MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[flound1129]

>$1 mil in transfers per week and yet not one person who can show evidence of one....

[1714211903]

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[ardana123]

my guess is only a small part of the bitcoin community reads these forums, and in particular this thread

[bitcoinbboyce]

my guess is only a small part of the bitcoin community reads these forums, and in particular this thread

ahhh I get it, its only the small part of users on here who are not getting $$$, everyone else must be ok...

[ardana123]

my guess is only a small part of the bitcoin community reads these forums, and in particular this thread

ahhh I get it, its only the small part of users on here who are not getting $$$, everyone else must be ok...

well i'm not saying that, i'm just saying everyone doesn't do the effort of browsing these forums
some people are just content with what mtgox support is saying to them (that they have a backlog) and reading the frontpage news
plus there are those who just lurk without posting

[sturle]

>$1 mil in transfers per week and yet not one person who can show evidence of one....

Except for several people reporting in this and other threads.  Plenty people are getting their wires, and don't make fuss about it, while other people make a lot of noise about their delayed $100 wires in various troll froums like this.

[OhShei8e]

>$1 mil in transfers per week and yet not one person who can show evidence of one....

Except for several people reporting in this and other threads.  Plenty people are getting their wires, and don't make fuss about it, while other people make a lot of noise about their delayed $100 wires in various troll froums like this.

A harsh judgment. S3052 and others are no trolls:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248417.msg2761454#msg2761454

People get nervous. Fear and concern is spreading like a flu.

If Gox really can only transfer 1 million per week, then it will take months before most people will have their money back. In the recent months 30 million a month flowed to Gox. So Gox needs about 6 weeks to unwind one of these month. We talk about the months of February, March and April. The trading volume is now back to the level of January but the whole money is still on Gox. It will take until September before everyone has his money. As a result people get unsettled.

[BobLemoine]

An Euro SEPA withdrawal newly arrived !!!
This is my datas updated :
2013/05/04  745e -> received on 2013/05/07 (3 days)
2013/05/05 1000e -> received on 2013/06/03 (29 days)
2013/05/06 1000e -> received on 2013/07/23 (78 days)
2013/05/07 1200e -> Waiting ...
2013/05/15 2000e -> Waiting ...

(my emphasis)

I am not defending MtGox but how can multiple withdrawals like this achieve anything but clog up their admin system, and cost you more?
Why not combine withdrawals, even if you are on-forwarding amounts to others then do that via internet banking afterwards.

It's because after waiting long time to validate your bank acount, they write you that you are allowed for withdrawal > 1000€ BUT before you have to ask for it and wait a week more !!!
It's why before the 2013/05/07 it's was not possible to ask more than 1000€
in reality without their slow procedure these withdrawal can be started from april.
I agree with your argument, but in my point of view i doesn't understand why their software doesn't automatically agregate these withdrawal ?

[smoothie]

[13:54] * Joins: racerx (~racerx@unaffiliated/racerx)
[13:55] <racerx> Withdrawals: wtf if going on...
[13:56] <racerx> can anyone confirm that any actual real proper fiat has left MtGox recently?
[13:59] <racerx> I see
[14:00] * Joins: ystarnaud (ystarnaud@209.18.59.195)
[14:05] <@MagicalTux> racerx: currently we send ~1.2M USD per week
[14:06] <@MagicalTux> (not mentionning EUR)
[14:07] <Diabolicus_Work> so how far have you worked through that queue yet?
[14:10] <ystarnaud> I'm sure you get this question alot and I don't want to piss anyone off by asking but, what is the USD backlog like right now? I withdrew on 7/12 can I get an approximate timeframe on when I can expect the money in my bank account?
[14:11] <nejon> I'd like to know that too
[14:12] <racerx> MagicalTux: I'm sure you get this all the time but I am really struggling to make sense of the "two weeks" that keeps getting quoted to me. I've paid 2 lots of commision now USD->BTC->AUD trying to get MY money out (2 week "confirmed" status, USD hiatus, now 20 day wait for AUD) and I've been told to wait another "2 weeks" to see where things are..
[14:13] * Joins: Ken` (d1c379ab@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.195.121.171)
[14:14] <saulimus> yep, tell us all the gory details. it's not like we're going anywhere with our money...
[14:14] <racerx> It was detailed in the announcment that the USD withdrawal hiatus was for USD only, why am I getting told that AUD withdrawals are delayed beause of that too now?
[14:15] <saulimus> make a page with the current backlog and some indicator we can look at so we see some progress every day
[14:16] <racerx> the current state of play (dwolla, USD hiatus) and now backlog makes it really hard to swallow the whole ~1.2M USD p/w ... no offence
[14:18] <racerx> but seriously I just want to know if I will never see MY hard earned cash ever again so I can move on and deal
[14:18] * Joins: PaulB0 (~PaulB0@gateway.genevasi.com)
[14:26] <racerx> hrm
[14:29] <racerx> the situation is certainly ominous
[14:35] * Joins: saulimus (~someone@37-219-183-167.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi)
[14:40] <racerx> MagicalTux: can you comment?
[14:45] <@MagicalTux> right now we're giving priority to larger transfers
[14:45] <racerx> please define "larger"
[14:46] <@MagicalTux> 5 digits or more
[14:48] <racerx> due to the $10K limit MtGox have imposed I have had to make multiple transactions, I assume these are not added together and deemed as "larger"
[14:48] <@MagicalTux> they are, actually
[14:49] * Joins: CodeShark (~CodeShark@cpe-72-130-129-115.san.res.rr.com)
[14:49] <nutcase> and only wire transfers are working for US people right MagicalTux?
[14:50] <Sealy> MagicalTux: i'm approaching >$1mill trading volume per month, is there any provision for a discounted rate for consistently high volume traders?
[14:50] <racerx> and are all International Wires in all currencies being actioned/treated equal?
[14:51] <@MagicalTux> [22:49:57] <nutcase> and only wire transfers are working for US people right MagicalTux? <- at this point, yes. We are working on US domestic solutions however
[14:52] <nutcase> okay cool thanks MagicalTux
[14:52] <racerx> so wires to the rest of the world are just on hold until further notice?
[14:53] <nutcase> the wires to the rest of the world never got stopped afaik
[14:54] <@MagicalTux> it's not on hold, just processing slowly
[14:54] <racerx> nutcase: that was the communication in the press release, but gox support are using the USD hiatus as the reason why my wires are pending with no ETA
[14:54] <@MagicalTux> we're working with our banking partners to increase the throughput of outgoing wires
[15:00] <racerx> MagicalTux: I apprecaite your input but I hope you can understand the concerns we/I have. So many reports of outgoing wires (bitcointalk.org) not being transfered in any logical order and everyone is being strung along by support
[15:01] <EPiSKiNG-> MagicalTux = BEST!
[15:01] <EPiSKiNG-> MtGox = BEST!
[15:02] <EPiSKiNG-> they're just going through some rough times right now with the banks
[15:02] <Delerium> I concur
[15:03] <Delerium> ....tho im not sure about the magicaltux = best part
[15:03] * Delerium hides
[15:03] <racerx> To hear now too that larger transfers and non US transfers are working and/or being given priority, yet I cant get a cent of my 5 figure balance. There must be a better way to communicate this to people
[15:25] * Joins: arvicco (~arvicco@ip70-181-121-180.oc.oc.cox.net)
[15:29] <racerx> so what do I have to say and to whom to get a realistic idea of when my money wires will be looked at?
[15:30] <racerx> and when you say slowly above that could mean a whole pile of things, at present it seems to mean nothing measureable across the communinty... or is the community perception wrong?
[15:31] <racerx> "processing slowly" for context

I call bullshit on the 5 digit amounts.

I had a total of 5 digit amount that did not clear when initiated mid June. Earliest was June 13th. I had to cancel to get off of gox via BTC.

This was only less than a week ago.

Actions speak louder than anything they say. Inactions also say a lot as well.

[OhShei8e]

I had a total of 5 digit amount that did not clear when initiated mid June. Earliest was June 13th. I had to cancel to get off of gox via BTC.

This was only less than a week ago.

Actions speak louder than anything they say. Inactions also say a lot as well.

And your actions are a result of your impatience. But why still crying? You've made your decision and have got your money or not?

[EuroTrash]

I had a total of 5 digit amount that did not clear when initiated mid June. Earliest was June 13th. I had to cancel to get off of gox via BTC.

This was only less than a week ago.

Actions speak louder than anything they say. Inactions also say a lot as well.

And your actions are a result of your impatience. But why still crying? You've made your decision and have got your money or not?

Smoothie's post is in topic.
Your reply is a personal remark with no value added.

[smoothie]

I had a total of 5 digit amount that did not clear when initiated mid June. Earliest was June 13th. I had to cancel to get off of gox via BTC.

This was only less than a week ago.

Actions speak louder than anything they say. Inactions also say a lot as well.

And your actions are a result of your impatience. But why still crying? You've made your decision and have got your money or not?

Where exactly am I crying?

Pointing out bullshit is not crying lol.

I'm not complaining that I had to pay fees to get my funds off of gox. Merely calling out mark's statement as false given my situation was as he stated yet I did not get a wire for over a month.

[Pangia]

MTGOX in my opinion is insolvent.  The purchase of Bitcoins within the exchange is being performed on the basis of a belief that the funds listed on your account page actually exists.

The purchase of BTC's on MTGOX right now is being performed based on funds that are simply listed on your account. It's almost like a demo account with fake money, but the BTC's are real. If you can't get your funds out, how do you know that it actually exists?

Say MTGOX only has 2 customers (A and B). Customer A has 100 BTC's and B has enough USD in their MTGOX account to purchase all of those BTC's. Customer B with USD in GOX can't withdraw, so B buys all of Customer A 's BTC and transfers them to another exchange where B can sell those BTC's and make a withdrawal without an issue.

Customer A now has USD in their GOX account, however it's USD that they can't withdraw and there are no other customers to purchase BTC's from, so A is stuck with his/her USD in GOX and no way to get it out --- No one to buy BTC's from and no way to get the USD out because MTGOX isn't processing the withdrawal.  Now the million dollar question is this: DO THE FUNDS NOW IN CUSTOMER A's ACCOUNT ACTUALLY EXIST? It say's that they have it on their MTGOX account, but does it really exist?

It's not like MTGOX has an independent 3rd party that can audit them to say that they indeed have everyone's funds and are solvent. All we are left with is an account page that says that you have $xxxxxx.00 

You can purchase BTC's with those funds listed there, because for the moment, everyone believes that those funds are real. But can you all withdraw your funds right now?

What's working in the MTGOX's favor right now is the fact that they obviously don't have just 2 customers. Additionally, customers are depositing funds.  What's saving them from a collapse is that the simplified scenario above is being prevented by the thousands of MTGOX customers who aren't heading for the door at once. BUT, if something were to trigger a panic, we'd see the price of BTC's on MTGOX shoot up and those willing to take a lose by purchasing BTC's at panic prices will be able to get their funds out through the transfer of BTC's and those left holding USD will be out of luck. Those left holding USD will have their USD delineated on their MTGOX page, but are those funds really there? Since there wouldn't be anyone to "buy" BTC's from (because they left with the BTC's that you sold them), you could put in a request to withdraw those funds, but when that request doesn't get fulfilled (like the stories that we keep reading on this forum), is your money really in your account?

You can "buy" BTC's with the funds listed on your MTGOX account because everyone believes that those funds really exist and accept them (electronically), even if they can't withdraw those funds.  You can then transfer those BTC's out and it has nothing to do with the liquidity of MTGOX. The acquisition of BTC's and the transfer of BTC's is solely based on the belief that the funds listed on your MTGOX account are real.

If you can prove that those funds in your account actually exist, then the belief that MTGOX is insolvent is unfounded.

[mp420]

I do not believe for one second that MtGox is actually insolvent.

Incompetent, yes. But they have a shitload of money. They have like two dozen employees and their operating revenue is at least half a million $ per month. And they have more fiat coming in all the time.

I find it entirely plausible that they've just had a hard collision with the reality of doing any kind of business in Japan, and especially with the antiquated Japanese banking system. I think they're still processing every single outgoing wire by hand, in person, in paper, and having a bank employee input every single wire by hand to the bank's system.

Eventually they will get into financial trouble, if this continues and they don't find a better banking solution.

[Impaler]

The consistent spread between Gox USD and bitstamp USD (as in how many of these dollars buys a BTC on either exchange) supports the theory that their is a perceived lower value of USD on Gox, the spread seems to be large then would would be accounted for by the delay inconvenience alone, but it is not high enough to say their is a widespread belief in insolvency, only a weak suspision.

Now what would happen if their really was a 'run' and Gox (which has been exposed as a quasi-bank).  Certainly a spike in its exchange rate would occur as Gox USD (or GXD as I will call it) is actually falling relative to BTC.  What would be interesting is seeing how things move on other exchanges.  Will the market view Gox insolvency (or the perception of it) as such a bearish signal that other non Gox exchanges see a drop in rates?  Might we develop a double exchange rate, USD<->BTC<->GXD?  Maybe the two will cancel out and the rate actually remain flat on Gox and its just the other exchanges which drop, so in effect what we want to keep on eye on is the spread between GXD and USD, its currently near 7.5% if that increases then it would be a sign of greater insolvency fear.

[CoinEntropy]

[14:45] <@MagicalTux> right now we're giving priority to larger transfers
[14:45] <racerx> please define "larger"
[14:46] <@MagicalTux> 5 digits or more

Laughable graphic, quite suitable.

[smoothie]

I do not believe for one second that MtGox is actually insolvent.

Incompetent, yes. But they have a shitload of money. They have like two dozen employees and their operating revenue is at least half a million $ per month. And they have more fiat coming in all the time.

I find it entirely plausible that they've just had a hard collision with the reality of doing any kind of business in Japan, and especially with the antiquated Japanese banking system. I think they're still processing every single outgoing wire by hand, in person, in paper, and having a bank employee input every single wire by hand to the bank's system.

Eventually they will get into financial trouble, if this continues and they don't find a better banking solution.

The misconception of having your business or your name on a bank account that has $1 trillion dollars is worthless if it is frozen by the authorities.

Insolvent I would say is "not able to access all of their funds due to not being in compliance".

[racerx]

Rattus: thx for pasting the transcript... saved me doing it.

Eurotrash: I don't get the pic even though I'm quoted above it! Can you please explain it for me


I also wanted to add that I discovered there was another line to my support chat transcript before Nancy disconnected  that I didn't se but was included in the ticket update later. Seems the session dropped...

Nancy 12:51:
Sorry for that. Right now we would not be able to provide ETA

Nancy 12:51:
Are you there?

Nancy has left the room

[Rygon]

I've been waiting on a USD transfer for slightly under 5 digits since July 5 now. Like everyone else, the only response I've received is the canned answer about it being in the queue.

I don't know why they would ever announce that things were back to normal two weeks ago. Even now, it says on the withdrawal page that wire transfers only take a week. Clearly that is not the case.

And what is up with 5 figure transfers getting priority? If that is true (which this thread seems to put it into doubt), doesn't that just give an unfair advantage to a select group now because they can arbitrage with other exchanges? And therefore increase the pressure of exchanging money on MtGox? And constantly locking out smaller players?

It's astounding that no other exchange is stepping up to the plate who has the regulatory documentation and with the ability to handle large volumes. FINCEN and the SEC have more or less legitimatized Bitcoin as a currency, so it's not like setting up a Bitcoin exhange is nearly as risky as it was even a year ago.

[EuroTrash]

Eurotrash: I don't get the pic even though I'm quoted above it! Can you please explain it for me

Picture taken from an airline website. There are two lanes. The fast one is for people with priority check in.

NB does not mean I believe that "5 digit+ are being given priority over the rest" talk.

[Coinseeker]

It's astounding that no other exchange is stepping up to the plate who has the regulatory documentation and with the ability to handle large volumes. FINCEN and the SEC have more or less legitimatized Bitcoin as a currency, so it's not like setting up a Bitcoin exhange is nearly as risky as it was even a year ago.

No, but it still costs millions of dollars like it did a year ago.