Bitmain Announces the Antminer R4 and APW5 Power Supply, Designed for Silence

[toptek]

make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's  so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.

what electric rate do you have (curious) me at 14c kwh (11c kwh winter) it is not likely I will get one with more then 1 year ROI at this point. (if it is around 1.3k with psu)

remember I don't mine for ROI my power is kind of free but no power is free some one pays some how but i do pay the bill form time to time as needed and right now with all fees 11 Cents per kwh, it may or may not go up in Nov, my set rate expires . mine is 11 cents all year long but the power company all ways fines ways to screw us.


how can anyone base a true ROI on something that's not even priced yet, won't that depend on the cost of the miner , unless your excluding the price for now .

I'm willing to bet this will be priced at or around 1000 bucks USD .

[1714863832]

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[Unacceptable]

make me wonder what the A7 is gonna do sense Avalon's  so far are meant for everyone but if the R4 is actually priced reason ably I'm sure I'll get at least 2 if not more.

what electric rate do you have (curious) me at 14c kwh (11c kwh winter) it is not likely I will get one with more then 1 year ROI at this point. (if it is around 1.3k with psu)

remember I don't mine for ROI my power is kind of free but no power is free some one pays some how but i do pay the bill form time to time as needed and right now with all fees 11 Cents per kwh, it may or may not go up in Nov, my set rate expires . mine is 11 cents all year long but the power company all ways fines ways to screw us.


how can anyone base a true ROI on something that's not even priced yet, won't that depend on the cost of the miner , unless your excluding the price for now .

I'm willing to bet this will be priced at or around 1000 bucks USD .

Basically,miners nowadays buy a miner & mine to get some BTC & the cost of power,if you pay for it,is just a BTC conversion tactic 

Much better than buying BTC on an exchange,no real fee's.But it does take awhile anymore to get all the BTC wrung out of your investment 

[philipma1957]

So about 24 hours to go.

Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %

The red line  is right about matched to last jump.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.

[scyth3]

So about 24 hours to go.

Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %

The red line  is right about matched to last jump.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.

They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.

[klondike_bar_recovery]

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.

i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.

bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income

[philipma1957]

So about 24 hours to go.

Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %

The red line  is right about matched to last jump.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.

They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.

Okay  lets say there is 1000 hash power in the world of which 500 is yours.  so you have 50% the hash power in the world.

lets say you add 500 more   now you are at 1000 hash power  but    your % of the world is only 67%

500/1000 = ½  or 50.0%

1000/1500 = ⅔  or 66.7%


so  if you were earning ½ the blocks each day say  72 blocks

you now earn ⅔ the blocks each day say 96 blocks

this is an extra 24 blocks  but you double your power use  to do this.

so only a moron does this on a big scale as he is mining against himself.

What the big scale guy does within the  14 day period is spike the   rate and get a lot of blocks then back off  and get less blocks.

He seeks to never jump the rate much  but  gets some real big block days within the network.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.

i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.

bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income

 you would be right if bitmaintech was smaller the 10% of the mining gear but they are not.

It is  just good business on their part to do this the way I think they do.  Vs your idea that it is simple variance.


  It spikes every diff period   over and over and over with a consistent repetition and that my friend is not variance .

[klondike_bar_recovery]

So about 24 hours to go.

Did anyone notice that prior to the launch tomorrow the diff rate has tanked to next to zero %

The red line  is right about matched to last jump.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.
But they won't honor warranties very well.

They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.

Okay  lets say there is 1000 hash power in the world of which 500 is yours.  so you have 50% the hash power in the world.

lets say you add 500 more   now you are at 1000 hash power  but    your % of the world is only 67%

500/1000 = ½  or 50.0%

1000/1500 = ⅔  or 66.7%


so  if you were earning ½ the blocks each day say  72 blocks

you now earn ⅔ the blocks each day say 96 blocks

this is an extra 24 blocks  but you double your power use  to do this.

so only a moron does this on a big scale as he is mining against himself.

What the big scale guy does within the  14 day period is spike the   rate and get a lot of blocks then back off  and get less blocks.

He seeks to never jump the rate much  but  gets some real big block days within the network.

We are dealing with a company that can shift the diff at will to suit their sales.

i think you are underestimating the power of varience. to see difficulty sing 10-20% over a span of a few days is not at all abnormal.

bimain wouldnt turn off thier farm in the opes that briefly reducing the diff would cause more sales than the lost mining income

 you would be right if bitmaintech was smaller the 10% of the mining gear but they are not.

It is  just good business on their part to do this the way I think they do.  Vs your idea that it is simple variance.


  It spikes every diff period   over and over and over with a consistent repetition and that my friend is not variance .

I understand the concept, but i tink theres a few issues, namely the example of 50%, and adding 50% more to the network. Bitmain controls somewhere in the 10-20% range, and probably pays a very small bulk electricty rate with a "minting cost" of <$350/BTC (considering hardware depreciation/resale). even if they reduced thier own btc/kwh efficiency by adding hashrate, there would probably still be a net gain to profitability.

Im sure there could be some strategic hashrate movements (perhaps to altcoins instead of simply offline) when the difficulty undegoes large adjustments, but 90%+ of the difficulty swings are purely variance.

[Swimmer63]

@philipma1957 -

1. You are right about GPU mining being Bitmain's competition.  But it's not something they are going to worry about.  Takes a lot more effort and tech skill to cobble together and run Eth miners vs. plug and play (almost) Antminers.

2. Difficulty - if you look historically I think you will see that in the last 2-3 days of the 14 day cycle the total hashrate dips.  I often wondered if the big farms earn more by turning their miners off on day 13-14, letting the difficulty drop, then cranking them up on day 1 of the new cycle.  I am not a math major and won't attempt to figure this out.  But I do think there is something to it, for no other reason than hashrate often dips prior to the diff change.
And by shutting down for a day or two I be they can get some wicked maintenance and upgrades done.

[Biodom]

So, what is the price on this, anybody knows?
I see $1000 and i see $1300 (or maybe $1300 is with PSU).
I don't care about PSU, and will definetly not pay $1300 for a 8.6Th miner.

If they try this, i see a benefit of pushing used S7 prices way up (to $450-500 territory).

@Swimmer63

eth-not really that challenging. There is a learning curve, but not a very steep one.
I am sure a lot of newbs burn antminers in the first few minutes. I remember setting up a first S1. Oh, boy!

[Swimmer63]

Certainly risks with ASICs too.  They are hardly foolproof.  But I have to believe noobs are attracted to mining by bitcoin first.
The world of alts currencies open up when they realize how hard it is to make anything on btc.  Of course there is no easy money anywhere right now.

[scyth3]

They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.

You really don't understand the economics of Bitcoin mining, do you...

Mining is subject to economics like everything else. Why do you think home mining is dead?

It doesn't make sense economically to shut down your miners to manipulate difficulty.

[philipma1957]

They are not shifting the difficulty down, that would be foolish.

You really don't understand the economics of Bitcoin mining, do you...

Mining is subject to economics like everything else. Why do you think home mining is dead?

It doesn't make sense economically to shut down your miners to manipulate difficulty.

my friend  you don't understand what a cartel is . or maybe you don't believe that

china practices an asic cartel like opec used to do with oil.

there is zero doubt that difficulty is controlled by china.  If you don't see it I am sorry.

BTW I am not against them doing it.  I would do the same as they are doing with one exception my warranty would be 1 year and I would charge more for the gear.

To me the only mistake I see them doing is giving terrible service on 90 day warranties which encourage miners to mine GPU coin and convert to btc.

Maybe they think it is a good move for them to do.


Okay forget what I just wrote.  I will ask this of you?

Do you think bitmaintech can build 45,000 s-9's?  they have over   40,000 in btc in one of their  main accounts.

Why not build 40,000 and self mine ?   Here is why 40,000 s-9's are about 520ph.  If they build them and self mine will they make a lot of money no and here is why the diff would jump from  220 to 290 maybe more like 310.
So here is their account     I paid to this address 1AT1AWEYK1VP5it5347b61nh7KseA3ESjo


https://blockchain.info/address/1AT1AWEYK1VP5it5347b61nh7KseA3ESjo

which went here

https://blockchain.info/address/1KwA4fS4uVuCNjCtMivE7m5ATbv93UZg8V  45,900 coins  about 26,000,000
usd

that money mostly sits  with a few withdrawals here and there.  They can build 10,000 20,000 s-9's easy and self mine they don't

thats because they would be mining against their own gear.  they limit difficulty growth.

When a rival shows up and sells something good they bring the extra hash power  and beat back the competition .

So rathe then calling them out to a hash fight the lesser companies don't push gear against them been going on for years.  Last company was sp-tech and spoondoolies got crushed in a price war.

once again It works for them  and I just think they need to do a better warranty plan to be truly smart .

[jstew]

so who plans on getting some r4's tommrow , i have some customers ordering and drop shipping them to me for hosting tomorrow

[philipma1957]

so who plans on getting some r4's tommrow , i have some customers ordering and drop shipping them to me for hosting tomorrow

Yeah I will even though I am nearing max power for my house.

[toptek]

So, what is the price on this, anybody knows?
I see $1000 and i see $1300 (or maybe $1300 is with PSU).
I don't care about PSU, and will definetly not pay $1300 for a 8.6Th miner.

If they try this, i see a benefit of pushing used S7 prices way up (to $450-500 territory).

@Swimmer63

eth-not really that challenging. There is a learning curve, but not a very steep one.
I am sure a lot of newbs burn antminers in the first few minutes. I remember setting up a first S1. Oh, boy!

I got a feeling it won't be sold without a PSU for warranty reason. For what ever warranty's they do honor .

How i came up with a 1000 $ per miner was i looked up the price of the S9 then divided that by 12.93 th and got about 123.xxxx  for the price per th and multiplied 8.45 by 123.xxx, that came to about 1089 or so .
but it's all guessing till they go on sell in a few hours.

Eth is not hard, to set up at all, in fact, I like it more then setting up a antminer which can be a bear some times, because, i try to do more, then i need to .

i read it more seems you won't be forced to by there PSU ...

Optional Custom-built PSU for Further Noise Reduction

[in2tactics]

Well, it looks like with the announcement of the R4, all of the S7 and S7-LN products are no longer listed.

[Gogreen]

Bitmain WANs us to focus on the $1000 r4? 

[equator]

Bitmain WANs us to focus on the $1000 r4? 

Can we mine altcoin through this miner as i am new to this mining field, and what percentage of hashpower will it use to mine the altcoin and what about the software to mine it. and what algorithm will it use to mine the altcoin. If any one can help me with the spec of this miner.

[gt_addict]

Bitmain WANs us to focus on the $1000 r4? 

Can we mine altcoin through this miner as i am new to this mining field, and what percentage of hashpower will it use to mine the altcoin and what about the software to mine it. and what algorithm will it use to mine the altcoin. If any one can help me with the spec of this miner.

No this is for SHA256 algorithms.

[philipma1957]

Bitmain WANs us to focus on the $1000 r4? 

Can we mine altcoin through this miner as i am new to this mining field, and what percentage of hashpower will it use to mine the altcoin and what about the software to mine it. and what algorithm will it use to mine the altcoin. If any one can help me with the spec of this miner.

No this is for SHA256 algorithms.

PPC is a different coin that uses sha256  but it is not better to mine then btc  for a while it was.