ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.

[ruletheworld]

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

Chronobank also changed their fee distribution mechanism in this 4 March blog post, to a method that is less convenient than ICN's buy/burn.  You have to deposit TIME into a smart contract to receive your fees:
https://blog.chronobank.io/time-token-reward-model-1c3508208791

There was no such explosion of opinions and activity when they did this, so I believe this reaction to Iconomi's blog post is very bullish.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think it may be good for ICONOMI but the narrative shouldn't be that buybacks are the same as dividends, which investors (like most stock investors) know is not true. For crypto, especially if done correctly and competently, I think buybacks can add more value than dividends.

[1714243294]

1714243294

[ajhodge7]

alright, pump the brakes.  Let's not get too excited here.  It was just an announcement.  Let's see how the buyback is conducted and find out what happens to the price.  After all, the buyback may generate more value (versus a dividend) to the ICN holder.  The real excitement will start when ICNX opens up to the public.  Take your time ICONOMI.  ICNX will be a big time product.  If the release is done correctly there will be a flood of money - professional and eventually institutional investors.

Keep up the hard work ICONOMI. 

AJ

[stormia]

I wonder if somebody is not an absolut fan of Iconomi here, he's considered a FUDer... come on...

Shills or FUDers ... the only options )

You sold yesterday didn't you? Sorry for your loss (not actually sorry, actually quite happy when rude traders like you who try to use FUD and hype to manipulate the market get burned). If you think you can drive the price back down now with your comments, you are mistaken and also a huge gaping asshole

I am a trader. Sold last time when got near 50k, bought back at 26k, sold some now at 50k again ... what is the relevance?

      Gee I wonder why you are in here talking shit.

It would seem that the market does not agree with your sentiment about this development, you can't argue against the market and guess what quite frankly nobody gives a shit about your singular opinion. From your posts it is obvious you are just a simple trader with no real interest in the underlying growth and value of Iconomi, Iconomi is not and should not be catering to your wants and desires but the wants and desires of actual investors that are interested and invested in the long term viability of this project.

[ruletheworld]

alright, pump the brakes.  Let's not get too excited here.  It was just an announcement.  Let's see how the buyback is conducted and find out what happens to the price.  After all, the buyback may generate more value (versus a dividend) to the ICN holder.  The real excitement will start when ICNX opens up to the public.  Take your time ICONOMI.  ICNX will be a big time product.  If the release is done correctly there will be a flood of money - professional and eventually institutional investors.

Keep up the hard work ICONOMI. 

AJ

What's your rationale behind that?

[niksdt101]

glad to see the @dev's are delivering what they promised...long live iconomi...

[MoveCrypto]

alright, pump the brakes.  Let's not get too excited here.  It was just an announcement.  Let's see how the buyback is conducted and find out what happens to the price.  After all, the buyback may generate more value (versus a dividend) to the ICN holder.  The real excitement will start when ICNX opens up to the public.  Take your time ICONOMI.  ICNX will be a big time product.  If the release is done correctly there will be a flood of money - professional and eventually institutional investors.

Keep up the hard work ICONOMI.  

AJ

What's your rationale behind that?

It provides more liquidity to the ICN market.  If there are buy/burn walls in place on the orderbook, it makes it harder for pump/dump groups to do a big dump and panic others into dumping to their lower buy orders with a fud campaign.

Also 200+ ETH per year saved vs. sending out weekly dividends will be enough to hire 1 or 4 team members if ETH goes up to $500+ within the next few years.

[scrimper]

i´m hodling since the ico... i am curious about the next few weeks  
about the buyback i´m undecided, but i trust the iconomi team...they will be successful

[stormia]

alright, pump the brakes.  Let's not get too excited here.  It was just an announcement.  Let's see how the buyback is conducted and find out what happens to the price.  After all, the buyback may generate more value (versus a dividend) to the ICN holder.  The real excitement will start when ICNX opens up to the public.  Take your time ICONOMI.  ICNX will be a big time product.  If the release is done correctly there will be a flood of money - professional and eventually institutional investors.

Keep up the hard work ICONOMI.  

AJ

What's your rationale behind that?

It provides more liquidity to the ICN market.  If there are buy/burn walls in place on the orderbook, it makes it harder for pump/dump groups to do a big dump and panic others into dumping to their lower buy orders with a fud campaign.

Also 200+ ETH per year saved vs. sending out weekly dividends will be enough to hire 1 or 4 team members if ETH goes up to $500+ within the next few years.

Plus the legal and tax issues that have been circumvented may make ICN more appealing and accessible to a wider audience.

[andron8383]

****
Plus the legal and tax issues that have been circumvented may make ICN more appealing and accessible to a wider audience.

And we don't give BIG dividends for free to Exchange owners. This situation promotes HARD investors. If you want dividends then setup sheldue of dumping 1% of iconomi every week ...
like 1000 - 1 - 1 - 1 -1 it will be same results just make it like amount x0.01 every week.
I am very hapy with that now HOLDING/OWNING ICN is something really good.

Guys we have STRONG UP TREND  damm 1st correction and will real pumpers come to ICN just don't panic.

[MoveCrypto]

****
Plus the legal and tax issues that have been circumvented may make ICN more appealing and accessible to a wider audience.

And we don't give BIG dividends for free to Exchange owners. This situation promotes HARD investors. If you want dividends then setup sheldue of dumping 1% of iconomi every week ...
like 1000 - 1 - 1 - 1 -1 it will be same results just make it like amount x0.01 every week.
I am very hapy with that now HOLDING/OWNING ICN is something really good.

Guys we have STRONG UP TREND  damm 1st correction and will real pumpers come to ICN just don't panic.

True, I wouldn't be surprised if someone makes a calculator that tells you exactly how much ICN you have to sell and when to sell it in order to take your share of the fees as ETH if that's what you want.

Other cryptos that used a buy/burn in the past also had inflation to cancel it out.  I may have to do some more research, but I have a theory that ICN is:

The first ever deflationary crypto

If they do a $50k proof of concept buy/burn, this will be the largest buy/burn ever done in crypto

[stormia]

****
Plus the legal and tax issues that have been circumvented may make ICN more appealing and accessible to a wider audience.

And we don't give BIG dividends for free to Exchange owners. This situation promotes HARD investors. If you want dividends then setup sheldue of dumping 1% of iconomi every week ...
like 1000 - 1 - 1 - 1 -1 it will be same results just make it like amount x0.01 every week.
I am very hapy with that now HOLDING/OWNING ICN is something really good.

Guys we have STRONG UP TREND  damm 1st correction and will real pumpers come to ICN just don't panic.

True, I wouldn't be surprised if someone makes a calculator that tells you exactly how much ICN you have to sell and when to sell it in order to take your share of the fees as ETH if that's what you want.

Other cryptos that used a buy/burn in the past also had inflation to cancel it out.  I may have to do some more research, but I have a theory that ICN is:

The first ever deflationary crypto

If they do a $50k proof of concept buy/burn, this will be the largest buy/burn ever done in crypto

And that's just a proof of concept burn with a measly 1000 ETH, they will only get bigger and bigger in the future

[petricag]

You sold yesterday didn't you? Sorry for your loss (not actually sorry, actually quite happy when rude traders like you who try to use FUD and hype to manipulate the market get burned). If you think you can drive the price back down now with your comments, you are mistaken and also a huge gaping asshole

What loss ? You are delusional. I made 5x since ICO and still have enough to keep trading, don't worry about me.
So when I have a different opinion means I am using FUD to manipulate ... when the devs are basically lying and keep "changing" their minds ... all its ok ... right?
I don't have to comment to bring the price down ... the price comes down on its own ... its natural, especially when the devs are not here to consult with the community and keep doing all kind of funny moves. Remember the poor delusional kids that bought at 50k last time jumping around dreaming about the moon ? Then price got to 25k or lower ... ? Sure, delusional kids keep insisting the t it was because of the FUD, not because the devs are just not working in a transparent way. So chill ... I am too little to manipulate the price ... I am just irritated about the delusional believers.

I am a trader. Sold last time when got near 50k, bought back at 26k, sold some now at 50k again ... what is the relevance?

      Gee I wonder why you are in here talking shit.

It would seem that the market does not agree with your sentiment about this development, you can't argue against the market and guess what quite frankly nobody gives a shit about your singular opinion.

Read again stupid cunt ... there is a key word there "sold some" ...
If I were talking shit maybe you would be capable of arguing against ... with arguments.
I am not arguing with the market. Or maybe you feel you are the market ? As I mentioned above ... delusional.

[exemplaar]

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?

You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/

I am just running Geth alone as it seems to pick up blocks faster running alone. The only thing is my geth is stuck in my ethereum 8.2 wallet and not the newest. Like when it updated it just kept the same geth from months ago and never added Geth to the new version.

Better option is that you just switch to parity: https://github.com/paritytech/parity/releases

Also you will be able to sync very fast, even from scratch: https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/5fokbt/amazing_parity_completely_syncs_in_57_seconds/?st=iw4pzheg&sh=fb204cca

[andron8383]

***I am just irritated about the delusional believers. ***

What delusion you are talking about. If ICONOMI devs were  morons or irresponsible people all would collapse after ICO.
Fro me swithing from dividend to direct buyback is ok. you just can sell 1% off all every weekend or in time when they write whey will buyback. You can postpone payout and will be ok. Devs just more promote investors over ETH holders and exchange owners who will eat weekly like 20%-30% profits.
Which token would be more valuable buybacked ICN or dividends ICN , if you sell on regular basics?
This is mathematically proven that they will get at least 20%-30% better ICN price results with buybacks.
Here many "smart" people wanted dump ICN for ICNX/ICNP and now they have full DRAMA what to do.
That move was very clever and they did it before their 13m landed on market so they were VERY fair to true ICNVESTORs.

If ICONOMI devs are doing such SHIT so what you are doing here.
They screwed people who sold like 15k-25k arena but no one forced them to sell anything.
Now we will have drama that they make ICN 5x ICO price and they make moves that promotes INVESTORs ?

[btvGainer]

You sold yesterday didn't you? Sorry for your loss (not actually sorry, actually quite happy when rude traders like you who try to use FUD and hype to manipulate the market get burned). If you think you can drive the price back down now with your comments, you are mistaken and also a huge gaping asshole

What loss ? You are delusional. I made 5x since ICO and still have enough to keep trading, don't worry about me.
So when I have a different opinion means I am using FUD to manipulate ... when the devs are basically lying and keep "changing" their minds ... all its ok ... right?
I don't have to comment to bring the price down ... the price comes down on its own ... its natural, especially when the devs are not here to consult with the community and keep doing all kind of funny moves. Remember the poor delusional kids that bought at 50k last time jumping around dreaming about the moon ? Then price got to 25k or lower ... ? Sure, delusional kids keep insisting the t it was because of the FUD, not because the devs are just not working in a transparent way. So chill ... I am too little to manipulate the price ... I am just irritated about the delusional believers.

On the one hand you are spreading all negativity about ICN and on the other you say you still have enough to keep trading.If you are so disappointed with ICN,why don't you just sell all your holdings off and invest somewhere else leaving us to our destiny.
I mean if I were you and if I were convinced about something is going to fail,I wouldn't be wasting my time convincing people to sell.
Btw I bought 1000 ICN more I know not a big amount.I am sure after 1st of April even that will be fortune

[rgornik]

Hold your horses people. Dont create again FOMO too big so price can rise in a stable fashion

[stormia]

You sold yesterday didn't you? Sorry for your loss (not actually sorry, actually quite happy when rude traders like you who try to use FUD and hype to manipulate the market get burned). If you think you can drive the price back down now with your comments, you are mistaken and also a huge gaping asshole

What loss ? You are delusional. I made 5x since ICO and still have enough to keep trading, don't worry about me.
So when I have a different opinion means I am using FUD to manipulate ... when the devs are basically lying and keep "changing" their minds ... all its ok ... right?
I don't have to comment to bring the price down ... the price comes down on its own ... its natural, especially when the devs are not here to consult with the community and keep doing all kind of funny moves. Remember the poor delusional kids that bought at 50k last time jumping around dreaming about the moon ? Then price got to 25k or lower ... ? Sure, delusional kids keep insisting the t it was because of the FUD, not because the devs are just not working in a transparent way. So chill ... I am too little to manipulate the price ... I am just irritated about the delusional believers.

I am a trader. Sold last time when got near 50k, bought back at 26k, sold some now at 50k again ... what is the relevance?

      Gee I wonder why you are in here talking shit.

It would seem that the market does not agree with your sentiment about this development, you can't argue against the market and guess what quite frankly nobody gives a shit about your singular opinion.

Read again stupid cunt ... there is a key word there "sold some" ...
If I were talking shit maybe you would be capable of arguing against ... with arguments.
I am not arguing with the market. Or maybe you feel you are the market ? As I mentioned above ... delusional.

Sorry again for your loss    it'd probably be wise not to trade in such an emotional state in the future.

Lol I don't need to try to counter your "arguments" countless people have already done this to no avail, it's hard to argue logic against emotion. If you can't wrap your head around this change, why it was done, and why it is a good thing after multiple people have hand fed you the reasons that's nobody's problem but your own.

Everytime you sell you come in here with negativity, and then that negativity suddenly ends without any apparent reason (when you buy back in), if you think people can't see your motive behind that you are a delusional fool.

[Mendeleev]

I may have to do some more research, but I have a theory that ICN is:

The first ever deflationary crypto

Bitcrystals is an example that springs to mind. They're burned and the supply is ever-decreasing.

So not the first. There'll be others too, I'm sure.

[Sharma]

I have decided to hold my ICN as I have a feeling that something good is going to happen with ICN

[MysterE]

Burning token rather than dividends, I understand this circumvent the legality of
paying dividends.

Burning, hmmm.. how does this work and how do we know these tokens are out
of circulation.

Anyone like to give their two penny worth?