Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Arriemoller]

And, yea, I'm grumpy today, I'm out of milk for my breakfast.
Yes I eat breakfast while reading up on this thread.
Anything else you want to know?

Haha, you´re to much. Try bacon with eggs for a change. Just once. I mean, we have to die sooner or later anyway . . .  

And i read somewhere: eggs are not as bad after all. They are just small chicken.

Yes they are, and I do like to devour the unborn for breakfast every now and then, bur are you saying that I can't have milk with my bacon and eggs?

[Neo_Coin]

ETH regular up, and now BTC...

[Phil_S]

WTF bitcoin selling off again. Just go up you bastard, it's the future for christs sake.

It helps if you just mentally write January off, and prepare for epic February action.

[HairyMaclairy]

Is there anyone here who can read charts?

If so can they tell me what happened on January 9, 2017?

And can they tell me what happened on January 10, 2017?

[Rosewater Foundation]

Is there anyone here who can read charts?

If so can they tell me what happened on January 9, 2017?

And can they tell me what happened on January 10, 2017?

I studied charting at the feet of some of the great masters, and can predict the future well in advance. Unfortunately, not moments ago, I allowed myself to be persuaded to write-off the whole month of January.

[Phil_S]

January 2017 sure had some moments.

I don't read charts, but I do enjoy looking at them for hours and hours. It's like looking at fire, or maybe an ocean.

https://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg90zigHourlyzczsg2017-01-01zeg2017-01-31ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv

[Rosewater Foundation]

I can say this. I do believe, notwithstanding any feelings we may have about the current price action, that we are engaged in an endeavour of great advantage and historical significance.

Carry on

[Mythase]

I think the FUD on BTC holders is at an all time high right now.
Noobs on all reddits / telegram mock BTC holders and show off their portfolios full of shitcoin gains.
Will this shitshow ever end?
The FUD is starting to get to me...

Are you feeling the same psychological FUD?

[HairyMaclairy]

Pack of ingrates.  Make me do my own dirty work.

[BitcoinBunny]

I think the FUD on BTC holders is at an all time high right now.
Noobs on all reddits / telegram mock BTC holders and show off their portfolios full of shitcoin gains.
Will this shitshow ever end?
The FUD is starting to get to me...

Are you feeling the same psychological FUD?

Crypto has gone kinda mainstream the last few months it seems to me.
Many people jumping into altcoins.

I'm not sure this is sustainable in the long term.
Sure some of them have value and might be useful for something specific or globally and will be there to stay I'm sure but many small ones are now also valued at $10 million+ or even $100+ million when they only have a white paper, a few devs and a website that might not work well and possibly no product yet.
Those simple components never normally make a $10 million company.

It's like a mad rush into penny stocks surely?

But to me all that trading actually strengthens Bitcoin itself regardless. It is almost always the only means by which you can purchase any of these alts. (I admit ETH / LTC / USDT are used a lot too)
Bitcoin is doing what it is supposed to do whilst these alts really will have to prove themselves over the next year or two.

I'm sure many will collapse. But will they all collapse at once is the question I guess.

[ragnar0k]

I think the FUD on BTC holders is at an all time high right now.
Noobs on all reddits / telegram mock BTC holders and show off their portfolios full of shitcoin gains.
Will this shitshow ever end?
The FUD is starting to get to me...

Are you feeling the same psychological FUD?

Crypto has gone kinda mainstream the last few months it seems to me.
Many people jumping into altcoins.

I'm not sure this is sustainable in the long term.
Sure some of them have value and might be useful for something specific or globally and will be there to stay I'm sure but many small ones are now also valued at $10 million+ or even $100+ million when they only have a white paper, a few devs and a website that might not work well and possibly no product yet.
Those simple components never normally make a $10 million company.

It's like a mad rush into penny stocks surely?

But to me all that trading actually strengthens Bitcoin itself regardless. It is almost always the only means by which you can purchase any of these alts. (I admit ETH / LTC / USDT are used a lot too)
Bitcoin is doing what it is supposed to do whilst these alts really will have to prove themselves over the next year or two.

I'm sure many will collapse. But will they all collapse at once is the question I guess.

I think we are at a crossroad now. Either btc is going to pursue this new trendline or is going to tank hard and go back to the pevious one, taking alts and such with it (as it did yesterday).
Alts that do not intentionally attack btc do not concern me too much, as they come and go, eventually they will develop a market on their own as the top 3 cryptos will become less of a speculative investment (hopefully)

[HairyMaclairy]

Well this is a shame.


https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/08/fund-managers-say-bitcoin-etf-proposals-withdrawn-due-to-sec-concern.html

[afbitcoins]

Segwit. Bech32. MAST. Signature aggregation. Key aggregation. Batch validation. Covenants. CT & bullet proofs. Dandelion. Neutrino. Tx compression. Set reconciliation for tx relay. Block template delta compression. NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED. UTXO commitments. TXO commitments. TXO bitfields. Rolling UTXO set hashes. Client-side validation. Peer encryption & auth. Fraud proofs. Scriptless atomic swaps. Zerolink/tumblebit. [Cut:] layer 2, HF rsrch, bip 8. (@rusty_twit)
and a paaartridge in a pear tree

<huge image deleted>

That's exactly what I'm talking about, that just made my brain hurt, without telling me how to use it.

A few observations about the graphic.

The picture of the network is highly distorted, showing only 3 end users! when really theres hundred of thousands or millions potentially. HIghly connected hubs will be numbered in the hundreds (I feel I'm being generous with that number). That is a highly centralised network, nothing like the depiction.

I doubt many people use a hot wallet for everyday spending. The use case in which people have a spending wallet is already defunct. Who spends bitcoin when the fees are more than the cost of the purchase, you don't spend it.

The promise of low fees on LN was also made onchain in the early days. When I first used bitcoin most people didnt even put a fee. I suspect fees will not be low on LN, only lower than onchain fees.

 

When the internet appeared I was sure it would fail because I could not imaging a scenario where companies would pay to run expensive undersea cables that keep up with the demand (and all the other infrastructure) - and let me use it for 'free'. Somehow it works. This time I'm am keeping an open mind. There is enough money on the table so I'm sure something workable will emerge.

When bitcoin first appeared I imagined a world of peer to peer payments with no central institutions. LN is most definately not that.

The graphic tries to show how funding a channel is like funding a 'hot wallet'. A more accurate description is that funding a channel is like depositing money with a bank.

I always said LN will be supported by big money. No doubt there will be an epic pump, because 'scalability is solved'. I don't like it but I can profit from it. The original dream of bitcoin doesn't exist though.

[AlexGR]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01-09/jamie-dimon-i-regret-calling-bitcoin-fraud

Jamie Dimon: "I Regret Calling Bitcoin A Fraud"
...
Less than four months after Jamie Dimon lashed out at bitcoin, warning that it was would "eventually blow up" because it was "worse than tulip bulbs" and that "any trader trading bitcoin" will be "fired for being stupid", the JPMorgan CEO said he "regrets" his infamous criticism of bitcoin, in which he called the cryptocurrency a "fraud."

In an interview with FOX Business' Maria Bartiromo, Dimon repented, softening the comments he made in a September banking conference, saying "I regret making them."

[ragnar0k]

When bitcoin first appeared I imagined a world of peer to peer payments with no central institutions. LN is most definately not that.

The graphic tries to show how funding a channel is like funding a 'hot wallet'. A more accurate description is that funding a channel is like depositing money with a bank.

I always said LN will be supported by big money. No doubt there will be an epic pump, because 'scalability is solved'. I don't like it but I can profit from it. The original dream of bitcoin doesn't exist though.

Wrong. LN is just a spec, how it is implemented will be up to the service. For example, it could go through a series of TOR nodes (slower), or could be implemented by the likes of expressvpn and such - or vendors will choose a solution for that, hopefully making a choice will be easy. There are tons of options, and if you don't like any of them, you can still stick to segwit

[BitcoinBunny]

Segwit. Bech32. MAST. Signature aggregation. Key aggregation. Batch validation. Covenants. CT & bullet proofs. Dandelion. Neutrino. Tx compression. Set reconciliation for tx relay. Block template delta compression. NODE_NETWORK_LIMITED. UTXO commitments. TXO commitments. TXO bitfields. Rolling UTXO set hashes. Client-side validation. Peer encryption & auth. Fraud proofs. Scriptless atomic swaps. Zerolink/tumblebit. [Cut:] layer 2, HF rsrch, bip 8. (@rusty_twit)
and a paaartridge in a pear tree

<huge image deleted>

That's exactly what I'm talking about, that just made my brain hurt, without telling me how to use it.

A few observations about the graphic.

The picture of the network is highly distorted, showing only 3 end users! when really theres hundred of thousands or millions potentially. HIghly connected hubs will be numbered in the hundreds (I feel I'm being generous with that number). That is a highly centralised network, nothing like the depiction.

I doubt many people use a hot wallet for everyday spending. The use case in which people have a spending wallet is already defunct. Who spends bitcoin when the fees are more than the cost of the purchase, you don't spend it.

The promise of low fees on LN was also made onchain in the early days. When I first used bitcoin most people didnt even put a fee. I suspect fees will not be low on LN, only lower than onchain fees.

 

When the internet appeared I was sure it would fail because I could not imaging a scenario where companies would pay to run expensive undersea cables that keep up with the demand (and all the other infrastructure) - and let me use it for 'free'. Somehow it works. This time I'm am keeping an open mind. There is enough money on the table so I'm sure something workable will emerge.

When bitcoin first appeared I imagined a world of peer to peer payments with no central institutions. LN is most definately not that.

The graphic tries to show how funding a channel is like funding a 'hot wallet'. A more accurate description is that funding a channel is like depositing money with a bank.

I always said LN will be supported by big money. No doubt there will be an epic pump, because 'scalability is solved'. I don't like it but I can profit from it. The original dream of bitcoin doesn't exist though.

I actually would regard using LN as the natural progression of scaling up peer to peer payments. Consider that much of the peer to peer traffic on the internet itself which we used to have has moved more to peer - "cloud" - peer system. Can't remember the last time I used a torrent program to get data.

Of course I wouldn't want banks involved in LN but if BTC is really going to replace all digital payments I think LN will have to exist. Vendors already usually only get paid out no more than once per day from payment gateways etc.

Also this would make it possible to accept BTC in a plane or even in space, who the hell knows what will be possible in the future.

[d_eddie]

Well this is a shame.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/08/fund-managers-say-bitcoin-etf-proposals-withdrawn-due-to-sec-concern.html

Translation of SEC concerns: "Futures as implemented now are totally inadequate since they can't manipulate the price."

At least the way I understand it.

[d_eddie]

I actually would regard using LN as the natural progression of scaling up peer to peer payments. Consider that much of the peer to peer traffic on the internet itself which we used to have has moved more to peer - "cloud" - peer system.

Good parallel.

Can't remember the last time I used a torrent program to get data.

... but if some data should get censored everywhere from "cloud peer" systems, it would spread through torrents like wildfire. That is, base blockchain transfers will always be an option, no matter what.

[afbitcoins]

I actually would regard using LN as the natural progression of scaling up peer to peer payments. Consider that much of the peer to peer traffic on the internet itself which we used to have has moved more to peer - "cloud" - peer system.

Good parallel.

Can't remember the last time I used a torrent program to get data.

... but if some data should get censored everywhere from "cloud peer" systems, it would spread through torrents like wildfire. That is, base blockchain transfers will always be an option, no matter what.

Not sure if I understood that correctly but if I did, I could view torrents being replaced by cloud services as a regression from a decentralised system back towards a more centralised one. Cloud services are provided by a small number of large companies. Anyway I still find torrents useful.

But anyway, thanks for a civilised response. I prefer reasoned debate than being told to fuck off.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Naw. The price is way too low now. I'm calling it.