Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[stoechi]

pfhhheww!! Why do they make it so hard for us to decide?!

[kendog77]

This is puzzling.

They say in the newsletter they wouldn't be taking money before showing a working prototype... But then they cancel the "Mars" product, which is the only existing working prototype (and it's a FPGA, not an ASIC!!!!!), while they open payments for the Jupiters and Saturn (ASICs), for which a prototype is yet to be seen, and we have to pay in the next 7 days or we lose your spot in the queue? Plus, they make a lottery in order to get as many customers paying in the next 48 hours, starting from now?

I'm the only one reading some contradictions in all this?

It's called "bait and switch".

I had high hopes for this company, so it's really a shame that they're pulling the same stunts as all the other ASIC manufacturers. FPGA miners have been available for months, so it's really not that impressive to demonstrate a working FPGA miner.

Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.

I really hope a very large semiconductor company recognizes the potential of bitcoin mining in the near future and enters the market so we can put an end to all these shenanigans once and for all.

[ElGabo]

Somebody know something about wire transfer and invoice?

[mat542]

Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.

Well, don't know what to think about this company ... I hope it's the right horse.
Anyways I ordered, if anything goes wrong I still have 45 days with Paypal to get my money back.

The order confirmation is partially written in Russian :

[navidos]

Since i'm in Sweden, I'm waiting for their bank details and perhaps invoice option.
Invoice/Faktura should work only inside Sweden I assume.

[canth]

This is puzzling.

They say in the newsletter they wouldn't be taking money before showing a working prototype... But then they cancel the "Mars" product, which is the only existing working prototype (and it's a FPGA, not an ASIC!!!!!), while they open payments for the Jupiters and Saturn (ASICs), for which a prototype is yet to be seen, and we have to pay in the next 7 days or we lose your spot in the queue? Plus, they make a lottery in order to get as many customers paying in the next 48 hours, starting from now?

I'm the only one reading some contradictions in all this?

It's called "bait and switch".

I had high hopes for this company, so it's really a shame that they're pulling the same stunts as all the other ASIC manufacturers. FPGA miners have been available for months, so it's really not that impressive to demonstrate a working FPGA miner.

Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.

I really hope a very large semiconductor company recognizes the potential of bitcoin mining in the near future and enters the market so we can put an end to all these shenanigans once and for all.

Yep - it forces us to bet significant sums of money in several places at the same time or else risk betting on the losing horse. On the other hand, the risk/reward ratio seems to be high enough for plenty of customers to accept sending large sums of money to unproven firms. Despite all the delays, poor customer service, the new pre-orders at BFL never seemed to cease.

[dhenson]

You guys are hard to please.  

a) The mars product was just to show that they could set a target and actually deliver somewhat on time.  They delivered.  There is no need to actually bring that product to market.  It will only lose you money and cost them time.  I applaud their decision to drop it.
b) They are nothing like BFL.  BFL would have taken money day 1 and would have insulted you for questioning their time frame or progress.  Comparing the two just makes you sound ignorant.
c) Nobody else is even talking about 28nm technology, these units will be hashing long after others have been turned off due to electricity costs.

I have ordered using Paypal and a CC, there is roughly a %0 chance that I will lose my money from fraud or non-shipment.  I love bitcoin, but this is one of those instances where using bitcoin increases your risk by an infinite amount.  Pay with Paypal and stop all the FUD.

I don't even know why I'm posting this as the less of you that pull the trigger, the better my chances of winning the lotto.

[Twh]

I had high hopes for this company, so it's really a shame that they're pulling the same stunts as all the other ASIC manufacturers. FPGA miners have been available for months, so it's really not that impressive to demonstrate a working FPGA miner.

Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.

I really hope a very large semiconductor company recognizes the potential of bitcoin mining in the near future and enters the market so we can put an end to all these shenanigans once and for all.

The point of the FPGA was to prove that they can develop a product quickly and produce it in large quantities. The first they did actually achieve, the latter they did not; I'm not particularly upset that they aren't going to deliver the FPGA since it really was useless. Whether or not I order is entirely dependent on whether my bank covers the purchase, if they do, there isn't really much to lose, and as such I don't really see what's everyone getting upset about either.

[kendog77]

You guys are hard to please.  

a) The mars product was just to show that they could set a target and actually deliver somewhat on time.  They delivered.  There is no need to actually bring that product to market.  It will only lose you money and cost them time.  I applaud their decision to drop it.
b) They are nothing like BFL.  BFL would have taken money day 1 and would have insulted you for questioning their time frame or progress.  Comparing the two just makes you sound ignorant.
c) Nobody else is even talking about 28nm technology, these units will be hashing long after others have been turned off due to electricity costs.

I have ordered using Paypal and a CC, there is roughly a %0 chance that I will lose my money from fraud or non-shipment.  I love bitcoin, but this is one of those instances where using bitcoin increases your risk by an infinite amount.  Pay with Paypal and stop all the FUD.

I don't even know why I'm posting this as the less of you that pull the trigger, the better my chances of winning the lotto.

If Paypal covers your purchase for 45 days, how are you protected if the earliest this product will ship is September?

[Bitcoinorama]

You guys are hard to please.  

a) The mars product was just to show that they could set a target and actually deliver somewhat on time.  They delivered.  There is no need to actually bring that product to market.  It will only lose you money and cost them time.  I applaud their decision to drop it.
b) They are nothing like BFL.  BFL would have taken money day 1 and would have insulted you for questioning their time frame or progress.  Comparing the two just makes you sound ignorant.
c) Nobody else is even talking about 28nm technology, these units will be hashing long after others have been turned off due to electricity costs.

I have ordered using Paypal and a CC, there is roughly a %0 chance that I will lose my money from fraud or non-shipment.  I love bitcoin, but this is one of those instances where using bitcoin increases your risk by an infinite amount.  Pay with Paypal and stop all the FUD.

I don't even know why I'm posting this as the less of you that pull the trigger, the better my chances of winning the lotto.

If Paypal covers your purchase for 45 days, how are you protected if the earliest this product will ship is September?

Call your Credit Card company explain the September/October(in case) time of delivery and see if you are still covered after Paypal's 45 days buyer protection finishes. I was surprised they do. That was UK Barclaycard. I rang earlier today and the fraud protection lady said they would. I actually recorded her too! There's actually instances in the past that would have been useful to know...

[FlappySocks]

My confidence in these guys has dropped to zero. Their infrequent news updates invalidates the last.

Why would you be working day & night on a FPGA product you have no intention of shipping?
They were clearly no way near full production of the Mars.  

At least with the Mars you were getting something for your money. Now we are being asked to fund the ASIC development, with all the risks.

BFL all over again.  I'm out.  Open to offers for my place in the queue.

[mat542]

Guys, do you know if with "Gold mastercard" we're having a sort of extended warranty with Paypal ?
Like more than 45 days ?

Call them. Their number is on your "Gold mastercard"

[Gyrsur]

bump

[Flying Hellfish]

This is puzzling.

They say in the newsletter they wouldn't be taking money before showing a working prototype... But then they cancel the "Mars" product, which is the only existing working prototype (and it's a FPGA, not an ASIC!!!!!), while they open payments for the Jupiters and Saturn (ASICs), for which a prototype is yet to be seen, and we have to pay in the next 7 days or we lose your spot in the queue? Plus, they make a lottery in order to get as many customers paying in the next 48 hours, starting from now?

I'm the only one reading some contradictions in all this?

It's called "bait and switch".

I had high hopes for this company, so it's really a shame that they're pulling the same stunts as all the other ASIC manufacturers. FPGA miners have been available for months, so it's really not that impressive to demonstrate a working FPGA miner.

Giving a company pre-order money in hopes of getting a working ASIC miner months later reminds me a lot of betting on a horse race. If you bet on the right horse, you can make a lot of money (Avalon or ASICMiner stock). If you bet on the wrong horse (BFL), you could be left with nothing.

I really hope a very large semiconductor company recognizes the potential of bitcoin mining in the near future and enters the market so we can put an end to all these shenanigans once and for all.

+1000

This wild west cowboy pre-order horse shit is getting old FAST.  Long term (at least in bitcoin terms) interest free loans (which is what I consider all this pre-order BS) are a stone cold gamble on the lenders (purchasers) part and a wet fucking dream come true for the developing company.

So good luck to all the gamblers pre-ordering enjoy shouldering the majority of the risk for yet another start up ASIC manufacture.

[canth]

Heh. You should start a ASIC-dream manufacturing company. They nearly all end up being successful, from the seller's POV.

[arch]

 

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period.

8.3  If the delivery is prevented due to the Purchaser’s negligent acts or omissions, the risk for the Products shall pass to the Purchaser on the date when the Products were ready for delivery. In case of any damage to delivered Products and/or its packaging, the Purchaser is solely responsible for making any reservation or claim for compensation in relation to the relevant appropriate logistics/freight company.

[flowdab]

 

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period.

8.3  If the delivery is prevented due to the Purchaser’s negligent acts or omissions, the risk for the Products shall pass to the Purchaser on the date when the Products were ready for delivery. In case of any damage to delivered Products and/or its packaging, the Purchaser is solely responsible for making any reservation or claim for compensation in relation to the relevant appropriate logistics/freight company.

This is the largest issue for me. This product is only viable if it is delivered in a timely fashion. If it is not delivered in a timely fashion we stand to lose thousands of dollars. I just don't know if I can pull the trigger on this. . . .

[kendog77]

 

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

8.2  Where delivery is delayed due to any of the circumstances constituting force majeure in accordance with 11 below or due to any act or omission by the Purchaser, the delivery period shall be extended by such a period as is reasonable in light of the circumstances.  The delivery period shall also be extended where the cause of the delay arises after the expiry of the originally agreed delivery period.

8.3  If the delivery is prevented due to the Purchaser’s negligent acts or omissions, the risk for the Products shall pass to the Purchaser on the date when the Products were ready for delivery. In case of any damage to delivered Products and/or its packaging, the Purchaser is solely responsible for making any reservation or claim for compensation in relation to the relevant appropriate logistics/freight company.

This is the largest issue for me. This product is only viable if it is delivered in a timely fashion. If it is not delivered in a timely fashion we stand to lose thousands of dollars. I just don't know if I can pull the trigger on this. . . .

The other risk to consider, and it's not a small one, is the value of BTC crashing. If you purchase a miner for 7k in fiat, and it mines BTC that is only worth a fraction of what it is now, ROI could be difficult. One could mitigate this risk by paying with BTC assuming they already have it and don't have to buy it first.

I bet most of us are bullish on the value of BTC or else we wouldn't be mining, but it's still something to consider.

[Trolololo]

I have a preorder for a Saturn. Before checking out, I have sent them an email asking for the delivery date. I will post the answer (if any) in this thread.

[knarfske]

My account states the following:

Customer group: 1-500 customers

Does this mean that I have a pre-order? I thought I ordered a product but do not see 1 in my history although my accounts states that I"m in the customer group 1-500 whatever that may be