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Author Topic: ckpool.org CLOSED  (Read 159858 times)
ryanpietro
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May 11, 2018, 02:29:50 AM
 #1341

i definitely dont quite understand it. i have had about 740th here for a little over a week. my derp got up to .20 in less than a week. and it has pretty much stayed right around there. i recently upped my power to 950th and for the last 3days my derp has stayed right around .22  normally i was getting .06 per day. so 10days wouldve put me at about .60 instead im only at .22 (and i recently was paid .20 when we hit a block)  but even with that im at 33% less than what i would normally make within this time frame.

i messaged CK awhile ago asking about the payment setup of this pool and i didnt quite understand it so i stayed away. then i seen them find 2x blocks in 1day and looking at everybody's payouts i seen that they all made great money in comparison to their hashrates. i realized if i would've been mining there for awhile previously i wouldve made nearly double in that 1day than what i wouldve made mining at slushpool for a month.

all i know is that there are a lot of people in this pool that are alot smarter than i am and they all rave about the pool....  wetsuit is here with his 2ph, halong mining is here with their 20ph and among a ton of other smart people....  if they are all pointing their rigs here then OBVIOUSLY there is some great about this pool.

im not quite smart enough to understand the payout yet but im putting my faith in these others kind words. id rather be here now and get in early than regret it later (like i already did when they found the two blocks)
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philipma1957
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May 11, 2018, 02:54:08 AM
Last edit: May 11, 2018, 03:04:46 AM by philipma1957
 #1342

It is not hard to explain on a YouTube video with visual props.

It is harder to explain writing on a post format.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 11, 2018, 03:36:15 AM
 #1343

It is not hard to explain on a YouTube video with visual props.

It is harder to explain writing on a post format.


I think he is basically asking what is the current ramp up time?
ryanpietro
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May 11, 2018, 03:43:14 AM
 #1344

It is not hard to explain on a YouTube video with visual props.

It is harder to explain writing on a post format.

there wouldnt happen to be a youtube video explaining it by chance huh? lol

im not even so concerned with understanding it anymore. im just letting my 1ph of power roll in good faith  Grin
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May 11, 2018, 03:44:41 AM
Merited by puntpasskick (1)
 #1345

Here is a simple explainer on how HERP and DERP works.

HERP is ckpool.org's equivalent of conventional PPLNS's "last N shares." HERP exists on two levels: at the pool level and at the individual level.

At the pool level, HERP is the pool's total tally of miners' shares at any given point in time. All shares are weighted by their respective difficulty values. In other words, a share with a higher difficulty value occupies a greater proportion of the pool's tally of shares compared to a share with a lower difficulty value. In contrast, conventional PPLNS does not take into account the difficulty value of each share.

At the individual level, HERP is your own tally of difficulty-weighted shares within the pool's total tally.

The N value used by ckpool.org is 5 x (the current Bitcoin network difficulty value). For example, the Bitcoin network's difficulty value currently stands at 4,143,878,474,754.19 — as of block 522147. Therefore, ckpool.org will keep a rolling tally of up to 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares. When the pool's tally of difficulty-weighted shares reaches that limit, new shares will constantly replace the oldest shares to keep the total tally at 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares.

DERP is the proportion of your individual-level HERP compared to the pool-level HERP, and this is what determines your actual payout amount. Your DERP value may be found by dividing your individual-level HERP by the pool-level HERP.

In other words, your DERP is determined by how many of those 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares belong to you. The greater the proportion of individual-level HERP you have out of the pool-level HERP, the greater your payout amount will be. For example, if at this point in time, you have accumulated your own individual-level HERP of 21,000,000,000, then your DERP would be 21,000,000,000 / 20,719,392,373,770.95 = 0.00101354.

You are paid only at the exact moment the pool finds a block, with your payout amount being your DERP at that particular moment in time.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding HERP and DERP.
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May 11, 2018, 12:07:27 PM
 #1346

It is not hard to explain on a YouTube video with visual props.

It is harder to explain writing on a post format.


I think he is basically asking what is the current ramp up time?

about 50 days

ramp up  time is 5x  a 100% block  a 100% block is about 4,200,000,000,000 shares

our pool does that in about 10 days

so  if the first 10 days of mining you are ramping up from 0 to 20%
the 10 to 20 day time period you are ramping up from 20 to 40%  of a full share
the 20 to 30 day time period you are ramping up from 40 to 60% of a full share
the 30 to 40 day time period you are ramping up from 60 to 80% of a full share
the 40 to 50 day time period you are ramping up from 80 to 100% of a full share.

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
ComputerGenie
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May 11, 2018, 01:45:01 PM
 #1347

At the time of this posting:
Code:
Current Difficulty Needed: 4,143,878,474,754

     Pool 5 min: 12.9P

     Estimated time between blocks: 15 days, 23 hours, 14 min, 57 sec

     Estimated time for new miner to hit full 5N: 79 days, 20 hours, 14 min, 46 sec

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 11, 2018, 04:29:47 PM
 #1348

At the time of this posting:
Code:
Current Difficulty Needed: 4,143,878,474,754

     Pool 5 min: 12.9P

     Estimated time between blocks: 15 days, 23 hours, 14 min, 57 sec

     Estimated time for new miner to hit full 5N: 79 days, 20 hours, 14 min, 46 sec

My apologies if this is a elementary question.
Doesn't the formula above vary according to the hashing power of the miner?
Are all miners created equal is another way to ask?
What is the baseline processing / hashing the formula is based off of?
Thank you in advance.
ComputerGenie
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May 11, 2018, 05:05:12 PM
 #1349

...
My apologies if this is a elementary question.
Doesn't the formula above vary according to the hashing power of the miner?
Are all miners created equal is another way to ask?
What is the baseline processing / hashing the formula is based off of?
Thank you in advance.
As the page stands, it assumes the "new miner" is included in the "current" rate of the pool.
For the equation, if I remember correctly (it pulls the calc from a 3rd party site), it's a standard "Network Difficulty * 2^32 / hashrate = time in seconds to find a block"

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
ruinous
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May 11, 2018, 06:04:52 PM
 #1350

Not to add to others confusion I hope .. .  but didn't the difficulty go up recently? And this would increase ramp up time for the pool? Along with the increase in pool hash the last few weeks?

I think I moved here during down time of a larger miner, so ramp up at first was about 5 days when I used an old s7 to test the waters. Then i moved everything over a little later taking close to 10 days to ramp up.

In all I spent most of April without reward since we went blockless, so be prepared as you are joining a dedicated pool not for hoppers or luck seekers.

I suppose if you're still a little stuck on score like from slush or PPS for those consistent payouts figure a good split for your hash or just take the plunge. Obviously the sooner the better as ramp up will only increase. Unless the larger farms here take down time. I'm looking at a scheduling cleaning but my hash wont affect the pool much or at all in scope.

Also use a static address you don't plan to change and keep it.   
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May 11, 2018, 06:06:17 PM
 #1351

In house? I hope your neighbors are far away. I just mine a mix of four units at the home otherwise I feel like there'd be a riot with pitch forks. Mostly from the wife. ..

No I have a small warehouse with a single bay mechanic shop type setup. I have a custom built huge rack that is like 8ft tall x 25ft wide and it holds over 100x rigs. I have the entire backside of the rack lined with insulation and the hot side of the  rigs pops through the insulation. The bay door is permanently raised like 4ft with a big custom metal vent along the bottom of the bay door that spans the entire width across. with 4x 42” fans up against the vent / grate to spit all of the hot air out into the atmosphere. My only neighbors are a bunch of other mechanic shops. It’s pretty damn noisy and a lot of hot air is flying out of the vent / grate. So far no complaints tho lol. Fingers crossed!!

It’s kind of like a wind tunnel type setup. It’s kind of unique I think...?

This sounds pretty sweet, You have pictures of the exhaust set up floating around?
ryanpietro
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May 11, 2018, 09:00:11 PM
 #1352

In house? I hope your neighbors are far away. I just mine a mix of four units at the home otherwise I feel like there'd be a riot with pitch forks. Mostly from the wife. ..

No I have a small warehouse with a single bay mechanic shop type setup. I have a custom built huge rack that is like 8ft tall x 25ft wide and it holds over 100x rigs. I have the entire backside of the rack lined with insulation and the hot side of the  rigs pops through the insulation. The bay door is permanently raised like 4ft with a big custom metal vent along the bottom of the bay door that spans the entire width across. with 4x 42” fans up against the vent / grate to spit all of the hot air out into the atmosphere. My only neighbors are a bunch of other mechanic shops. It’s pretty damn noisy and a lot of hot air is flying out of the vent / grate. So far no complaints tho lol. Fingers crossed!!

It’s kind of like a wind tunnel type setup. It’s kind of unique I think...?

This sounds pretty sweet, You have pictures of the exhaust set up floating around?

i have some pictures from when i was building it but i will take some new pics / videos and post  a link here in the next few days. that way you can see it currently all setup and running. looks much more impressive now vs when it was just starting to be built.
ryanpietro
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May 11, 2018, 09:11:53 PM
 #1353

Here is a simple explainer on how HERP and DERP works.

HERP is ckpool.org's equivalent of conventional PPLNS's "last N shares." HERP exists on two levels: at the pool level and at the individual level.

At the pool level, HERP is the pool's total tally of miners' shares at any given point in time. All shares are weighted by their respective difficulty values. In other words, a share with a higher difficulty value occupies a greater proportion of the pool's tally of shares compared to a share with a lower difficulty value. In contrast, conventional PPLNS does not take into account the difficulty value of each share.

At the individual level, HERP is your own tally of difficulty-weighted shares within the pool's total tally.

The N value used by ckpool.org is 5 x (the current Bitcoin network difficulty value). For example, the Bitcoin network's difficulty value currently stands at 4,143,878,474,754.19 — as of block 522147. Therefore, ckpool.org will keep a rolling tally of up to 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares. When the pool's tally of difficulty-weighted shares reaches that limit, new shares will constantly replace the oldest shares to keep the total tally at 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares.

DERP is the proportion of your individual-level HERP compared to the pool-level HERP, and this is what determines your actual payout amount. Your DERP value may be found by dividing your individual-level HERP by the pool-level HERP.

In other words, your DERP is determined by how many of those 20,719,392,373,770.95 difficulty-weighted shares belong to you. The greater the proportion of individual-level HERP you have out of the pool-level HERP, the greater your payout amount will be. For example, if at this point in time, you have accumulated your own individual-level HERP of 21,000,000,000, then your DERP would be 21,000,000,000 / 20,719,392,373,770.95 = 0.00101354.

You are paid only at the exact moment the pool finds a block, with your payout amount being your DERP at that particular moment in time.

I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion regarding HERP and DERP.

that helps tremendously thank you so much for the detailed post!!

now i just need to understand how the different difficulty shares work and provide more or less payouts... i can do some google searching on that though to understand it better.

also just to confirm that i / everybody else understands this. our payout is reflected from our herp. our herp is calculated from the last 5x blocks. so if i was ming here and i got

10herp block #1
10herp block #2
10herp block #3
10herp block #4
10herp block #5

my total current herp would be 50herp correct?

now say i buy more rigs and on block #6 i get

30herp block #6

my total herp currently would be 40herp from the last 4x blocks plus 30herp from the most recent 5th block which would put me at 70herp from the most recent 5x blocks correct?

thank you so much for everybody being helpful in explaining this to all of us. 
ComputerGenie
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May 11, 2018, 10:21:39 PM
 #1354

It's not nearly as difficult to figure out as people are trying to make it out by over-thinking it and confusing themselves and each other. Until we hit a pool rate that equals 5+ blocks every 2 weeks, it will not be an accurate measure trying to say "you get x extra if you add y hash during the next block". This is because we are going backwards a non-exact amount of blocks in order to hit 5N when we are not getting 5+ block in a specific N.

  • If we hit a block right now (or anytime during the current network difficulty) you get paid for your weighted portion of the last 20,719,392,373,770 shares submitted to the pool.
  • If you add hash, your weight goes up (because you're increasing your personal percentage of submitted shares).
  • If you hash less (or not at all), your weight goes down (because others still submit shares).


If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 11, 2018, 10:43:25 PM
 #1355

Got it. Thanks!
ComputerGenie
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May 12, 2018, 07:01:37 PM
 #1356

The http://www.yourcomputergenie.com/?address=1GeniexG7MnLr9WH48jG1cPLqgGbqUsaFM page I made now differentiates between those in the payout and those postponed.
It is, and probably will stay, a little bit slow because it uses 4 API calls to 3 different sites in order for diff and pricing info to be as current as possible.

If you have to ask "why?", you wouldn`t understand my answer.
Always be on the look out, because you never know when you'll be stalked by hit-men that eat nothing but cream cheese....
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May 12, 2018, 10:37:18 PM
 #1357

Thanks for the work, should just be able to sub your address g2g.

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philipma1957
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May 12, 2018, 10:39:56 PM
 #1358

The page I made now differentiates between those in the payout and those postponed.
It is, and probably will stay, a little bit slow because it uses 4 API calls to 3 different sites in order for diff and pricing info to be as current as possible.


http://www.yourcomputergenie.com/?address=16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr


see me below

Current Block Reward: 12.51412348       

Current Difficulty Needed: 4,143,878,474,754

     Pool 5 min: 10.3P

     Estimated time between blocks: 19 days, 23 hours, 59 min, 30 sec

     Estimated time for new miner to hit full 5N: 99 days, 23 hours, 57 min, 31 sec


     Pool's current block diff (percent submitted of 1 block expected): 45.2%

     Time left to block (assuming perfect world 100%): 9 days, 0 hours, 57 min, 22 sec


16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr

My 5 min: 77.4T

If we hit a block right now, I'd get:

     0.270558% of the current payout

     0.03385799 BTC

     $286.41 (at $8459.12 BTC/USD)

I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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May 15, 2018, 01:17:49 AM
 #1359

The http://www.yourcomputergenie.com/?address=1GeniexG7MnLr9WH48jG1cPLqgGbqUsaFM page I made now differentiates between those in the payout and those postponed.
It is, and probably will stay, a little bit slow because it uses 4 API calls to 3 different sites in order for diff and pricing info to be as current as possible.

Sweet! thanks so much for your efforts. I"m not seeing the differenciation though, the page still looks the same to me but maybe i'm missing it.....
here is my stats from:
http://www.yourcomputergenie.com/?address=1FLhot6HnyaUTQ6a6Ms6gzuswt2kXBtCVZ

Current Block Reward: 12.75027727       

Current Difficulty Needed: 4,143,878,474,754

     Pool 5 min: 16.6P

     Estimated time between blocks: 12 days, 9 hours, 49 min, 34 sec

     Estimated time for new miner to hit full 5N: 62 days, 1 hours, 7 min, 51 sec


     Pool's current block diff (percent submitted of 1 block expected): 61.8%

     Time left to block (assuming perfect world 100%): 4 days, 17 hours, 46 min, 10 sec


1FLhot6HnyaUTQ6a6Ms6gzuswt2kXBtCVZ

My 5 min: 46.7T

If we hit a block right now, I'd get:

     0.085241% of the current payout

     0.01086844 BTC

     $94.56 (at $8700.39 BTC/USD)

Your stats showed a payout of $2400ish with about double my TH. So would it be fair to say once i'm through the full rampup phase when we hit a block my payouts should be about 1/2 of yours?

Thanks so much!

Finally got my 3 dragons and our data centre setup with 4" ducting to a wall that can take 10 asics :-)
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May 15, 2018, 02:42:30 AM
 #1360

Sry -ck I knew there was a risk in posting a wall like that.

(Hopefully they saw and grats on the added hash for our pool)

On topic: love the 3rd party "link". I cant imagine how many questions on ramp up adn reward this will alleviate.

Great community pool. Thank you all.
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