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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 614608 times)
sturle
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August 15, 2013, 02:46:55 PM
 #681

Do you have a reference for computer systems?

I cannot find it at this moment, I thought it was on this thread but apparently not as I don't find it. I believe many of you remember the quote from some 3 days ago Gox talking about SWIFT limits and second biggest bank in Japan in the same sentence.

edit: I am blind, here it is:
14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)
So in here Gox is basically claiming they sent something in the range of million of SWIFT transfers every day.
I can see:
1. No mention of overloading computer systems.
2. No mention of a million SWIFT transfers every day.

Japan is economically very different from the rest of Asia.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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ab8989
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August 15, 2013, 02:49:25 PM
 #682

14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)

I can see:
1. No mention of overloading computer systems.
2. No mention of a million SWIFT transfers every day.

Japan is economically very different from the rest of Asia.

Well it does not exactly say the word computer, but since they are also in the same quote basically claiming they sent about a million SWIFT transfers every day it pretty much confirms the obvious which is that it is computer systems and not manual systems this quote is talking about as the bank is not going to handle million transfers manually.

Since they claim they represented more than half of the volume it means something in the range of million since the volumes at the bank are several millions.

I claim that my calculations make about sense and you are just refusing the interpret the quotes the obvious way without any kind of justification for that, just that you refuse to believe the obvious.

And Japan is different from the rest of asia but in the direction that Japan has bigger percentage of banking functions than many other parts so the number of SWIFT messages processed are probably higher in Japan than my calculations show.
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August 15, 2013, 02:52:52 PM
 #683

Just a general question.

Is there any practical/technical/security problem with simply printing off and mailing a buttload of cheques to people that request them? Waiting a week or two for a cheque in the mail would be much more preferable to waiting... never... for a bank wire.

Is there other weird fraud that can be perpetrated with a cheque that mtgox wants to avoid? or are they just being incompetent again by not doing cheques?

I sold all my coins at $50.
Do not take any advice from me.
joesmoe2012
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August 15, 2013, 03:07:38 PM
 #684

Okay, now my JPY transfer shows as processed, however it's the middle of the night japan time and i don't see the transfer incoming yet.

Will report back when i know more.

If anybody has any banking tips in japan, I'm all ears (fee free to PM).

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August 15, 2013, 03:14:53 PM
 #685

Just a general question.

Is there any practical/technical/security problem with simply printing off and mailing a buttload of cheques to people that request them? Waiting a week or two for a cheque in the mail would be much more preferable to waiting... never... for a bank wire.

Is there other weird fraud that can be perpetrated with a cheque that mtgox wants to avoid? or are they just being incompetent again by not doing cheques?
I suggested that to them, the support simply said NO, when asked why, they simply replied it is not implemented in their fucking process.
Then I question them the reasons, they ignore my questions and no reply is received anymore.

It seems MagicalTux is the only more intelligent guy in this fucking company, all the others are fucking slackers, doing nothing and waiting for the problem to get solved.

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Gryph
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August 15, 2013, 03:24:23 PM
 #686

Just a general question.

Is there any practical/technical/security problem with simply printing off and mailing a buttload of cheques to people that request them? Waiting a week or two for a cheque in the mail would be much more preferable to waiting... never... for a bank wire.

Is there other weird fraud that can be perpetrated with a cheque that mtgox wants to avoid? or are they just being incompetent again by not doing cheques?
I suggested that to them, the support simply said NO, when asked why, they simply replied it is not implemented in their fucking process.
Then I question them the reasons, they ignore my questions and no reply is received anymore.

It seems MagicalTux is the only more intelligent guy in this fucking company, all the others are fucking slackers, doing nothing and waiting for the problem to get solved.

Unbelievable.

Is there a word for something even lower than incompetence? Whatever that word is it describes MtGox exactly.

Oh wait, MtGox created that word.

Goxxed.

I sold all my coins at $50.
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August 15, 2013, 03:25:23 PM
 #687

Is there any practical/technical/security problem with simply printing off and mailing a buttload of cheques to people that request them?

If you cash over ¥ 1,000,000 via cheques you have to specify it with the Japanese customs office. Have fun! In Germany it is partially prohibited to redeem cheques. I have never cashed a cheque from Japan and do not know if that's possible. My last cheque I have got about 10 years ago from my old phone company. I first had to figure out how I can redeem the thing. It was just possible, but unusual.

Really, I think in this case it would be easier to send money via Western Union. Cheques are antique and cheques from foreign countrys are mysterious. I never ever have received something like that.

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August 15, 2013, 03:28:19 PM
 #688

Is there any practical/technical/security problem with simply printing off and mailing a buttload of cheques to people that request them?

If you cash over ¥ 1,000,000 via cheques you have to specify it with the Japanese customs office. Have fun! In Germany it is partially prohibited to redeem cheques. I have never cashed a cheque from Japan and do not know if that's possible. My last cheque I have got about 10 years ago from my old phone company. I first had to figure out how I can redeem the thing. It was just possible, but unusual.

Really, I think in this case it would be easier to send money via Western Union. Cheques are antique and cheques from foreign countrys are mysterious. I never ever have received something like that.

It's not really about cashing the cheque, that's what the end user does, it's about creating the cheque.

What's stopping or making it difficult for MtGox to *create* those cheques and mail them out?

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August 15, 2013, 03:42:53 PM
 #689

What's stopping or making it difficult for MtGox to *create* those cheques and mail them out?

I really do not know what you're talking about. How to create a cheque in Japan which is accepted by a Bank in your home country? I would guess that this is impossible. I've never seen anything like that. This works within the European Union. But the banks take astronomical fees. And a cheque from Japan? Not possible. No Bank will accept this. You have to travel to Japan to redeem it.

It's much easier to open a bank account in Japan. Why are not doing that? You can get your money from Gox in ¥ if you need it so urgent. Dollar not possible, thanks to the FINCEN.  

Cheques are dead. Nobody uses cheques these days.

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August 15, 2013, 03:53:42 PM
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What's stopping or making it difficult for MtGox to *create* those cheques and mail them out?

I really do not know what you're talking about. How to create a cheque in Japan which is accepted by a Bank in your home country? I would guess that this is impossible. I've never seen anything like that. This works within the European Union. But the banks take astronomical fees. And a cheque from Japan? Not possible. No Bank will accept this. You have to travel to Japan to redeem it.

It's much easier to open a bank account in Japan. Why are not doing that? You can get your money from Gox in ¥ if you need it so urgent. Dollar not possible, thanks to the FINCEN.  

Cheques are dead. Nobody uses cheques these days.

I don't see how its impossible. I get foreign cheques from banks around the world and I cash them in at my bank just fine, there are some fees ofcourse but that's what i accept.

Cheques are very far from dead. Just because YOU may not use them does mean no one else does.

Google for example has paid me by cheque every month for the last five years. And i live in canada, Google sends me a US dollar cheque which i cash just fine.

I sold all my coins at $50.
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davidgdg
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August 15, 2013, 03:55:16 PM
 #691

What's stopping or making it difficult for MtGox to *create* those cheques and mail them out?

I really do not know what you're talking about. How to create a cheque in Japan which is accepted by a Bank in your home country? I would guess that this is impossible. I've never seen anything like that. This works within the European Union. But the banks take astronomical fees. And a cheque from Japan? Not possible. No Bank will accept this. You have to travel to Japan to redeem it.

It's much easier to open a bank account in Japan. Why are not doing that? You can get your money from Gox in ¥ if you need it so urgent. Dollar not possible, thanks to the FINCEN.  

Cheques are dead. Nobody uses cheques these days.

Actually in the UK they are still widely used. In fact they are probably the main way of making payment between individuals and/or small businesses that don't have card facilities (of which there are many).  I would certainly expect my bank to accept a cheque drawn on a Japanese bank, though there might be some fees involved. But it may be different elsewhere.

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sturle
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August 15, 2013, 04:12:08 PM
 #692

14:17 <@MagicalTux> when we were in the second largest bank in Japan, we represented more than half of all the volume of SWIFT processed by that bank (almost overloading their systems a couple of times)

I can see:
1. No mention of overloading computer systems.
2. No mention of a million SWIFT transfers every day.

Japan is economically very different from the rest of Asia.
Well it does not exactly say the word computer, but since they are also in the same quote basically claiming they sent about a million SWIFT transfers every day it pretty much confirms the obvious which is that it is computer systems and not manual systems this quote is talking about as the bank is not going to handle million transfers manually.
A million SWIFT transfers is some number you pulled out of your hat.  You imply the bank has several million large companies as customers.  This is not realistic.

A SWIFT transfer isn't much manual work.  Returns and rejects are.
Quote
Since they claim they represented more than half of the volume it means something in the range of million since the volumes at the bank are several millions.
Source?

Quote
I claim that my calculations make about sense and you are just refusing the interpret the quotes the obvious way without any kind of justification for that, just that you refuse to believe the obvious.
Here is another quote from IRC, which you conveniently ignored:
Code:
14:10 < sturles> MagicalTux: Why only 10 SWIFT transfers per day?  Is that commonplace for customers in your bank?
14:12 <@MagicalTux> sturles, most companies in Japan will do one, maybe two SWIFT transfers a month to providers overseas (actually most will do zero)
Do you really think the bank has more than 30 million companies paying via SWIFT (most companies will do none) as customers?  Assuming 2 million SWIFT transfers a day where MtGox has half.  Let me ask again: Can you provide a source for that number?  In most cases a simple payment by credit card or another method will do fine, and there is no need for a SWIFT transfer.  Not daily.  Not every week.  Not even every month for most companies.
Quote
And Japan is different from the rest of asia but in the direction that Japan has bigger percentage of banking functions than many other parts so the number of SWIFT messages processed are probably higher in Japan than my calculations show.
Or it could be that Japan, as a highly advanced and organized society, has more practical payment options available to them.  E.g. international credit cards with low fees.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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August 15, 2013, 04:15:56 PM
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Actually in the UK they are still widely used. In fact they are probably the main way of making payment between individuals and/or small businesses that don't have card facilities (of which there are many).  I would certainly expect my bank to accept a cheque drawn on a Japanese bank, though there might be some fees involved. But it may be different elsewhere.

I do some research and found this site for example:

http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthread.php?114083-Cashing-a-cheque

It seems that cheques in Japan as in Germany and in many other countries not to be common. You can not compare it with the Anglo-American world. Other countries normaly do not use cheques, more precisely: bank cheques. It would also not change anything. AML and everything else also applies to bank cheques. There are even more requirements for these cheques.

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August 15, 2013, 04:30:50 PM
 #694

I do some research and found this site for example:

http://forum.gaijinpot.com/showthread.php?114083-Cashing-a-cheque

It seems that cheques in Japan as in Germany and in many other countries not to be common. You can not compare it with the Anglo-American world. Other countries normaly do not use cheques, more precisely: bank cheques. It would also not change anything. AML and everything else also applies to bank cheques. There are even more requirements for these cheques.

Hhhahaha wow, great investigative work with that forum thread!  Why the moderators still allow you to speak is unbelievable.  Worthless commentary. 
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August 15, 2013, 05:29:46 PM
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Several of the people trying to escalate the situation by spreading rumours here, are busy taking arbitrage as well.

I admit that.

I don't see how you could take advantage of arb if you can't withdraw the fiat....
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August 15, 2013, 05:31:38 PM
 #696

They could mail cheques drawn on Japanese banks to people in the US if they really wanted, but the customers in US would not like much the (very high) fees they'd need to pay in order to cash such a cheque in a US bank. If it's even possible, I do not know.

Plus, it's down right impossible to cash any bank cheque in much of continental Europe. I have never seen a cheque with my own eyes. In Europe, electronic bank wires (even between banks) have traditionally been very low cost, and with the introduction of SEPA, they're free. Anything that involves paper is very expensive.
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August 15, 2013, 05:45:23 PM
 #697

Guys,

I have a number of SWIFT (€) withdrawals pending, 3 digits, most from end of july, beginning of august.

The way I see it, after reading all this, I have 2 options:

1. Ask for cancellation, buy BTC, get them off gox asap, transfer to another exchange, sell, take at least a 10% loss. (BTC 10% higher on gox)

2. Wait...

What should I do?

Also, more importantly, if I choose 1, what exchange do you guys recommend? Bitstamp? I just want these frickin' BTC converted to € and on my bank account.

Thanks
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August 15, 2013, 06:01:16 PM
 #698

Several of the people trying to escalate the situation by spreading rumours here, are busy taking arbitrage as well.
I admit that.
I don't see how you could take advantage of arb if you can't withdraw the fiat....
Because it is amazingly easy to sell at or above MtGox rates just about everywhere, except on a few exchanges.  MtGox is still the reference rate most places.  If you have a bank account in Japan there are no problems withdrawing either, but you will currently get 2.5% less if selling BTC for JPY on MtGox compared to USD.  SEPA withdrawals will go through as well, but there are still delays for SEPA withdrawal making it unattractive compared to the other options.  If you have money to place in medium term savings, you can deposit on USD MtGox via BTC at instant 10% profit.  Expect very competitive BTC prices on MtGox when their fiat withdrawal problems are solved.  I don't want to be out then.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
sturle
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August 15, 2013, 06:07:45 PM
 #699

I have a number of SWIFT (€) withdrawals pending, 3 digits, most from end of july, beginning of august.
[...]
What should I do?
SEPA is much faster than SWIFT at the moment for EUR.  SEPA queue is actually getting shorter.  If you can't wait a week or two for your money, there are a few other options giving much better prices than Bitstamp, which I consider the panic option.  E.g. sell BTC locally for cash via Localbitcoins.com.

Sjå http://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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August 15, 2013, 06:12:17 PM
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Several of the people trying to escalate the situation by spreading rumours here, are busy taking arbitrage as well.
I admit that.
I don't see how you could take advantage of arb if you can't withdraw the fiat....
Because it is amazingly easy to sell at or above MtGox rates just about everywhere, except on a few exchanges.  MtGox is still the reference rate most places.  If you have a bank account in Japan there are no problems withdrawing either, but you will currently get 2.5% less if selling BTC for JPY on MtGox compared to USD.  SEPA withdrawals will go through as well, but there are still delays for SEPA withdrawal making it unattractive compared to the other options.  If you have money to place in medium term savings, you can deposit on USD MtGox via BTC at instant 10% profit.  Expect very competitive BTC prices on MtGox when their fiat withdrawal problems are solved.  I don't want to be out then.

Please enlighten me where I can exchange at Gox price?  

Hmm and lets look at the top merchant processing in the Bitcoin marketplace (because that is what drives the Bitcoin economy) and see what they use for pricing:

Coinbase - No Gox
Bips - No Gox
BitPay - No Gox
blockchain - No Gox

I find it hilarious that you think that Gox price is still relevant despite the mountain of evidence otherwise.
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