iCEBREAKER
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Activity: 2156
Merit: 1072
Crypto is the separation of Power and State.
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October 04, 2016, 07:08:00 AM |
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Classic is coming, like it or not. The alternative is to go down with a ship full of corecoins or popescucoins.
Damn, I wish I had taken Peter_R's ">1mb blocks on the longest chain by July 2016" bet ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=68655.msg11881436#msg11881436). It would have triggered majamalu so hard when I donated my winnings to theymos and Core.  |
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phreaky
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October 04, 2016, 08:24:07 AM |
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Hoping prices are going up quickly again instead of balacing out around 610 there's been no movement for a while just steady ups and downs.
Waiting for the right time to sell now hoping it is soon can use some extra cash.
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
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October 04, 2016, 09:47:29 AM |
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becoin
Legendary
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Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
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October 04, 2016, 10:17:36 AM |
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I, personally, will not be satisfied with the robustness of the network until it's running smoothly on a global wireless mesh network which is practically impossible to "switch off" or censor.
My thoughts are the same. It must be build to connect mining pools first. |
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Fatman3001
Legendary
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Activity: 1554
Merit: 1014
Make Bitcoin glow with ENIAC
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October 04, 2016, 10:24:46 AM |
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savetherainforest
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October 04, 2016, 11:59:40 AM |
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Hmmm...?? ... This feels like a warning.... "The Club" really wants the people to have crypto??  *edit: Or its just being forced upon everyone to get the customs of the new generation online culture... or better said "the online elite culture". Or they are just trying to get ahead the curve. |
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coins101
Legendary
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Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
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October 04, 2016, 12:00:59 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. |
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AlexGR
Legendary
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Activity: 1708
Merit: 1049
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October 04, 2016, 12:48:06 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. In the end of the day, what matters is how much you sent and how much the other party got (or how much you got, when the other sent them). When the other party tells you that "hey you have sent 1000$, but I only got 950$ so you need to send another 50$", at that point you learn about the hidden fees. Or when you sell something through paypal for 100$ and you end up getting 97$, it's pretty visible too. With bitcoin fees of $0.00x to $0.1x , at least we don't have such worries. If paypal isn't a deal breaker with its 35 cents + % on each payment, and bank wires and western unions aren't deal breakers with all their charges, then why do we even bother with the near-zero fees of bitcoin? The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc). |
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becoin
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3431
Merit: 1233
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October 04, 2016, 01:04:00 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. You don't have any clue what're you talking about! |
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Elwar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
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October 04, 2016, 01:10:26 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. In the end of the day, what matters is how much you sent and how much the other party got (or how much you got, when the other sent them). When the other party tells you that "hey you have sent 1000$, but I only got 950$ so you need to send another 50$", at that point you learn about the hidden fees. Or when you sell something through paypal for 100$ and you end up getting 97$, it's pretty visible too. With bitcoin fees of $0.00x to $0.1x , at least we don't have such worries. If paypal isn't a deal breaker with its 35 cents + % on each payment, and bank wires and western unions aren't deal breakers with all their charges, then why do we even bother with the near-zero fees of bitcoin? The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc). When you go to spend bitcoins you see the dollar amount of $X and then a QR code that says send Y bitcoins to this address. Do you think people actually go to the exchange to check the price then open a calculator to figure out if the bitcoin value they are sending is the latest value? As someone who spends bitcoins all the time, I assure you they do not. If there's a .00001 BTC fee added to the .28421482 price I'm paying it's not deterring me from spending. |
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
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October 04, 2016, 02:21:25 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. You don't have any clue what're you talking about! After spending $100k on focus groups to identify appropriate fee structures for remittances, I can assure you adverts like this highlighting zero fees are no mistake:    So, I can assure you of this: you have no clue about consumers perception of fees. |
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
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October 04, 2016, 02:28:39 PM |
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...
The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc).
If you do enough transactions, fees become an issue: https://youtu.be/1-z-zTBHOO8?t=14m14s |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
 Online
Activity: 4200
Merit: 12927
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to "non-custodial"
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October 04, 2016, 04:52:14 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. In the end of the day, what matters is how much you sent and how much the other party got (or how much you got, when the other sent them). When the other party tells you that "hey you have sent 1000$, but I only got 950$ so you need to send another 50$", at that point you learn about the hidden fees. Or when you sell something through paypal for 100$ and you end up getting 97$, it's pretty visible too. With bitcoin fees of $0.00x to $0.1x , at least we don't have such worries. If paypal isn't a deal breaker with its 35 cents + % on each payment, and bank wires and western unions aren't deal breakers with all their charges, then why do we even bother with the near-zero fees of bitcoin? The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc). When you go to spend bitcoins you see the dollar amount of $X and then a QR code that says send Y bitcoins to this address. Do you think people actually go to the exchange to check the price then open a calculator to figure out if the bitcoin value they are sending is the latest value? As someone who spends bitcoins all the time, I assure you they do not. If there's a .00001 BTC fee added to the .28421482 price I'm paying it's not deterring me from spending. I believe that you are correct about a kind of laziness that is likely to exist with figuring out fees, and surely people prefer whatever wallets or systems to figure out the fee and to be reasonable. However, if the system is caught to be unreasonable with its fees then they may look into it more. About a year ago, I had done a bit of an experiment with the fees in blockchain.info wallet, and I varied the fees between about $.08 and $.001. At around $.04 and above there was no difference in send times. Recently, on a couple of occasions, I had noticed that the standard fees calculated through a couple of mycelium wallets added up to about $.45, and the first occasion I did not realize it until afterwards, and the second occasion I tried to talk the guy into fixing the fee, but since he was sending me about $2,000 in value, I concluded that it really did not matter to me, whether the fee was $.45 or $.08, I just wanted to expedite the situation and make sure that the transaction was completed. |
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JayJuanGee
Legendary
Online
Activity: 4200
Merit: 12927
Self-Custody is a right. Say no to "non-custodial"
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October 04, 2016, 04:56:14 PM |
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All you have to do is look at your nearest bureaux de change to understand that fees are 100% the issue. Nearly all bureauxs de change will advertize zero fees. Even many remittances providers claim zero fees on international transactions. Why? Because the masses are easily fooled. They see zero fees for these services, credit cards, banking, paypal, etc and they assume it's a free lunch. So they fill their boots on these services. Having deployed a currency product aimed at consumers, I can, with 100% certainty, tell you this is the case. General consumers have no clue that all the profit margins are made on the currency conversion; and if they try to check it, the rates are too confusing to work out, so they just look a the big sign that says zero fees and off they go. The average remittance value is $200/month, and its sent by people, on average, with little or no education. Fees are a deal breaker for mass adoption. Which, to stay on topic, is a deal breaker for Bitcoin demand and therefore its price; especially in one of its biggest markets: $600bn/year remittances. You don't have any clue what're you talking about! After spending $100k on focus groups to identify appropriate fee structures for remittances, I can assure you adverts like this highlighting zero fees are no mistake: [https://i.imgur.com/Fy22PHP.png[/img] [https://i.imgur.com/repPwhz.png[/img] [https://i.imgur.com/XkEo5Ud.jpg[/img] So, I can assure you of this: you have no clue about consumers perception of fees. I believe that the assertion that you do not know what you are talking about comes about from your various bold assertions regarding problems with bitcoin, rather than actual facts that you are divulging and discussing concerning industry remittance practices. You may bring up some decent facts regarding those industry remittance practices, but your connections and conclusions about bitcoin remain lame at best. By the way, you are correct when you suggest that hidden fees are likely to make a bigger difference when the system is used more frequently by someone, and sometimes the advertisement may be aimed at getting someone in the door, but it may not keep them in the door if they come to realize that they are being charged much higher than the advertised fees. Wether they stay in the door or not may well depend on their assessment of their available alternatives, whether that be bitcoin or some other perceived lower cost service. |
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JimboToronto
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4494
Merit: 5817
You're never too old to think young.
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October 04, 2016, 05:05:01 PM |
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Good AM BTCland. Slept in a little today. Normally I'm up by the crack of noon.
Still no change... $612 on Bitcoinaverage.
Not a lot to talk about in this thread (except the ongoing block size debate, in which I refuse to become involved) until we see some real movement.
___________
In the meantime Adam is conspicuous by his absence. He seems to be around the other forum (the one with Chartbuddy) so I gather he's avoiding/boycotting this one.
Anyone know why, except for his obvious disagreement in the aforementioned block size issue? He came back quickly after his mini-ban a few months ago. Any reason why it's different this time?
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Meuh6879
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1012
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October 04, 2016, 05:06:52 PM |
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...
The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc).
If you do enough transactions, fees become an issue: https://youtu.be/1-z-zTBHOO8?t=14m14sand this is called a SPAM protection.  |
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jertsy
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October 04, 2016, 05:19:56 PM |
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Good AM BTCland. Slept in a little today. Normally I'm up by the crack of noon.
Still no change... $612 on Bitcoinaverage.
Not a lot to talk about in this thread (except the ongoing block size debate, in which I refuse to become involved) until we see some real movement.
___________
In the meantime Adam is conspicuous by his absence. He seems to be around the other forum (the one with Chartbuddy) so I gather he's avoiding/boycotting this one.
Anyone know why, except for his obvious disagreement in the aforementioned block size issue? He came back quickly after his mini-ban a few months ago. Any reason why it's different this time?
The price has been going sideways for two months and there's absolutely nothing happening. He's probably too bored to post here. He'll start posting here if there is a major event like an exchange hack, or Bitcoin doubling in price. |
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coins101
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1456
Merit: 1001
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October 04, 2016, 05:21:22 PM |
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...
The actual fees attached to bitcoin are all connected to the legacy and centralized systems (fiat conversions, exchanges, etc).
If you do enough transactions, fees become an issue: https://youtu.be/1-z-zTBHOO8?t=14m14sand this is called a SPAM protection. No issue with using small fees to prevent spam attacks. But $10, $10, $50? That's international bank wire fees. So, high fees = why bother going through the hassle of changing up fiat to Bitcoin, then being charged as much as a bank wire; before the other end have to convert Bitcoin to fiat. Does spam protection mean: Lets put up a barrier to users, that way we can keep small blocks? That's just bollocks. The fee the market would settle on should be minimal. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1391350.0 |
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Poll
