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Author Topic: ckpool.org CLOSED  (Read 159559 times)
-ck
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October 11, 2017, 11:05:19 PM
 #461

What is the number that follows the addresses that are in the postponed section of the pool work?  is that an accumulation of user/address HERP?
Yes it's HERP.

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October 12, 2017, 08:21:47 PM
 #462

How long, if ever, until old/disconnected workers drop off our individual status pages?

-Fred

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October 12, 2017, 08:46:01 PM
 #463

Right on. So meaning is it luck that push me from postpone to payouts  or all of the contributed hashrate previously will accumulate until I am push to payouts?
Mostly hashrate and a small contribution by luck.

Ok, so I seem to be missing something. I have read the explanation on the first page of this thread, and have a rough idea how the calculation works. However I can't seem to answer the following question:

What is the actual formula to approximate when does one get into the 150-member coinbase list, considering the current state of the queue? Let's say I get my hands on an 13TH S9 today, and start mining. At current difficulty/reward I am "gaining" about 0.02 BTC / week. How long should my miner remain plugged to guarantee an actual payout whenever the next block is found?

The reason I ask this is because even the lowest entry in the pool ( at the time of writing it is "18XcjTLs1rkwhgYjncUaKmoYwKpXuvGV17": 0.00014845 ) has a luck of 1.0 ( http://ckpool.org/users/18XcjTLs1rkwhgYjncUaKmoYwKpXuvGV17 ). And that's a payout 135 times(!) smaller than what a weekly "statistical-payout" would be for a 13TH miner.

Thanks in advance for your time explaining this
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October 12, 2017, 08:55:09 PM
 #464

Right on. So meaning is it luck that push me from postpone to payouts  or all of the contributed hashrate previously will accumulate until I am push to payouts?
Mostly hashrate and a small contribution by luck.

Ok, so I seem to be missing something. I have read the explanation on the first page of this thread, and have a rough idea how the calculation works. However I can't seem to answer the following question:

What is the actual formula to approximate when does one get into the 150-member coinbase list, considering the current state of the queue? Let's say I get my hands on an 13TH S9 today, and start mining. At current difficulty/reward I am "gaining" about 0.02 BTC / week. How long should my miner remain plugged to guarantee an actual payout whenever the next block is found?

The reason I ask this is because even the lowest entry in the pool ( at the time of writing it is "18XcjTLs1rkwhgYjncUaKmoYwKpXuvGV17": 0.00014845 ) has a luck of 1.0 ( http://ckpool.org/users/18XcjTLs1rkwhgYjncUaKmoYwKpXuvGV17 ). And that's a payout 135 times(!) smaller than what a weekly "statistical-payout" would be for a 13TH miner.

Thanks in advance for your time explaining this
It's spread out over the last 5 x diff shares (or herp specifically which is approximately equal to the shares over a long time.) The bigger the pool is the faster that time will clock up but for the moment that is a very long time. However unlike traditional PPLNS it ramps up more quickly since it's score based. Additionally this pool has never yet mined 5 x diff shares so it's still rising so it will ramp up faster again meaning it hasn't currently met equilibrium and the true answer is constantly changing at the moment. On the other hand, guaranteeing a payout you just need to be above the threshold which is really quite easy. Anyone in the top 100 hashers will always get into the payout queue once they've mined enough shares (and enough keeps changing.)

If you look at http://ckpool.org/pool/ you'll see the current "lns" - Last N Shares is 2241427919578 and the HERP is about the same so it's your proportion of this amount specifically.

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October 12, 2017, 08:58:32 PM
 #465

It makes my brain hurt even thinking about the formula to answer the question as asked  Tongue

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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October 12, 2017, 09:01:14 PM
 #466

...
Anyone in the top 100 hashers will always get into the payout queue once they've mined enough shares (and enough keeps changing.)

If you look at http://ckpool.org/pool/ you'll see the current "lns" - Last N Shares is 2241427919578 and the HERP is about the same so it's your proportion of this amount specifically.

To help me visualize this better: could you answer my original question ( how long should one mine at 13TH to get into the top 100 ) assuming (impossibly) that both difficulty and the amount of pool participants stays the same from here on out
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October 12, 2017, 09:08:52 PM
 #467

... how long should one mine at 13TH to get into the top 100...
About this long:

|...|


Edit: on a serious note....
You asking about some deep math, given that we're 67% of expected shares into the current block out of a total expected 4 or 5 blocks. That kind of math is going to be difficult to find someone willing to do it for you (since your calc has the same + - * and / as ours)

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
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October 12, 2017, 09:09:14 PM
 #468

It makes my brain hurt even thinking about the formula to answer the question as asked  Tongue

A truer statement has never been said...

LOL

-Fred

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October 12, 2017, 09:25:45 PM
 #469

... how long should one mine at 13TH to get into the top 100...
... on a serious note....
You asking about some deep math, given that we're 67% of expected shares into the current block out of a total expected 4 or 5 blocks. That kind of math is going to be difficult to find someone willing to do it for you (since your calc has the same + - * and / as ours)

I am not asking for a guarantee, nor for some deep math. I am a "facilitator" for someone not too computer savvy who wants to invest in this thing, and is specifically interested in this pool because of the direct-coinbase transaction ( no wallet bullshit, no coloured coins ).

They tasked me to research whether the *outcome* of the math of this pool is legit ( neither of us doubts that the math itself is legit, we've worked with -ck before and trust him ). I've looked through the 27 pages of comments on this thread, and haven't found even a back-of-the-napkin example calculation of what is a rather legitimate question to ask before investig several grand in equipment.

So while I appreciate the sarcasm, I still think that the question has merit, and could use with an *approximate* answer, in case things are really as complicated as they seem.

Thanks in advance!
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October 12, 2017, 09:26:25 PM
 #470

...
Anyone in the top 100 hashers will always get into the payout queue once they've mined enough shares (and enough keeps changing.)

If you look at http://ckpool.org/pool/ you'll see the current "lns" - Last N Shares is 2241427919578 and the HERP is about the same so it's your proportion of this amount specifically.

To help me visualize this better: could you answer my original question ( how long should one mine at 13TH to get into the top 100 ) assuming (impossibly) that both difficulty and the amount of pool participants stays the same from here on out
As I said it's constantly changing at the moment with the pool N shares still rising so it will change continuously till we reach steady state even if everything else stays the same. This isn't straight forward but you asked so I'll try to simplify it as much as possible.

13 TH is about 180,000 diff 1 shares per minute which is about 260 million shares per day. The current N shares is 2.2 trillion shares. If you look at the current pool work, the top miner is actually about 3,000 times bigger than the 100th miner so you need only 1/3000th of the 2.2 trillion shares. That's about 750 million. So with 1 S9 you should get into the top 100 payouts in about 3 days - but then the payout will keep rising too. This would be very different if every miner was the same size. I did this over morning coffee so I may be out but that sounds about right.

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October 12, 2017, 09:42:41 PM
 #471

... This isn't straight forward but you asked so I'll try to simplify it as much as possible.

13 TH is about 180,000 diff 1 shares per minute which is about 260 million shares per day. The current N shares is 2.2 trillion shares. If you look at the current pool work, the top miner is actually about 3,000 times bigger than the 100th miner so you need only 1/3000th of the 2.2 trillion shares. That's about 750 million. So with 1 S9 you should get into the payouts in about 3 days - but then the payout will keep rising too. This would be very different if every miner was the same size. I did this over morning coffee so I may be out but that sounds about right.

This is EXACTLY the kind of answer I was looking for, thank you very very much!
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October 13, 2017, 12:00:47 AM
 #472

... This isn't straight forward but you asked so I'll try to simplify it as much as possible.

13 TH is about 180,000 diff 1 shares per minute which is about 260 million shares per day. The current N shares is 2.2 trillion shares. If you look at the current pool work, the top miner is actually about 3,000 times bigger than the 100th miner so you need only 1/3000th of the 2.2 trillion shares. That's about 750 million. So with 1 S9 you should get into the payouts in about 3 days - but then the payout will keep rising too. This would be very different if every miner was the same size. I did this over morning coffee so I may be out but that sounds about right.

This is EXACTLY the kind of answer I was looking for, thank you very very much!
I just came online with an s9 a few days ago and it did not even take 48 hours to get into the payout pool at roughly that hash rate.
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October 13, 2017, 12:03:01 AM
 #473

... This isn't straight forward but you asked so I'll try to simplify it as much as possible.

13 TH is about 180,000 diff 1 shares per minute which is about 260 million shares per day. The current N shares is 2.2 trillion shares. If you look at the current pool work, the top miner is actually about 3,000 times bigger than the 100th miner so you need only 1/3000th of the 2.2 trillion shares. That's about 750 million. So with 1 S9 you should get into the payouts in about 3 days - but then the payout will keep rising too. This would be very different if every miner was the same size. I did this over morning coffee so I may be out but that sounds about right.

This is EXACTLY the kind of answer I was looking for, thank you very very much!
I just came online with an s9 a few days ago and it did not even take 48 hours to get into the payout pool at roughly that hash rate.
Javede
Payout pool yes, but he was asking about top 100 specifically.

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October 16, 2017, 04:17:00 AM
 #474

im in with 30TH
lets get this block

230TH Mining For Kano!!!
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October 17, 2017, 05:45:03 PM
 #475

Just wanted to pop in and say I built my first little attempt at a rig last night (3 Gekko 2-pacs and a 12 year old laptop) and I will contribute my de minimis hash here.  I've read every post in this thread and I like the philosophy behind this pool.  I'm not  helping much, I know, but I'm not going anywhere else.
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October 17, 2017, 06:13:56 PM
 #476

Welcome to the revolution!

-Fred

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October 17, 2017, 07:57:09 PM
Last edit: October 17, 2017, 08:07:15 PM by Mathen
 #477

Thanks.  I'll probably ask a bunch of dumb questions.  I'm an infrastructure guy so though more technology savvy than your average soccer mom,  I'm out of my depth here.

Dumb question #1-- If I stop my miner to make tweaks (I haven't seen anything anywhere that would indicate I could tweak anything in real time?) do I just start it back with the exact same command?  E.g., ./cgminer -o stratum+tcp://pool.ckpool.org:3333 -u blahblahblahblahblahblah.0 -p x --suggest-diff 32  and it will pick up where I left off (minus some herp degradation due to missed hashes)?   It's not going to reset me effectively to zero, correct?   Same basic question if I were to add more ASICs?  I stop it, add a couple ASICs, and re-start there isn't anything special that needs to be done is there?

Second dumb question-- If I bring another miner online is it just append .1 instead of .0 to my wallet address?
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October 17, 2017, 08:10:08 PM
 #478

Yes, yes, no, and yes.  Mine on!  Cool

I don't believe in superstition because it's bad luck: 13thF1oor6CAwyzyxXPNnRvu3nhhYeqZdc
These aren't the Droids you're looking for: S5 & S7 (Sold), R4B2, R4B4 (RIP), 2x S9 obsolete, 2xS15-28, S17-56, S17-70
Pushing a whopping 1/5 PH!  Oh The SPEED!!!
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October 17, 2017, 08:11:49 PM
 #479

Welcome aboard to the new miners. All your hashes are welcome and help Smiley

Thanks.  I'll probably ask a bunch of dumb questions.  I'm an infrastructure guy so though more technology savvy than your average soccer mom,  I'm out of my depth here.

Dumb question #1-- If I stop my miner to make tweaks (I haven't seen anything anywhere that would indicate I could tweak anything in real time?) do I just start it back with the exact same command?  E.g., ./cgminer -o stratum+tcp://pool.ckpool.org:3333 -u blahblahblahblahblahblah.0 -p x --suggest-diff 32  and it will pick up where I left off (minus some herp degradation due to missed hashes)?   It's not going to reset me effectively to zero, correct?   Same basic question if I were to add more ASICs?  I stop it, add a couple ASICs, and re-start there isn't anything special that needs to be done is there?

Second dumb question-- If I bring another miner online is it just append .1 instead of .0 to my wallet address?
There is no such thing as "progress" in mining, it's just accumulated credit so if you stop working for a while, you're just not adding credit to your existing credit while your miner is off. You can pause, stop restart at any time but obviously you only accumulate credit while your miner is working.

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October 17, 2017, 08:20:33 PM
 #480


[/quote]
There is no such thing as "progress" in mining, it's just accumulated credit so if you stop working for a while, you're just not adding credit to your existing credit while your miner is off. You can pause, stop restart at any time but obviously you only accumulate credit while your miner is working.
[/quote]

Very salient point.  I appreciate precision in language, so I'll reorient my perspective on that.  Thanks
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