MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[HowlingMad]

I am trying to get an ABA transfer out of Gox, which is supposed to be 2-5 business days.  I have had one there for a week now and am getting the 'canned' response.  "We are backed up excessively and are working the problem as fast as we can...I also asked for a guess-tamite as to the number of business days... No answer.  I am guessing this is going to be the "up to 3 weeks delay for a SEPA withdrawal" and that is when I will see it.

$1000 USD on August 8th, 2013.  I will post when I see it.  

[1714203273]

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[rampantparanoia]

I have cancelled all withdrawals  as none of them went through for 3 months.
Back into BTC, then all BTC withdrawn yesterday out of MtGox and now I am done with them.
For me mtgox is dead as of today.

If this is the case, why are you still promoting them on your site? https://digitalcurrencyresearch.com/sign_up/bitcoin-bull-bear/?currency=BTC

[S3052]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

[smoothie]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

Same here.

[sturle]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

At least my fiat seems to be safe at MtGox.   10% instant profit on deposits via BTC, and it may be a smart place to hold fiat when fiat withdrawals are back to normal.  I see cheap BTC on the horizon.  Simple to change currency as well, when the USD goes down the drain.  Even at a profit, depending on the price differences between different currencies at MtGox.  My bot has been juggling between BTC and different fiat currencies very successfully for a while.  Not an ideal place to keep fiat right now for those who can't afford it, of course.

[joesmoe2012]

Just an update, it appears the my JPY transfer didn't go through because of an error in the Japanese spelling of my name. I was never notified of this, but after repeat inquries to support finally it's been cleared up.

Still showing as confirmed though, will update here when/if it hits japanese account.

[smoothie]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

Same here.

Same here. In fact I never had any USD or BTC in mtgox even momentarily and have no any intention to use them in the future. "Do not touch with a barge-pole" is my tag for them. YMMV.

Yup. I refuse to use them anymore also. We need some real professionals who know how to run a world-class exchange to come into the bitcoin market and capture a good share of volume.

THAT, would be healthy for bitcoin.

[smoothie]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

At least my fiat seems to be safe at MtGox.   10% instant profit on deposits via BTC, and it may be a smart place to hold fiat when fiat withdrawals are back to normal.  I see cheap BTC on the horizon.  Simple to change currency as well, when the USD goes down the drain.  Even at a profit, depending on the price differences between different currencies at MtGox.  My bot has been juggling between BTC and different fiat currencies very successfully for a while.  Not an ideal place to keep fiat right now for those who can't afford it, of course.

Just be sure not to confuse the "XXXX.XX USD" in your account balance as actual cash. It is just a number.

If MTGOX is insolvent then you are essentially playing with monopoly money as the rush to the exits will determine who gets bitcoin and withdraws it to claim they actually "HAVE" something of value.

[OhShei8e]

Just be sure not to confuse the "XXXX.XX USD" in your account balance as actual cash. It is just a number.

If MTGOX is insolvent then you are essentially playing with monopoly money as the rush to the exits will determine who gets bitcoin and withdraws it to claim they actually "HAVE" something of value.

Yes, but can we please (with sugar on the top) continue playing with our 14 million "Gox-USD-Monopoly" without the permanent litanies about it?

If you are using tradebots, then the price is ultimately irrelevant. You trade to increase your Bitcoins. As bot trader you are satisfied with modest but realistic and constant gains. I always pay attention to a balanced relationship between Bitcoin and FIAT.

This GOX condition may persist for months and it does not need, that you and others spread your bullshit here and entice people to wrong decision.

You and others have proclaimed weeks ago when we where at 75$ to buy on Gox and sell immediately on Bitstamp. People who have followed this stupid advice have lost much more than 10%!

I see a lot of desire for the escalation here. You and others are downright horny for disaster. This is so sick.

[ardana123]

that's how the smart get rich off the backs of the stupid.

[sturle]

this is not a promotion. it is just stating the facts that people can use various exchange. And to date, MtGox is still the largest.
It still holds true that my account at MtGox is 0 BTC, 0 fiat.

At least my fiat seems to be safe at MtGox.   10% instant profit on deposits via BTC, and it may be a smart place to hold fiat when fiat withdrawals are back to normal.  I see cheap BTC on the horizon.  Simple to change currency as well, when the USD goes down the drain.  Even at a profit, depending on the price differences between different currencies at MtGox.  My bot has been juggling between BTC and different fiat currencies very successfully for a while.  Not an ideal place to keep fiat right now for those who can't afford it, of course.

Just be sure not to confuse the "XXXX.XX USD" in your account balance as actual cash. It is just a number.

If MTGOX is insolvent then you are essentially playing with monopoly money as the rush to the exits will determine who gets bitcoin and withdraws it to claim they actually "HAVE" something of value.

This is true for all exchanges.  If I believed any of them were insolvent, I wouldn't keep money there.

The BTC MtGox made in fees for the first year of operation after introducing fees alone is worth millions of USD now.  And there are 14 million USD (fiat) in the order book alone.  This is USD which hasn't been withdrawn yet.  I don't believe it is possible for MtGox to waste 14 million USD in this short time.  And so far withdrawals in JPY to banks in Japan flows normally.  This is consistent with the explanation of wire transfer problems and no solvency problems.

[sturle]

You and others have proclaimed weeks ago when we where at 75$ to buy on Gox and sell immediately on Bitstamp. People who have followed this stupid advice have lost much more than 10%!

I see a lot of desire for the escalation here. You and others are downright horny for disaster. This is so sick.

+1.  Several of the people trying to escalate the situation by spreading rumours here, are busy taking arbitrage as well.  (I know a few, but won't mention names.)  Spending some time here to talk people into giving them 10% of their money by selling for cheap on other exchanges is very profitable.

[sturle]

fees [...] worth millions of USD now

Not necessarily. It is known that they were constantly converting BTC fees into USD. If I remember correctly the trades where gox converted BTC fees into fiat were actually tracked for some time on this forum.

Examples?  MtGox and their employees are not allowed to trade on their own exchange.  I suggested that MtGox introduced an option to take all fees in fiat, which they did and made default for new accounts.  They have made much less BTC from fees since then.  AFAIK MtGox never exchanged their BTC into USD due to regulatory issues.  (MtGox would have to do that on another exchange, if they are permitted to trade BTC at all.)

It would not be wise to assume that gox has kept all the BTC fees and enjoyed thousands percent ROI on those. We do not know that.

No, a lot of thee fees have been spent on buying companies.  17k BTC on some exchange in Poland which managed to delete their wallet (17k was enough to reimburse their customers), some on a market watch site, 25k on Bitcoin Foundation membership, etc.  AFAIK this is their policy.  Spend the BTC as BTC.

[ab8989]

Also, 10 SWIFT transfers a day is BS, I've sent more than that in a day (I don't routinely do it, but nobody at my bank cares if i want to make 10 SWIFT transfers...).

sending 10 SWIFT transfers on one day is not the same as sending 10 every day.

Gox has let us understand they have run into problems related to overloading the computer systems at the second biggest bank in Japan and in that respect doing 10 in one day is about the same as doing 10 every day. If the computers at the bank can handle 10 transfers today without crashing they probably can handle 10 transfers again tomorrow and also the day after that.

I found a number 311,236,113 ( 311 million ) to represent the total number of SWIFT messages flying around in Asia-Pacific region in one month, June 2013. If we calculate further from that assuming Japan represents about 30% of economic activity in Asia Pacific and each message has both sender and receiver, the number of SWIFT transfers processed in the second biggest bank in Japan it could be around 3 million every working day. Now please tell me you believe there could be a problem the bank computers overloading at level of some tens of them? My bet is that if some customer sends 100,000 of them every day the computers at the bank have enough overhead they can handle it and not sweat about it and the Bank says 'thank you' to the customer creating more revenue opportunities to the bank.

I remember because of building a few hundred ASIC mining devices Avalon claimed they caused a global world level shortage of SMD resistors which are some of the most commonly used components in electronic industry. I have also a vague recollection that BFL also claimed to have caused a short supply and chaos in global electronics industry of some common component when building also a few hundred boxes. Unfortunately I have forgotten what component that was and you can shoot me before I go back to try find what it was.

To me it seems that delusions of grandeur are rampant in bitcoin economy and everything Gox said about problems at the second biggest bank in Japan go straight into the same league.

[sturle]

Gox has let us understand they have run into problems related to overloading the computer systems at the second biggest bank in Japan

Do you have a reference for computer systems?  My impression is that all irregularities which make manual work for the bank is to blame.  E.g. wrong names or other information on accounts, or other banks returning or refusing to process transfers, or requesting return of transfers.  I'm surprised to hear it was the computer systems.

[ab8989]

Do you have a reference for computer systems?

I cannot find it at this moment, I thought it was on this thread but apparently not as I don't find it. I believe many of you remember the quote from some 3 days ago Gox talking about SWIFT limits and second biggest bank in Japan in the same sentence.

edit: I am blind, here it is:

14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)

So in here Gox is basically claiming they sent something in the range of million of SWIFT transfers every day.

[tvbcof]

Gox has let us understand they have run into problems related to overloading the computer systems at the second biggest bank in Japan

Do you have a reference for computer systems?  My impression is that all irregularities which make manual work for the bank is to blame.  E.g. wrong names or other information on accounts, or other banks returning or refusing to process transfers, or requesting return of transfers.  I'm surprised to hear it was the computer systems.

I'm fighting these issues right now and am in fact up rather than still snoozing to re-submit some information in an attempt to get a wire transfer queued.  The rejection of my last attempt was rejected for use of the wrong name.  Funny coincidence.

Yesterday there was an option for 'intl wire' and 'intl wire to US'.  I choose the latter.  It would not allow me input SWIFT info for lack of ABA.  When I instead selected to input ABA and used the ABA my banker told me to use for wires, Mt. Gox's system resolved this to a bank name (a wing of Wells Fargo.)  My 'withdraw method' was rejected because of this string it seems rather than my real name (which I am certain I DID use where it was clear that MY name was being requested.)

Today there is no longer a 'wire to US' option and I was able to add a SWIFT-based withdraw method.  It is under 'verification' at the moment.

I am sure that there are plenty of mistakes made by users due to the complex nature of such efforts, and they slow things down, but I am also sure that the various UI's employed by Mt. Gox are under development and are in a state of flux, and that they have bugs, inconsistencies, and documentation deficiencies which also conspire to create delays.

So far in my experience with Mt. Gox's verification and wire withdraw framework I will say that human interaction has been more necessary than either of us would like, but has been admirably low latency especially considering the time-zone differences.

[sturle]

Do you have a reference for computer systems?

I cannot find it at this moment, I thought it was on this thread but apparently not as I don't find it. I believe many of you remember the quote from some 3 days ago Gox talking about SWIFT limits and second biggest bank in Japan in the same sentence.

Yes, and I can not remember any mention about overloading computer systems.

Btw, Japan is a very large and developed economy, very different from the developing economies in the rest of Asia.  Most of the economic activity happens within Japan's borders, and most foreign trade is done by large companies buying and selling products in bulk.  10 SWIFT transfers a day isn't much, but I can believe MT's claim of that being more than most companies in Japan.  Toyota don't send a SWIFT transfer for each foreign part in each car.  They buy large shipments in bulk, and probably send payment for much less than 10 foreign orders a day by average.

[sturle]

Do you have a reference for computer systems?

I cannot find it at this moment, I thought it was on this thread but apparently not as I don't find it. I believe many of you remember the quote from some 3 days ago Gox talking about SWIFT limits and second biggest bank in Japan in the same sentence.

edit: I am blind, here it is:

14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)

So in here Gox is basically claiming they sent something in the range of million of SWIFT transfers every day.

I can see:
1. No mention of overloading computer systems.
2. No mention of a million SWIFT transfers every day.

Japan is economically very different from the rest of Asia.

[ab8989]

14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)

I can see:
1. No mention of overloading computer systems.
2. No mention of a million SWIFT transfers every day.

Japan is economically very different from the rest of Asia.

Well it does not exactly say the word computer, but since they are also in the same quote basically claiming they sent about a million SWIFT transfers every day it pretty much confirms the obvious which is that it is computer systems and not manual systems this quote is talking about as the bank is not going to handle million transfers manually.

Since they claim they represented more than half of the volume it means something in the range of million since the volumes at the bank are several millions.

I claim that my calculations make about sense and you are just refusing the interpret the quotes the obvious way without any kind of justification for that, just that you refuse to believe the obvious.

And Japan is different from the rest of asia but in the direction that Japan has bigger percentage of banking functions than many other parts so the number of SWIFT messages processed are probably higher in Japan than my calculations show.