Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Oh! Stupid Satoshi, you were so wrong.

No me nades en la superficie... adéntrate, sumérgete en la profundidad del planteamiento que te quiero transmitir: El futuro está en la capa 2.

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[Ibian]

BIG BLOCKER nutjobs REEEEEEEEE!

Suggest a better (implementable in the real world) alternative for getting more throughput. Any of you.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

Just replace Safety with Throughput.

Be patient, people! The scaling problem will be solved, and it will be solved in the right way, and for the long term. Nobody wants a temporary "patch" that requires a hard fork and compromises decentralization. When there are valid reasons to increase the block size, it will be done.

Except that's not even an analogy, that's just replacing one word with another in an unrelated sentence.

Also define "valid reason". We dislike sophism around here.

[gentlemand]

There are three things you don't take from people: Life, food, and dignity. That's barbaric and will lead to a backlash.

It's already in place in many countries and you have the option to say no. Personally I couldn't give a shit what happens to my carcass apart from use in porno unless my black and puffy face is covered up. And my tattoos.

[Ibian]

There are three things you don't take from people: Life, food, and dignity. That's barbaric and will lead to a backlash.

It's already in place in many countries and you have the option to say no. Personally I couldn't give a shit what happens to my carcass apart from use in porno unless my black and puffy face is covered up. And my tattoos.

It's not about you.

[gentlemand]

It's not about you.

And you can say no any time.

[Torque]

I do not consider increasing blocks a good solution. It does not scale while the negative consequences for decentralisation are unclear. Since Bitcoin’s only true value lies in ‘decentralisation’, I support not hastily moving away from this core concept just to solve a current - perceived as immediate - issue. There is too much at stake.

Big data centers will always do better than hobby miners no matter what the code looks like. This whole fear of mining centralization is not only unfounded as it has been happening from day one, and will continue to do so, it is stupid.

So let's all just use PayPal and be done with Bitcoin. It already performs much better as a currency system, yeah?

I'll go on record to say that if Bitcoin's transactions are restricted to on-chain only, then regardless of block size, PayPal will ALWAYS be faster, cheaper, and more efficient. But inflate that block size to your heart's desire.

[Ibian]

I do not consider increasing blocks a good solution. It does not scale while the negative consequences for decentralisation are unclear. Since Bitcoin’s only true value lies in ‘decentralisation’, I support not hastily moving away from this core concept just to solve a current - perceived as immediate - issue. There is too much at stake.

Maybe you are right, bigger blocks do not scale. But increasing the current size is a requirement for climbing. Check the LN white paper and note the block size needed so that each person can open and close a channel once a year using segwit.

There are already 2 different solutions ready for implementation (they might be already in the test stage, for all I know) to bundle multiple channel opening transactions into a single blockchain event - similar to what CoinJoin does. The fee would get split among the openers. The more you're willing to wait for a larger pool of channel openers, the less you pay. The same mechanism can be used to fund channels with exhausted capacity. This seems an excellent way to go for the time being. I'm confident more sophisticated stuff will come along.

That sounds like an excellent idea, depending how big the overall effect would be.

Now what we should really do is force the big actors to embrace segwit, so LN can flourish. Like, some heavy user lobbying on Coinbase. Of course, more variety and competition in the exchange market can't hurt.

Am I understanding it correctly that LN only works with segwit?

[TERA2]

Possible "dividend" shit forks for hodlers, what a list...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bitcoin_forks

Lets not call them dividends because you have to pay taxes on those.

[Ibian]

I do not consider increasing blocks a good solution. It does not scale while the negative consequences for decentralisation are unclear. Since Bitcoin’s only true value lies in ‘decentralisation’, I support not hastily moving away from this core concept just to solve a current - perceived as immediate - issue. There is too much at stake.

Big data centers will always do better than hobby miners no matter what the code looks like. This whole fear of mining centralization is not only unfounded as it has been happening from day one, and will continue to do so, it is stupid.

So let's all just use PayPal and be done with Bitcoin. It already performs much better as a currency system, yeah?

I'll go on record to say that if Bitcoin's transactions are restricted to on-chain only, then regardless of block size, PayPal will ALWAYS be faster, cheaper, and more efficient. But inflate that block size to your heart's desire.

How about you address the argument for once.

[Ibian]

It's not about you.

And you can say no any time.

Can your family say no after you are dead?

[gentlemand]

Can your family say no after you are dead?

Dunno. Don't care. I'll be kinda dead. They can make Christmas decorations out of a bucket of my gonads for all I care.

[Torque]

I do not consider increasing blocks a good solution. It does not scale while the negative consequences for decentralisation are unclear. Since Bitcoin’s only true value lies in ‘decentralisation’, I support not hastily moving away from this core concept just to solve a current - perceived as immediate - issue. There is too much at stake.

Big data centers will always do better than hobby miners no matter what the code looks like. This whole fear of mining centralization is not only unfounded as it has been happening from day one, and will continue to do so, it is stupid.

So let's all just use PayPal and be done with Bitcoin. It already performs much better as a currency system, yeah?

I'll go on record to say that if Bitcoin's transactions are restricted to on-chain only, then regardless of block size, PayPal will ALWAYS be faster, cheaper, and more efficient. But inflate that block size to your heart's desire.

How about you address the argument for once.

And how about you address the fact that bigger blocks and on-chain transactions alone will never allow Bitcoin to compete with PayPal, Visa, MC, or any other digital currency based system. Not even in the short term.

[Gab0]

And once again ... Satoshi was wrong.
Good to have geniuses like your Torque. Thank you for enlightening us with your wisdom.
Now ... if Satoshi was so wrong, why do not we just rewrite the white paper?

.....

Oh! Stupid Satoshi, you were so wrong.

Quit being a trite tool. It's the reason people here don't take you seriously and many have you on ignore.

It doesn't matter what Satoshi originally envisioned as Bitcoin's proposed/intended usage, it only matters how the people that buy it actually use it. It saw almost nil usage as a currency even back when transaction fees were low. Disregarding transaction fees and long confirmation times, it's deflationary nature alone, combined with all the hoop jumping required just to acquire it, nearly kills it as a daily currency. It functions much better as a decentralized digital asset that stores value. That's a fact and nothing you can allude to wrt "Satoshi's original vision" can change that.

Even pre-teens and teens use paper currencies around the world on a daily basis, but hell they can't even purchase Bitcoin without being 18+ yrs old and having a drivers license and a bank account first. How about that fkn irony, Satoshi? Should we add an addendum in the white paper for that too?

Grow the fk up and quit making tool statements.

Torque, you're wrong. People need a coin. Having a decentralized asset, outside the influence of governments, of course it is important; but for ordinary people, it is much more important to have a decentralized currency.

I do not agree either that bitcoin was not used as a currency. The great success of bitcoin came from the hand of black markets. The world could see that it was a real, useful alternative, and outside the influence of governments. And if it were still cheap to make payments, I'm sure the commerce would continue to develop.
Until recently, we saw an organic development of the ecosystem, in which savers, traders, commerce, investors grew symbiotically. Today, commerce has no alternative, and simply bitcoin is being used as an asset for the speculation of the new rich.

I have already told my experience here many times, but Bitcoin for me and many other people, in a third world country, represents much more than an asset. And that is the vision that I always discuss, because here it is much more important to have decentralized money. The rich already have hundreds of assets with which to have fun, and it bothers me to think that bitcoin becomes one more of them.

Edit:My first bitcoins I bought them on the street, without a bank account.


For the other two comments of shit, I do not defend a dogma, but a vision. I like the side chains, but it seems to me that the blockchain must be accessible to anyone.

[itod]

Am I understanding it correctly that LN only works with segwit?

Why would it work only with segwit? I see no technical reason, but segwit adoption would certainly help LN to make opening/closing LN channels cheaper.

[Last of the V8s]

I am the very model of a Very Stable Genius.
I have a mighty button and no problems with my penius.
I have no time for television, golf, or social media
Since my brain is way way better than the best encyclopedia.

I like to tweet the lies of racist grievances historical
When Russian ties are mentioned I deny them categorical
I do not feel the sting of words because I am avenious
I am the very model of a Very Stable Genius!

“I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters self-devotional.”
(Good thing I beat a lady out, ‘cause ladies get emotional.)”
So said the guy in charge now of a land led by a weeny (us),
A madly modern model of a Very Stable Genius.

I am large and I am orange and my hair is all original.
I have no time for anyone who is vaguely aboriginal.
My enemies are guilty, all, of crimes most dark and heinous.
I am the very model of a Very Stable Genuous.

I have around me sycophants
And a modern major general
On the pot, at night I tweet
With logic that's ephemeral
I get to skate on crimes that
Others normally find hein-ious
I am the very model of a Very Stable Genious

pol/twitter

[HairyMaclairy]

Are you big blockers still hanging around in here?

Don’t you have something better to do, like shilling Naga to noobs?

[Ibian]

Even pre-teens and teens use paper currencies around the world on a daily basis, but hell they can't even purchase Bitcoin without being 18+ yrs old and having a drivers license and a bank account first. How about that fkn irony, Satoshi? Should we add an addendum in the white paper for that too?

There is localbitcoins for that. Just putting that out there.

[Gab0]

Oh! Stupid Satoshi, you were so wrong.

No me nades en la superficie... adéntrate, sumérgete en la profundidad del planteamiento que te quiero transmitir: El futuro está en la capa 2.

jajajaj Muy poético.
Gracias. Lo sé, sé que el futuro está en las segundas capas; de hecho me gustan. No es eso lo que discuto.

[Ibian]

Can your family say no after you are dead?

Dunno. Don't care. I'll be kinda dead. They can make Christmas decorations out of a bucket of my gonads for all I care.

So you... don't care how your family feels about it. Alright.

[HairyMaclairy]

Even pre-teens and teens use paper currencies around the world on a daily basis, but hell they can't even purchase Bitcoin without being 18+ yrs old and having a drivers license and a bank account first. How about that fkn irony, Satoshi? Should we add an addendum in the white paper for that too?

There is localbitcoins for that. Just putting that out there.

There are teenagers in places other than the USA where those rules don’t apply.