MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[sturle]

Over the month, it is as low as never before.

I'll not claim never, but yes.  Total trade volume the last month has been record low.  It was quite low in July 2011 as well.

Short volume spikes represent the moments when more smart money is leaving this rididulous company with its ridiculous, misleading information policy. What is your motivation to promote this kind of business doing? Any other interests?

Smart money wouldn't buy at 10 to 20% above the price at other exchanges unless it is a speculative buy in expectation of increasing prices.  Those money won't leave.  Smart money intending to leave will leave as fiat.  Dumb money intending to leave will do so at a 10 to 20% loss, but this will show as a volume spike on at least two exchanges.

I dislike smear and FUD campaigns, and my only motivation is to stop the epidemic of zombies losing their money on bad advice.

[1714202689]

1714202689

[Zarathustra]

Over the month, it is as low as never before.

I'll not claim never, but yes.  Total trade volume the last month has been record low.  It was quite low in July 2011 as well.

Short volume spikes represent the moments when more smart money is leaving this rididulous company with its ridiculous, misleading information policy. What is your motivation to promote this kind of business doing? Any other interests?

Smart money wouldn't buy at 10 to 20% above the price at other exchanges unless it is a speculative buy in expectation of increasing prices.

 Those money won't leave.  Smart money intending to leave will leave as fiat.  Dumb money intending to leave will do so at a 10 to 20% loss, but this will show as a volume spike on at least two exchanges.

I dislike smear and FUD campaigns, and my only motivation is to stop the epidemic of zombies losing their money on bad advice.

It's a risk premium. They buy because of the risk, that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. You are denying these facts and against these facts you are promoting such irresponsible, misleading zombie-business-behavior.

[doobeedoo]

The truth is it seems pretty random. What's obvious is that the "withdrawals are processed in receiving order" is utter BS. Just now some people reports SEPA withdrawals clearing in 15/20 days, some others have been +5 weeks waiting.

International wires are processed in receiving order.  No word about the processing order of SEPA withdrawals, but I suspect they start with the oldest and run through the queue while skipping those which are too large to fit within the daily quota.  This means smaller SEPA withdrawals will have a small advantage.

If you have been waiting 5 weeks for a SEPA withdrawal, you should contact support and ask if anything is wrong.  It probably is.  Some wrong info perhaps, like joesmoe who misspelled his Japanese name, or it got in the international (SWIFT) queue by mistake.

5 weeks seem to be a short time, depending on the size of the withdraw.

05-14-2013 - 800 EUR sepa - received 05-21-2013
05-22-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 05-23-2013
06-01-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 06-04-2013
06-04-2013 - 1000 EUR sepa - received 07-30-2013
06-19-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 07-01-2013
06-27-2013 - 750 EUR sepa - received 08-08-2013
06-28-2013 - 750 EUR int.wire - still open
07-01-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 07-16-2013
08-09-2013 - 300 EUR sepa - still open

as you can see, it may take about 2 month for 1000 EUR.
my limit is 1000 EUR per day.
support giving just standard answers - no help.

[sturle]

It's a risk premium. They buy because of the risk, that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. You are denying these facts and against these facts you are promoting such irresponsible, misleading zombie-business-behavior.

I can't see any reason to be concerned about MtGox's economy at their current volume.  Their income is good and likely much higher than their expenses.  People have been claiming bankruptcy over the Dwolla seizures, but when the amount became public the size fit straight into Mark's description.  Not a problem.  CoinLab is in liquidation, and the suit was without any merit anyway.  They never did anything to get licensed as a money transmitter.  So far MtGox seems to be in good health economically.

Their information could be better, more precise and more updated, but so far I haven't had any problems staying informed by watching the right channels.  Just don't believe anything the trolls here tell you second-hand.

Please tell me which facts I am denying.

[sturle]

The truth is it seems pretty random. What's obvious is that the "withdrawals are processed in receiving order" is utter BS. Just now some people reports SEPA withdrawals clearing in 15/20 days, some others have been +5 weeks waiting.

International wires are processed in receiving order.  No word about the processing order of SEPA withdrawals, but I suspect they start with the oldest and run through the queue while skipping those which are too large to fit within the daily quota.  This means smaller SEPA withdrawals will have a small advantage.

If you have been waiting 5 weeks for a SEPA withdrawal, you should contact support and ask if anything is wrong.  It probably is.  Some wrong info perhaps, like joesmoe who misspelled his Japanese name, or it got in the international (SWIFT) queue by mistake.

5 weeks seem to be a short time, depending on the size of the withdraw.

05-14-2013 - 800 EUR sepa - received 05-21-2013
05-22-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 05-23-2013
06-01-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 06-04-2013
06-04-2013 - 1000 EUR sepa - received 07-30-2013
06-19-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 07-01-2013
06-27-2013 - 750 EUR sepa - received 08-08-2013
06-28-2013 - 750 EUR int.wire - still open
07-01-2013 - 500 EUR sepa - received 07-16-2013
08-09-2013 - 300 EUR sepa - still open

as you can see, it may take about 2 month for 1000 EUR.
my limit is 1000 EUR per day.
support giving just standard answers - no help.

This fits well with the latest information from MtGox.  SEPA withdrawal times are decreasing.  Aug. 9th was a Friday, and if it was done in normal daytime in Europe processing started on Monday 12th.  It should arrive any time now.  Just cancel your international wire.  It is going to take a very long time.  As a verified user you can easily increase your daily limit to 10k EUR by asking support.

[Zarathustra]

It's a risk premium. They buy because of the risk, that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. You are denying these facts and against these facts you are promoting such irresponsible, misleading zombie-business-behavior.

I can't see any reason to be concerned about MtGox's economy at their current volume.  Their income is good and likely much higher than their expenses.  People have been claiming bankruptcy over the Dwolla seizures, but when the amount became public the size fit straight into Mark's description.  Not a problem.  CoinLab is in liquidation, and the suit was without any merit anyway.  They never did anything to get licensed as a money transmitter.  So far MtGox seems to be in good health economically.

Their information could be better, more precise and more updated, but so far I haven't had any problems staying informed by watching the right channels.  Just don't believe anything the trolls here tell you second-hand.

Please tell me which facts I am denying.

As I wrote above: It's a risk premium. You are denying the fact that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. The merchants (smart money) left gox already. They are not stupid.

[Inedible]

Sturle & Zarathustra

Looks like you'll have to agree to disagree on this point.


We both get the points you're making and some will agree with one and others will agree with the other.

This is an issue of opinion and neither one is necessarily correct.

Time will tell which one of you is right for this occasion though.

[sturle]

As I wrote above: It's a risk premium. You are denying the fact that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. The merchants (smart money) left gox already. They are not stupid.

The smart money are still on MtGox doing arbitrage, just look at the JPY and EUR volume recently for proof.  The big players are still there, just look at the total volume recently for proof.  MtGox's order book is currently 13.5 million USD deep on the bid side.  500k less than the most I have seen, which was 14 million USD.  And there are no other exchanges showing more depth due to money leaving MtGox.  Evidence shows that very little money is leaving MtGox, and their market share is very healthy.  Even increasing during the last few days.

You have to explain how a company with a very healthy turnaround and profit and a sustained market share > 50% can go bankrupt due to information policy.  Bitcoin exchanges have traditionally closed due to banking problems (most common) or technical/security problems (deleting wallet, security breach, etc).  I don't know of any exchange going out of business due to information policy.

Bitstamp are in direct violation of the law in both GB, where the company is registered, and in Slovenia where their bank account is.  Do you think any smart money are going there?  At least MtGox has the formalities in order in Japan where they are registered.  Customers from the USSA have some problems due to their own incompetent government agencies.  That's fortunately not a problem for me, but may be for exchanges dealing with US customers.  Better be 100% in line with local laws and regulation when that happens, or go the way of Bitcoin24.

[Rampion]

Sturle: just two days ago there were 16M on Gox's order book. And you should have seen much more, it topped to aprox. 23M before the April, 10th crash.

[tvbcof]

As I wrote above: It's a risk premium. You are denying the fact that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. The merchants (smart money) left gox already. They are not stupid.

People living hand-to-mouth are typically going to be at a dis-advantage in any financial endeavor.  People who are not can take advantage of extra opportunities.  Sometimes this advantage is even codified into law.  e.g., long term capital gains tax rates.

I would not necessarily characterize merchants as 'smart money', but rather that their business model puts them at a dis-advantage and can box them out of advantageous exchange rate situations.

[BlueTemplar]

BitStamp :
Withdrawn (SEPA) $523.13 on July 25, 2013, 8:59 p.m., received 391,48€ at my bank on 29/07/2013.

MtGox :
Withdrawn (SEPA) 410.02€ on 2013/07/25 20:59:09, received 405,92€ at my bank on 31/07/2013 (through Mt. Gox Poland Inc.).

[ardana123]

these are all small withdrawals, what about 4 or 5 figure sepa withdrawals.

[OhShei8e]

As I wrote above: It's a risk premium. You are denying the fact that such companies with such information policies evidently have a high risk of going bankrupt. The merchants (smart money) left gox already. They are not stupid.

A wise man keeps all options open. If I would believe that Gox goes bankrupt, then I would immediately sell everything about Bitstamp and retire completely from the Bitcoin business. At least for the moment.

Gox holds 80% of all USD deposits. Do you think they can go bankrupt without the price will collapses? That would be the quadrature of the circle my friend.

[sturle]

Sturle: just two days ago there were 16M on Gox's order book. And you should have seen much more, it topped to aprox. 23M before the April, 10th crash.

Probably, if I'd looked. :-)

It is looking very healthy.  Bids increasing since beginning of July, and more than 72k BTC on the ask side.  Ask side has decreased a little, but no abnormal fluctuations.  Still higher than the beginning of April.  The zombie outbreak is smaller than I expected, but I guess the other exchanges can't even take a small one without tanking.

[OhShei8e]

Sturle: just two days ago there were 16M on Gox's order book. And you should have seen much more, it topped to aprox. 23M before the April, 10th crash.

Probably, if I'd looked. :-)

It is looking very healthy.  Bids increasing since beginning of July, and more than 72k BTC on the ask side.  Ask side has decreased a little, but no abnormal fluctuations.  Still higher than the beginning of April.  The zombie outbreak is smaller than I expected, but I guess the other exchanges can't even take a small one without tanking.

Just a few weeks ago there were 115k BTC on the Ask site. I am now in the middle of my first abritrage. Bought 5 BTC on bitcoin.de at 78 € and now sell 4 BTC at 99.5 € on Gox. This was only a test, but I will earn 20% (1 BTC)! I would not call the current market situation "very healthy", but very lucrative.  

Bitcoin.de has verified my identity now (Postident) and I can now buy larger quantities. This works unfortunately only for Germans easily. (Every German is registered with name and address to the authorities. These data are stored on our ID cards. Thus, lawfully identification is very easy and without charge for Germans in Germany.)

[ardana123]

99 euro, dafuq? 1 btc is 90 euro on gox right now.

[OhShei8e]

99 euro, dafuq? 1 btc is 90 euro on gox right now.

Yes, at the moment. We soon see $ 135 on Gox. Thats € 101, but I always speculate very conservative, so I sell for € 99.5.

[SGExodus]

99 euro, dafuq? 1 btc is 90 euro on gox right now.

Yes, at the moment. We soon see $ 135 on Gox. Thats € 101, but I always speculate very conservative, so I sell for € 99.5.

That's not the right way to do arbitrage.    You should sell immediately at the current gox price (perhaps even lower so you get immediate sales), withdraw the money, and re-fund bitstamp when withdrawal is done.  Rinse and Repeat.

[sturle]

these are all small withdrawals, what about 4 or 5 figure sepa withdrawals.

Looking good.  Just read a few pages back.  Note that SEPA maximum is 50 000 EUR.  Larger single transactions can not be sent via SEPA, and will become international wire.

[ardana123]

are you like a sales agent for gox or something?