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Author Topic: MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]  (Read 855596 times)
sturle
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August 27, 2013, 07:10:03 PM
 #1101

Gox isn't really issuing SEPA nor wire transfers, they just give them now and then to random people while they stack up their profits, just like a Ponzi scam artist does.
Many people on here have been taking the position that it's OK if Mt. Gox won't pay out USD, as long as they will pay out Bitcoins.  Of course, there's a 10% or so spread loss when you do that. But beyond that, when does Mt. Gox run out of Bitcoins? There's no reason anybody should put Bitcoins into Mt. Gox at this point; you're on the wrong side of the price spread and can't get money out if you sell. There are about 30,000 Bitcoins for sale on Mt. Gox today, down from previous weeks, with about twice that on the buy side. At some point, those Bitcoins will be gone, or priced out of the market.
Yesterday alone people withdrew more than 100 million JPY from MtGox.  Presumably to do arbitrage.  You can't do arbitrage without depositing BTC.  I deposited 80 BTC myself recently, bought from other exchanges, to do arbitrage, and will deposit 80 more as soon as my withdrawal arrives.

Btw, there are about 53k BTC in open asks at MtGox.  It has been below that many times before.  E.g. in April this year.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
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August 27, 2013, 07:13:17 PM
 #1102

Waiting since 2nd July 2013 06:54:11 for USD withdrawal to European Bank.

Support have not been able to provide a date when they expected to be able to process the withdrawal.
You should cancel it and withdraw EUR via SEPA instead.  You will have your money in less than a week.

See:

A short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals:
  • JPY domestic is next day
    • one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
    • one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
  • EUR via SEPA is less than one week
    • maximum per user is one withdrawal per 20 days
    • very large withdrawals can be delayed up tp two weeks
  • International withdrawals are very slow.
    • Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
    • Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
    • It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.
Any counterexamples?
(There are NO known counterexamples.)

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 27, 2013, 07:16:54 PM
 #1103

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll try to get set up for the SEPA withdrawal.

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August 27, 2013, 07:50:43 PM
 #1104

I'm in the exact same situation (waiting for international transfer from 2nd July).
I'm not sure how to 'cancel' the operation on MtGox, I'll try right away and keep you posted.

Thanks!
Waiting since 2nd July 2013 06:54:11 for USD withdrawal to European Bank.

Support have not been able to provide a date when they expected to be able to process the withdrawal.
You should cancel it and withdraw EUR via SEPA instead.  You will have your money in less than a week.

See:

A short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals:
  • JPY domestic is next day
    • one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
    • one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
  • EUR via SEPA is less than one week
    • maximum per user is one withdrawal per 20 days
    • very large withdrawals can be delayed up tp two weeks
  • International withdrawals are very slow.
    • Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
    • Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
    • It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.
Any counterexamples?
(There are NO known counterexamples.)

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Serpens66
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August 27, 2013, 08:08:50 PM
 #1105

I'm in the exact same situation (waiting for international transfer from 2nd July).
I'm not sure how to 'cancel' the operation on MtGox, I'll try right away and keep you posted.

Thanks!

--->

One question:
How to cancel a withdrawal on Mtgox?

Chat with or email support.

@sturle:
I'm excited to hear about your withdrawal and if you will get ur money in less than one week.

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August 27, 2013, 08:13:16 PM
 #1106

If you requested a withdrawal anytime after July 1st you can cancel that request and sell your BTC elsewhere at a premium probably.

No, because if you cancel your withdrawal request you still have only USD or EUR in you account - and not BTC.

You'd still have to exchange USD -> BTC on MtGox before you can move it to another exchange.

Yes, that's my point. You cancel your withdrawal request and get USD/EUR back into your account. You then buy BTC and move BTC somewhere else to sell. Before it made little sense to buy an asset with falling price, but now the price is rising and it's more favorable to own BTC.

Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.
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August 27, 2013, 08:36:53 PM
 #1107

If you requested a withdrawal anytime after July 1st you can cancel that request and sell your BTC elsewhere at a premium probably.
No, because if you cancel your withdrawal request you still have only USD or EUR in you account - and not BTC.

You'd still have to exchange USD -> BTC on MtGox before you can move it to another exchange.
Yes, that's my point. You cancel your withdrawal request and get USD/EUR back into your account. You then buy BTC and move BTC somewhere else to sell. Before it made little sense to buy an asset with falling price, but now the price is rising and it's more favorable to own BTC.
If you need the fiat, and you can withdraw either JPY to a Japanese account or EUR to an account within SEPA (EU + EEA + Switzerland and Monaco), you should sell at MtGox and withdraw from there.  The price is better there than on all other exchanges.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 27, 2013, 08:53:17 PM
 #1108

Quote
Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

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August 27, 2013, 09:43:53 PM
 #1109

Quote
Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

Yes, I considered editing that line out knowing someone would call me on it reasoning exactly as you did.

I left it in because Mt.Gox does still allow the exchange of BTC for fiat. That's not the part of the process that broke. Moving that fiat via certain channels is where the problem arose.
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August 28, 2013, 07:03:04 AM
 #1110

Quote
Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.

I respectfully disagree with the quote above, a BTC exchange MUST have both the option to buy BTC with fiat AND to sell BTC for fiat. If on one side there is an in-balance/delay, then it is not a proper exchange, and in the "real" financial world this would mean they would be out of business in not more than 3 days. And this is what I believe is going to happen with Mt.Gox (but I don't mean in 3 days). But I really hope I am wrong and this is not going to happen, but I am already OUT of Mt. Gox, impossible to do serious work with Mt.Gox as a partner.

But I do agree with the other part of the post of the same author, about cancelling Mt.Gox fiat withdrawals, buying BTC, holding them in an offline wallet or transferring them to another exchange for fiat withdrawal.

Yes, I considered editing that line out knowing someone would call me on it reasoning exactly as you did.

I left it in because Mt.Gox does still allow the exchange of BTC for fiat. That's not the part of the process that broke. Moving that fiat via certain channels is where the problem arose.

Or so they claim.  We'll find out the truth eventually.

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August 28, 2013, 08:30:46 AM
 #1111

The sepa EUR withdraw seems to be working fine now. Got my last xfer within 3 working days.
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August 28, 2013, 08:39:26 AM
 #1112

I'm really among the people who think they are not trying to fraud but I don't understand WHY they don't take another bank! Or split the amount into several account and after send it from there.

I called the Polish bank and indeed they have a max limit of 120k€ per day (after I was a simple caller so I guess some negociations are possible at another level) but why don't they open 10 bank account in this case? They will be able to send around 1 milion per day no?
Or several bank account in several banks and even the time that someone deposit the money on the Polish bank if they move it to "toto bank" (it will take 1 day) they will be able after to face all the demands and to grow faster in Europe...
I don't get it...
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August 28, 2013, 09:12:48 AM
 #1113

Updated short summary of what we currently know about withdrawals.

Changes: SEPA > 30k EUR have very low priority.  It will usually be faster to split those in 30k chunks to get in the normal FIFO queue.  Users can now make one SEPA withdrawal per 10 days.  It used to be 20.  Normal withdrawals are processed in FIFO order, except for very small ones which get priority and are used to fill their daily quota.

  • JPY domestic is next day
    • one extra delay recorded due to misspelling of Japanese name
    • one day extra recorded due to extraordinary volume (JPY withdrawal volume was > 1 million USD yesterday)
  • EUR via SEPA is less than one week
    • maximum per user is one withdrawal per 10 days
    • smaller than 1000 EUR will get in a priority queue and used to fill the daily quota
    • larger than 1000 EUR, up to 30000 EUR are processed in FIFO order
    • withdrawals > 30000 EUR will be delayed for more than 10 days; split in chunks of 30k EUR for faster processing
  • International withdrawals are very slow.
    • Only 10 standard international withdrawals are processed daily.
    • Queue is strictly FIFO, unclear if FIFO is per user or per withdrawal.
    • It is possible to make an express manual withdrawal via another payment provider for a fee.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 28, 2013, 09:17:55 AM
 #1114

I called the Polish bank and indeed they have a max limit of 120k€ per day (after I was a simple caller so I guess some negociations are possible at another level) but why don't they open 10 bank account in this case? They will be able to send around 1 milion per day no?
Call the bank again and ask if the 120k limit is per customer or per account.  I bet it is per customer.
Quote
Or several bank account in several banks and even the time that someone deposit the money on the Polish bank if they move it to "toto bank" (it will take 1 day) they will be able after to face all the demands and to grow faster in Europe...
I don't get it...
Call a few other banks and ask if they would like a large Bitcoin exchange for customer.  Tell them about the fraud problem as well, and the sad stories about the banking problems of other Bitcoin exchanges, in case they haven't heard them.  Perhaps Bitcoin24 could be a good example in Poland?

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 28, 2013, 09:30:51 AM
 #1115

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.

So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)
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August 28, 2013, 09:59:21 AM
 #1116

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.
? You should take a introductory course in elementary logic.

Do you think all historians who write about the black plague have tried it themselves?  Or that everyone who defend the right to abortion have tried an abortion themselves?  Or the opposite?

I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts.  Nothing else.  I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself.  And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.

Quote
So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)
It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.

Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner.  Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010.
I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell.  See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.pl
Warning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
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August 28, 2013, 11:20:21 AM
 #1117

Mtgox withdrew in JPY ?
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August 28, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
 #1118

@sturle, you are really annoying...

I want to talk with real users of platforms. I didn't answer your last post because it's obvious that you can look good in front of some people but I nailed your argumentation in 2 posts just yesterday (hard when someone use the same logic no?).

Let me clarify something : your last argument was "Did you never try to defend something you never did yourself?"

>>End of the game, come back home
we are talking about money here so my answer is NO I don't defend something I don't know on a topic supposed to help people understanding how they use THEIR MONEY because the big difference between you and I is that I currently have money in this business.
? You should take a introductory course in elementary logic.

Do you think all historians who write about the black plague have tried it themselves?  Or that everyone who defend the right to abortion have tried an abortion themselves?  Or the opposite?

I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts.  Nothing else.  I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself.  And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.

Quote
So I let you in peace but don't bother me anymore with this, you are OR a MG sales man OR a naive guy thinking that just logic and figures can explain everything in this business...in both case you look and act like a troll.

(I don't even wanna know where you took your 10 days withdrawal limit neither your stupid "proofs" I already kicked your ass on it)
It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.

Haha!!! That's it, let's let people decide what they want but I have to give you this : you are a loudy funny person!
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August 28, 2013, 12:30:09 PM
 #1119

It would be impossible to give a formal proof of correctness.  (For the reasons why this is impossible, I suggest an introductory course in formal logic at any university.)  The information can however easily be proven wrong by giving one single counterexample.  I.e. an example which contradict the hypothesis.  As long as no counterexamples are found, and there are a lot of confirmations, I assume the information (hypothesis) to be correct, and you missed my ass by miles.  In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

I am just a normal customer of MtGox.  I never did any work for MtGox, nor did I ever receive any form of compensation from MtGox for providing facts here or elsewhere.
Theorie and practise. Sooner or later all money reached my account. The duration was between 3 days and 4 weeks, and this can switch at all times. Difficult to prove anything.

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August 28, 2013, 12:57:47 PM
 #1120

In case other people want to know about where I got the 10 days from: I let someone from MtGox support have a look at my previous version, and got some clarifications and updates.  The reduction from 20 to 10 days happened very recently.

Hmm.. 20days would match to my experience, 10 days not.

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