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papamoi
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October 13, 2013, 09:26:07 AM |
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hi guys
anyone think of a class action or something similar against mtgox?
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Luno
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October 13, 2013, 10:29:33 AM |
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hi guys
anyone think of a class action or something similar against mtgox?
I depends on which law hey are under. We might have to press criminal charges on them first for fraud to have a go in civil court. Are we ready to do that? Do we report them to both Japan and US authorities? |
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sturle
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October 13, 2013, 10:41:09 AM |
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anyone think of a class action or something similar against mtgox?
I depends on which law hey are under. We might have to press criminal charges on them first for fraud to have a go in civil court. Are we ready to do that? Do we report them to both Japan and US authorities? Japan. The US authorities have been making most of the trouble in the first place, and hold the key to solving them. The best would be to report the US authorities to the US authorities, or perhaps the Japan authorities or both. Its a mess. I don't know if they have anything similar to class action in Japan. Btw, if you are going to Japan to show up in court, you may use the opportunity to get a Japanese bank account and withdraw your money. |
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills. |
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Luno
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October 13, 2013, 10:49:54 AM |
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If it's just about getting your money out, Then you have that option. If they still are taking new deposits and you object to that, then maybe we have a greater responsibility?
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papamoi
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October 13, 2013, 11:12:40 AM |
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hi guys
anyone having japanese lawyer in his book adress?
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tvbcof
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October 13, 2013, 04:09:39 PM |
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If, for reasons which remain mysterious to me, there is a comfortable and stable gap between Mt. Gox and others, and if one has a relationship with Mt. Gox which allows the kind of turn-around needed to succeed at arbitrage, then it makes the most sense to try to just keep the happy state of affairs chugging along. A 'stampede' at Mt. Gox would probably spell it's flame-out and thus the end to the milking the arbitrage. There is always the possibility that Mt. Gox itself, or someone closely associated with it who can get USD out, is exploiting the arbitrage opportunity. Ha, ya, they could probably resolve any solvency problems they may or may not have had in short order by doing that. They mystery to me is who is putting fiat in given that it is a relatively shitty place to buy if price is what one cares about? The most rational explanation is that whoever is putting fiat in has priorities which include more than simple price because it doesn't seem that Mt. Gox has the overwhelming liquidity advantage that has characterized their operation up until recently. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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Frizz23
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October 13, 2013, 04:17:10 PM |
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They mystery to me is who is putting fiat in given that it is a relatively shitty place to buy if price is what one cares about?
That's the mother of all questions! And I don't think it's many people that put fiat in. Hence the long withdrawal delays. Why pay 144USD at MtGox for a Bitcoin when I can get it for 128USD at Bitstamp? |
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sturle
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October 13, 2013, 04:33:07 PM |
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They mystery to me is who is putting fiat in given that it is a relatively shitty place to buy if price is what one cares about?
That's the mother of all questions! And I don't think it's many people that put fiat in. Hence the long withdrawal delays. You fail in two ways. 1: The fiat is already there. They don't need more fiat in to process withdrawals. Which is also proven by 2: Domestic JPY withdrawals work fine and EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has. I.e. slow but predictable due to a daily limit. |
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills. |
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tvbcof
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October 13, 2013, 04:51:57 PM |
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They mystery to me is who is putting fiat in given that it is a relatively shitty place to buy if price is what one cares about?
That's the mother of all questions! And I don't think it's many people that put fiat in. Hence the long withdrawal delays. You fail in two ways. 1: The fiat is already there. They don't need more fiat in to process withdrawals. Which is also proven by 2: Domestic JPY withdrawals work fine and EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has. I.e. slow but predictable due to a daily limit. If that is true in a major way then Mt. Gox is eating it's own tail and one can expect to see a drastic shift in their situation at some point. And it would probably occur rather rapidly at the end...like when water disappears from a large flat heated surface. I'd also point out that the fact that JPY and EUR via SEPA still work is NOT great evidence of the lack of a liquidity problem. If one existed then it would be logical to address it by failing to perform on less than 100% but greater than 0% of the withdraw methods. That said, regulatory hassles associated with FATCA and the legal issues that Mt. Gox has in the US are perfectly sufficient as a possible explanation of the problems I am experiencing (2 months with no joy on my intl USD wire) and liquidity solvency issues on the part of Mt. Gox are entirely optional. edit: fix |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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gizmoh
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October 13, 2013, 04:52:01 PM |
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They mystery to me is who is putting fiat in given that it is a relatively shitty place to buy if price is what one cares about?
That's the mother of all questions! And I don't think it's many people that put fiat in. Hence the long withdrawal delays. Why pay 144USD at MtGox for a Bitcoin when I can get it for 128USD at Bitstamp? The Fiat were always there (orderbook once showed > $24m in bids) I doubt Fresh money is pouring in when SAME bitcoin can be bought cheaper. |
How Ripple Rips you: "The founders of Ripple Labs created 100 billion XRP at Ripple's inception. No more can be created according to the rules of the Ripple protocol. Of the 100 billion created, 20 billion XRP were retained by the creators, seeders, venture capital companies and other founders. The remaining 80 billion were given to Ripple Labs. Ripple Labs intends to distribute and sell 55 of that 80 billion XRP to users and strategic partners. Ripple Labs also had a giveaway of under 200 million XRP (0.002% of all XRP) via World Community Grid that was later discontinued.[29] Ripple Labs will retain the remaining 25 billion"
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Lohoris
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October 13, 2013, 07:47:33 PM |
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EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has
Uh? A few months ago I got the message "SEPA withdrawals are delayed by at least two weeks", and that's when I stopped using Gox. I've no idea if they are working now, but they definitely haven't been "always working". |
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Quantumboredom
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October 13, 2013, 08:24:35 PM |
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EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has
Uh? A few months ago I got the message "SEPA withdrawals are delayed by at least two weeks", and that's when I stopped using Gox. I've no idea if they are working now, but they definitely haven't been "always working". I've been waiting since 2013-09-18 (so well over 3 weeks) for a < 1000 EUR SEPA withdrawal, so there is at least some trouble there as well. |
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lubosspe
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October 13, 2013, 08:28:17 PM |
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im waiting for my withdrawal in USD about 5 weeks now  |
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Lohoris
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October 13, 2013, 08:48:42 PM |
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Question: why didn't you convert to BTC and use Bitstamp instead?
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tvbcof
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October 13, 2013, 09:02:39 PM |
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Question: why didn't you convert to BTC and use Bitstamp instead?
For me, I didn't want to give my identity docs to them. They don't have the history that Karpeles does, and as far as I am concerned the guy has proven pretty reliable...by Bitcoin standards at least. I figured it was just a matter of time before Bitstamp was squeezed, so forming a relationship with them would be exposing myself to that much more risk. And indeed, if some of their customers are to be believed, they went as far as to block BTC transfers out absent identity documents. I thought I heard that Mt. Gox did this (hold customer's BTC hostage) a long time ago, but that appears to have been wrong or that the policy had changed. Just before sending Mt. Gox my DOX I withdrew half of my BTC to sell by another method and had no trouble doing so. That happened several months ago. Parenthetically, the non-Mt. Gox sale was complete within a week while an equal sale (+ wire and exchange fees) is still stuck somewhere between Mt. Gox and my bank account. Where, exactly, is unknown...it seems to be not the kind of information that Mt. Gox feels like divulging to their customers. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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mp420
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October 13, 2013, 09:32:28 PM |
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I thought I heard that Mt. Gox did this (hold customer's BTC hostage) a long time ago, but that appears to have been wrong or that the policy had changed.
From what I have gathered, it looks like they do this occasionally, if they suspect an account has been hacked into / some other foul play. |
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sturle
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October 13, 2013, 09:47:48 PM |
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EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has
Uh? A few months ago I got the message "SEPA withdrawals are delayed by at least two weeks", and that's when I stopped using Gox. I've no idea if they are working now, but they definitely haven't been "always working". Why didn't you quote my next sentence as well where I address this issue? I.e. slow but predictable due to a daily limit.
Two weeks is the lowest delay for SEPA transfers > 1000 EUR in more than a year. The delay is back to five weeks now, which is the same as in May. The delay is quite predictable based on EUR volume at MtGox, and the cause for SEPA delay is the same as it has always been. |
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills. |
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tvbcof
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October 13, 2013, 09:49:06 PM |
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I thought I heard that Mt. Gox did this (hold customer's BTC hostage) a long time ago, but that appears to have been wrong or that the policy had changed.
From what I have gathered, it looks like they do this occasionally, if they suspect an account has been hacked into / some other foul play. Makes sense. This is the kind of policy thing that should be front and center in a FAQ. When it is not, it seems like one pretty much has to assume the worst. I don't like to rely on 'hope' when it comes to financial matters. One of the main failings of Bitcoin, in my opinion, is that doing so is usually non-optional if on wishes to play at all. A classic example was when I requested a wire from Mt. Gox. At least I was under no false illusion that I would get it in a timely manner (if at all.) Not because of any information that Mt. Gox saw fit to provided but mostly because of reports on this forum. |
sig spam anywhere and self-moderated threads on the pol&soc board are for losers.
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Lohoris
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October 13, 2013, 09:50:49 PM |
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EUR withdrawals via SEPA works as it always has
Uh? A few months ago I got the message "SEPA withdrawals are delayed by at least two weeks", and that's when I stopped using Gox. I've no idea if they are working now, but they definitely haven't been "always working". Why didn't you quote my next sentence as well where I address this issue? I.e. slow but predictable due to a daily limit.
Two weeks is the lowest delay for SEPA transfers > 1000 EUR in more than a year. The delay is back to five weeks now, which is the same as in May. The delay is quite predictable based on EUR volume at MtGox, and the cause for SEPA delay is the same as it has always been. I didn't quote it because I somehow managed to miss it, I apoligise. That being said, if I really wanted to be anal, I could object that they haven't "always" been so slow anyway. I.e. before all these problems, they worked fine as they were supposed to. But again, I apologise for the misquote. |
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bernard75
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October 14, 2013, 01:06:17 AM
Last edit: October 14, 2013, 02:14:05 AM by bernard75 |
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The delay is quite predictable based on EUR volume at MtGox, and the cause for SEPA delay is the same as it has always been.
So you are finally accepting that Gox simply doesnt have the cash to pay out everybody. And please no more misleading infos about the "daily limit":  This is not even a business account, but one can withdraw 1kkk PLN or 23kk+ EUR a day from WBK by a lousy SMS confirmation. Hypothetically they could pay out all BTC that exist in under 50 days by SEPA. |
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