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zeroblock
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July 15, 2013, 11:22:52 PM |
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It is impossible to know Mt.Gox's liquidity position at this moment, but there are things we know for certain: 1.) Mt.Gox's US entity, Mutum Signum had its accounts frozen. More than likely a large portion of their USD revenue was tied up in that Dwolla account. They may or may not get these funds back. I would expect they would have to get their Money transmitter license in all 50 states before these funds could be released. That would take at least 12 months and $2M in fees/surety bonds(1) 2.) No one has gotten a wire out for almost a month, if they had they would have claimed the 0.75 BTC bounty.(2) 3.) Bitcoin holders are willing to take a 5-10% cut just to move their BTC out of Mt.Gox. That's the reason why the spread is so large vs. Bitstamp.(3)(4) 4.) Legal defense is expensive. They are fighting 2 fronts, one with Coinlab, and the other registering as an money transmitter in all 50 states. They will lose the case against CoinLab for $75 MM. Even if the outcome looked more positive, no bank would lend them money given the uncertainty of the outcome of the suit.(5) 5.) Volume is at January lows, their trading revenue won't be enough to cover both legal fronts and operational costs.(5) 6.) Mt.Gox consistently releases confusing and contradictory information, so their "official" statements have no value. 7.) Mt.Gox used to exchange liberty reserve dollars. Any entity touching LR dollars has serious going concern. I can assume they will have some legal issues with this as well. With that being said, there aren't many explanations that fit. But even if Mt.Gox collapses, you still have rather large markets with Bitstamp, Coinbase, and Btc-e, which should be able to provide enough liquidity/volume until some US exchanges become compliant. (1) http://thegenesisblock.com/town-hall-discussion-with-gavin-andresen-and-patrick-murck/(2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251895.0(3) http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/(4) http://thegenesisblock.com/bitcoin-mid-year-review-and-outlook/(5) http://thegenesisblock.com/mt-gox-withdrawal-freeze-driving-significant-liquidity-concerns/ |
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eldentyrell
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felonious vagrancy, personified
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July 16, 2013, 12:05:17 AM |
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1.) Mt.Gox's US entity, Mutum Signum had its accounts frozen. More than likely a large portion of their USD revenue was tied up in that Dwolla account.
I'm pretty sure they kept the balance in that account to the bare minimum, and in fact this is why Dwolla transfers were so slow for so long. Still, the situation is certainly ominous. |
The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators. So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
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zeroblock
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July 16, 2013, 03:03:36 AM |
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I'm sure that they did in the many months prior to April. However, April/May's trading volume was exceptionally high. Dwolla may have flagged/delayed withdraws from the account before Mt.Gox assets were seized. Its impossible to know.
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Grami
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July 16, 2013, 05:37:54 AM |
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nsfsj
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July 16, 2013, 11:56:44 AM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
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el_rlee
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July 16, 2013, 01:04:16 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
There was a thing like support? And: source, please? |
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nsfsj
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July 16, 2013, 02:16:46 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
There was a thing like support? And: source, please? I do not have any source else than that they've stopped to respond on support issues. They usually responded within 24h prior to this weekend. I can only speak for my self, of course. They might still respond to others and on other issues than withdrawals. |
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EBM
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July 16, 2013, 06:59:42 PM |
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Waiting for 25 days and the lowest amount SEPA (953 Euros on 14/4/13) was cancelled without any notifications today. "Cancel of: Withdraw to account NATIONAL WESTMINSTER BANK PLC No SEPA route".
Contacted support at #mtgox and then I found out that MTGox can't send to NatWest banks! Pissed doesn't even start to cover it! At no point anywhere could I find notification of this.... and I waited 25 days to find out! Also found out their SEPA limit is only 60,000 euros! They can and do pay to NatWest. We're a verified trader and cash out to NW here in UK. Gox not paid us since June 12 though, so maybe they don't any more... |
BTC: 1DZnyYaZ2VcQWNyYayNBqfTVQw2JQAmdA5
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zeroblock
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July 16, 2013, 07:45:02 PM |
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Another customer suffering from withdraws...
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wingding
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July 16, 2013, 08:46:46 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! |
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joesmoe2012
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July 16, 2013, 08:48:28 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! MtGox doesnt know the meaning of the word now. |
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sd
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July 16, 2013, 08:56:06 PM |
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If the problem really is a daily bank account limit why don't they just open another account at another bank? I suspect because they really want an excuse to hang on to this money either because they need it or they see it as an interest free loan.
GOX are not to be trusted, They lost their entire user database then lied about it before they got hax0red and people (including me) still went back to them.
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sd
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July 16, 2013, 09:05:41 PM |
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I actually saw a major advantage of MtGox in dealing with the fiat payments. bitcoin.de is just a market place, not an exchange. In a sense GOXes .6% are cheaper for what is on offer than the .5% from bitcoin.de. Yes, they have some safeguards in place, but still, if something goes wrong in the line of an unauthorised account use, it is yourself who has to deal with it.
Unfortunately the whole discussion is kind of pointless as GOX is currently not providing anything near to be called service. Simply not handing their customers money back renders all their nice features useless.
Exchange means they hold everything. Market means they only hold the BTC you are trading. I don't want anyone holding my BTC or fiat for a second longer than they have to because when it comes down to it many of these places have got hacked, or collapsed overnight. Tradehill, bitcoinica, the polish exchange that wiped its wallet.dat, that big GOX hack, and so on. |
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notme
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July 16, 2013, 09:27:21 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! How much more info do you need? They explained they would shut down for a while. They explained they are back with several new banks, but it will take a while to ramp up and to work through the backlog. They explained new requests would not be processed until the backlog was handled. I'm sorry that your money is tied up, but historically this is not out of the norm for MtGox. There have been SEPA delays, Dwolla delays, account closures, and transaction limits imposed by banks that have caused similar delays in the past. Please learn from this experience and research any companies you are thinking about sending large amounts of money to. If you wait a month, I'm confident your funds will come through. But dealing with such large amounts of fiat money as a startup is a very difficult task and sometimes things don't flow as smoothly as we'd like. |
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Bugpowder
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July 16, 2013, 09:58:52 PM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! How much more info do you need? They explained they would shut down for a while. They explained they are back with several new banks, but it will take a while to ramp up and to work through the backlog. They explained new requests would not be processed until the backlog was handled. I'm sorry that your money is tied up, but historically this is not out of the norm for MtGox. There have been SEPA delays, Dwolla delays, account closures, and transaction limits imposed by banks that have caused similar delays in the past. Please learn from this experience and research any companies you are thinking about sending large amounts of money to. If you wait a month, I'm confident your funds will come through. But dealing with such large amounts of fiat money as a startup is a very difficult task and sometimes things don't flow as smoothly as we'd like. I waited a month. Then I cancelled and got coins. They are only capable of cancelling wires, not sending them. :-P |
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flound1129
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July 17, 2013, 01:41:20 AM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! How much more info do you need? They explained they would shut down for a while. They explained they are back with several new banks, but it will take a while to ramp up and to work through the backlog. They explained new requests would not be processed until the backlog was handled. Doesn't look like the backlog is being handled though... |
Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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notme
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July 17, 2013, 01:50:19 AM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! How much more info do you need? They explained they would shut down for a while. They explained they are back with several new banks, but it will take a while to ramp up and to work through the backlog. They explained new requests would not be processed until the backlog was handled. Doesn't look like the backlog is being handled though... I've seen several reports of funds being received in the past few days, but feel free to continue worrying. It will remind you to be careful who you give your money to next time. |
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flound1129
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July 17, 2013, 01:51:57 AM |
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Anyone else thinking of legal actions? MtGox has now stopped their support as well, it seems.
Certainly, yes! We customers have deposited a lot of money there, and that money cannot just evaporate. They can be frozen, ot stealen. MtGox should provide more info now! How much more info do you need? They explained they would shut down for a while. They explained they are back with several new banks, but it will take a while to ramp up and to work through the backlog. They explained new requests would not be processed until the backlog was handled. Doesn't look like the backlog is being handled though... I've seen several reports of funds being received in the past few days, but feel free to continue worrying. It will remind you to be careful who you give your money to next time. I'm not an idiot. I canceled my withdrawals and transferred everything out in Bitcoin the day the withdrawal notice went up. |
Multipool - Always mine the most profitable coin - Scrypt, X11 or SHA-256!
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Spaceman_Spiff
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₪``Campaign Manager´´₪
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July 17, 2013, 02:13:13 AM |
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I've seen several reports of funds being received in the past few days.
Where? |
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notme
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July 17, 2013, 02:41:41 AM |
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I'm not an idiot. I canceled my withdrawals and transferred everything out in Bitcoin the day the withdrawal notice went up.
Not necessarily a bad idea.... depending on how close to the front of the queue you were. I've seen several reports of funds being received in the past few days.
Where? Several posts on these forums.... I'm too lazy to find them. And of course, take forum posts with a grain of salt. |
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