Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[nii236]

That's all well and good, as long as we actually hear from KnCminers. Their last update was about two weeks ago, I hope things are going well over there, I want to throw my money at them!

Right firstly; you shouldn't be throwing your money anywhere. At the risk of sounding overbearing, there's a lot of money throwing often in stupid directions on this forum. Idiotic comments like that fuels scams. So please base your decisions on well researched evidence and then make your call without projectiling monies.

Secondly; until they request cash, they have no need to update until they are content what they want to show is ready. Half arsed attempts to apease the impatient will get them more abuse than praise. It's funny people screaming lack of updates only after a few days. They showed the prototype of Mars only four days ago and said they are working on optimisation so that poss. +~30% and video evidence. I'd rather, with announcements see them put their best foot forward. We're all aware how crucial timing is in this with ASICs.

Once monies are requested, I believe a regular weekly update, even of just to state routine progress I warranted and is where other companies have let the side down.

good points .. some of us has been here from page 1 to page 75 or day 1 to day 75 watching, commenting and postings and off course doing our own research, where as others come to read and post only when they saw something promising ..

Aww come on guys I was just being enthusiastic! =(

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[ujka]

EU legislation does not apply to something that doesn't exist. Would you like a terms and conditions for the place in line you applied for? "Pre-Pre--Pre-order"

In my country there are mandatory data every company have to put on webpage:
name and registered office of the company,
the court in which the company is registered,
registration number of the company in that register and
the amount of the share capital.

In addition to this, online shops:
a valid email address,
VAT identification number,

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

[Bitcoinorama]

Aww come on guys I was just being enthusiastic! =(

Haha, no worries buddy...

[Bitcoinorama]

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm


How can I find information on companies in Sweden?

Specific information on companies in Sweden is available at the Swedish Business Registration Office, www.bolagsverket.se

EU e-commerce legistlation

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2000:178:0001:0016:EN:PDF

General information to be provided
1. In addition to other information requirements estab- lished by Community law, Member States shall ensure that the service provider shall render easily, directly and permanently accessible to the recipients of the service and competent authorities, at least the following information:
(a) thenameoftheserviceprovider;
(b) the geographic address at which the service provider is established;
(c) the details of the service provider, including his electronic mail address, which allow him to be contacted rapidly and communicated with in a direct and effective manner;
(d) wheretheserviceproviderisregisteredinatradeorsimilar public register, the trade register in which the service provider is entered and his registration number, or equiva- lent means of identification in that register;
(e) where the activity is subject to an authorisation scheme, the particulars of the relevant supervisory authority;
(f) as concerns the regulated professions:
— anyprofessionalbodyorsimilarinstitutionwithwhich the service provider is registered,
— the professional title and the Member State where it has been granted,
— a reference to the applicable professional rules in the Member State of establishment and the means to access them;
(g) where the service provider undertakes an activity that is subject to VAT, the identification number referred to in Article 22(1) of the sixth Council Directive 77/388/EEC of 17 May 1977 on the harmonisation of the laws of the Member States relating to turnover taxes — Common system of value added tax: uniform basis of assessment (2).

2. In addition to other information requirements estab- lished by Community law, Member States shall at least ensure that, where information society services refer to prices, these are to be indicated clearly and unambiguously and, in particu- lar, must indicate whether they are inclusive of tax and delivery costs




Of course Sweden will have it's own local jurisdiction. Can any Swedes contribute anything further?

[ecliptic]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

where did you see that quote?

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

[zedicus]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

ROFL!!

[Bitcoinorama]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

where did you see that quote?

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

Precisely, you reward those that have paid attention, expressed interest and followed developments from the start and give them the option of first refusal. They still have to pay upfront obviously.

Also as you haven't done any research or read anything around this. Mars is not available yet either to purchase as a pre-order, or as a manufactured unit.

I'm not sure I like the 'golden ticket' analogy.

[a1phanumrc]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

[minternj]

How is KNC doing it right? They are taking your money for overpriced FPGA to finance ASIC costs. If they wanted to do it right, front the ASIC cost themselves then sell completed chips/units.

[Bitcoinorama]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

[VJain]

Sorry, a bit late to the party.

Can anyone link me to a nice summary post of what's happening - preorder status/device availability, etc?

I looked at the website and saw that it didn't really have too much information (relevant based on the past 5-6 pages of this thread).

Thanks!

[MZD]

Sorry, a bit late to the party.

Can anyone link me to a nice summary post of what's happening - preorder status/device availability, etc?

I looked at the website and saw that it didn't really have too much information (relevant based on the past 5-6 pages of this thread).

Thanks!

I'm just gonna lol.

[KS]

still no FPGA in sight.

I hope they have the Xilinx in storage, otherwise it's going to be sth like 8 weeks from order to get them, build the miners and whatnot... I'll have 200GH/s by then.... for the price of 4 Mars.

I think I'll pass on the Mars, unless s.o. offers a good price for them in errr wait? how long? shit.... maybe ebay them? (they'll dismantle them to get the cheap FPGA's???)

[minternj]

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

You are correct, my language was wrong in my assertion. I  meant overpriced in regards to price/hashing ratio compared to  ASICs, which as you pointed out is not a fair comparison.

[ecliptic]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

[Bitcoinorama]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...

[ecliptic]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...

Agreed, this is not a "get ASIC now and get rich while diff is low" buy.  This is a long term buy based on 28nm power efficiency.  hashrate will be nowhere close to 100TH/sec when even the first 500 ship.  besides 215 TH from avalon chips, there is asicminer adding 262 TH themselves.  plus BFL and others, and these chips themselves

this is good for ASIC diversity.

[Rampion]

Right now you have a golden ticket to be among the very first to purchase one of our miners, come and register an account today

i see it now.  great, so basically there was zero risk, 0$ for people to get the first units.  normally a company rewards people who are willing to pay money upfront and trust them

for someone who wants to buy a mars right now for 2800$, has to wait in line behind others?

At the time, everyone was calling KnCMiner a scam. I had a good feeling about them and looked past the shitty website and bad English. As a result, I took a $0 risk signed up to pre-order. If they had taken money (like BFL) people would have had a fit. Now, you're crying about it?

KnCMiner is doing things right... unlike the folks over at BFL.

And I'm happy to have my Golden Ticket. :-)

He's crying about being another 'late to the party', that wants to 'throw money at it'.

What KNC has done has given people time to perform due diligence at no cost to themselves, by taking the time to inform themselves whilst they prepared their evidence and proof of concept. This allowed those interested that can't just 'throw money at things' to save up so the network can be fairly distributed to those paying attention and decentralised from 'money throwers'. The entire point of Bitcoin.

BTW the FPGA is not overpriced. FPGAs cost more than ASICs. Considerably more, but they allow you to refine the design as they are programmable. The final design is basically then produced as an ASIC, which is cheaper to produce, but has a greater initial non recurring engineering cost. From then on in it's chips for pennies or a handful of dollars each.

Yes, how dare someone who wants to financially support a company be allowed to do so! The horror!

By the way, this little company called "Avalon" did exactly what you're describing.  Back them up with money and trust them -- get a unit for 1300$.  Wait until it's proven out, pay ~$10,000.

Whatever though, it's their prerogative.  Just doesn't make much sense.  Reward with no risk?

Still not clear how the preorders for mars work.  that email is for jupiter, but mars comes out first.

There were originally 2 runs planned pre Mars and Jupiter; one for 500 pre-order, one for 500 proven.

Then Mars and Jupiter were announced. So not to piss-off those that had already expressed interest, they were still held as the initial interested parties, and their order numbers respected.

Those that choose to purchase Mars are guaranteed first run placement in Juliter. Subsequent to that it follows the original order numbers pertaining to when they initially registered interest.

They explained this process clearly each step.

There is risk, they need to produce a working mask for a 28nm ASIC and then manufacture the mining rigs en mass, overclock them to meet the specified hashrate (as they technically are 250gh/s worth of 28nm chips clocked to 350gh/s) and deliver them running stable by September as stated.

in any case Jupiter and Saturn need to arrive before the hashrate goes ballistic with 760,000 Avalon chips adding >215 TH, not to mention ASICminer and BTCGarden adding between 100-200 TH and BFL possibly adding a significant amount and limiting any chance of ROI in a reasonable time...

Jupiter and Saturn will not arrive before the Avalon chips are deployed. Those chips will be on the network at the end of July, mid August the latest.

[ujka]

For the UK guys, he's the VAT infor from HRMC regarding 'distance selling';
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/international/distance-selling.htm

According to this, if kncminer.com want to sell more then £70,000 of goods to UK in a year (that's... what, 15 miners?), they have to register for a VAT number in UK.