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Question: When will bitcoin reach the top of this bull market (i.e. when will it moon)?
Topped at $13,880 in June - 8 (5.8%)
H2 2019 - 15 (10.8%)
H1 2020 - 26 (18.7%)
H2 2020 - 26 (18.7%)
H1 2021 - 11 (7.9%)
H2 2021 - 27 (19.4%)
H1 2022 - 6 (4.3%)
H2 2022 - 4 (2.9%)
H1 2023 - 0 (0%)
H2 2023 - 2 (1.4%)
2024 or Later - 14 (10.1%)
Total Voters: 139

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March 15, 2019, 09:24:03 AM

What are your thoughts on the kind of person who would murder nearly a hundred people and injure hundreds more?

I am inclined to agree with BTCMillionaire that that individual has forfeited their right to life.  You?
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March 15, 2019, 09:25:49 AM

To get back to our past talk about my excitement for VR.

I have been planning to create a game (VR or non-VR depending on timeline) that incentivizes people to break the auto-pilot lifestyle without them even noticing, should I ever be in the position to do so. You never asked and just assumed my position though, so we got into an argument back then.

I went from being a poor person that everybody claimed would amount to nothing to a degree in Math and self-made fortune. Mostly thanks to a game with proper incentive structures. And I want to recreate the experience for future generations, if I can. Not everybody wants to sacrifice their lives for "the greater good". Especially when the world seems to be set against you. But with the right incentives people might just end up doing so while enjoying themselves.
Education through entertainment is an excellent thing and sometimes comes in surprising forms.

I watched 300, same as anyone else. From there I read Gates of Fire, which is even better. Currently reading On Sparta, and learning things I had never heard about before. Important shit like their council of elders that kept the balance in society, and one of the main reasons they didn't collapse from within like everyone else did. This is stuff we can use to better our own culture, and it all started with an action flick.

80s and 90s cartoons often had the characters summarize the lesson of the episode, same with tv shows.

Couple excellent mangas as well, such as Vinland Saga and Vagabond that are accurate enough to give an idea of how people lived in those times and places and might inspire further reading. Also the occasional anime like Psycho Pass.

What was the game?
I remember learning about morals from stories and cartoons quite fondly as well. I'm very glad that Rick and Morty followed a similar route as one of the more prominent contemporary examples. While we don't know what's going on, and there's apparently no end-goal, why not just make the best of our time here?

Weren't you in your 40s or 50s though? If so, nice to see people of your generation be fond of anime as well. I used to be against it during my early teens cause I deemed it childish (wow edgy). But I'm increasingly enjoying even the more mundane ones, as they make me think about things that I generally wouldn't even consider.


The game was Final Fantasy XI. An MMO that was known for its unforgiving gameplay. You start in a world where you don't know what the fuck you're doing and everything is overwhelmingly hard to accomplish. The learning curve was basically a wall. But the rewards of completing your goals were thrilling and truly felt like an adventure.
It was basically a microcosm of reality, which is what I enjoyed so much about it (in retrospection).

I kept wanting to improve, so I ended up crunching numbers on all the gear, stats, crafts, auction house economics, and so on to improve my own abilities and profits.

Turns out that what I did was just what you would do in Mathematics (although on a very very very basic level, just numbers no abstract stuff), or by large extension with any general real world problems. Trying to optimize crafting (where synthesis could fail, random materials be lost, and high quality items be made with a random chance) turns out to be identical to balancing a portfolio of assets if you ignore the appearance. And thinking about ways to solo/duo/lowman content designed for multiple parties helped me learn how to think way out of the box as well, while still bringing it back to practicable solutions. Coincidentally, after I became really good at the game school went from repeating multiple years and almost being kicked out without a middle school diploma to being really easy, including university. I just learned how to learn solve problems from the game, as well as the perseverance required to do so.


However, the problem with that game was that it was just too hard and/or time consuming (depending on your content of choice). And the market doesn't like that. Games of today are the polar opposite as a result. And my vision is to create a common ground where the masses of casuals can jump right into it, but gradually move up to the experiences I've had in FFXI.

Basically reel the market in with flashy easy drip-feed, and then slowly transform the players into hardcore enthusiasts of challenges of all kind.

Once you feel the adrenaline pumping during something you deemed impossible, followed by the dopamine rush of clearing your impossible challenge, you will keep craving it. And that's where we will hopefully get a new generation of real pioneers (in science, engineering, tech, arts, music etc).
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March 15, 2019, 09:28:17 AM
Last edit: March 15, 2019, 09:38:30 AM by BTCMILLIONAIRE

What are your thoughts on the kind of person who would murder nearly a hundred people and injure hundreds more?

I am inclined to agree with BTCMillionaire that that individual has forfeited their right to life.  You?
This is pretty interesting. Most of my friends from the left argue strongly against this and consider human rights irrevocable. Which I can't find a perspective to understand it from, seeing how human rights are a human creation.

Edit: I say "from the left" but don't mean that as "as opposed to me on the right". I don't even know where I would fall on the political spectrum. I don't care about politics. I care about thinking about problems. On matters of UBI I would probably be "left", and I certainly think drugs should be legalized which seems to be a "left" point as well. That said, I don't think the political spectrum is sufficient to reflect our reality, but in this specific case the friends I'm referring to would easily be understood as "left" by most people today, hence me bringing it up as I would consider you to be more like them in your opinions.
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March 15, 2019, 09:29:32 AM





Grand Theft Crypto


so close

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March 15, 2019, 09:39:03 AM

A Japanese court found Mark Carpels guilty of manipulating the data, but found no evidence of theft.  As a result, the former head of Mt.Gox received two and a half years probation.  Marku's good behavior over the next four years will help him escape prison.
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March 15, 2019, 09:40:59 AM

What are your thoughts on the kind of person who would murder nearly a hundred people and injure hundreds more?

I am inclined to agree with BTCMillionaire that that individual has forfeited their right to life.  You?
This is pretty interesting. Most of my friends from the left argue strongly against this and consider human rights irrevocable. Which I can't find a perspective to understand it from, seeing how human rights are a human creation.

In defence of your leftist friends, we are all humans so being a human creation is not really something we can examine from the outside.  

I would certainly classify myself as leftist.  Champagne socialist if you would like a fitting derogatory term.  

 A death sentence is extreme violence by the State and arguably the most unLibertarian thing ever.  You cannot make an argument for death sentences on economic grounds as the inevitable appeals are more expensive than life sentences. On this basis it seems to me that the right should be against death sentences but never mind that.

All said, it seems an appropriate sanction for the most heinous of crimes, even if it does cost the tax payer more. Consider it an investment in ensuring the individual never sees the light of day.
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March 15, 2019, 09:46:26 AM

To get back to our past talk about my excitement for VR.

I have been planning to create a game (VR or non-VR depending on timeline) that incentivizes people to break the auto-pilot lifestyle without them even noticing, should I ever be in the position to do so. You never asked and just assumed my position though, so we got into an argument back then.

I went from being a poor person that everybody claimed would amount to nothing to a degree in Math and self-made fortune. Mostly thanks to a game with proper incentive structures. And I want to recreate the experience for future generations, if I can. Not everybody wants to sacrifice their lives for "the greater good". Especially when the world seems to be set against you. But with the right incentives people might just end up doing so while enjoying themselves.
Education through entertainment is an excellent thing and sometimes comes in surprising forms.

I watched 300, same as anyone else. From there I read Gates of Fire, which is even better. Currently reading On Sparta, and learning things I had never heard about before. Important shit like their council of elders that kept the balance in society, and one of the main reasons they didn't collapse from within like everyone else did. This is stuff we can use to better our own culture, and it all started with an action flick.

80s and 90s cartoons often had the characters summarize the lesson of the episode, same with tv shows.

Couple excellent mangas as well, such as Vinland Saga and Vagabond that are accurate enough to give an idea of how people lived in those times and places and might inspire further reading. Also the occasional anime like Psycho Pass.

What was the game?
I remember learning about morals from stories and cartoons quite fondly as well. I'm very glad that Rick and Morty followed a similar route as one of the more prominent contemporary examples. While we don't know what's going on, and there's apparently no end-goal, why not just make the best of our time here?

Weren't you in your 40s or 50s though? If so, nice to see people of your generation be fond of anime as well. I used to be against it during my early teens cause I deemed it childish (wow edgy). But I'm increasingly enjoying even the more mundane ones, as they make me think about things that I generally wouldn't even consider.
30s. Apparently "young" for this place. Which is a shame. The young need money more than the old right now but lack the knowledge to understand what makes bitcoin valuable.

The game was Final Fantasy XI. An MMO that was known for its unforgiving gameplay. You start in a world where you don't know what the fuck you're doing and everything is overwhelmingly hard to accomplish. The learning curve was basically a wall. But the rewards of completing your goals were thrilling and truly felt like an adventure.
It was basically a microcosm of reality, which is what I enjoyed so much about it (in retrospection).

I kept wanting to improve, so I ended up crunching numbers on all the gear, stats, crafts, auction house economics, and so on to improve my own abilities and profits.

Turns out that what I did was just what you would do in Mathematics (although on a very very very basic level, just numbers no abstract stuff), or by large extension with any general real world problems. Trying to optimize crafting (where synthesis could fail, random materials be lost, and high quality items be made with a random chance) turns out to be identical to balancing a portfolio of assets if you ignore the appearance. And thinking about ways to solo/duo/lowman content designed for multiple parties helped me learn how to think way out of the box as well, while still bringing it back to practicable solutions. Coincidentally, after I became really good at the game school went from repeating multiple years and almost being kicked out without a middle school diploma to being really easy, including university. I just learned how to learn solve problems from the game, as well as the perseverance required to do so.


However, the problem with that game was that it was just too hard and/or time consuming (depending on your content of choice). And the market doesn't like that. Games of today are the polar opposite as a result. And my vision is to create a common ground where the masses of casuals can jump right into it, but gradually move up to the experiences I've had in FFXI.

Basically reel the market in with flashy easy drip-feed, and then slowly transform the players into hardcore enthusiasts of challenges of all kind.

Once you feel the adrenaline pumping during something you deemed impossible, followed by the dopamine rush of clearing your impossible challenge, you will keep craving it. And that's where we will hopefully get a new generation of real pioneers (in science, engineering, tech, arts, music etc).
Sounds like my experience in Everquest. It was hard and kept getting harder the higher you leveled. Critters were stronger than solo players for the most part and came in packs, so cooperation was required. Leveling took a long time, so by the top levels almost everyone was competent. And if someone wasn't for some reason it became Known. Had some good times with a solid team for a long while.
They eventually dumbed it down, killing the entire spirit of the game. There was no real challenge to overcome and thus no point.
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March 15, 2019, 09:48:26 AM

Currently reading On Sparta, and learning things I had never heard about before. Important shit like their council of elders that kept the balance in society, and one of the main reasons they didn't collapse from within like everyone else did.

I liked the economic theory that Spartans gave women far too high of status and preferential treatment which caused an enormous misallocation of capital after they inherited or married to gain all the wealth.  That's obviously not the sole reason they imploded, but women simply do not utilize money for any type of productive means.  It's probably a larger problem in our current day civilization.  

How many female business owners do you know that employ other people?  Occasionally they'll start something like a cake store or cat shelter, but those are not real economic engines.  So if women accumulate a large portion of your economy through things like divorce rape, probably get ready for some serious economic stagnation.  Yea, yea, I'm aware some random women open things like kooky house decoration stores, but those are just not really things that keep the world turning and most of them probably operate at a loss or near breakeven in the first place.
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March 15, 2019, 09:51:49 AM

What are your thoughts on the kind of person who would murder nearly a hundred people and injure hundreds more?

I am inclined to agree with BTCMillionaire that that individual has forfeited their right to life.  You?
This is pretty interesting. Most of my friends from the left argue strongly against this and consider human rights irrevocable. Which I can't find a perspective to understand it from, seeing how human rights are a human creation.

In defence of your leftist friends, we are all humans so being a human creation is not really something we can examine from the outside.  

I would certainly classify myself as leftist.  Champagne socialist if you would like a fitting derogatory term.  

 A death sentence is extreme violence by the State and arguably the most unLibertarian thing ever.  You cannot make an argument for death sentences on economic grounds as the inevitable appeals are more expensive than life sentences. On this basis it seems to me that the right should be against death sentences but never mind that.

All said, it seems an appropriate sanction for the most heinous of crimes, even if it does cost the tax payer more.
The whole government and practical implications are another story. I don't know if I would be for a legislated death sentence, mostly because I don't trust the powers to be not to abuse it. There would also be the whole issue of the grey areas. If the world agrees that a rapist should be executed, how would we deal with an alleged rapist that gets convicted but without hard proof of his acts (such as the dipshit who shared his video online)?

I always secretly hope that anyone who willfully does things to others that they wouldn't want done to themselves would get back what they did several times over. Perhaps even be reborn as battery farmed life-stock. Or someone who will endure physical torture, possibly without even knowing why depending on the gravity of their actions.

As for the tax argument, that's actually surprising, I didn't think it'd be that expensive. Although if we legislated death sentences for only extreme and clear cut cases (terrorists, murderers) I would legislate not to even allow an appeal and only allow execution of those cases where there is no doubt remaining. With the cessation of human rights the person has also lost the right to appeal in my book, so the only cost remaining would be the actual execution.


Edit: They don't need any defense. We argue all sorts of topics day in day out and nobody ever has any hard feelings. We're all a bunch of nerds who just enjoy arguments. Often even for positions we don't believe in just for the exercise, an exercise which I feel schools should have by default and practice regularly.
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March 15, 2019, 09:52:53 AM

What class did you play in Everquest Ibian and to what level?
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March 15, 2019, 09:55:05 AM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35uQCtr4EY
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March 15, 2019, 09:56:22 AM

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/sec-chairman-clayton-blasts-bitcoin-as-critics-assail-regulatory-stance

The agency is expected to decide on both proposals in the coming months. Clayton declined to comment on any specific application, but noted there “may be a case where a bitcoin ETF could satisfy our rules.”



But seriously Clayton, not now! Wait for the price to approach $20K and then give the approval. After that the $100K party will be a matter of weeks.
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March 15, 2019, 09:57:41 AM

Still what happens in NZ is something sick again and only been done by those with very twisted/sick minds
Whatever or for any what reason every act of terror is never to be talked good.....

However for very poor people and country the philippines are very kind people
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March 15, 2019, 09:57:41 AM

30s. Apparently "young" for this place. Which is a shame. The young need money more than the old right now but lack the knowledge to understand what makes bitcoin valuable.

The game was Final Fantasy XI. An MMO that was known for its unforgiving gameplay. You start in a world where you don't know what the fuck you're doing and everything is overwhelmingly hard to accomplish. The learning curve was basically a wall. But the rewards of completing your goals were thrilling and truly felt like an adventure.
It was basically a microcosm of reality, which is what I enjoyed so much about it (in retrospection).

I kept wanting to improve, so I ended up crunching numbers on all the gear, stats, crafts, auction house economics, and so on to improve my own abilities and profits.

Turns out that what I did was just what you would do in Mathematics (although on a very very very basic level, just numbers no abstract stuff), or by large extension with any general real world problems. Trying to optimize crafting (where synthesis could fail, random materials be lost, and high quality items be made with a random chance) turns out to be identical to balancing a portfolio of assets if you ignore the appearance. And thinking about ways to solo/duo/lowman content designed for multiple parties helped me learn how to think way out of the box as well, while still bringing it back to practicable solutions. Coincidentally, after I became really good at the game school went from repeating multiple years and almost being kicked out without a middle school diploma to being really easy, including university. I just learned how to learn solve problems from the game, as well as the perseverance required to do so.


However, the problem with that game was that it was just too hard and/or time consuming (depending on your content of choice). And the market doesn't like that. Games of today are the polar opposite as a result. And my vision is to create a common ground where the masses of casuals can jump right into it, but gradually move up to the experiences I've had in FFXI.

Basically reel the market in with flashy easy drip-feed, and then slowly transform the players into hardcore enthusiasts of challenges of all kind.

Once you feel the adrenaline pumping during something you deemed impossible, followed by the dopamine rush of clearing your impossible challenge, you will keep craving it. And that's where we will hopefully get a new generation of real pioneers (in science, engineering, tech, arts, music etc).
Sounds like my experience in Everquest. It was hard and kept getting harder the higher you leveled. Critters were stronger than solo players for the most part and came in packs, so cooperation was required. Leveling took a long time, so by the top levels almost everyone was competent. And if someone wasn't for some reason it became Known. Had some good times with a solid team for a long while.
They eventually dumbed it down, killing the entire spirit of the game. There was no real challenge to overcome and thus no point.
Sounds a lot like FFXI except that there were ways to do things with lower numbers. Depending on the content the number varied. But one time we brought down a wyrm in 40 minutes with 5 players that other guilds repeatedly failed after hours of trying with two alliances of 18 players each. It took us years to get to that point though, needing gear, strategy, experience and extreme levels of focus. One split-second mistake from any of us and it was all over.

And with 30s you're pretty much in the age range of my inner circle of friends. We're all mostly late twenties to mid thirties. Not sure why I thought you were older.
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March 15, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
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What are your thoughts on the kind of person who would murder nearly a hundred people and injure hundreds more?

I am inclined to agree with BTCMillionaire that that individual has forfeited their right to life.  You?
This is pretty interesting. Most of my friends from the left argue strongly against this and consider human rights irrevocable. Which I can't find a perspective to understand it from, seeing how human rights are a human creation.

In defence of your leftist friends, we are all humans so being a human creation is not really something we can examine from the outside.  

I would certainly classify myself as leftist.  Champagne socialist if you would like a fitting derogatory term.  

 A death sentence is extreme violence by the State and arguably the most unLibertarian thing ever.  You cannot make an argument for death sentences on economic grounds as the inevitable appeals are more expensive than life sentences. On this basis it seems to me that the right should be against death sentences but never mind that.

All said, it seems an appropriate sanction for the most heinous of crimes, even if it does cost the tax payer more.
The whole government and practical implications are another story. I don't know if I would be for a legislated death sentence, mostly because I don't trust the powers to be not to abuse it. There would also be the whole issue of the grey areas. If the world agrees that a rapist should be executed, how would we deal with an alleged rapist that gets convicted but without hard proof of his acts (such as the dipshit who shared his video online)?

I always secretly hope that anyone who willfully does things to others that they wouldn't want done to themselves would get back what they did several times over. Perhaps even be reborn as battery farmed life-stock. Or someone who will endure physical torture, possibly without even knowing why depending on the gravity of their actions.

As for the tax argument, that's actually surprising, I didn't think it'd be that expensive. Although if we legislated death sentences for only extreme and clear cut cases (terrorists, murderers) I would legislate not to even allow an appeal and only allow execution of those cases where there is no doubt remaining. With the cessation of human rights the person has also lost the right to appeal in my book, so the only cost remaining would be the actual execution.


Edit: They don't need any defense. We argue all sorts of topics day in day out and nobody ever has any hard feelings. We're all a bunch of nerds who just enjoy arguments. Often even for positions we don't believe in just for the exercise, an exercise which I feel schools should have by default and practice regularly.

Not sure I agree with disallowing an appeal (mistakes do get made) but let’s put that aside for the moment.

My largest complaint with conservative politicians is that they are not conservative enough.  They only take into account very short term costs and disregard long term costs. There is no planning for the future.

I find it equally frustrating that the left is incredibly poor at prosecuting these economic arguments, because they are so obvious. For example, environmentalism is really an economic argument about taking into account externalities in pricing goods.
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March 15, 2019, 10:02:51 AM

How do you like the TA, guys?  Grin Grin Grin
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March 15, 2019, 10:04:32 AM

Obvious trilemma
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March 15, 2019, 10:05:24 AM

What class did you play in Everquest Ibian and to what level?
Enchanter, max, Tallon Zek and possibly one of the top 3 players of that class on the server. BEST game times ever.
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March 15, 2019, 10:10:45 AM

What class did you play in Everquest Ibian and to what level?
Enchanter, max, Tallon Zek and possibly one of the top 3 players of that class on the server. BEST game times ever.

I played Sullon Zek.  Was in Legacy of Steel (aka <Ruin>).
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March 15, 2019, 10:11:30 AM

How do you like the TA, guys?  Grin Grin Grin


I choose the hardon #nohomo  Grin
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