[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[rjk]

Then why announce it at all until they were ready to ship? Then it really wouldn't matter to them. They do have VC funding right?

Simple, to kick the competition in the balls. Seems to have worked.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Then why announce it at all until they were ready to ship? Then it really wouldn't matter to them. They do have VC funding right?

So they could kill competition.

[Smoovious]

Then why announce it at all until they were ready to ship? Then it really wouldn't matter to them. They do have VC funding right?

So they could kill competition.

Also has the side effect, of keeping the difficulty growing at a slower rate than it could be growing with more FPGA's coming online, before the halving.

-- Smoov

[Cablez]

But really, if these ASICs come out even close to the time frame BFL boast they wouldn't have competition anyway. The FPGA space would dry up overnight.  If they have real VC funding they wouldn't need to play any games, just produce and win.

[kano]

Then why announce it at all until they were ready to ship? Then it really wouldn't matter to them. They do have VC funding right?

So they could kill competition.

Yes, as I have said before, this is simply just V2.0 of last September ...

[Fjordbit]

But really, if these ASICs come out even close to the time frame BFL boast they wouldn't have competition anyway. The FPGA space would dry up overnight.  If they have real VC funding they wouldn't need to play any games, just produce and win.

The point is that this effectively kills all other FPGA right now. No one is going to want to buy another FPGA if it doesn't have a path to ASIC.

[hardpick]

But really, if these ASICs come out even close to the time frame BFL boast they wouldn't have competition anyway. The FPGA space would dry up overnight.  If they have real VC funding they wouldn't need to play any games, just produce and win.

The point is that this effectively kills all other FPGA right now. No one is going to want to buy another FPGA if it doesn't have a path to ASIC.

also who would buy a gpu based system ?? unless you have free power and want to play games ---

[sadpandatech]

But really, if these ASICs come out even close to the time frame BFL boast they wouldn't have competition anyway. The FPGA space would dry up overnight.  If they have real VC funding they wouldn't need to play any games, just produce and win.

The point is that this effectively kills all other FPGA right now. No one is going to want to buy another FPGA if it doesn't have a path to ASIC.

also who would buy a gpu based system ?? unless you have free power and want to play games ---

This does not affect GPU quite as hard as FPGA. GPUs can mine right now and hold a decent resale value in and out of bitcoin.

[cablepair]

Dont believe everything you read

BFL is not your friend.

BFL cares nothing for Bitcoin.

BFL has had a strategy since day 1 to milk as much cash as possible from this community.

BFL's current claims on ASIC is complete Bull SHIT, these are numbers they pulled out of their ass to make themselves look good, the reality is they have no freakin clue what the speed will be, in fact as eddy terrel pointed out their jalepeno USB efficiency claims are NOT POSSIBLE.

Just remember October is a long ways a way. They are just hoping they have it figured out by then, well guess what they arent the only one.

[sadpandatech]

well guess what they arent the only one.

aye, I've said this many times. Not everyone working on such endeavours comes to 'announce' them prematurely. ;p

[hardpick]

Dont believe everything you read

BFL is not your friend.

BFL cares nothing for Bitcoin.

BFL has had a strategy since day 1 to milk as much cash as possible from this community.

BFL's current claims on ASIC is complete Bull SHIT, these are numbers they pulled out of their ass to make themselves look good, the reality is they have no freakin clue what the speed will be, in fact as eddy terrel pointed out their jalepeno USB efficiency claims are NOT POSSIBLE.

Just remember October is a long ways a way. They are just hoping they have it figured out by then, well guess what they arent the only one.

my 2 cents
they have delivered the 4 mini rig to gigavps to day and I think he sound happy
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=88813.0
and yes BFL wants to make money but I would think any miner that is generating more than 10 GH/s are after money
I would also think a good percentage of those miner care nothing about bitcoin -- just want to make $$$$$
and I beleive BFL will deliver an asic based miner --- maybe not on time or does not meet all the spec -- but it will be better on what we are using for mining to day

[SgtSpike]

in fact as eddy terrel pointed out their jalepeno USB efficiency claims are NOT POSSIBLE.

Can you point me to this?

[bitlane]

in fact as eddy terrel pointed out their jalepeno USB efficiency claims are NOT POSSIBLE.

Can you point me to this?

Read this thread....
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87963.msg970134#msg970134

[DavinciJ15]

This will consolidate mining into a few hands that get that 1TH server first.

[SgtSpike]

This will consolidate mining into a few hands that get that 1TH server first.

And the hundreds of miners who buy singles, and the thousands of miners buying the coffee warmers.

[crazyates]

Dont believe everything you read

BFL is not your friend.

BFL cares nothing for Bitcoin.

BFL has had a strategy since day 1 to milk as much cash as possible from this community.

BFL's current claims on ASIC is complete Bull SHIT, these are numbers they pulled out of their ass to make themselves look good, the reality is they have no freakin clue what the speed will be, in fact as eddy terrel pointed out their jalepeno USB efficiency claims are NOT POSSIBLE.

Just remember October is a long ways a way. They are just hoping they have it figured out by then, well guess what they arent the only one.

Can you stop spamming all the BFL threads? As a direct competitor to them, your voice holds no weight. Sorry, but that's just how it is.

[DavinciJ15]

Well, if this is true. The CEO of BFL (or the VCs who may be able to replace him) can own the network at trifling cost and there is jack shit anyone can do about it. You deluded idiots and your precious decentralization. What a fucking joke.

Well, yes, sort of. This has always been true. Didn't have to be BFL of course, but it was obvious for a long time that owning the network was within the grasp of anyone with a decent amount of money who could get ASICs designed and manufactured.

However, as several people have pointed out already, what you need to bear in mind is that even if this is true we don't know how many THash/s worth of chips BFL would need to sell in order to reach this kind of pricing. We can guess, though, and it's not likely to be a small amount. Once you factor in that and the resulting increase in difficulty those prices will probably look rather less attractive.

Read more carefully. The most profitable approach is to sell units en masse while quietly building up a larger cache of personal units. The fact that they profit from selling units to customers in no way implies that they cannot profit from turning these units into paperweights after the market is saturated. That is what I would do.

Sounds like what the Federal Reserve and it's member banks will do to the dollar. 

[DavinciJ15]

Of course if the bfl Asic became too much of a problem one could modify bitcoin protocol just enough so that the ASIC doesn't work or is severely hampered. They are very specific. A fpga can be reprogrammed. An ASIC would be nothing more than a coffee warmer then, literally.

Why are some people seemingly under the impression that ASICs are 'evil' or 'a problem'? ASICs are not the boogeyman. They will be used for mining, just like FPGAs are this year, just like GPUs were last year, and just like CPUs were 2 years ago.

They are a natural evolution of an efficient solution for the proof-of-work problem that the bitcoin protocol presents. The fact that someone has the cajones to dump serious capital into development of something like this is evidence that bitcoin is thriving, in fact, growing. This is a good thing for all of us.

Yes, the large-scale deployment of ASICs will make GPU (and to a lesser extent, FPGA) mining obsolete. It will drive difficulty up to levels never seen before. That is, mining with GPUs and FPGAs will no longer be profitable. So what? Just like the arrival of GPU mining en-mass heralded the demise of CPU miners. So what? We either chose to embrace ASICs as miners, or we take our profits and GTFO of the mining scene.

What may happen is that when ASICs are deployed en-mass, the 'average miner' will have a farm that has 20x the hashrate of what they currently have. So instead of a 5Ghps miner being the 'average', it will be a 100Ghps miner. If that miner has $4k worth of GPU/FPGAs now, he can choose to 'upgrade' and buy $4k worth of ASICs. The difficulty will be 20x what it is now, so 30M instead of 1.5M. Bitcoins will still be $6 (they will still be generated at the same rate so supply remains the same).

And this all means that mining profits for the previously mentioned 'average miner' with $4k worth of 100Ghps ASICs will remain the same as they are now. If he is making 3BTC a day with his $4k 5Ghps rig now, he will continue to make 3BTC a day with his $4k 100Ghps ASIC rig. Nothing changes.

This is 'evil' or 'a problem' how? It is only a problem for those who are currently invested in GPUs and FPGAs and who don't want to change. Change or die. That's how it's always been. It was the case with the CPU-to-GPU transition, and we are seeing the beginnings of it now with the GPU-to-FPGA transistion, and we have already been warned that an FPGA-to-ASIC transition is looming. No one is forcing us to continue mining, but many of us will.

+1

Preach!

[DavinciJ15]

This is why i posted over a week ago that this BFL ASIC thing is going to kill everyone. Yes, ASIC's are good for bitcoin, but they have to be implemented properly as it looks like they have come to market too quickly and cause a double leap. This is NOT CPU to GPU, this is GPU to ASIC, since they have come to market before FPGA's have had any chance to be implemented and mature.

The ASIUC is a different beast because once it is programmed, there is NO secondary market. High initial development cost, then extremely low production cost. Considering that mining is based on difficulty, this causes a HUGE monetary conflict.

Jesus this has been so ridiculous to see people not understand this and fall on half truths and past bullshit to frame their retorts.

THIS IS A NEW BEAST AND IS UNLIKE ANYTHING THAT HAS EVER HIT MINING BEFORE.

It requires a new type of analysis in order to preserve any sense of decentralization in mining.

If miners actually gave a shit about bitcoin they would all stop buying BFL's bullshit and tell them to screw.

Let's all get behind a legit openASIC program and do this OURSELVES in the right way.

Let everyone in the community have a chance to invest on the front end and distribute the mining appliances evenly so people can assess their prospective investment properly and only have to speculate on how much the coins might be worth. Rather than wondering if they will be left in the dust in the blink of an eye.

Get behind companies like enterpoint, nzhang, modminer quad, ztek, and the rest who have shown professionalism and consistency.

With kind respect sir socialism doesn't work.  If bitcoin fails because of BFL then so be it! It was not designed properly and a new design will emerge from the ashes.  Do I want this to happen?  Of course not, no one wants to see something they built or help build be destroyed by harshness of a dog eat dog world (aka, the choices of FREE men), however this is the way of real world.  I don't expect you to agree as I was once a socialist like yourself but I have seen the light thanks to people like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff.   Heck they even converted my brother who was the worst kind of socialist... a teacher. 

Bitcoin is a tool that must be good for the individual because that's all that matters, a tool works for us not the other way around.  If bitcoin does not work for us then we must find another tool, it's that simple.

Cheers

Davinci

[nedbert9]

This is why i posted over a week ago that this BFL ASIC thing is going to kill everyone. Yes, ASIC's are good for bitcoin, but they have to be implemented properly as it looks like they have come to market too quickly and cause a double leap. This is NOT CPU to GPU, this is GPU to ASIC, since they have come to market before FPGA's have had any chance to be implemented and mature.

The ASIUC is a different beast because once it is programmed, there is NO secondary market. High initial development cost, then extremely low production cost. Considering that mining is based on difficulty, this causes a HUGE monetary conflict.

Jesus this has been so ridiculous to see people not understand this and fall on half truths and past bullshit to frame their retorts.

THIS IS A NEW BEAST AND IS UNLIKE ANYTHING THAT HAS EVER HIT MINING BEFORE.

It requires a new type of analysis in order to preserve any sense of decentralization in mining.

If miners actually gave a shit about bitcoin they would all stop buying BFL's bullshit and tell them to screw.

Let's all get behind a legit openASIC program and do this OURSELVES in the right way.

Let everyone in the community have a chance to invest on the front end and distribute the mining appliances evenly so people can assess their prospective investment properly and only have to speculate on how much the coins might be worth. Rather than wondering if they will be left in the dust in the blink of an eye.

Get behind companies like enterpoint, nzhang, modminer quad, ztek, and the rest who have shown professionalism and consistency.

With kind respect sir socialism doesn't work.  If bitcoin fails because of BFL then so be it! It was not designed properly and a new design will emerge from the ashes.  Do I want this to happen?  Of course not, no one wants to see something they built or help build be destroyed by harshness of a dog eat dog world (aka, the choices of FREE men), however this is the way of real world.  I don't expect you to agree as I was once a socialist like yourself but I have seen the light thanks to people like Ron Paul and Peter Schiff.   Heck they even converted my brother who was the worst kind of socialist... a teacher.  

Bitcoin is a tool that must be good for the individual because that's all that matters, a tool works for us not the other way around.  If bitcoin does not work for us then we must find another tool, it's that simple.

Cheers

Davinci

So, you're equating community projects with socialism?

 

Community projects can mean a community of individuals or business interests asserting their interests.

It happens all the time in the business world.  No need to bash small scale, individual miner oriented community projects.

After all.  Mining is decentralized and can be compared, currently at least, to a communal sharing of profit.

Scary, huh.