Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[sana54210]

Don't know about you guys but I'm still upset about Abu Dhabi. It's fortunate that the FIA/Masi is at fault and not RBR/Verstappen or I would have trouble continuing to watch. Clearly the FIA/Masi know they screwed up and won't do that again.

This is the important part that fans need to relax about. I have seen so much hatred towards Max and calling his championship fake and all that while Mercedes haters or hamilton haters kept saying he had the best car by few seconds easily for many years when he won so his championships are fake and arguments ensued.

The reality is that Max and Hamilton both had a great season, Max still was one lap close to Hamilton enough to get that championship due to a bad decision by FIA, if you think that Abu Dhabi was a wrong decision and that doesn't make his championship count, then remind yourself this guy didn't get 300 points on the last lap, he was amazing for whole year, he won so many races, and he managed to get into the last race with the exact same point, so maybe FIA made a bad decision, but at the end of the day we are talking about two great racers and they both deserved it and there are no fake winners or something like that, they are both amazing and we are lucky to watch both of them.

[aesma]

Don't know about you guys but I'm still upset about Abu Dhabi. It's fortunate that the FIA/Masi is at fault and not RBR/Verstappen or I would have trouble continuing to watch. Clearly the FIA/Masi know they screwed up and won't do that again.

Yes, I'm still not happy with it. I don't see how anyone can be happy with it, really. Even Verstappen, who for many people isn't really the world champion, as it was given to him instead of him winning it.
As for whether they'll do it again, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. It does cast a long shadow over the 2022 season, if everyone knows that the officials can ignore the rules whenever they feel like it generates more entertainment... when the fairness is taken away, it's when a sport stops being a sport.

There is always money in big sports.

Where F1 is rather unique, and it hasn't always been the case but it is now, is that the main teams are backed by powerful companies. Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, Red Bull, they make a lot of money, with or without F1. So F1 has to be careful to not upset these companies too much. And of course, take care of the fans too. It's already dodgy to compete in some countries where nobody cares about F1...

[alegotardo]

Work in progress from SPA, I like to say almost done 

I swore they were modifying the original corners of the circuit, but only after I got a better look....it's just a widening of the exhaust areas.

Where F1 is rather unique, and it hasn't always been the case but it is now, is that the main teams are backed by powerful companies. Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, Red Bull, they make a lot of money, with or without F1. So F1 has to be careful to not upset these companies too much. And of course, take care of the fans too. It's already dodgy to compete in some countries where nobody cares about F1...

But who is in charge of F1? It's precisely these big companies, don't doubt that.
They set the rules for next season and have a lot of influence over decisions that need to be made in the course of them.
Money rules in sports these days, and in F1 this is much more evident.

[swogerino]

Don't know about you guys but I'm still upset about Abu Dhabi. It's fortunate that the FIA/Masi is at fault and not RBR/Verstappen or I would have trouble continuing to watch. Clearly the FIA/Masi know they screwed up and won't do that again.

This is the important part that fans need to relax about. I have seen so much hatred towards Max and calling his championship fake and all that while Mercedes haters or hamilton haters kept saying he had the best car by few seconds easily for many years when he won so his championships are fake and arguments ensued.

The reality is that Max and Hamilton both had a great season, Max still was one lap close to Hamilton enough to get that championship due to a bad decision by FIA, if you think that Abu Dhabi was a wrong decision and that doesn't make his championship count, then remind yourself this guy didn't get 300 points on the last lap, he was amazing for whole year, he won so many races, and he managed to get into the last race with the exact same point, so maybe FIA made a bad decision, but at the end of the day we are talking about two great racers and they both deserved it and there are no fake winners or something like that, they are both amazing and we are lucky to watch both of them.

I think whatever we call it,bad decision or not now the Champion for the year 2021 was crowned Verstappen.After some years will pass no one will remember how controversial was his Championship win,you said it right,he was there even if FIA made a bad call.I am personally fan of neither of these drivers so I am saying objectively that Verstappen deserved it more and he would have won the Championship if he was not taken out from Hamilton in Silverstone and the FIA did not punish Hamilton at all or they punished him very little,that was a decisive move and after that Mercedes gave Hamilton the best car,if Verstappen was not thrown out by Hamilton he would have won the Championship bad call or not from FIA.I agree FIA has made a lot of bad decisions this year but in the end the Championship was won by the driver who deserved it more.

[tokeweed]

Carlos Sainz who has his contract expiring at the end of this season is now rumored for an extension of his contract maybe even before the start of the new season.

For sure I think it is deserved he did great for his 1st year.

Yup, esp after Sainz was outperforming Leclerc, their main guy.  Lol.  Now it looks like the team won’t give LecLerc any favors judging from their recent statement.

I wish there was a betting market for who finishes higher in points for the season...  Betting on Sainz against LecLerc and Gasly against Vettel would be value imho.

Here’s the betting market for the outrights for 2022 season.

https://stake.com/sports/outright/formula-1/formula-1/formula-1-2022/42369455-formula-1-2022

And just wondering...  Of Vettel, what do you think his season be with the new cars?  He won for most overtakes last season and with these new cars making it easy to overtake, maybe we see some value for him in finishing top 6 or top 10, depending on his quali results.  What do you guys think?

[boltz]

Williams just reveled a peak of their F1 2022 car and I must say that it looks amazing. The shapes that this car have right now are looking more futuristic than the previous years so let's hope the save and speed will be there as well. Regarding weight and height ...I would have thought that the car will be smaller than they presented to us but in the end the difference is not so big.

[Luzin]

Work in progress from SPA, I like to say almost done 

It looks so beautiful, it's in the middle of a fir tree. What is the name of this circuit? Is this just a Formula 1 race? I hope to be able to for MotoGP as well, although I know the new circuit that is in the calendar that appears in MotoGP is only Mandalika. Or maybe for next season again.  Maybe you can add picture details to this circuit friend, because I'm quite curious about this. It looks so beautiful and cool.

[Minor Miner]

Work in progress from SPA, I like to say almost done 

It looks so beautiful, it's in the middle of a fir tree. What is the name of this circuit? Is this just a Formula 1 race? I hope to be able to for MotoGP as well, although I know the new circuit that is in the calendar that appears in MotoGP is only Mandalika. Or maybe for next season again.  Maybe you can add picture details to this circuit friend, because I'm quite curious about this. It looks so beautiful and cool.

Williams' 2022 car looks fantastic as per the looks. 
Seems like it will have better aerodynamics compared to the one they had in the last year. You know, If they can get the weight around a good level, maybe this will be one of my favorite cars going into 2022 . Seems like Williams is investing good enough into the car, only time will tell how well it performs.

[ILuckyGuyI]

I'm really excited about the new season in F1. As the teams continue to reveal the look of their new car, I'm getting more hyped about it. And in the next season, I hope to see different teams involved in the title race also. It looks like Mercedes and Red Bull can still be very powerful. But it is doubtful whether they will have the same power difference with the rest of the teams. Especially Ferrari have improved their car a lot so far as it seems. I'd really love to see them in the competition also. Ferrari should be able to achieve better than this.

It will be a pleasure to the eyes if Ferrari can join Merc and Red Bull to compete for the first place. 6 drivers competing for edge to edge will be a pleasure to watch for sure.
This new season looks quite promising in my eyes. Although Leclerc is not on the same level as Hamilton or Max, but it sure will be a great competition if Ferrari's upgrade is right on point. Eager to see the next race.

Ferrari stated that they were restricted about developing their car because of some rules in the season we've just left behind. They couldn't develop their car much because of that. And we watched them struggle in most of the season. They started getting better in the last races. But we will see them having the real developments for the next season. Ferrari drivers also seem to be candidates for the title next season. And I wonder which of their drivers will be one step ahead. Leclerc or Sainz? The previous season was better for Sainz. But in the next season, I think Leclerc can race much harder than him and be in the competition for the title.

[el kaka22]

There is always money in big sports.

Where F1 is rather unique, and it hasn't always been the case but it is now, is that the main teams are backed by powerful companies. Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari, Red Bull, they make a lot of money, with or without F1. So F1 has to be careful to not upset these companies too much. And of course, take care of the fans too. It's already dodgy to compete in some countries where nobody cares about F1...

That's the thing about F1, they have a lot more money and somehow they are getting a lot more attention and marketing from all of these companies as well, whoever enters F1 ends up promoting it basically. Look at indycar series, we are talking about something that has all cars nearly equal if I am not wrong, it may or may not be stock cars for all teams but at least it is equal which means that the race never gets decided on which team has the better car but only which driver is better and some strategy and changing some other small stuff like air in tires or wing height etc etc, or even just pure luck basically.

This is why I believe that we should check that out if we are f1 fans and see what would happen if we gave drivers all the same cars. I am 100% certain Hamilton wouldn't have 7 championships for sure, there is NO way he gets 7 titles if he was on equal cars with people, he is good but not THAT good without having a dominating car under him.

[bestcoins1]

Managing Director of Yamaha MotoGP, Lin Jarvis, said that his team owes a lot to Valentino Rossi after successfully restoring past victories.
Rossi joined Yamaha in 2004 after making the big decision to leave Honda which brought him the world title.

This was done because The Doctor was disappointed with Honda's statement which said the success of a racer was due to a motorcycle that performed well.
Moving to Yamaha made Valentino Rossi get a lot of criticism and not sure he can repeat what he did at Honda.
The reason, at that time Yamaha was in a slump, even almost out of MotoGP due to never winning.

However, the joining of the Italian man became a turning point for Yamaha to fight for the world title.
This is what makes Yamaha feel always indebted to Rossi, so that it continues to give the 42-year-old man a chance to fight for his goals.

“As for the others, the end of a glorious era. This is one of the unique sports icons," said Jarvis as reported by Motosan.

But for every icon, the end of his career will surely come. He is the one who made us win again in MotoGP.

"He gave us confidence as a manufacturer and as a brand that we could win. So we owe him a lot. As we said, it's been an amazing journey."

Source: Motorsport.com
Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/CYdIrwLJGvk/

[Cnut237]

And just wondering...  Of Vettel, what do you think his season be with the new cars?  He won for most overtakes last season and with these new cars making it easy to overtake, maybe we see some value for him in finishing top 6 or top 10, depending on his quali results.  What do you guys think?

We've had discussions about Vettel before, and I still think he's over-rated. Does most overtakes mean that someone is a good driver? What if it just means that they are awful in qualifying, and they are driving a car that should always start much further up the grid, so come race time they get a load of overtakes on cars that are significantly worse, but can't really overtake anyone in a car that is the same or better?

Perez managed a lot more overtakes in 2021 than Verstappen did, driving the same car. This is not because Perez is better, but is actually because he's worse, and so starts further back.


Whenever I look for the overtakes list, it only ever shows the top few drivers. Do you have a link to a full list covering all drivers? I'm interested in checking because I have a suspicion that Bottas managed zero overtakes all season.

[CryptoBuds]

And just wondering...  Of Vettel, what do you think his season be with the new cars?  He won for most overtakes last season and with these new cars making it easy to overtake, maybe we see some value for him in finishing top 6 or top 10, depending on his quali results.  What do you guys think?

We've had discussions about Vettel before, and I still think he's over-rated. Does most overtakes mean that someone is a good driver? What if it just means that they are awful in qualifying, and they are driving a car that should always start much further up the grid, so come race time they get a load of overtakes on cars that are significantly worse, but can't really overtake anyone in a car that is the same or better?
Perez managed a lot more overtakes in 2021 than Verstappen did, driving the same car. This is not because Perez is better, but is actually because he's worse, and so starts further back.
Whenever I look for the overtakes list, it only ever shows the top few drivers. Do you have a link to a full list covering all drivers? I'm interested in checking because I have a suspicion that Bottas managed zero overtakes all season.

^ Making a lot of or the most overtakes is not the standard for a good driver. It could be a stat that's on the papers, but it in no way indicates that he is the best or one of the better drivers.
I wouldn't say that he's overrated but I think he still has room for improvement. With the better car, he will get, maybe his results will get a bit better but we need to give him time to show if he's good enough.

[tokeweed]

^  If Aston Martin had a car even capable of going further up the grid and Vettel is really as awful as you’re saying, don’t you think Stroll should be out performing him at every racing weekend?  I don’t think so...  Both drivers would’ve at least got their cars further up the grid.  And it’s not even open for debate.  Lol.  Aston Martin really did have a worse car than their Racing Point, Force India days.

And since you’ve made a point with Perez, Alonso starts further back too and he had less overtakes than Vettel in the Alpine which is def a better car than the Aston Martin.  Just saying...  

[sana54210]

Ferrari stated that they were restricted about developing their car because of some rules in the season we've just left behind. They couldn't develop their car much because of that. And we watched them struggle in most of the season. They started getting better in the last races. But we will see them having the real developments for the next season. Ferrari drivers also seem to be candidates for the title next season. And I wonder which of their drivers will be one step ahead. Leclerc or Sainz? The previous season was better for Sainz. But in the next season, I think Leclerc can race much harder than him and be in the competition for the title.

It is not just limited to ferrari, they are the ones that get one of the highest amount of share from the prize even when they do not win they get that extra payment from F1 to just stay, and it makes sense because they have so many fans even when they do not win, which makes it worthy for F1 to pay that much to keep them racing. However, there are limitations on how much you can improve next seasons car, you can't just go out there and spend a billion dollars on next year's car and race with stock car this season, that will not be tolerated for any team in the league.

Most low level teams do not have much to spend anyway so they struggle, and teams like Mercedes, red bull and Ferrari all spend their cap on next season to be as fast as possible. The moment you realize at the start of the season you are good enough to fight for a title, you end up not spending for next season and put it all on this season for a chance to win, that is what Red Bull did for example if I am not wrong, if you think season is done then you just focus on next season.

[emrecemsan]

I don't know what other people think about this. But I think that Alpine and Aston Martin still haven't shown their actual performance and potential. As far as I know, they were one of the teams which were limited due to some restrictions of the season. Aston Martin are building their place from scratch these days by the way. We might see these two teams much stronger in the next season. And we already know that Fernando Alonso wanted a powerful car from his team. I'm just looking forward to watching the races in the coming season.

[Republikcoin.com]

Former MotoGP racer Danilo Petrucci made history when he won stage five of the 2022 Dakar Rally.
Danilo Petrucci became the first former MotoGP racer to successfully win one of the Dakar Rally stages.

The victory was recorded by Danilo Petrucci in the competition which took place in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Thursday (6/1/2022).

Petrucci actually finished in second place.
He finished the race four minutes behind Toby Price after nearly falling over avoiding a camel.
However, Price's six-minute penalty took Petrucci up one place as stage winner.

The Tech3 KTM racer couldn't hide his happiness.

"I cried like a baby. I can't write a single word," wrote Petrucci, who is known for his humor, on social media accounts.

Source: https://www.bolasport.com/

[CryptoBuds]

If Aston Martin had a car even capable of going further up the grid and Vettel is really as awful as you’re saying, don’t you think Stroll should be out performing him at every racing weekend?  I don’t think so...  Both drivers would’ve at least got their cars further up the grid.  And it’s not even open for debate.  Lol.  Aston Martin really did have a worse car than their Racing Point, Force India days.

And since you’ve made a point with Perez, Alonso starts further back too and he had less overtakes than Vettel in the Alpine which is def a better car than the Aston Martin.  Just saying...  

^ Yes, you are right on those stats but overtakes are only one factor that determines how good a driver is. There are a lot of variables working on and off the track that are important too.
For example, pitting, team-calls, and also consistency and temperament are also very important factor that defines a driver. I'm not saying that overtake stats is totally irrelevant, but in order to justify how good a driver is, a lot of variables should also be taken under consideration.

[Koal-84]

Former MotoGP racer Danilo Petrucci made history when he won stage five of the 2022 Dakar Rally.
Danilo Petrucci became the first former MotoGP racer to successfully win one of the Dakar Rally stages.

The victory was recorded by Danilo Petrucci in the competition which took place in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Thursday (6/1/2022).

Petrucci actually finished in second place.
He finished the race four minutes behind Toby Price after nearly falling over avoiding a camel.
However, Price's six-minute penalty took Petrucci up one place as stage winner.

The Tech3 KTM racer couldn't hide his happiness.

"I cried like a baby. I can't write a single word," wrote Petrucci, who is known for his humor, on social media accounts.

Source: https://www.bolasport.com/

At the beginning it looked like it was just a promotion and marketing gag but now you see how fit the MotoGP riders have to be and are. The Dakar is probably the hardest race in the world and Petrucci is riding at the front, which is unbelievable and also confirms Petrucci's talent. Great respect to Petrucci for winning an etape as a Dakar rookie.

[justdimin]

If Aston Martin had a car even capable of going further up the grid and Vettel is really as awful as you’re saying, don’t you think Stroll should be out performing him at every racing weekend?  I don’t think so...  Both drivers would’ve at least got their cars further up the grid.  And it’s not even open for debate.  Lol.  Aston Martin really did have a worse car than their Racing Point, Force India days.

And since you’ve made a point with Perez, Alonso starts further back too and he had less overtakes than Vettel in the Alpine which is def a better car than the Aston Martin.  Just saying...  

^ Yes, you are right on those stats but overtakes are only one factor that determines how good a driver is. There are a lot of variables working on and off the track that are important too.
For example, pitting, team-calls, and also consistency and temperament are also very important factor that defines a driver. I'm not saying that overtake stats is totally irrelevant, but in order to justify how good a driver is, a lot of variables should also be taken under consideration.

Are we discussing over if 4 time F1 champion (all back to back) is good or not? I mean for the past 60 years or so, there has been only 2 people who have managed to get that achievement, Hamilton and Schumi.

I get that Vettel had some problems with some of the teams after that, which is totally understandable but that was literally the years where Mercedes just dominated the league so much that at one point they were averaging 30+ seconds to closest other team.

Sure Vettel had that one year, but aside from that it was usually not that easy for him to beat Mercedes, even if Mazepin drove Mercedes I say Vettel wins maybe 1-2 championship at the very most, that car was THAT good, hopefully it changes this year. He may not look like much right now to many newbies but he is one of the best driver in the F1 history, definitely top 10 in the history, some may even say top 5, but top 10 is definite.