Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[wmaurik]

The German Grand Prix has proved that Honda doesn't get any points through its four riders and that was also the case with Honda (40 years ago) at the 1982 French Grand Prix. It was a very bad achievement for the Honda manufacturer because for the last 12 years the Honda manufacturer has always won the German Grand Prix which was won by Marc Marquez on average and three of them by Dani Pedrosa since 2010. But for this year Honda has really slumped with his achievement was because their drivers could not bring home points at the German Grand Prix.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/06/20/honda-record-no-points-for-first-time-in-40-years/426938

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[Davidvictorson]

MotoGP is getting here and not exciting, not because of the retirement of vr46 or marq's injury, but less exciting, less exciting, less exciting overtaking, less exciting now that WSBK is an exciting spectacle for the souls of a race full of battles. One the other hand, It sucks that Ducati riders can't take advantage of the opportunities with the most teams. Even though Marc is absent.

[Republikcoin.com]

MotoGP is getting here and not exciting, not because of the retirement of vr46 or marq's injury, but less exciting, less exciting, less exciting overtaking, less exciting now that WSBK is an exciting spectacle for the souls of a race full of battles. One the other hand, It sucks that Ducati riders can't take advantage of the opportunities with the most teams. Even though Marc is absent.

The retirement of a living legend, Valentino Rossi, has reduced the number of spectators at Mugello (according to the news that I read in local media gpzone.id) and Dorna feels a little disappointed with this because the organizers of MotoGP basically also want to make MotoGP more exciting than the event. Because of that WSBK was also organized by Dorna so that in the past few days Dorna has made a survey form for everyone for the sake of new things that might be changed by Dorna for a better future for MotoGP.
Survey Link: https://global-motogp-fan-survey-2022.motorsportnetwork.com/survey

[swogerino]

The German Grand Prix has proved that Honda doesn't get any points through its four riders and that was also the case with Honda (40 years ago) at the 1982 French Grand Prix. It was a very bad achievement for the Honda manufacturer because for the last 12 years the Honda manufacturer has always won the German Grand Prix which was won by Marc Marquez on average and three of them by Dani Pedrosa since 2010. But for this year Honda has really slumped with his achievement was because their drivers could not bring home points at the German Grand Prix.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2022/06/20/honda-record-no-points-for-first-time-in-40-years/426938

That is a really bad result for Honda.However they have been dominating this sport for so long with some years being beaten by Yamaha and sometimes from Ducati but overall Honda has dominated here at least from 2002 which I first saw MotoGP and those great battles between Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi were some of the best duels I have seen in the MotoGP.In fact after Biaggi retired when he was beaten by Rossi even though he was riding a Honda and Rossi not everything was not as it was and never again I saw such duels with Rossi and other riders.Hopefully this will change.

[judas]

The British GP is going to be a lot of fun hopefully. Hamilton has dominated this GP for a long time but this time can be very different than those times. Hamilton won this GP eight times and won it in the last three seasons too. Now Mercedes have a really problematic car and there is no way Hamilton is winning this GP again. I mean that he will need to have a very lucky race in which Red Bull and Ferrari struggle a lot. I don't think that both of these teams would experience this. I'm favouring Leclerc to win this time but his job is going to be very hard against Verstappen.

[lixer]

I did not see any improvement from the Mercedes especially in this track full of straights where usually the Mercedes engine excels in.It did not do so in this race,they only got to the podium and 4th because of Leclerc starting 19th and Perez having a power engine failure otherwise they would be 5th and 6th which in this season seems like their natural habitat.I am starting to doubt now Totto Wolf words before the beginning of this season when he said near Silverstone or after Silverstone we should start to fight for a win,we are now near Silverstone and I have not seen any fight for the win nor I predict one.

I mean they are failing to fix that bouncing problem, and that is the main reason why they are not at the top anymore. If they race with 100% and go full blast then the car bounces a lot and they stop being fast, when it goes down because of the wind, it should stay low, but it bounces back and slows them down.

He assumed that they would fix this by the time Silverstone came, but they haven't so far, maybe they will until that race, but when they do, they will definitely be close to the top even more, not saying that they will win anything or not, maybe a few races but Max is already 2 wins ahead of Charles, so I am assuming that Perez would be a bigger risk to Max this year than any racer from any other team, even if they end up winning a few times.

[Koal-84]

I mean they are failing to fix that bouncing problem, and that is the main reason why they are not at the top anymore. If they race with 100% and go full blast then the car bounces a lot and they stop being fast, when it goes down because of the wind, it should stay low, but it bounces back and slows them down.

He assumed that they would fix this by the time Silverstone came, but they haven't so far, maybe they will until that race, but when they do, they will definitely be close to the top even more, not saying that they will win anything or not, maybe a few races but Max is already 2 wins ahead of Charles, so I am assuming that Perez would be a bigger risk to Max this year than any racer from any other team, even if they end up winning a few times.

In an interview Toto Wolf said that Mercedes has not written off the championship yet, they will probably get the bouncing problem under control/understand it better in the next races I would say and the Mercedes is currently the most reliable car in the field. There will be several more penalties and retirements for Ferrari and RedBull and Mercedes will keep scoring points.

Here is Wolf's statement in German.

https://www.formel1.de/news/news/2022-05-19/formel-1-liveticker-mercedes-hat-wm-noch-nicht-abgeschrieben

[Cnut237]

In an interview Toto Wolf said that Mercedes has not written off the championship yet, they will probably get the bouncing problem under control/understand it better in the next races I would say and the Mercedes is currently the most reliable car in the field. There will be several more penalties and retirements for Ferrari and RedBull and Mercedes will keep scoring points.

I think this is just talk, there's next to zero chance of Mercedes challenging for the title this year.

Most races follow the same pattern, Leclerc takes pole, Verstappen just behind him. Verstappen in the faster race-distance car overtakes Leclerc and wins. Leclerc takes second or retires the car. Perez and Sainz bumble about lower down the order, in cars that should finish 3rd and 4th every race... Mercedes are ultra-reliable but slow, and finish 5th/6th unless Ferrari have issues or Perez/Sainz perform badly... in which case the Mercs can move up a couple of places.

But there's no chance of Merc winning a race unless both Verstappen and Leclerc retire their cars.

[Koal-84]

I think this is just talk, there's next to zero chance of Mercedes challenging for the title this year.

Most races follow the same pattern, Leclerc takes pole, Verstappen just behind him. Verstappen in the faster race-distance car overtakes Leclerc and wins. Leclerc takes second or retires the car. Perez and Sainz bumble about lower down the order, in cars that should finish 3rd and 4th every race... Mercedes are ultra-reliable but slow, and finish 5th/6th unless Ferrari have issues or Perez/Sainz perform badly... in which case the Mercs can move up a couple of places.

But there's no chance of Merc winning a race unless both Verstappen and Leclerc retire their cars.

I think so too, but how would it look if Mercedes publicly gave up after 9 races and Wolf said we're writing off the season, there's no chance for us anyway. Ferrari and RedBull have also lost a lot of points because of defects, they are fast but not very reliable.

But I don't agree with you on one point, Perez and Sainz are two strong drivers, they won't really fight for the world championship title, but Perez shows that he's not just a second driver, he wants to be in the race for the win, but he also has a lot of bad luck with defects.

[tokeweed]

Good recovery from Ferrari but Sainz had no possibility to overtake Max.

Impressive race for Mercedes, they are getting closer to the top once again.

The FIA gave them a favor.  Lol.  Didn't the FIA change some regulation with the height of the cars from the ground to help Mercedes with their problems with porpoising citing 'safety concerns'?  I think changing the rules in the middle of the season could set a bad precedent for the sport.  If they start doing it now, they could do it again and again as the season progresses.

Next couple of races should be good.  Silverstone then Austria.  Wheee.

[bestcoins1]

Some driver were playing around with the tyres, but Fabio made the right decision and the tyres didn't degrade excessively over the whole distance. So Fabio did everything right.

Yes, Fabio does a really good job in the race so he is able to keep his pace and rhythm in addition to keeping the tires safe so he just keeps the distance he can and doesn't push it too much.

Bagnaia also started late last season and couldn't quite catch up at the end and always had to ride at the limit. Fabio already has the experience as a world champion, he rides very dry, but I can also remember the seasons before Fabio became world champion, Mir was more consistent than Fabio and won the world championship because of that.

In 2020 when Mir was consistently on the podium, he only won one race at Valencia and even then it was already the end of the season before the drivers headed to the Algarve Portugal. Actually in 2020 Fabio also looks consistent by winning three races including his team mate (Morbidelli) who was able to win three races so that the independent team champion at that time was held by Petronas Racing.

And overall Yamaha in 2020 was able to get a winning podium 7 times (if combined between the factory team and the Petronas Satellite team), only Fabio at that time felt a little nervous and uneasy when racing in Valencia so he had a crash. For Bagnaia he actually tried to catch Fabio from the start of the season because remembering last year he also failed to catch Fabio in the second half of the season.

[Velvet78]

FIA's decision to increase the height of the cars is going to be really helpful for Mercedes. I think that we saw one of its example in the Canadian GP. After this change in regulations, it looks like Mercedes and McLaren can be the most profitable teams. I don't think that Ferrari are very disadvantageous now because they have also had the porpoising problem so far. Maybe their problem isn't as serious as Mercedes but it was still seen before. Red Bull can be counted as the most disadvantageous team about this maybe but they are still very fast.

[Cnut237]

The FIA gave them a favor.  Lol.  Didn't the FIA change some regulation with the height of the cars from the ground to help Mercedes with their problems with porpoising citing 'safety concerns'?  I think changing the rules in the middle of the season could set a bad precedent for the sport.  If they start doing it now, they could do it again and again as the season progresses.

I think that's a bit harsh on the FIA, it's not quite accurate, and it may not be the outcome you anticipate.

Wolff was definitely being a bit ridiculous by claiming it's just a safety concern and so needs to be changed, it's true that certain drivers are experiencing discomfort... but it's equally true that this is because of the way they've designed the car. Other designs (e.g. Red Bull) don't have the problem. So Merc should raise their ride height to ensure their drivers are safe, and other teams can do as they like.

However... and it's a big however... the FIA directive is not to raise ride height, but to reduce oscillation of the cars below a certain permitted limit. What this means is that Merc will have to raise their car... and if Red Bull are genuinely unaffected, they can leave their car as is, completely unchanged. The point being that if Red Bull do raise their car, they will be doing so to comply with the regulation, which means they do have the bouncing issue and are just pretending they don't.

So we'll see. Merc may have been pushing for this, but it's not quite the outcome they wanted, it may end up benefitting them, or it may not, I don't think we know yet. Merc could end up looking ridiculous by pushing for a rule that means they have to raise their own car, and no-one else does!

And the FIA certainly aren't doing them a favour... if you recall, the FIA don't like Mercedes, as was evident in the way they ignored their own rules to ensure Verstappen was given the championship last season!

[wmaurik]

That is a really bad result for Honda.However they have been dominating this sport for so long with some years being beaten by Yamaha and sometimes from Ducati but overall Honda has dominated here at least from 2002 which I first saw MotoGP and those great battles between Max Biaggi and Valentino Rossi were some of the best duels I have seen in the MotoGP.In fact after Biaggi retired when he was beaten by Rossi even though he was riding a Honda and Rossi not everything was not as it was and never again I saw such duels with Rossi and other riders.Hopefully this will change.

Now both have retired and become Legends for MotoGp. Overall, Honda has dominated Germany in the past, but for this year everything has changed with the absence of Marc Marquez in Germany so that there is already a new winner from Yamaha, namely Fabio Quartararo. For me the MotoGP race in Germany this year was very boring because there were not many duels that occurred after Bagnaia crashed on the fourth lap at the first corner.

[MonsterV]

I wonder if we're going to have an exciting season in the battle for the world championship. The start looked promising, Le Clerc seemed to be fully involved but has now retired a few times in a row and Verstappen is currently winning everything you can win. He does have a great team player with Perez, who has already let Verstappen win once. You also have to be able to handle that to play the 2nd fiddle. The battle for the World Cup seems decided: Verstappen easily becomes world champion.

[Cnut237]

I wonder if we're going to have an exciting season in the battle for the world championship. The start looked promising, Le Clerc seemed to be fully involved but has now retired a few times in a row and Verstappen is currently winning everything you can win. He does have a great team player with Perez, who has already let Verstappen win once. You also have to be able to handle that to play the 2nd fiddle. The battle for the World Cup seems decided: Verstappen easily becomes world champion.

Yeah, it's looking that way. It must be immensely frustrating for Leclerc, who often has the fastest single-lap qualifying car, but not the fastest full-race car, and really suffering from reliability issues. We have to bear in mind he's likely to take further engine penalties as the season progresses, too. The season is in danger of getting boring, as RB need a better second driver who is able to (and permitted to) compete. At least in the Merc era we had Hamilton and Rosberg battling between them, and then a couple of years where Vettel mounted a serious challenge. This season is shaping up to be an easy Verstappen win simply because he's the last man standing.

[swogerino]

FIA's decision to increase the height of the cars is going to be really helpful for Mercedes. I think that we saw one of its example in the Canadian GP. After this change in regulations, it looks like Mercedes and McLaren can be the most profitable teams. I don't think that Ferrari are very disadvantageous now because they have also had the porpoising problem so far. Maybe their problem isn't as serious as Mercedes but it was still seen before. Red Bull can be counted as the most disadvantageous team about this maybe but they are still very fast.

I don't think Redbull and Ferrari are that in disadvantage against Mercedes and McLaren because of this new decision.Both Mercedes an McLaren who runs a Mercedes engine are suffering in speed,meaning in their power unit,the gains that they may make because of this new decision will not make their engines faster thus they remain no threat to Redbull and Ferrari.Redbull so far has the fastest top speed in straights and Ferrari has improved a lot in this direction.In the upcoming race we will see again that it will be dominated by these two teams and in such track like the upcoming one Mercedes won't be a threat to Redbull or Ferrari,I am not counting McLaren at all (although I am their fan) because they have a disastrous car so far in the season.

[Distraction]

I also agree that Ferrari and Red Bull aren't in a that bad situation now despite the new regulation for the height of cars. It was just Mercedes that benefited from this a lot as they improved their performance compared to the previous races. Russell secured his gap with Leclerc in a great way in the last race and there was a very visible improvement in Hamilton's performance as well. It is good to see Mercedes starting to get close to Red Bull and Ferrari slowly. It may take a lot of time for them to reach the level of the other two teams but they must still be contented with the current situation.

[Davian144]

MotoGP rumors are getting wild...

Oliveira, who had been rumored to be with Gresini, now turned to RNF. Reportedly there are several reasons that made the negotiations between Oliveira and Gresini a bit tough.
The first is about sponsorship, reportedly the two sponsors of Ducati or Gresini are not compatible with Oliviera's personal sponsor. But this rumor has been denied by Paulo Oliveira's father (as well as Oliveira's manager)

The second thing about the salary was then added that it was not in accordance with Ducati's philosophy, which focused on young drivers.
As for Rins, it is reported that he is getting closer to LCR, but it all depends on Honda's approval. _{Source: gpcorner.com}

[wiss19]

In an interview Toto Wolf said that Mercedes has not written off the championship yet, they will probably get the bouncing problem under control/understand it better in the next races I would say and the Mercedes is currently the most reliable car in the field. There will be several more penalties and retirements for Ferrari and RedBull and Mercedes will keep scoring points.

I think this is just talk, there's next to zero chance of Mercedes challenging for the title this year.

Most races follow the same pattern, Leclerc takes pole, Verstappen just behind him. Verstappen in the faster race-distance car overtakes Leclerc and wins. Leclerc takes second or retires the car. Perez and Sainz bumble about lower down the order, in cars that should finish 3rd and 4th every race... Mercedes are ultra-reliable but slow, and finish 5th/6th unless Ferrari have issues or Perez/Sainz perform badly... in which case the Mercs can move up a couple of places.

But there's no chance of Merc winning a race unless both Verstappen and Leclerc retire their cars.

There is zero chance, I agree with that. They could however get a lot better for next year. The trio of max verstappen, charlesleclerc, and georgerussell seems like they are the future of F1 for the time being, there are some other young drivers but none of them are either that good, or they are not in good teams.

This means that when Mercedes fixes the issue and they race at max speed without bouncing, they will be fighting for a title for sure, there is no doubt. This will take until next year, but they will be there for sure. This year, it is all about max getting it, there is no title challenge, he will be the winner, and Charles will try his best to do as good as he can.