Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[coinlocket$]

Mercedes showed signs of improvement all season, they started barely top 10 at first, then they became arguably third, then they became clearly third best, then they even fought for second best, and maybe on the last two races competed against the very best as well. That type of improvement over course of one season, and then moving to next season where there aren't much regulation changes, means that they are going to start at the top for sure.

The real big shuffle will happen in 2026 when cars are basically new, but until then, Mercedes still has one of the best turbo engines ever, and that should give them a good chance to be at the top for sure.

Mercedes got a good improvement after the (never happened before) change of regulation in this summer.

They increased the height of all the car to reduce the purposing effect, the team with the biggest advantage was the Mercedes and the team with the biggest lost was Ferrari according to the simulations done at the time.

[alegotardo]

Mercedes showed signs of improvement all season, they started barely top 10 at first, then they became arguably third, then they became clearly third best, then they even fought for second best, and maybe on the last two races competed against the very best as well. That type of improvement over course of one season, and then moving to next season where there aren't much regulation changes, means that they are going to start at the top for sure.

The real big shuffle will happen in 2026 when cars are basically new, but until then, Mercedes still has one of the best turbo engines ever, and that should give them a good chance to be at the top for sure.

I don't think they were that good, for me Mercedes has lost its prominent place that it lost this last season with the introduction of the new technical regulations.

In fact, it's been a long time since Mercedes stopped being the protagonist of F1, but it is well committed to the development of the car for the next championship... to the car and operations... and also in Brixworth in the UK with its engine.

Even so, I wouldn't be so optimistic, because despite the good expectations, Mercedes has already failed with its new car project in the first year of the new technical regulation and was well behind the innovations presented by Ferrari and RBR.

I hope that for 2023 they have adjusted the problems and actually show good results with their "new car"

[swogerino]

Mercedes showed signs of improvement all season, they started barely top 10 at first, then they became arguably third, then they became clearly third best, then they even fought for second best, and maybe on the last two races competed against the very best as well. That type of improvement over course of one season, and then moving to next season where there aren't much regulation changes, means that they are going to start at the top for sure.

The real big shuffle will happen in 2026 when cars are basically new, but until then, Mercedes still has one of the best turbo engines ever, and that should give them a good chance to be at the top for sure.

Mercedes got a good improvement after the (never happened before) change of regulation in this summer.

They increased the height of all the car to reduce the purposing effect, the team with the biggest advantage was the Mercedes and the team with the biggest lost was Ferrari according to the simulations done at the time.

That is why I never agree with changing regulations in the middle of a season,you intentionally or unintentionally favor or disfavor a team and the team who you favor will have nothing to say but the one which loses will have a lot to say about the decisions of the FIA and I would agree that Ferrari lost a lot after such changes.They almost lost the battle against Mercedes as a team and they were lucky to have a great final race that made them win the second place both in drivers and constructors Championship.

[wmaurik]

Then the latest news I heard in the local media. It is reported that the VR46 Team, which currently uses Ducati, will move to Yamaha in 2024. This is because the Yamaha RNF Team has gone to Aprilia. So Yamaha doesn't have a satellite team at the moment and this is an opportunity for VR46 to step in to fill this void.

The news was made by the president of FIM, Jorge Viegas, where the VR46 team itself had not decided anything for its steps in 2024 and VR46 director Uccio Salucci admitted that he was surprised by this news so he immediately made clarifications about this so that it would not become a long commotion because it was already circulating in all local and foreign media.

“This is a story that never ends. Previously, they said we would have several Yamahas in 2023, now it has been postponed to 2024," said Rossi's best friend, quoted by GPOne.com. "I don't know why Viegas dropped such a bomb, it's a bit strange because we don't know anything about it. We have a three-year contract with Ducati and it expires at the end of 2024, with an option to renew it for two more seasons.

"Without a doubt, we will respect the agreement we have signed, then we will see whether in 2025 we continue (with Ducati) or not. As I always say, for us the most important thing is to have a competitive bike." Source: motorsport.com

[karabiber]

F1 analysts and commentators created a performance chart by averaging the race pace of the teams. Many F1 analysts and commentators average race paces over a twenty-two-race season to create a team performance chart at the end of the season. It was stated that the fastest vehicle according to the averages of the race tempos was the RB18. Ferrari and Mercedes have taken second and third places. The ranking is as follows:
*%1= 1 Second

Red Bull (RB18): 0.00%. (Fastest vehicle, reference point)
Ferrari (F1-75): +0.19%.
Mercedes (W13): +0.59%.
Alpine (A522): +1.46%
McLaren (MCL36): +1.56%
Aston Martin (AMR22): +1.84%.
Alpha Tauri (AT03:) +1.84%.
Alfa Romeo (C42): +1.87%
Haas (VF22): +2.06%
Williams (FW44): +2.29%
Source: https://tr.motorsport.com/f1/news/2022-f1-sezonunun-en-hizli-araci-hangisiydi-hangi-takim-ne-kadar-gelisti-/10409689/

[coinlocket$]

2 Weeks ago we got "la Gazzetta dello sport" and now we have "GpFans" from Holland.

They both agree Ferrari has chosen the next chief for the team.

Frederic Vasseur and according to them, he will be announced before the end of the month.

[el kaka22]

Vasseur is definitely better than Binotto that's for sure, he should be providing some improvement but will it be a long term I am not sure. I think it is not going to be enough, he is a great engineer who has his starts at building his own team so he knows how to manage by literally owning his own team, having full control, he is the CEO of Alfa Romeo racing, that is not an easy task. So at the end of the day, this will be an improvement there is no doubt about that and the strategy and pit wall problems should get lower and lower.

However, building a car was Binottos deal, he always provided a great car, everything else was worse for him, but Vasseur may not build a car that good. I just wish they just kept Binotto and let him build the car, and then get Vasseur to handle the in season stuff afterwards, best of both worlds.

[coinlocket$]

Side news, Riccardo who is now only a 3rd driver for Redbull for the following year will may participate at the 24hours of LeMans.

Source: https://www.formulapassion.it/motorsport/formula-1/f1-piloti/ricciardo-apre-alla-24-ore-di-le-mans-nel-2023-643217.html

For sure he will not if something changes with the seats of the cars.

[Zackgeno96]

It is a pity that we now have to wait a few months for the new start of the Formula 1 season. I don't see any news yet regarding any new contracts or new drivers, but the season also doesn't start until March/April. In any case, Red Bull will start the new season as the favorite. Ferrari have had a disappointing season, especially when you consider how well they started the season. Leclerc seemed to be able to enter into a serious title fight with Verstappen, but has dropped out very often. And Hamilton? He has won 0 races this season.

[ILuckyGuyI]

It was really for the first time in seven years that Hamilton couldn't win any race in a season. This was as a result of Mercedes' losing a lot of power against Red Bull - Ferrari duo of course. After the regulation change you mentioned, Mercedes started to benefit from it very much but the time was still limited for Hamilton to win a race. Russell got his first win in his career but there wasn't any turn for Hamilton I'm afraid. But if Mercedes keep improving their car they can compete for the championship again.

Some people might be criticizing Hamilton for not having a good season at all. But this season doesn't show it like Hamilton isn't a that much impressive driver. If Verstappen was in Mercedes' seat this season he would have also had a similar season. The power of the car just limits the driver of that car very much.

[swogerino]

2 Weeks ago we got "la Gazzetta dello sport" and now we have "GpFans" from Holland.

They both agree Ferrari has chosen the next chief for the team.

Frederic Vasseur and according to them, he will be announced before the end of the month.

Vasseur I doubt to have more capabilities than Binotto but will have to see how it turns out.I think that Vasseur has enough experience in small to middle teams and it is now the time to come up to the big team and bring them back where they belong,there where they want to get the title back at all costs after so many years by missing it,sometimes because of not making a great car and even in those times when they made it,they either screw it up by pit stop wrong strategies or like the time when Vettel got two times out of the race and this costed him the title.

Personally though I find it difficult for the new guy to bring back the team at such levels.

[coinlocket$]

Vasseur

Vasseur, unlike Binotto, has great experience as a box man.
As we can read on the Wikipedia page, he has over 20 years of experience in that field, even in minor leagues, and also has excellent experience in Formula 1.

Binotto, on the other hand, had no track experience, he is "only" a great engineer who, however, does not automatically mean he is also a great boss for the team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Vasseur

It is a mystery on how Marchionne (rip) chose him, now we have Elkann in the lead and he will change him with a new one.

[retreat]

It was really for the first time in seven years that Hamilton couldn't win any race in a season. This was as a result of Mercedes' losing a lot of power against Red Bull - Ferrari duo of course. After the regulation change you mentioned, Mercedes started to benefit from it very much but the time was still limited for Hamilton to win a race. Russell got his first win in his career but there wasn't any turn for Hamilton I'm afraid. But if Mercedes keep improving their car they can compete for the championship again.

Some people might be criticizing Hamilton for not having a good season at all. But this season doesn't show it like Hamilton isn't a that much impressive driver. If Verstappen was in Mercedes' seat this season he would have also had a similar season. The power of the car just limits the driver of that car very much.

Very confident that Mercedes will be able to compete with Red Bull - Ferrari in the next season since they will change the architecture of their F1 car, especially on the chassis, which was previously a problem for the Mercedes team.

And it seems, Mercedes has no problem with their drivers, their two drivers, Russell and Hamilton, are drivers with pretty good performance, but it's just that they haven't found a good "footing" to be able to compete with other drivers, especially drivers from Red Bull -Ferrari. But it is only a matter of time before they can win the season again since they have benefited from the regulation change.

[Koal-84]

I don't think Ferrari can compete with RedBull next year but I'm sure the battle will be tighter than what we had this year. As long as Max has a great car , he pretty looks unstoppable and I'm not a fan of him but the kid is one of the greatest but Charles is up there as well , he just needs Ferrari to develop a steady car for an entire season. 

Well, this year Ferrari was competitive at the start but Redbull did progress better and maybe doped the car this year too.

For the following year, I will bet on Mercedes.

Ferrari was very competitive at the beginning of the last year. At the beginning RedBull had problems and at the end of the season it was more Ferrari and also Mercedes caught up at the end of the session. But I read that Ferrari reduced the power of their powertrains during the season because they had standstill problems. This should no longer happen next season. If Ferrari also fixes their own mistakes, I think they'll be right in front.

Anyway, I think it will be very close between Mercedes, RedBull and Ferrari next season.

[tokeweed]

^  Depends.  They could also be in another transition period with their new team principal and possibly new chief technical officer if the Ferrari F1 brass decides to kick Binotto out which I don't think they will do.  There could be other teams that'll love to hire him and get more advantage for his talents as an engineer.

Remember, Binotto was also one of the engineers who helped built the winning cars of Michael Schmacher at Ferrari.  I'll say it again, it would be a huge mistake for Ferrari to get rid of him.

[Pulsar77]

I still don't understand why Ricciardo would like to come back to Red Bull as the third driver.

He left Red Bull not to become the second driver in the team. He had some serious disagreements with Verstappen as well. Of course there have been many years so they might not have any personal issues between themselves anymore maybe. But still he is returning as a candidate to become the second driver again. This makes me think like he isn't a competitive driver any longer. Because the Ricciardo I know would have liked to join a team in which he can fight for big success.

Going to Mercedes would have been a much more appropriate move for that version of Ricciardo. However here we are seeing him waiting for his turn after Perez leaves.

[swogerino]

I still don't understand why Ricciardo would like to come back to Red Bull as the third driver.

He left Red Bull not to become the second driver in the team. He had some serious disagreements with Verstappen as well. Of course there have been many years so they might not have any personal issues between themselves anymore maybe. But still he is returning as a candidate to become the second driver again. This makes me think like he isn't a competitive driver any longer. Because the Ricciardo I know would have liked to join a team in which he can fight for big success.

Going to Mercedes would have been a much more appropriate move for that version of Ricciardo. However here we are seeing him waiting for his turn after Perez leaves.

I agree but honestly he would not have got the seat at Mercedes if Hamilton leaves,Mercedes likes to believe in young aspiring drivers like Rosberg,Bottas and Russell as of lately,I am sure they would not want to get some one of the age of Ricciardo although I got nothing against his age.

In Redbull I think Verstappen would not mind having him as a team mate when Perez leaves,he because of his age compared to how Verstappen drivers will be of no problem to him,that is why I think in the end Ricciardo did made the right choice by joining Redbull again.

[LTU_btc]

Vasseur, unlike Binotto, has great experience as a box man.
As we can read on the Wikipedia page, he has over 20 years of experience in that field, even in minor leagues, and also has excellent experience in Formula 1.

Binotto, on the other hand, had no track experience, he is "only" a great engineer who, however, does not automatically mean he is also a great boss for the team.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fr%C3%A9d%C3%A9ric_Vasseur

It is a mystery on how Marchionne (rip) chose him, now we have Elkann in the lead and he will change him with a new one.

I think that Vassseur isn't bad choice. But somehow I don't expect that he will stay in Ferrari for long, maybe 2-3 years until things will go wrong.
Meanwhile Williams announced that Jost Capito leaves team:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-f1-team-principal-jost-capito-steps-down/10410668/
In these few years he had done big work with Williams and interesting where he will go.

I still don't understand why Ricciardo would like to come back to Red Bull as the third driver.

He left Red Bull not to become the second driver in the team. He had some serious disagreements with Verstappen as well. Of course there have been many years so they might not have any personal issues between themselves anymore maybe. But still he is returning as a candidate to become the second driver again. This makes me think like he isn't a competitive driver any longer. Because the Ricciardo I know would have liked to join a team in which he can fight for big success.

Going to Mercedes would have been a much more appropriate move for that version of Ricciardo. However here we are seeing him waiting for his turn after Perez leaves.

The problem is that he isn't Mercedes level driver anymore and he isn't invited there. He didn't wanted to race for teams like Haas, but I don't understand how being reserve driver can be better option than being regular driver of F1 team, even if they don't fight for high places.

[Koal-84]

I think that Vassseur isn't bad choice. But somehow I don't expect that he will stay in Ferrari for long, maybe 2-3 years until things will go wrong.

I also think that Vassseur is not a bad decision, he got the best possible out of Sauber. Of course more would have been possible, when the car was halfway good there was the disaster with the Ferrari engine where they reached an agreement with the FIA and the engine had no more power. But unlike Sauber, he will have a lot of pressure at Ferrari.

In addition, it seems that Honda will officially return to Formula 1 as an engine/powertrain manufacturer in 2026. Honda has officially signed up for the 2026 season but not with partner RedBull, according to newspaper reports.

https://www.motorsport-total.com/formel-1/news/honda-schreibt-sich-fuer-formel-1-motorenreglement-2026-ein-22121207

[retreat]

Remember, Binotto was also one of the engineers who helped built the winning cars of Michael Schmacher at Ferrari.  I'll say it again, it would be a huge mistake for Ferrari to get rid of him.

Maybe yes, maybe no. We all know that Binotto was instrumental in making Ferrari one of the best constructors. He has dedicated 28 years at Ferrari as a principal and is very good at it. But that doesn't mean F1 will suffer a setback with his departure - he's not perfect, he has a lot of flaws - it could be a turning point for Ferrari to become a top constructor again.

What's more, Vasseur has been named the newest team principal for Ferrari and he is not someone to be underestimated, with 25 years of experience, he can combine this experience with what Binotto has built. This will probably make F1's performance even better in the coming season.