fuel load). So with these new cars, if you are 1 to 3-4 seconds behind, the car in the front won't slow you down, and you will have a better grip on the car and a better downforce when you turn and all of that equals to cars getting inches closer each second they race.

[coinlocket$]

Small info.

Charles Leclerc will probably change the number of the car from 16 to 7.
Until last month the number 7 was taken for Raikkonen but now after his retirement is a free number again, and 7 is the wanted number from the driver.

[bestcoins1]

Hopefully his health progress will improve. There is a lot of news that he had to retire due to his injury. The 2022 season is still quite long of course Fans hope he can join the start of the race at the beginning of the season.
Of course until now I have not heard the news of Marquez's change so the conclusion is Honda is still waiting for Marquez to recover. Because Hoda knows Marquez still has the potential to win the world championship again.

For now, Honda doesn't want to let Marquez go and there are only rumors that Honda will release Pol Espargaro for the 2023 season by approaching three easy riders like Quartararo, Joan Mir and Jorge Martin to be paired with Marquez later, but that's just a rumor and still going on. not certain although there was a special meeting between Honda and Quartararo in Barcelona.

The 2021 season for MotoGP has indeed ended with a very diverse and varied collection of victories.
So next year, with the addition of five rookies for each independent team or satellite team, who has the chance to get the most wins in the 21 races that will be held by Dorna

Image source: https://www.instagram.com/crashnet_motogp/

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Cnut237]

The dirty air thing was the most important part

Yes, I think so. The current generation of cars generate a lot of their downforce from the way the air moves over the wings, which creates dirty air for the car behind. The big change for 2022 is that a lot of the downforce will now be generated by the air passing underneath the car instead, effectively pulling it down onto the track... which means they don't need to direct airflow over the wings in the same way, and don't need the same type of wings at all... so much less dirty air for the car that is following.

[tokeweed]

I’ve read some stuff saying that with the new specs the air behind the cars are ‘cleaner’ and thus making it easier for the cars behind to over take the cars at front.  So we’ll see...  Ferrari could make it at least close vs Red Bull.  We have just three months to go!  And less than that to see the new cars.  

The plan I think is that the new cars generate a lot more downforce from ground-effect, through carefully shaped channels on the base. This means that when they get close behind another car, they still keep most of the downforce, whereas a current car relying on barge boards etc loses a lot when right behind another car.

So in theory, yes, cars should be able to follow more closely without losing downforce... which should lead to better, closer racing, and more overtaking.

But yes, you'd still expect to see Mercedes first, followed by Red Bull. I think a lot of the Mercedes problems this year were due to how the changes affected high-rake and low-rake cars differently, which caught them out... so 2021 gave other teams a chance. Next year they could well be ahead again.

I think because of the new simpler aerodynamics, the cars will be slower and thus the down force needed by the cars will be less which brings less dirty air at the back of the car.  This will really make it easier for the drivers behind to over take.

But yeah...  That’s the whole idea on paper but let’s see what happens during testing and what the data shows.  I think there’s one guy who’ll be having more problems if it’s easier to over take...  Hamilton. He now has two guys to worry about, Russell and Verstappen.

[beerlover]

The dirty air thing was the most important part

Yes, I think so. The current generation of cars generate a lot of their downforce from the way the air moves over the wings, which creates dirty air for the car behind. The big change for 2022 is that a lot of the downforce will now be generated by the air passing underneath the car instead, effectively pulling it down onto the track... which means they don't need to direct airflow over the wings in the same way, and don't need the same type of wings at all... so much less dirty air for the car that is following.

Which means that if you are following a car, you are going to be not getting slowed down too much. One of the most asked questions by newbies is that they see a car coming up to another one quickly, then having so much hard time overtaking, and they keep asking "why doesn't he drive faster??".

It would be easy to explain it by saying "because that's max the car can go at that place at that time" and not really care about it, but there are many reasons like safety (not driving dangerously), dirty air, max pace on corners, downforce and many other things. This will in fact make it easier to overtake, and I do not know if there will be more, but I bet that whoever is the overtaking champion next year, it is going to be someone with more overtaking than this year for sure. That's literally why this car was designed this way, so it shouldn't be that shocking.

[coinlocket$]

Rumor, Mercedes next year will be back in his color.

They will be the Silver Arrows again.

Source (in Italian) https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-team/mercedes-tornera-freccia-argento-nel-2022-599197.html

[blue Snow]

Hopefully his health progress will improve. There is a lot of news that he had to retire due to his injury. The 2022 season is still quite long of course Fans hope he can join the start of the race at the beginning of the season.
Of course until now I have not heard the news of Marquez's change so the conclusion is Honda is still waiting for Marquez to recover. Because Hoda knows Marquez still has the potential to win the world championship again.

For now, Honda doesn't want to let Marquez go and there are only rumors that Honda will release Pol Espargaro for the 2023 season by approaching three easy riders like Quartararo, Joan Mir and Jorge Martin to be paired with Marquez later, but that's just a rumor and still going on. not certain although there was a special meeting between Honda and Quartararo in Barcelona.

On another side, Honda without Marquez can give the challenge new talent, as we know Honda is very focusing on what Marquez wants, which give the other honda race too difficult to follow the modification. But it's too much time if Marquez really retiring to another race development his self. For now, Honda still needs Marquez, but if possible they can recruit new racers like Quartararo or Joan mir.

[Juggy777]

I’ve read some stuff saying that with the new specs the air behind the cars are ‘cleaner’ and thus making it easier for the cars behind to over take the cars at front.  So we’ll see...  Ferrari could make it at least close vs Red Bull.  We have just three months to go!  And less than that to see the new cars.  

The plan I think is that the new cars generate a lot more downforce from ground-effect, through carefully shaped channels on the base. This means that when they get close behind another car, they still keep most of the downforce, whereas a current car relying on barge boards etc loses a lot when right behind another car.

So in theory, yes, cars should be able to follow more closely without losing downforce... which should lead to better, closer racing, and more overtaking.

But yes, you'd still expect to see Mercedes first, followed by Red Bull. I think a lot of the Mercedes problems this year were due to how the changes affected high-rake and low-rake cars differently, which caught them out... so 2021 gave other teams a chance. Next year they could well be ahead again.

I think because of the new simpler aerodynamics, the cars will be slower and thus the down force needed by the cars will be less which brings less dirty air at the back of the car.  This will really make it easier for the drivers behind to over take.

But yeah...  That’s the whole idea on paper but let’s see what happens during testing and what the data shows.  I think there’s one guy who’ll be having more problems if it’s easier to over take...  Hamilton. He now has two guys to worry about, Russell and Verstappen.

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races. Also I’m eagerly waiting for Max to take on Hamilton again, but this time he will find it even harder and that’ll make these races even more interesting to watch.

[doomloop]

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races. Also I’m eagerly waiting for Max to take on Hamilton again, but this time he will find it even harder and that’ll make these races even more interesting to watch.

By the looks of what Binotto is saying, they may not be at the top like they imagined. This is going to be harder for teams at the mid table levels because it doesn't look like anyone would be close enough to Hamilton or Max to matter an overtaking or dirty air situation. Let's face it we have seen them beating people with 10+ seconds to closest and even as high as 40-50+ seconds easily to other teams.

So, overtaking becoming easier is not really that much of a problem for them. On the other hand since they are already faster, they could pit earlier, and overtake everyone quicker which would help them not be in traffic as well which is cool for Mercedes and red bull. This will only hurt Ferrari if you ask me, they were never good enough to catch the top two, but now they are going to have even a bigger tail and that may end up with bad results for them if they get overtaken easier.

[Cnut237]

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races.

I think they've all been doing this. I remember in 2020 Mercedes stopping development halfway through the season to work on the future car for what were then the new 2021 regulations, before it all got put back a year.
TBH I would be very surprised to see Ferrari leading the pack. Even if they somehow manage to build a car that's as good as a Merc or a Red Bull, Max and Lewis would still be someway down the road, as Ferrari don't have the drivers to challenge.

[Jackl87]

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races.

I think they've all been doing this. I remember in 2020 Mercedes stopping development halfway through the season to work on the future car for what were then the new 2021 regulations, before it all got put back a year.
TBH I would be very surprised to see Ferrari leading the pack. Even if they somehow manage to build a car that's as good as a Merc or a Red Bull, Max and Lewis would still be someway down the road, as Ferrari don't have the drivers to challenge.

Even though i think that we might see some surprises in the next season in terms of the ranking of the teams i still don't see that there will be such a major shake up. If i had to bet then i would still go for Mercedes as the strongest team for the next season. They just have the most resources, even though there is a cap on spending in theory. I think that almost every team already invested heavily into the next season in terms of money and also time since before the start of the last season and also while it was ongoing. So i don't really think that Ferrari has a big advantage here as basically every team did the same as them. Haas even used the exact same car as the year before because they solely focused on the 2022 season.

[bestcoins1]

On another side, Honda without Marquez can give the challenge new talent, as we know Honda is very focusing on what Marquez wants, which give the other honda race too difficult to follow the modification. But it's too much time if Marquez really retiring to another race development his self. For now, Honda still needs Marquez, but if possible they can recruit new racers like Quartararo or Joan mir.

Honda without Marquez seems to be very weak, everyone can see this last year (2021) where Honda only won 3 times through Marquez and even the other riders at Honda couldn't do much, so it's very natural for a team like Honda still wants a Marquez and also a tandem like Quartararo or Joan Mir.

[tokeweed]

Rumor, Mercedes next year will be back in his color.

They will be the Silver Arrows again.

Source (in Italian) https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-team/mercedes-tornera-freccia-argento-nel-2022-599197.html

Nice!  Ah yes!  The Silver Arrows, Hamilton and Russell.  It’s going to be reminiscent of Hamilton and Rosberg.    I’m starting to think Hamilton will never break Schumacher’s record.  If the last season was tough for Hamilton, 2022 is going to be tougher.  IMHO.

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races.

I think they've all been doing this. I remember in 2020 Mercedes stopping development halfway through the season to work on the future car for what were then the new 2021 regulations, before it all got put back a year.
TBH I would be very surprised to see Ferrari leading the pack. Even if they somehow manage to build a car that's as good as a Merc or a Red Bull, Max and Lewis would still be someway down the road, as Ferrari don't have the drivers to challenge.

Yup.  Unless the engine change happens, it’s going to be Mercedes and Red Bull going at it.  There could even be an argument made that Adrian Newey could surprise everybody with the simpler design of the 2022 cars.  Value could be for Verstappen and Red Bull in the outright market.

[laurenB7742]

I believe with all the changes Ferrari keeps saying they’re making they’ll be one of the contenders to win the title next season, because they gave up on 2021 races to work on 2022 races.

I think they've all been doing this. I remember in 2020 Mercedes stopping development halfway through the season to work on the future car for what were then the new 2021 regulations, before it all got put back a year.
TBH I would be very surprised to see Ferrari leading the pack. Even if they somehow manage to build a car that's as good as a Merc or a Red Bull, Max and Lewis would still be someway down the road, as Ferrari don't have the drivers to challenge.

Even though i think that we might see some surprises in the next season in terms of the ranking of the teams i still don't see that there will be such a major shake up. If i had to bet then i would still go for Mercedes as the strongest team for the next season. They just have the most resources, even though there is a cap on spending in theory. I think that almost every team already invested heavily into the next season in terms of money and also time since before the start of the last season and also while it was ongoing. So i don't really think that Ferrari has a big advantage here as basically every team did the same as them. Haas even used the exact same car as the year before because they solely focused on the 2022 season.

I agree with you. I feel like Merc are still the powerhouse going into this year. But I am eager to see how much Ferrari can improve after their shakeup.

If we can have another major racing org alongside Merc and Red Bull, that would be fascinating. But this seems highly unlikely. Because even if Ferrari manages to get a good enough car, they lack a driver like Hamilton or Max.

But I would hope that Ferrari will bring better placements compared to last year.

[sana54210]

Even though i think that we might see some surprises in the next season in terms of the ranking of the teams i still don't see that there will be such a major shake up. If i had to bet then i would still go for Mercedes as the strongest team for the next season. They just have the most resources, even though there is a cap on spending in theory. I think that almost every team already invested heavily into the next season in terms of money and also time since before the start of the last season and also while it was ongoing. So i don't really think that Ferrari has a big advantage here as basically every team did the same as them. Haas even used the exact same car as the year before because they solely focused on the 2022 season.

I agree with you. I feel like Merc are still the powerhouse going into this year. But I am eager to see how much Ferrari can improve after their shakeup.

If we can have another major racing org alongside Merc and Red Bull, that would be fascinating. But this seems highly unlikely. Because even if Ferrari manages to get a good enough car, they lack a driver like Hamilton or Max.

But I would hope that Ferrari will bring better placements compared to last year.

Lerlerc is good enough to fight against those two, not because he is a superstar like Max or a GOAT level driver like Hamilton but because he has the courage to do so and he knows how things work, Lando is the same in that regard. There is this "driver gene" in some people and they know what they have to do and when they have to do it so sometimes we see these people come up and be awesome. Right now, with the "new" generation we have max, charles, lando, russell being easily the four horseman of the future and I feel like we are going to see them dominate the future for sure, even if not all of them wins a championship, they will always be "there".

I am fine with 2 vs 2 by the way, like mercedes vs red bull, and along that ferrari vs mclaren which makes it fun to watch those places as well. At least it is not "clear" who will be third team, it may change at any given race.

[Koal-84]

Small info.

Charles Leclerc will probably change the number of the car from 16 to 7.
Until last month the number 7 was taken for Raikkonen but now after his retirement is a free number again, and 7 is the wanted number from the driver.

Do you know why Leclerc wants to change the number? Did he have the number 7 in other racing series or is there no real reason why he wants to change the number?

Rumor, Mercedes next year will be back in his color.

They will be the Silver Arrows again.

Source (in Italian) https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-team/mercedes-tornera-freccia-argento-nel-2022-599197.html

I think it's good that Mercedes has a silver car again next year, silver arrows have nostalgia, but could it really mean that Hamilton is retiring?

[coinlocket$]

Do you know why Leclerc wants to change the number? Did he have the number 7 in other racing series or is there no real reason why he wants to change the number?

It is his lucky number
He wanted the number 7 in F1 but was already taken from Kimi.
He wanted the number 10 too but was taken from Gasly.

Then he went to 16 because according to him 1+6=7 (his lucky number) and it's the date of his birthday.

[Koal-84]

Marc Marquez will continue to undergo periodic reviews with Dr. Sánchez Dalmau during the coming weeks alongside the conservative treatment plan. The situation does not prevent the rider from Cervera from continuing his physical training plan to prepare himself physically for a new season.

Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CXx8DbVptmh/

Hopefully his health progress will improve. There is a lot of news that he had to retire due to his injury. The 2022 season is still quite long of course Fans hope he can join the start of the race at the beginning of the season.
Of course until now I have not heard the news of Marquez's change so the conclusion is Honda is still waiting for Marquez to recover. Because Hoda knows Marquez still has the potential to win the world championship again.

Honda didn't do themselves any favours by developing and only focusing on Marc Marquez, the bike is very difficult to ride and as vut as no rider other than Marquez gets to ride the Honda well, not even Marquez when he is not 100% fit.

Do you know why Leclerc wants to change the number? Did he have the number 7 in other racing series or is there no real reason why he wants to change the number?

It is his lucky number
He wanted the number 7 in F1 but was already taken from Kimi.
He wanted the number 10 too but was taken from Gasly.

Then he went to 16 because according to him 1+6=7 (his lucky number) and it's the date of his birthday.

Thanks for the explanation, I didn't know that, but now it is understandable.

[AakZaki]

~snip~

The 2021 season for MotoGP has indeed ended with a very diverse and varied collection of victories.
So next year, with the addition of five rookies for each independent team or satellite team, who has the chance to get the most wins in the 21 races that will be held by Dorna

There were a lot of surprises in this two-year race. Competition in racing is not dominated by one or two riders only. There are a lot of surprises in every race and it's very exciting. It was very different during the marquez and valentino rossi era. Gamblers may have a little trouble guessing. But Yamaha dominance, Ducati is still the favorite bike champion even with different riders. Honda, suzuki and KTM in the next order they are not as good as Yamaha and Ducati. But with this year's performance, it's a warning to the championship team, Ducati, KTM, Honda, and Suzuki continue to grow they continue to improve the bike.