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Author Topic: ICONOMI - Live for today. Invest for tomorrow.  (Read 560063 times)
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soleiro
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March 29, 2017, 03:34:59 PM
 #2701

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.







The issue with dividends is that tax authorities tax dividend companies in a different way, when you mention dividends it only brings problems. Also this blocks many doors for example the US exchanges because of SEC shit.

Also for the holders is better not to be paid dividends because when you declare your taxes and you if you receive dividends you get a higher tax.

I think moving away from the dividends thing only brings good things to ICONOMI, first the US market, second less troubles with taxation for both the ICONOMI company and for the holders.

See you in Polo soon :-)

Everybody with a bit of knowledge of taxes was aware of that. I knew when I entered the ICO that Dividens are taxable. I have no problems to pay tax on my dividends as I would do with normal stocks.  Come on guys... it's logic that Dividends are seen as Income and therefore taxable. And Iconomi knew that for sure... for me this is getting a bit strange. issuing an ICO with promises, that they knew they cannot handle it... and if they didn't know it....the team sucks! Sorry to say...this is not fud...I'm just disappointed.

You must have already made some profit. Simply sell and move onto something else.

I know it is annoying for those that prefer dividends but it's done. It makes business and financial sense. There a lots that would disagree with your opinion but you can't please everyone. Just like with this bitcoin fork debate.... some people will be disappointing by the final choices going forward.

I believe the buy back was a necessary change to bring value to ICN an allow Iconomi to bring their product to market much faster.

Just because you want dividends doesn't mean the whole project should suffer from it. Think about all of the negatives that have come to light since first coming up with the idea of paying dividends.

I agree with you... it's probably the right way to handle a lot of problems they would have with Dividens system. It makes sense business and financial wise. But they knew it before. And this is what disappoints me. The promises made, that they knew it won't happen. However....will sell ...may regret later...but honestly I don't think the buyback will raise the price. I think I will be able soon to buy back much cheaper.
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March 29, 2017, 03:35:06 PM
 #2702

ShinyDiscoBalls posts in this thread are definitely the most enjoying thing there is out there
agree, like his debate style  Grin Grin Grin

ICONOMI — Fund Management Platform ❘|❘ DISCUSSION
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March 29, 2017, 03:37:26 PM
 #2703

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.







The issue with dividends is that tax authorities tax dividend companies in a different way, when you mention dividends it only brings problems. Also this blocks many doors for example the US exchanges because of SEC shit.

Also for the holders is better not to be paid dividends because when you declare your taxes and you if you receive dividends you get a higher tax.

I think moving away from the dividends thing only brings good things to ICONOMI, first the US market, second less troubles with taxation for both the ICONOMI company and for the holders.

See you in Polo soon :-)

Everybody with a bit of knowledge of taxes was aware of that. I knew when I entered the ICO that Dividens are taxable. I have no problems to pay tax on my dividends as I would do with normal stocks.  Come on guys... it's logic that Dividends are seen as Income and therefore taxable. And Iconomi knew that for sure... for me this is getting a bit strange. issuing an ICO with promises, that they knew they cannot handle it... and if they didn't know it....the team sucks! Sorry to say...this is not fud...I'm just disappointed.

You must have already made some profit. Simply sell and move onto something else.

I know it is annoying for those that prefer dividends but it's done. It makes business and financial sense. There a lots that would disagree with your opinion but you can't please everyone. Just like with this bitcoin fork debate.... some people will be disappointing by the final choices going forward.

I believe the buy back was a necessary change to bring value to ICN an allow Iconomi to bring their product to market much faster.

Just because you want dividends doesn't mean the whole project should suffer from it. Think about all of the negatives that have come to light since first coming up with the idea of paying dividends.

I agree with you... it's probably the right way to handle a lot of problems they would have with Dividens system. It makes sense business and financial wise. But they knew it before. And this is what disappoints me. The promises made, that they knew it won't happen. However....will sell ...may regret later...but honestly I don't think the buyback will raise the price. I think I will be able soon to buy back much cheaper.

Please do, the team will burn more, thanks for doing that!

ICONOMI — Fund Management Platform ❘|❘ DISCUSSION
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March 29, 2017, 03:44:31 PM
 #2704

Order placed.... so go and buy it... see ya on the moon ... Cool
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March 29, 2017, 03:48:18 PM
 #2705

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.


Nothing like that was "promised" during the ICO. They presented a roadmap and fundamentals.
Fundamentals haven't changed.

You are not owner of the platform, you don't get to decide how the service operator decides to implement its plans. You only have shares in the revenue.
What was changed was the way they distribute profits, and for that no one promised a vote.

You are talking about dividends in the form of eth, like you would receive 10 eth every week. If you want to go long on eth, you can buy from the market.
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March 29, 2017, 03:58:48 PM
Last edit: March 29, 2017, 04:16:05 PM by soleiro
 #2706

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.


Nothing like that was "promised" during the ICO. They presented a roadmap and fundamentals.
Fundamentals haven't changed.

You are not owner of the platform, you don't get to decide how the service operator decides to implement its plans. You only have shares in the revenue.
What was changed was the way they distribute profits, and for that no one promised a vote.

You are talking about dividends in the form of eth, like you would receive 10 eth every week. If you want to go long on eth, you can buy from the market.

Come on... as the main Moderator you should be aware of what they promised. (by the way your FAQ link in your footer doesn't work anymore)
and in the AMA Tim responded to me that there will be dividends... so don't tell me that was not promised. Such answers make me even more skeptic.

From the whitepaper:
"Being a crowdfunded project, a majority of 85 % will be owned by the crowdfunding participants in the form of ICONOMI tokens (“ICN”), while"
"ICN tokens represent ownership of the ICONOMI platform, allowing their holders to receive dividends and vote on ICONOMI related issues."

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March 29, 2017, 04:20:24 PM
 #2707

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

is clear that you don't understand what is going on, so do me favour and read this article and stop the fud.

https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

I can read...and I can do math.... but you seem to be naiv. Why Fud?? I loved the project.... my ICN's were on Iconomi site since ICO.... but today transferred to Exchange. Now only day trading. No more holding.

With Dividends, I would have to do nothing.... just getting ETH every week. Now I will have to see if price went up, have to sell some, do calculations to maintain % of Iconomi etc. Good for Iconomi, bad for Investors that wanted mainly ETH as dividends. As more as I think about, more I think I gonna sell all my tokens. Take this nice profit from ICO and buy back into ICNX or ICNP.


by all means, do it, sell it all, let me be a fool for buying them Wink

I can see...one more child with 1 ICN...hahhaha.....Ok, will do, gives me over 400% Profit from ICO... more than good to me.... will be happy to buy them back later for 0.000250 again... and then sell them to you again for 0.0006

Wow, so you confess that your entire motive is to sell ICN at 60k+ satoshi then FUD campaign about "muh dividends!" to try to buy back cheaper and increase your stake in ICN.

It's a plan that might work to scam some small newbies into dumping, but it's not going to work on an experienced person and it's even less effective if you admit exactly what you're trying to do.

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March 29, 2017, 04:27:19 PM
 #2708

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore? 

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.


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soleiro
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March 29, 2017, 04:30:10 PM
 #2709

The first buyback is only around 85K ICN's...spread over 90 days.... so they go to buy back around 1000 ICN a day.... that's nothing...That will not effect the market price... For me the decision to go the buyback way is 100% against what I expected and what was promised with ICO. We are owner of the platform, and Iconomi decides to change the basics. That's not fair in my opinion.  I want ETH as Dividends... my % of Iconomi would be the same...but I would earn ETH, which in few years is 1000 times more worth than ICN.

is clear that you don't understand what is going on, so do me favour and read this article and stop the fud.

https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

I can read...and I can do math.... but you seem to be naiv. Why Fud?? I loved the project.... my ICN's were on Iconomi site since ICO.... but today transferred to Exchange. Now only day trading. No more holding.

With Dividends, I would have to do nothing.... just getting ETH every week. Now I will have to see if price went up, have to sell some, do calculations to maintain % of Iconomi etc. Good for Iconomi, bad for Investors that wanted mainly ETH as dividends. As more as I think about, more I think I gonna sell all my tokens. Take this nice profit from ICO and buy back into ICNX or ICNP.


by all means, do it, sell it all, let me be a fool for buying them Wink

I can see...one more child with 1 ICN...hahhaha.....Ok, will do, gives me over 400% Profit from ICO... more than good to me.... will be happy to buy them back later for 0.000250 again... and then sell them to you again for 0.0006

Wow, so you confess that your entire motive is to sell ICN at 60k+ satoshi then FUD campaign about "muh dividends!" to try to buy back cheaper for profit.

Absolutely not..? My goal was to have as much ICN as possible to get passive income in ETH. I had until today untouched ICN on Iconomi and planned to hold long time. Besided I daytraded on Kraken to get more ICN. This is now not possible anymore to get passive income from Iconomi... I will have to actively check and sell, calculate my % of Iconomi etc...this was not what I bought ICN for.

I wonder if somebody is not an absolut fan of Iconomi here, he's considered a FUDer... come on...
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March 29, 2017, 04:31:53 PM
Last edit: March 29, 2017, 04:43:23 PM by MoveCrypto
 #2710

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

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March 29, 2017, 04:44:36 PM
 #2711

ICN is still one of the most promising projects in the cryptosphere at the moment IMHO.

http://TheScarabExperiment.org

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March 29, 2017, 04:50:09 PM
 #2712

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.
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March 29, 2017, 04:52:40 PM
 #2713

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

Chronobank also changed their fee distribution mechanism in this 4 March blog post, to a method that is less convenient than ICN's buy/burn.  You have to deposit TIME into a smart contract to receive your fees:
https://blog.chronobank.io/time-token-reward-model-1c3508208791

There was no such explosion of opinions and activity when they did this, so I believe this reaction to Iconomi's blog post is very bullish.

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March 29, 2017, 05:09:25 PM
 #2714


I wonder if somebody is not an absolut fan of Iconomi here, he's considered a FUDer... come on...

Shills or FUDers ... the only options Smiley)
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March 29, 2017, 05:23:53 PM
 #2715

Two other cryptos which used buy/burn were Nushares and Bitshares.  However, both of these had inflation that would cancel out the buy/burn.  I may have to do further research, but I have a theory that ICN is:
1) the first ever deflationary crypto
2) the largest $ amount ever to be bought/burned in crypto if their upcoming $50k proof of concept

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March 29, 2017, 05:24:55 PM
 #2716

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?
You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?
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March 29, 2017, 05:31:14 PM
 #2717

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?
You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/


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March 29, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
 #2718

Ok so I invested in the crowd-sale months ago and requested my tokens to my ether wallet on my desktop and I checked etherscan and it says my tokens did send to the correct address the only problem I am having is how the hell do I watch this token on my wallet? I put in the contract address and then it wants some jSon code? I just want my tokens. What can I do?
You need private keys.json file etc to login to your myetherwallet account.I hope you have saved any of that when you signed up for myetherwallet account.
If not,I am afraid to say,there is no way to access your account now.

I am not using a myetherwallet account. I am talking about the original downloadable Ether wallet and want to get my tokens. Maybe I just have to wait for the wallet to sync more? What more do I need besides the contract address to see my tokens in this wallet?

I believe you are using Mist or Parity. Now if you are doing so, you will have to wait till the entire ethereum blockchain has been downloaded or till you wallet is completed synced with the network. Till then, I don't think you will be able to see your tokens. I haven't used one as it takes days to get the ethereum blockchain downloaded with internet connection that I have and I use https://www.myetherwallet.com/

If you really want to run your ethereum wallet as a full node on your local machine, you could also download a blockchain snapshot so you don't have to wait for it to sync.

http://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/10465/is-it-possible-to-make-the-parity-software-sync-faster

With parity, this is done by starting from scratch (clear previous blockchain data, but not your wallet file obviously, always save that) with this command:
parity --warp

Can access the parity GUI from any web browser:
http://localhost:8080/

MoveCrypto for Komodo Notary
https://komodoplatform.com/
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March 29, 2017, 05:34:43 PM
 #2719

Call me an ignorant but I don't understand how the buyback system is better, ICN just like every other crypto currency get its price from the demand and It should get demand so people could use it for a purpose right? In the first case, to receive dividends, now and we switched to buyback, why would people buy ICN If it has no purpose anymore?  

I'm an investor and I'm not trying to spread FUD honestly, I just want to get some things cleared to me so I decided If I should invest more or not. I see that the price already started increasing so I might be missing something.

ICN still represents a share of all the fees from Iconomi platform.  They didn't change the fundamentals, only the fee distribution mechanism.

dividend or buy/burn are two different methods of distributing fees

For example, say the market cap is $100m and you own 1/1000 of ICN supply or $100k worth

Iconomi wants to distribute 1000 ETH profits to ICN holders:

A) they send ETH to every address, and now you have 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH

B) they buy/burn 1000 ETH worth of ICN, shrinking the supply so that you now have 1/999.5 of the ICN supply worth ($100k + 1 ETH)

In case B) you could sell exactly 1 ETH worth of ICN and you would end up with 1/1000 of the ICN supply ($100k) + 1 ETH, just like in case A)

It's not the end of the world if you have to hold less than 0.5% of your ICN on exchange then slowly sell it in order to receive your ETH dividends.


This article does a good job of further explaining the fundamentals of ICN:
https://medium.com/@theDAOKING/the-iconomi-burn-crypto-buybacks-f9edb30530fe

This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

The problem with this line of thinking is, you are taking on the exchange rate risk, in addition to the economic risk of the underlying (stock, token, whatever). If you were an investor, do you think you would have preferred dividends from KO during 2008-2009 or would you rather have sold your KO stock, at its lowest point in a generation, to cover the same pseudo-dividend?

Your analysis doesn't take into account price speculation. This is very well known to people who invest in traditional stocks (dividend paying vs. non-dividend paying). I am not saying this is a bad move by the ICONOMI team, but it is incorrect to characterize it as being economically identical to the end investors.

Quote
This line of thinking is especially dangerous in non-efficient markets. What you've proved above holds true only if the price of the token represents strictly the underlying economics, which it doesn't, especially in crypto.

It does. ICNP current net value is 10M usd
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March 29, 2017, 05:43:14 PM
 #2720



wtf! 60k sat? this very sad for dumper Cheesy
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